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Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
Dan Finished the First Draft of 'The Bad Road' | Zombie Book Club Ep 158
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Dan finally admits what he's been hiding: while everyone assumed he was still deep in his long-gestating zombie apocalypse novel, he secretly drafted an entirely new novella, The Bad Road, in two weeks flat. The origin story is almost stranger than the book itself; it started as a 3D-rendered, fake Instagram book cover of two bikers outrunning a dust-churning zombie horde down a dead-straight highway, an image so convincing that people kept asking where to buy a book that didn't exist. So Dan wrote it. The result follows brothers Ty and Michael, months into the outbreak and out of fuel, fleeing a city-sized horde across the mirror-flat, flood-prone expanse of Utah's Bonneville Salt Flats along I-80.
Relevant to this episode's topics:
- Bonneville Salt Flats: https://www.visitutah.com/articles/bonneville-salt-flats-planning-guide
- Serial Fiction Success for Indie Authors: https://indieauthormagazine.com/the-intentional-craft-of-successful-serialized-fiction/
- Publishing Novellas: A Niche Format for Aspiring Authors: https://spines.com/self-publishing-a-novella/
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Welcome And Surprise Book News
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a book that I wrote. What? I also have the the wildfire plague. So uh if I cough a lot, that's probably why.
SPEAKER_00The wildfire plague, is that what we're calling it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've I have like some kind of a plague, but also there's wild fires. Um, and it's a combination of those two things.
SPEAKER_00I feel like you're burying the lead. Dan wrote a book, everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's not the book you thought I was writing.
SPEAKER_00It's not the book that Dan's been talking about since 2022. It's true. Or 2023, actually.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And before then. Yeah. Yeah. So there you there you go there you have it. The end. Bye, everyone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we were having breakfast this morning in our favorite place, the Heartland
Choosing The Bad Road Topic
SPEAKER_00Diner. And Dan, I was like, Dan, what do we do today? Maybe we could talk about like a movie we've watched but never reviewed, like Ponty Pool. Uh I for a second there, I was like, oh, maybe Colony, the sequel. I don't know if it's a sequel, but it's maybe the same person as Trangie Business or you could watch that, but discovered that's not out till like the end of August. And then you just looked at me and you're like, I want to talk about the bad road. And I was like, whoa.
SPEAKER_01The bad road.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We're going down the bad road today. So where where should we start with this? Because I I don't wanna I don't wanna lead people to think that I finished the book that I'd been talking about for the last four years.
SPEAKER_00Why don't we start there? Let's start with an update on that book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's still a work in progress. Um, but it was about two, two and a half, three weeks ago, maybe. Um I don't even know how it came up. Leah, you were just like I do. Yeah, you tell me. You tell me. Well, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00It's not the first time I've suggested this.
SPEAKER_01It's not.
SPEAKER_00I was like, Dan, what if you pull an Alice B. Sullivan and write like a prequel or like a short thing just to like get something out there, get something odd, like just you know, release, release the stuff. And I was like, what that's a terrible idea, Leah. Where would I even get an idea? Well, then I was like, I think I think I was on mushrooms actually, and I was like, you know what? The bad road is actually a really great idea, and it the the visual is like the classic zombie apocalypse
Fake Book Covers On Instagram
SPEAKER_00book genre visual that you've you made. Yeah. I was like, we ever thought about just making that a story? It's a great story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So The Bad Road, if if you're if you're on Instagram and you've seen my Instagram, um Dan the Zombie Writer, uh, I I've I made these fake book covers. I made like three or four of them. There's three of them on Instagram. And about a year and a half ago, I was like, I don't want to go to work anymore. What if I got paid to make book covers? Um, but I didn't have any clients. And it's hard to get a client if you don't have work to show them, especially since as a 3D artist, my art is gonna look a lot different from what most people expect you to make. Um and they have to be prepared for that. So I I made I made three three fake book covers. First one was Apaka Chef. He's a chef in the apocalypse. That one was okay. Uh I made Apaka City, which is two people in an apocalyptic city, um, and The Bad Road. The Bad Road, I was like, that's a good name for a book, genuinely. Yeah, and that was the first time that I I didn't just go with like Apaka, whatever, Apaka bikes, apaka dudes. Um and all of these are clearly fake. You look at them, you're like, that's hilarious. You read the blurb on the back cover, and it's like, this is obviously not real. The ty the the author is some author. Yeah, by some author. And I got I got like every time I would post it somewhere, um, various places, like blue sky, uh, threads back when I was doing that. Um, there'd be so many people that are like, like, this book sounds really cool. I can't wait for uh where where can I find it? When does it come out? I'm like, it's not real. Unless you're gonna make your author name some author. I'm like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to make book covers people, and they're like, oh, okay, well, if you you know, if this book was real, I'd buy it. Um uh do you want to tell the people what's what's the description? What's the back cover say for the the bad road?
SPEAKER_00Well, before I talk about the back cover, I'm gonna t describe the the first iteration of the cover, which again was intended to be a sample cover to sell Dan's ability to do 3D art for covers. So obviously, this is the bad road, and it is two dudes on motorcycles on a bad road, and behind them is a horde of zombies that are like kicking up dust, and they're clearly in the mountains. It looks desert-like and very hot. Um, and one of them is holding a compound bow. Crossbow. Crossbow. Close. Hey, I tried.
SPEAKER_01It is tactically a compound bow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um and so it's it's a very classic looking cover, but not uh but also tells a story that I haven't seen as a cover before. The back says, this is Dan's, I love actually this the side, like the um what do they call this? The brick is like the spine. Yeah. Says the bad road s.author. I never noticed that till right now. This is the um the caption for the book. They're brothers, maybe, and they're on the run. After an unfortunate navigational error in Albuquerque, they found themselves on the bad road. This is nothing like that Mad Max movie. Totally different. Who told you it's a gonna pop up the franchise? Steve? Don't ever trust Steve, he's a liar. Uh and then there's a quote um from somebody who read this book that says, I've read several books, and this is one of them. Unquote, educated person. Uh, and then the the bio of the author is some author once joined a motorcycle gang. It was a dark time of their life, and they wish you would get off their back about it.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So if you read that, you'd be like, this isn't a real book, right?
SPEAKER_00I think people like this just tell tells you the power of covers. I think people probably didn't even read the second slide on your carousel. They just saw the picture and was like, yeah, I wanna I wanna see these two guys on their motorcycles escaping a horde of zombies in the desert. Yeah. On the bad road.
SPEAKER_01And instead of listening to them, I'm like, you stupid idiots.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I gotta see. You know what? There's there's a pattern I'd like to uh I'd like to name here. I think it was like 2021, maybe where I was like, Dan, you should do a zombie podcast. Took a year and a half. It was at least a year ago when I was like, Dan, maybe you should write one of these. But I'm glad that you did it. I mostly I'm just putting a feather in my own cap because I'm awesome. Yeah. So um I'm responsible. All the effort and labor and brilliance that Dan put into it doesn't matter because without me, folks, you wouldn't have the bad road. Yeah. Well, you still don't have it.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Because uh it's just in the first draft. I didn't want to talk about it until now. And honestly, it went so fast that I didn't even have time to talk about it.
SPEAKER_00Well, that was we were like, let's not, you know, you've been talking about the other book for a long time. You're like, I'm not gonna do it. I didn't want to confuse people. And I also I presume this would be like a summer project, maybe done in like September.
SPEAKER_01And then what happened, Dan? Uh I I wrote the first draft in two weeks. I think he ate lettuce. Yeah, I ate some of that poison lettuce that you're not supposed to uh buy from the grocery store.
SPEAKER_00Not the virus lettuce, the parasite lettuce.
SPEAKER_01Parasite lettuce. Yeah, I got a parasite, and the parasite did all the hard work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it just it just diarrheaed it out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I got word diarrhea, is what happened. Um but yeah, it just it just kind of flowed. It flowed out of me.
SPEAKER_00Much like if you ate the diarrhea lettuce. Um a friend of mine told me that that happened to them, and afterwards their waist was quote unquote snatched. That made me laugh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um was your waist, is your waist snatched? It is, it is. I lost 50 pounds.
SPEAKER_00That's true. We actually did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This last year I lost 50 pounds. No big deal. Yeah. NBD. And also I don't, I I no longer have uh have uh liver disease. Yeah, you're really on the up and up right now. I'm just dropping all kinds of a book, all kinds of news right now. It's like, yeah, guess what? I'm not dying of liver disease, lost 50 pounds, wrote a book. Yeah. Um yeah, so this is a novella. It's not, it's not like it's not a big, it's not a big boy book. It's not a big long book. It's just a little there's some big boys in it. There is at least one big boy in it. Two. There's also the fridge. The fridge, yeah, the fridge. We're not talking about the fridge right now. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh, but I guess this proves that spoiler, Leah. I've read I got to read it.
SPEAKER_01Leah got to read it. Yeah. Um, and Leah's the only person who's read it. Uh, not even me. I haven't even read it. Really? You just wrote it? Yeah, I just wrote it. And then
The Back Cover Joke Explained
SPEAKER_01yeah. Um, but yeah, of of the things that I can say about it, it's uh it doesn't take place near Albuquerque like like my fake book cover suggested.
Finding The Real Bad Road
SPEAKER_01This is actually somewhere that I've been and I've thought about and I've talked about quite a lot over the years when I'm um in 2019 when I was over the road truck driving, I found myself on this stretch of I-80 between Salt Lake City and wherever the fuck that road goes beyond Salt Lake City, which is a whole lot of nothing until you hit Reno, uh Nevada, which is like four or five hundred miles. Um there's other towns, but I'm I am uh mockingly uh discrediting their importance. Um but if you're from places like Oasis or Winnemucca uh or West B uh Congratulations, you live on the bad road. Yeah, you're mentioned. Your town's finally mentioned somewhere. Unfortunately, it's in a novella by by me.
SPEAKER_00By some author.
SPEAKER_01By some author. Um yeah, so there's a stretch, it's it goes across the Bonneville Salt Flats, which a lot of people have heard of, if you know anything about like top uh land speed records. Um or if you've just heard of the um The Salt Flats? The Pontiac Bonneville, which is a mid-size sedan named after the salt flats for some reason. No idea why. Uh so the stretch of road when I was truck driving is about 60 or 70 miles long, and it is perfectly straight. I mean I-80 goes all the way across the country, but this specific part is about 60 or 70 miles long. It's perfectly straight, no turns, no hills, nothing. No exits. No exits. There's the only thing that there is on this 70 mile stretch is one rest stop.
SPEAKER_00And what's on either side of the road?
SPEAKER_01I'm getting there.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So any time any other time that you go across here, you will just see white salt as far as the eye can see. There's mountains in the distance. Um, but until you get to a certain point, you can't even see them.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01Because the curvature of the earth hides the mountains.
SPEAKER_00Dan, the earth's flat.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Whenever it's called salt flats. Whenever people try to argue uh whether or not the the earth is flat, I'm like, you've never been to the salt flats. You've you've never driven that road and over the course of an hour and a half watched mountains grow out of the ground. That's wild. So the specific time that I was there, um, it was in the springtime, and all of the the the snow in the mountains is melting, and all that melted water comes down into the salt flats and it creates a temporary lake, a salt lake, which actually feeds Salt Lake City. Um and on this very specific day there was no wind. So there were no waves, there were no ripples. It was perfectly smooth, not even not even like not even a vibration. And when you looked out and you looked at like the mountain ranges that were coming up over the the horizon, they would reflect those mountains as if it was a mirror. You could see the clouds in the sky below. Um and it because because it just it was just like a highway that just went across this like sheen, perfectly smooth and reflective body of water with nothing ahead that you could even see. It felt like you were just driving into the ocean. Like, you know, there there was a point where I'm like, when do I get to civilization? Do I have enough fuel to do this? Like, where am I? I'd never been out there before. Like, my first experience was seeing this.
SPEAKER_00So you had no idea. You just was like, all of a sudden you're there. I'm like, well, we're driving across a lake. It's not like you were like, hey, we're on a road trip and I'm gonna go see this landmark.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You just were it was on your road, it was on your like GPS probably, and it just like appeared for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the G the GPS guided me through there because I was on my way to California or Idaho, maybe. I'm not sure where I was going um at the time. Uh you know what it was probably California. I had a friend I you follow that road long enough and you end up going up um Donner's Pass into California through Lake Tahoe, um, places like that. And I went through there during a blizzard. And that is one of the worst places you want to be in a semi-truck during a blizzard.
SPEAKER_00What about on two motorcycles?
SPEAKER_01Even worse.
Brothers On Bikes Versus Zombies
SPEAKER_01So um my uh my characters in this book, they're brothers. Uh they're we come in in kind of like a few months after the apocalypse, so like we don't have to dis rediscover the rules of zombies, we don't have to, you know, go through the outbreak. We're we come in and it just kind of hints at things that have already happened. In fact, I'm I'm worried that some people might be like, D was there a book before this? I think they can't they they reference Tahoe, but they say they're not talking about it. Um but yeah, they're brothers, they're on motorcycles, and they're they're on the stretch of I-80 going through the salt flats. And wouldn't wouldn't the your luck have it that they're out of fuel and they're being followed by a horde of zombies. And not a small horde. Not a small horde. No. Um yeah, like basically a a small city of zombies is following them. Because um, you know, I've I've I've uh I've spent a lot of time figuring out my zombies over the years, because like this is part of the same universe that my big book that I've been writing for many years is in. So my zombies, um you know, if their bodies are intact, like you know, their their heart doesn't stop when they turn into a zombie. Their lungs still work, they still pump blood through their system, and uh for all intents and purposes, they're still alive. But if they die, they keep going. The only difference is if they die, they become slow because Rigamortus sets in. You know, if if you can't move blood through your system, they become slow. So one thing that they ha the only thing that they have on their side right now is that they are in uh the middle of a desert that is very unforgiving and uh you know, in in lieu of there being any fresh corpses that have died within days, uh everything else has perished due to the elements.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So all they have to do is out outwalk these things. Um but you know, when you have si possibly sixty, fifty or sixty miles ahead of you and you're pushing a five hundred pound motorcycle. And what time of year is it? It's uh it's it's hot. Um I'm kind of I'm kind of playing a little bit with reality because I want there to be the water there. But also it's hot as fuck, so you you know it's you know it's summer time sometime. Uh they they say it's some something like six months after the outbreak. Uh so that would put it, you know, June or July, maybe. But yeah, that's uh I don't want to give away too much more. This is I I see it kind of like as a modern uh a modern Western cowboy story.
SPEAKER_00I mean there is a part that I'm wondering if you would let me read. Just a tiny part. Okay. Uh will you even name the two main characters, the brothers' names?
SPEAKER_01Yes, Ty and Michael. Right. And what are they like? Uh so um Michael is uh I didn't actually didn't even mention it in the story yet because you know, much like all of my ideas, I have everything everything mapped out several books down the road. Uh and there's just a lot of details that I don't get to in the first one. Michael uh was living in San Diego. He was uh he was in the Marines, he got out, he was uh he's a mechanic. Just like a regular old mechanic doing oil changes, living in San Diego, because you know that's that's what's familiar to him after being in the Marines. Um Ty uh went a different route and he is in a punk rock band in in the Pacific Northwest.
SPEAKER_00Do you want to give the the name or no?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Darn it. No, that's why because I I would specifically love to read these lyrics that you made up. Um because Ty is yeah, Tunk Ty's in a punk rock band. He plays guitar, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, guitar is Ty is the the front man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he sings.
SPEAKER_01So he plays guitar and he sings.
SPEAKER_00And Dan has written some lyrics that are so good. And what I think I really like, I've read some of the other components of the book, the big book, and it it's really good. Um, but what I love about The Bad Road that ha is that it has a little more of the humor flavor that you bring as a person.
SPEAKER_01I was really happy with that. It just came out naturally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I found myself laughing many times.
SPEAKER_01These siblings, they they fight like cats and dogs, you would say.
SPEAKER_00They do, but they love each other and it's very compelling their relationship. Um but I what I was gonna say is I was going to ask permission to read the lyrics of that one song, the one about Lorena Bobbitt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I guess for context, this this happens at a a slower point in the story, and um and Ty has found a guitar and is uh but it's an acoustic guitar, you know, so like he starts he starts playing it, his songs are gonna sound a little bit different, and uh yeah, he kind of just like he kind of adapts to it and he's like he turns it into more of like a folk song than the uh the angry punk rock version that he played on stage.
Punk Lyrics In The Apocalypse
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm gonna ask your permission to read a a full paragraph intro to it. I'm just acknowledging this is the first draft version, so I'm not sure if it will be exactly like this when it comes out, but this is the shit that made me laugh when I was reading it. Uh so as Dan said, they're having a quiet moment. Ty decides to play guitar, and uh Michael says, What were you playing before on the guitar? It sounded familiar. Ty smirked. It's called Cock Chop. It's an ode to Lorena Bobbitt. It sounded a lot different on an acoustic guitar. Maybe if I ever get back on stage I can do an unplugged version. Ty spun the guitar in his hands and went back to strumming chords and sang the chorus melodically with the guitar instead of the original punk rock style he'd performed for years. Seven inch shorter than he was before. Lorena got her justice, left it on the kitchen floor. That's my made-up melody off the bat. Um yeah, okay. I'm not gonna read oh okay. I'm gonna sc I'm gonna scroll past because there's some things that would be giving stuff away. And then uh tie strum more of the melody. She didn't run, she didn't hide, drove it down the road, took it for a ride, Lorena. Lorena.
SPEAKER_01It's probably closer to the punk rock version.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks everybody for listening to my rendition of um cock chop.
SPEAKER_01I uh I actually have to change the the title of it. Um because why? Because um I there's this uh musician that I listen to a lot named Delilah Bond, and she has a song called Chop Dicks.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like too close, but it's like an ode to them.
SPEAKER_01It is a little bit.
SPEAKER_00And you can you can always you know write a little thank you in the apology.
SPEAKER_01I could call it cock chopper.
SPEAKER_00Cock chopper. I mean, Ty does ride a motorcycle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Cock chopper.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, that was uh I I didn't I kind of forgot about that part to be honest. You forgot the cock chop part?
SPEAKER_00Not really, but like I forgot how it went. Oh, it made me laugh so
Writing Retreat And Fast Drafts
SPEAKER_00hard. So what was happening was while we were in Canada, I had to work during the day. Uh because I'm yeah, I'm still new to my job, and so I'm like earning my PTO, whatever. And Dan was like every time actually, pretty much every time I go to Canada, I'm like, make it a writer retreat. Yeah. But this time you just like one day you're like, I wrote 3,000 words or something absolutely the same. 5,000 in one day.
SPEAKER_01One day.
SPEAKER_00So what would happen is like Dan would write all day. I would work. Work. Then I would do like some socializing with the family. Usually I'd take like a break in the middle of the day. We'd go to the beach or whatever. And by beach, I mean a very large lake. See last episode about our trip with the sweaty episode. I forget what we actually called it. Yeah. Um, a couple episodes ago. Anyways, come back, do some more work, and then before bed, I would read whatever Dan had written that day. And that was definitely one that I really didn't see coming. Was that song? Like I knew that Ty was a a punk rock singer, but yeah. So you're basically a triple threat, Dan, because not only did you write a book that's really great, you wrote music in the book that could become an album. Yeah. And you're making your own cover.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What's it like to be a triple threat artist?
SPEAKER_01I don't know if it I don't know if writing a couple of lines of cock chopper counts as making music.
SPEAKER_00I really I feel like you should give that to what is the name that you like a lot? Delilah Bond? Yeah, I think you should write like a fan letter to Delilah Bond and say, This is coming out in my book. You inspired me. If you feel connected to these lyrics in any way, you are welcome to have them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I don't I mean, I think I think she might be busy, but Well, you know, you also wrote another song.
SPEAKER_00I did. Which was what did what what did she end up calling that one? Bran? Oh, wait. Oh, oh, you mean you mean for Lori? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying maybe you have a hidden like lyricist talent here that hasn't been explored enough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't I don't know if I don't know how many people know, but uh I wrote I wrote the lyrics to Bran, which is uh Lori Calcaterra's um for Brandon Storaki from um Summerween's Lamb Down 2025 episode.
SPEAKER_00You can find it. It's very funny. There's also a video available on the internet of of that Lori made. So Dan wrote the lyrics and then Lori actually recorded it and sang it and then got Brandon to sing some of it unbeknownst to him that he was making his own diss track. It's pretty great.
SPEAKER_01My point is that it's also the reason that there is now a Jude body pillow available on Lori Calcutta's Kickstarter.
SPEAKER_00It's which is live right now, I think. So go go back that if you haven't yet. We got our own body pillow. Yeah. When when when I write music, people make merch. Lorena Bob.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Lorena, Lorena. What kind of merch is gonna come from cock chopper? I can imagine some great art. Yeah, a bloody knife. You just get a bloody knife in the mail.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, I don't want to say the things I'm picturing. Yeah, you could have a sausage on like a cutting board, a seven-inch sausage.
SPEAKER_01It's a sausage subscription. Yeah. You get one sausage a month.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So did you were you surprised that there was a whole story inside of you for this cover that you made?
SPEAKER_01Uh I mean, I don't know. I I I don't really remember. I like I don't I don't feel like it took me too long to come up with the story. I guess just because like the image sells it so much that like I I mean like a lot of it comes from the fake description that I made up when I made the fake cover, like them being brothers. I'm like, that would like at the time I'm like, yeah, that I'd watch that movie. But it's a sibling rivalry in the desert while being followed by zombies. That's what it is on the surface.
SPEAKER_00It's so much more than that. But I won't say anything else because it's too spoilery.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff under the surface.
SPEAKER_00Um, but also it's very simple. I think that's what makes it great, is like it's a simple, clear storyline and moment in time, uh, but there is a lot of emotional weight to it, and there is also a lot you're saying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there's other characters. This other I will not say anything about this character, David, but he reminds me of some Davids I've known. Yeah. That I didn't like very much. And he's he's also very wordy. He tells a lot of stories.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. People who tell wordy stories. Yeah. You gotta watch out for them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um like you, Dan.
SPEAKER_01Like me.
SPEAKER_00Kidding.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah. You're nothing like David. I I finished the first
Second Draft Reality Check
SPEAKER_01draft. Um, actually today I I started I started doing the second draft on it, doing a second pass, you know, uh rounding out the edges, adding some some uh necessary description and deleting unnecessary words. Um I don't know how long that's gonna take me.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're you said you have ten chapters for this novella.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And uh you've edited two. Yeah, but they were easy chapters. It's gonna get harder. You think so? Yeah. I when when I started writing it, it just kind of flowed out, you know, like diarrhea. We thought we discussed this. Um towards the end, it was it was it it flowed less like that. It was still I still feel like it was pretty good for like a first draft. Like definitely. Like while I was writing it, Leah, you were you were like, you could publish this like tomorrow. It wouldn't be great, but you could well that's not what I said.
SPEAKER_00I would say that this is would be I would classify this as a good book. Yeah. You could publish it, people would read it, and put a little shine and polish on it, and it's gonna be spectacular, and like it's worth doing that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And we all know we've talked with many authors that like the last thing you want to do is rush something out the door because you're excited.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I think I think I definitely feel the hesitation to rush things. Like, I didn't even really want to talk about it until I had like the entire story down. Because like, as much as I talk about the book that I've been writing, I've also written a lot about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I I was writing it before we started the podcast. A lot of my hesitation of starting a podcast to hype my book was the fact that I hadn't written enough. Um, I don't like hyping things that I haven't done.
SPEAKER_00And now you have to do it every week as part of your intro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, I there's just like I I don't I don't want to trash talk anyone, but uh I'm not thinking of a specific person. I'm just saying that the like everybody knows somebody who's like who pops up and they tell you all about the things that they intend to do. They're like, I'm gonna do this, I am going to do that. Um and some people follow through with that. They're they're good at achieving the goals they set so that they, you know, if they say that they're going to do something, they they do it. But a lot of times when you just say the things that you intend to do, sometimes it just becomes words and doesn't mean anything. Um and I want I've been guilty of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I want every time that I say something about what I'm working on, I want it I want people to know that I'm serious about it. It's going to be finished. Um and in this case, I'm really happy because I think it'll be finished fairly soon. What does fairly soon mean? Uh at least in the next couple of months. Wow. Because like I've got to go through and do another pass. I'll probably do like four or five passes.
SPEAKER_00Before you hand it to an editor?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, but each pass will get progressively easier, I think. Um mostly it's just me reading and then being like, do I like that part? Let me see if I can change it. It's kind of that's that's kind of my process right now. Um, I'll probably have to do some more stuff. And like it's it's weird because I'm in uncharted territory now. I've never been at this stage of the writing process.
SPEAKER_00Well, for short stories you have. Yeah, I guess so. Um, RIP to those short stories that we don't know where they are, but I remember them in my head from 2010. Oh, those yeah. I didn't I didn't do second passes on those. Well, they were good. It's the same thing. They were good on a first pass, and you could have made some money on a smut website from them.
SPEAKER_01Uh but yeah, then then it then it's off to the editor. Um, and I've already talked to Megan. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Megan is a listener. Do people know Megan?
SPEAKER_00Have we talked about Megan a lot? Um out of respect for their privacy, we haven't mentioned them quite a bit, but they've they've definitely been someone that we bring up every once in a while if they like uh let us share something that they shared with us about an episode that they had thoughts on or a book that they were reading together. Things like that. But Megan is, I would call Megan a friend. They're a really quality, kind human being. And um, one of the reasons why I love this podcast is because we'd never have met Megan without it.
SPEAKER_01It's really hard to promote Megan. Uh but Megan Because Megan doesn't want to be promoted. Doesn't want to be promoted, but Megan is an editor, um, and I think a very good editor and understands the zombie apocalypse genre like in a way that most editors aren't going to. Yeah. They're gonna be like, where's the big bad monster? And Megan knows that the big bad monster is inside of you.
SPEAKER_00It's not the zombies.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01The zombies are just the drama. Megan understands the zombies. So uh, you know, I had a I uh when when Megan announced uh a long time ago um that she was going to be offering her editing services and like was uh doing complimentary edits, I sent some of my work to Megan, which I'm sorry, it's not part of my book anymore. Um but well that's because she gave you good feedback. I think gave me great feedback, and you know, the story the story wasn't bad. Megan liked the story. I didn't like the story, but I learned a lot from what Megan um shared with me about my writing. And you know, if if you want to write a good book, and I know that most people listening are already published authors, because that's kind of that's kind of how it is with this podcast. We have a lot of author friends. Um but if you're if you're if you're writing and you th you're like, wow, uh editors are expensive, um, it's because they're
Why Editors Are Worth It
SPEAKER_01worth it. And the more the more that you can take from them without feeling attacked about your writing, the better off you'll be with your writing, because like it's a huge step to take what you've created and then have somebody look at it and tear it apart and then try to put it the pieces back together again. And that's often where real great stories are told is in the edit.
SPEAKER_00Um As RuPaul says, you can blame it on the edit.
SPEAKER_01Blame it on the edit. So if so if uh if you hate this book, it's Megan's fault.
SPEAKER_00Megan, I would never let him throw you under the house like that. For what it's worth. Um I'm really excited that you're at this moment. It was such an amazing surprise to watch it happen. And another author friend of ours, Joe Salazar, who's got a their book is re-releasing uh under the Source Books as publisher uh on August 25th this year. And we're actually talking to them in a couple of weeks, so they'll be on the podcast. Anyways, they made a point um to Dan that Taylor Swift's best songs were like diarrhea too. Sometimes your best work, I mean, I think there's something about when you're in the flow that does mean something. And I I think what you haven't talked about yet is that this is one book, but how many how many books are in you on this
When A Novella Becomes A Series
SPEAKER_00story?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. So that was also another like internal debate that I had slash am still having. Um, is that when I got to where I logically felt like was the end of this draft, it could keep going. And there's a whole other book inside of me. Uh and I see more books after that, which I haven't worked out the details entirely, but the next the the the the details of the next book are already like imprinted in my brain. Um I know where they're going, I know where they end up, and I know what happens when they get there. And you know who the characters are. I know who the characters are. That part's easy, because there's two. There's actually more. But for the most part, there's two. There's two you gotta worry about, um which are the main characters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it ends, I won't say a lot, but it ends in a clear direction that you're like, oh, I want to read what's next. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um the the thing that I was wondering when I got to that point was, uh, do I keep writing? Um and you know, there's a whole bunch of things that pop up in my brain when I start having thoughts like that, like, will this ever be finished? Will I just have another forever project? Uh what if I what if I write another a a whole other book, and then by the end of that book, I'm like, I deleted everything. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00I'd be so mad. Just so you all know, I have a copy of the manuscript. So if Dan pulls that shit, I'm gonna I'm gonna release it on the black market.
SPEAKER_01Um but I I you know I thought about it a lot. I thought about a lot of writers that I've I've read and enjoyed. Uh one of them being like Stephen King, for example. You know, you might have heard of him.
SPEAKER_00Never.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. Well, um Who is Stephen King? So Stephen King J writes writes books that are like a lot of movies that you've watched. Um, you know the one about the hotel with the shining? The ghost twins and the boy that drives the tricycle?
SPEAKER_00Ran Ram.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, he wrote a book like that. Uh probably probably uh inspired by it or something. Uh but yeah, so um Stephen King, he wrote a lot of like short stories that became movies or big books. And a perfect example of that is The Dark Tower. And if you've read The Dark Tower, uh It's a lot to read. You could you would be like, How the fuck was that a short story? Um but the the answer is like the beginning of the Dark Tower when when Roland is just walking through the desert and he finds a a little dive bar where the where Hey Jude is playing on the jukebox. Um like that part was the short story, and then he submitted that to a magazine. The magazine was like, This is cool, and they printed it, and people are like, We want more of Roland. We want to know the cowboy story with the weird stuff happening. Um, and it took him like decades, and now it's six books, and each of those books are like thousands of pages long. Like they are not light reads, like you don't read the Dark Tower in like a week or a month. I think it took my entire teenagehood to finish it. Well, if it was your teenagehood, you haven't finished it then. There were more? Yeah, there's six books, and like the last one was like 2006, I think.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that would be a yeah, I mean, then it would be a teenager anymore, but I there's also a graphic novel.
SPEAKER_01The graphic novel was my introduction to the Dark Tower. Oh, and I'm like, I just found it on a bookshelf, and I'm like, this looks cool.
SPEAKER_00That's the other thing about what you've done with The Bad Road, though, is that like it would make a really great comic series. It would. The visuals that you describe and like just the story itself lend so well to that kind of art form, but I think it's good to just get it out as the story, and then maybe if there's hunger for it, then you do a different iterations. But I so have you decided you're gonna just publish this one while you're working on the next one?
Publishing Plan And Formats
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so my plan is, you know, I'll I'll publish this. And I don't even know the details, like maybe it'll just be digital only. Maybe you'll be able to buy a physical copy. Maybe I'll be mad at Amazon and I'll be like, only physical copies, only from Barnes and Noble.
SPEAKER_00No, only physical copies made by Lori Calcatera in her uh I'm printing these on a printer in my bedroom. Shipping them to Lori to create the cover or like put the colour.
SPEAKER_01They're all hard covers with gold leaf foil. Um, which would actually be really awesome. I mean, she is good at book of mind. Lori, let's talk. Um, I'm assuming you're listening. Uh yeah, so I'm I'm gonna do that, but then as as more come out, I'll release those as well. But at a point, there's gonna be enough there for a whole novel. And it's all it's all gonna be like the way I see it, it's all seamlessly connected. I just smush them together, and that's one novel. So, like, kind of like how comics will do a trade paperback where they're like, this is episodes one through four.
SPEAKER_00Like what Lori's Kickstarter is doing right now is five through eight.
SPEAKER_01And then we'll put those in a hardcover with gold foil. Yeah, there we go. Um, but yeah, that's kind of the plan right now. It's it's tough because like there's a there's a uh a uh a beast in me that wants a big book. I'm a big boy and I want a big book. Um, and one day I'll have that. But until then, I think people will be really excited to to check it out. And I think that this is also kind of a good idea because you know, especially like as we go to more uh like trade shows or cons and stuff, it's kind of hard to talk people into a big book. Yes you know, they see a big fat book there, they're like, I don't know if I'm gonna like this, and it's fifteen dollars. Ugh, gross. Especially in this economy. But if you're like, look, this book, it's like 70 or 80 pages, and they're like, oh, I can read half of that.
SPEAKER_00The truth.
SPEAKER_01I'll get most of the story before I decide I don't like it. Um but yeah, I think I think writing things that are, you know, smaller and easily digestible might actually be a really smart idea.
SPEAKER_00I it's interesting because I know that you are the big book guy, but I do think that that is as someone who in this day and age, I feel like to ask someone to read something of yours when there is so much out there, you've got to have a compelling reason. It's gotta feel compelling to a person. And like having something short is not asking too much of someone to decide if they like your writing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This one has a big surprise. I think people are either gonna love it or hate it. That's all I'm gonna say. Yeah. You're either gonna love this book or you're gonna hate this book.
SPEAKER_01I feel like if uh if you've been listening to us this long, you'll probably love it.
SPEAKER_00Well, yes.
SPEAKER_01If you're I've But if I meet but if I meet you at a at a convention, there's a 50-50 shot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It might upset some people, but I'm very okay with that.
SPEAKER_01They're like, brother, cowboys on motorcycles in the desert fighting zombies. Awesome. Awesome. They get halfway through it and they're like, this is bullshit. Where is that guy? So I gotta throw his book back at him. No refunds. Um, I'm I'm excited about this news. It's kind of hard to feel excited because I'm not done yet. Um, so a lot of people have asked me how it feels. I don't know. I don't know how it feels. Uh I'm happy. I'm happy that I have a draft done. That's good. Um, and I I feel like I'll probably feel the same way even as I'm sending it off to print. I'll be like, I don't have a physical copy in my hand, so it's not real. Um, and then when I get a physical copy, I'm gonna be like, who is this fraud?
SPEAKER_00I imagine that must be hard because it is like a time capsule. And whatever you put out there is is its own moment. And over time you might feel differently about it. But I think in this moment, like as an objective person, I know some people are like, You're Dan's spouse, you're not objective. I would tell Dan if it sucked.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, I've had a lot of feedback training as part of my work. I navigate a lot of like interpersonal things in my work, relationships, partnerships, whatever. So feedback and giving direct feedback. Plus, I was a minor in creative writing. So that was literally every week for a couple of classes. We were just giving people feedback on their writing. So I'm not afraid to tell you if something's not good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so I'm I'm putting my Leah's stamp. This is really great. And I wouldn't, I would absolutely not tell you if it wasn't that. And I've already told you the parts I think you should address.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And there'll probably be more of that.
SPEAKER_00There's very few and far between, though. That's what I'm saying. Is like it really could have I think that's the the blessing and the challenge of indie publishing is like there's a varying degree of quality and care that go into it. Sometimes people, um, you know, because of budgets, because of all kinds of things, like maybe they don't edit it as many times, maybe they just want to get it out there. But like we've I've run into many an indie book where there's like a lot of typos and stuff, and I give grace because it is an indie book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I read your story. There was not a single typo in your first draft. I didn't catch one. And I read every single word, and I am the type like I when I see a typo on somebody's website, I am that person that emails them. Like it really bothers me.
SPEAKER_01So when I when I uh when I in the span of two days wrote over 8,000 words, I didn't misspell anything. Not that I caught. Wow. Not a single thing. That's incredible. I can't I can't even I can't even like text my mom without without without like misspelling something.
SPEAKER_00That's thumb texting, though. There's like so much opportunity for error. But I I was really, I was like, there's no typos.
SPEAKER_01Texting my mom, I'm like, I'll bring the potato sabblub.
SPEAKER_00Sablob blah blah. Uh yeah, my feedback was, and I'm sure you're gonna get much more robust feedback from from Megan. But yeah, I didn't really have much much to say. Yeah. You could put it out today, but I agree that it's worth taking the time to make it beautiful even more beautiful and extra shiny.
SPEAKER_01Especially at the end. Uh the end, you know, I I I glossed over a lot of things. It could it could use it could use some punching up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but other than that, I like there's there's parts at the beginning where I'm just like, yeah, it just came out. It just came out the way it was meant to come out. And I love it when that happens. Um, yeah, I've I've the things things that I've always felt like was my best writing was stuff that just like came out of me. Um and it and it came out that way, and then it hit the paper that way, and I'm like, yeah, that's good. Yeah. Uh can't can't can't do anything more of that. And that's great because that's a whole lot less work in the second draft.
Marketing Anxiety And Indie Choices
SPEAKER_01So, Dan, how are you gonna market this thing?
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_01I'm really not thinking about that because I find it really stressful the way that uh algorithms and everything change so much, and then like there's so much strategy beyond behind like uh you know, paid advertising, uh and like social media marketing, and that's stress for another day. Um while I'm working on the book, I don't think I'm gonna think about it too much because honestly it's kind of depressing. Um and uh gives a lot of anxiety.
SPEAKER_00Why is it just because it's hard out there?
SPEAKER_01It's hard out there for a pamphlia. Um but yeah it's it's it's not just that it's hard it's that it's like opaque. They there's there's a way to do it and they don't want you to know. They don't want you to know how to do it. Um and as soon as you figure out how to do it they'll change the rules. So I'm gonna I'm gonna worry about that later. For now it's just it's just here. You know I'm I'm sure there will be at least 10 people ten people that'll be like I have five to ten dollars I don't know how much a novella costs I don't know TBDs. Yeah I don't even know how much to charge Leah from my hand leaf loose leaf bound book leaf hardcover in a manila folder with a with a hand drawing of a dude on a motorcycle. I mean you know what that'll be more authentic than a lot of the AI slot that's out there right now. That's true. Um uh something that I I think um people might might wonder is if this will set back the book that I've been writing all this time.
SPEAKER_00I've been wondering that but I didn't want to ask because I like your bad road stories right now and I need the next book because I've already read the first book and I need to know what happens next. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm not I'm not gonna give up on it because um because it's still it's still my baby. You know it still has a lot of the a lot of the stuff that I that I want to do uh in it. It's it's still a great story. Um but it I think it is going to take a look a little bit of a back burner just because I have this story that's trying to diarrhea its way out of me. And you know when you have diarrhea uh I don't I don't know what to do with this with this uh metaphor.
SPEAKER_00I mean you can either you gotta sit on the toilet till it's done or get yourself some emodium but then you're just you're helping Big Imodium as Naila King would say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah don't help Big Imodium.
SPEAKER_00No you gotta let it out. Then you're gonna be constipated and frustrated.
Mushrooms And Rethinking The Big Book
SPEAKER_00Yeah um so yeah it'll it'll it'll delay it a little bit but if if book two goes anything like book one which I hope really hope it does uh it won't set it back too long definitely not any longer than it already already's taken and maybe it'll change a lot of factors about it because like my the book that I'm that I've been writing it's it's multiple perspectives maybe I'm like you know what this needs to be cut in half this this this big giant ass book with multiple perspectives maybe needs to be smaller books with individual perspectives whoa maybe um I swear to god this is the effect of mushrooms people yeah I'm not joking do drugs kids I I really because like these are things we've discussed like and you you did mushrooms and then did a thing that you were not gonna do and now you're talking about completely changing the structure of your book which is something we've talked about and you're like it like there was our brains get rigid with where I we have ideas and then you get neuro more neuroplasticity with mushrooms and I literally feel like I'm watching that happen right now with this like well maybe I could do it totally differently and I kind of love that. Yeah. Who knows what will happen. But it's nice that you can I think it's a really refreshing reminder that we can make just because you're going down a road I mean sometimes it's a bad road and you're stuck on it for a while whether you like it or not like your book. But at some point there's an intersection and you can make a different choice. You don't have to go with the same choice you've had.
SPEAKER_01You don't you don't have to take the left turn in Albuquerque. No you can go right you can turn back around. You can I don't know why Bugspunny didn't just go back to Albuquerque. That's a good question. I don't know Bugspunny should have done mushrooms. Maybe he did. No maybe you know who should have done mushrooms? Elmer Fudd Elmer Fudd needs to do mushrooms Elmer Fudd needs to get the get his head out of his ass and he needs to build some new neural pathways um also Daffy Duck. Daffy Duck's definitely done drugs. But not the right ones Daffy Duck is a maybe cocaine guy for sure.
SPEAKER_00What about Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse I think Helium They just huff helium like crazy.
SPEAKER_01Causes a lot of brain damage if you if you do too much that would make sense yeah yeah um but I interrupted you by being like that's the mushrooms then we talked about cartoons. Yeah um Wily Coyote needs mushrooms.
SPEAKER_00Well Roadrunner's literally on speed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah but also the Roadrunner he's on some other things like what? He's he's he's he's 10 steps ahead 10 steps ahead at or all yes um but yeah I I I I think you know I I love writing in the same universe like I I would never change the uh the apocalyptic universe that I'm writing in um because I think there's so many opportunities to write any kinds of stories any kinds of characters and like this is a perfect example of it because it's so so different from what I have been writing but it's also naturally channeled all the things that I felt like I was missing in my other writing which is like the humor of it. Like it's still it's still dark and gritty and uh sometimes terrifying and has high stakes. Yep. But at the same time these these siblings are have like the darkest humor and I really missed I really missed the dark humor. I always wondered like if people read my book and it's not funny are they gonna feel ripped off because like I'm I'm kind of like over here making dark jokes on the internet all this time. And then your book's too serious? And then it's like it's like let me tell you this most serious story that's ever happened. So uh I think you know I th when I when I went into this I'm like if nothing else this is gonna be a learning experience. Like I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna t go a different direction. I'm gonna go gonna go down a different road. Maybe it's a good road not a bad road it's probably a bad road um but it's gonna it's gonna open something up it's like gonna unlock something I'm gonna unlock an achievement and uh it's gonna change it's gonna change my writing.
SPEAKER_00Do I need to make you like a gold star?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay I'll work on it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah like um like out of like construction paper?
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah well this won't be the last time you hear about the bad road in fact I think it's the first time. It is the first time. Well other than the joke one. Yeah but I didn't really talk about that one when when I did it no that's true. Yeah maybe a little bit I put it on the internet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that was about it.
SPEAKER_00Well I have some good news for
Zombie Book Recs And Preorders
SPEAKER_00people. While Dan's book is not out there are so many great zombie books out there and we just received a copy of book one of the Zombie Dog series by Doug Goodman called Cadaver Dog and it's one of 11 books in a series so if you're like I want a zombie dog series uh the first one's cadaver dog the second one's dead dog the third one's zombie dog the fourth one's ghost dog the fifth one's murder dog the sixth one's forever dog the art's great on it too the seventh one is Median dog Midian Median M-I-D-I-A-N not sure how to say that sounds like Median number eight is rot dog number nine is lick lick dog but it's L-I-C-H and there's a fucking zombie bear there's a zombie bear on that cover zombie um then there is oh I think that's it maybe it's there's only I don't know I'm look I'm scrolling through on uh Amazon so I can't for guarantee you that's all of them but anyways it's a full-on series it's by author Doug Goodman it has original art on it that is very cool and I'll just read the back it takes a strange dog to do the job nobody in their right mind would do and a slightly offhandler too. Nobody knows where the zombies came from nobody knows why they attack people or where they go. Now an outcast of the dog world has been tasked with finding the answers but first she must decide which dog to train Waylon, a loving and joyful white labrador who is canine perfection or murder a mixed breed scary looking troublemaker. She needs a dog she can trust, a dog who obeys and most importantly a dog who isn't afraid of the horrors of the undead she chose murder to hunt the zombies perhaps she chose the wrong dog. Uh-oh cadaver dog is book one of the Zombie Dog series a tender and terrifying horror book and a new vision of the zombie apocalypse to come and then there's a lovely picture of Doug Goodman and his very cute dog that looks nothing like murder or whalon and says Doug Goodman is the international bestselling author of Wendigo Road Kaiju Not Terrible Lizard and the Zombie Dog series. He grew up in Lubbock and now lives on the outskirts of Austin and this book uh has 330 reviews on Goodreads and it's got a 4.2 That's great. So that says a lot.
SPEAKER_01That's pretty high for a book that the dog dies in we don't know if the dog dies. Oh well I assume that since it's a zombie dog.
SPEAKER_00I mean the dog on the front cover is pretty scary. He's got red glowing eyes. That must be murder and also its ears partly ripped off and it looks like there's hornets oh no not hornets and zombie hands that are like reaching up to get the dog. Uh oh so yeah it is scary but zombie hornets no thanks it does bring you know the point of view of a dog and then the back dog weight lawn is super cute.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that that is true that's a cute dog.
SPEAKER_00And it just has sad uh limb flowers no hornets and its reds aren't its eyes aren't red.
SPEAKER_01So that's that's good.
SPEAKER_00Anyhow while you're waiting for the Bad Road that's a series you could pick up. And if you haven't yet you should be pre-ordering from our two author friends who write fabulous books The Twelfth House by Robert de la Chevautière is coming out on August 25th and so is If we survive the night by Joe Salazar. So those are two books you should pre-order and they have audible as well. That's my final question for you about your book Dan is will you have an audio an audiobook?
SPEAKER_01I think I should um but also I feel like maybe I should wait until uh the thing that I was discussing earlier where the multiple small books become one big one.
SPEAKER_00And you need somebody who can sing like a punk rocker. Yeah otherwise they're gonna they're gonna absolutely destroy the the cock chop song like I did. Cock chopper.
SPEAKER_01You know that was I think that was good for the original. So I'll be in touch.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well I wasn't singing in tune so we can workshop it well it's punk rock you don't have to be in tune.
SPEAKER_01Oh okay you just have to scream I wasn't screaming either well those are my notes.
SPEAKER_00Okay thank you you give me notes on I'm I'm happy to record. Actually you know we have some singer friends.
SPEAKER_01That's true. We should we should look them up.
SPEAKER_00Yes not sing any names because I don't want to put a band together. Let's do it let's put a band together we're gonna make a punk rock band.
SPEAKER_01Yeah we're gonna call it cock chop yeah thanks for listening everyone um I I hope that I have this book done soon so that you can buy it with your money which becomes my money.
SPEAKER_00Which just helps pay for the printing and all the things.
SPEAKER_01Honestly I just want people to read it so um stay tuned for information about how I plan on doing that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it'll probably come on our Patreon first our free tree on the hangout spot. Uh one last little bit of news is that uh next week's episode is going to be with TJ Payne author of Intercepts which is our current book club read. Uh Dan and I listen to it on the road back from Living Dead weekend are obsessed and really excited to interview him actually tomorrow and it'll be out after this issue or after this episode. Yay Yay Hi TJ Yeah I don't know if they go by TJ or something else I can't say I'm gonna wait till I've talked to them tomorrow it's on their book. TJ Payne TJ Payne P-A-Y-N-E also available right now so if you want to catch up and be a part of the book club discussion I have not scheduled a date for that yet but it's coming want to make sure we chat with TJ Payne first but I highly recommend you get that book it is really good and really gory. Yeah prepare thyself the gore levels and there's some workplace horror for lack of a better description. So if you're really depressed about your job this will either be very validating or make you have even darker thoughts than you're already having. So consider that when you make a decision if you're gonna pick this book up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And just remember it can always get worse. It can always get worse. I don't know if that's supposed to make you feel better or not.
Wildfire Smoke And Closing Thoughts
SPEAKER_00I mean we are stuck inside today because of wildfire smoke and there's the decimation of countless animals and we're in the sixth mass extinction on the planet thanks to human intervention specifically called the Anthropocene so Anthropocene? Anthropocene? Anthropocene yeah did you know that Dan? Yes yeah fun facts I know all about the Anthropocene yeah I know all about it I'd rather have the bad road the you might you might get the bad road are all the animals doing okay on the bad road some of them probably are yeah can the animals get the virus? No great yeah I I only want human zombies I love that but the human zombies might eat the animals although if humans can get it then there might be some you know like birds maybe mice some of our closer relatives could get it throwing it out there.
SPEAKER_01Or or transmit it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah well I'll leave you with that thought and um if you're drink if you're eating lettuce right now be careful.
SPEAKER_01Have fun.
SPEAKER_00Yep and uh have fun later enjoy your snatched waste after yeah I lost 50 pounds bring one lettuce bye everybody everybody