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Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
"Feed" by Mira Grant - Book Club Discussion | Zombie Book Club Ep 154
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Feed by Mira Grant promised us zombies and delivered a political thriller, and our book club had FEELINGS about that. Dan and Leah bring a full courtroom vibe to Newsflesh Book 1: praising its ambitious post-apocalyptic world where society survives by way of constant biosecurity surveillance, Romero-rules-as-cultural-canon, and bloggers covering a presidential campaign instead of mainstream journalists. The double meaning of "the feed" opens up rich questions about media trust, who gets to claim objectivity, and what we owe each other when the truth is literally life or death.
But the jury is hung. Between 608 pages of procedural detail, repeated exposition, and a zombie threat that feels more bureaucratically managed than terrifying, Feed didn't fully land for everyone at the table. We dig into representation (disability, body diversity, race, queerness), why a beloved and foundational book can still frustrate readers, and what feels urgently resonant right now: the way "safety" becomes a justification for checkpoints, surveillance, and the normalization of controlled movement.
Links & Contact Info
Mira Grant (pen name of Seanan McGuire)
- Website: miragrant.com | seananmcguire.com
- Bluesky: @seananmcguire.bsky.social
Alice B. Sullivan (zombie author whose love of Newsflesh helped inspire her own fiction)
- Website: alicebsullivan.com
- Instagram: @zombieauthor_alicebsullivan
Zombie Book Club Links
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- Zombie Book Club Email: ZombieBookClubPodcast@gmail.com
Welcome
Welcome To Zombie Book Club
SPEAKER_01to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is hungry. I'm Dan, and when I'm not feeding myself, I'm writing a book where the majority of the time all there is to eat is a peanut butter paste called R UTF. It's good at first, but then starts to get old over time.
SPEAKER_00What does R UTF stand for?
SPEAKER_01I don't remember exactly. It's um Rutherherapeutic food. Oh. They it's a real thing. Okay. Um they send it to countries that are that have um famine? Famine. Um and it keeps kids alive. Each pack is about 500 calories. And it basically tastes like a sweeter version of peanut butter.
SPEAKER_00I mean, peanut butter that is like typical peanut butter people is pretty damn sweet. I'm a natural peanut butter person. I'm Leah. And you're a natural peanut butter person. I'm a natural peanut butter person. Get out of there, sugar and corn syrup. Peanuts are great as they are. Today we're talking about our second book club read of the year, Feed by Mira Grant, book one of her best-selling news flesh series. We release episodes every Sunday. So this is your official subpoena to subscribe and report for jury duty, because today's feed discussion is a full-on book club court case controversy. It is. It is. Oh boy. I mean, I know how we feel about it. Yeah. But if you've read feed, I think I also know how you might feel about it based on our book club discussion. You know what?
SPEAKER_01It's we don't all feel the same. To quote Mitch Hedberg, either loved it or he hated it or he thought it was okay.
SPEAKER_00I think the jury would be divided. We'd have a hung jury if this was actually a court case. Yeah.
Solstice Woods Walk And Revelations
SPEAKER_00Before we get into feed, let's do some life updates, Dan. Oh, yesterday was solstice. Yeah, happy solstice. It's a week out now. So the days are already getting shorter when you're listening to this. That sucks. But it is summer. Yeah, it's summer now. And uh the last episode, last week's episode, uh, we recorded, was feeling pretty down, pretty tired, pretty worn out.
SPEAKER_01And then I hugged a tree. Uh, we partook in perfectly legal um recreational activities uh that made us feel and think in certain ways that are outside of the norm. In a place that's undisclosed, but I assure you was a perfectly safe and legal environment to do these very legal things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whatever that might be.
SPEAKER_00What was your favorite part of our legal recreation?
SPEAKER_01Uh walking barefoot in the woods. Yeah. Um, at some point the shoes came off, and I I remember just looking at my feet and being like, why don't we always do this?
SPEAKER_00Why don't why do I wear shoes? I mean, I think there's good times of year to wear shoes, but summer in Vermont, they're not necessary if you're on the grass or the moss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the moss is great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the sand.
SPEAKER_01The sand is great. I even walked in the driveway. I don't know about that. It was painful. Yeah. Uh I had a very interesting revelation, which is that uh there's all these things that we do to make our lives more comfortable, like um having a gravel driveway. You know, we have driveways, we have hardwood floors, uh you know, we have all these things, and we and we do them because society expects us to have a driveway that looks like a driveway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but in order to enjoy the comfort of having your driveway, you need to put things on your feet so you don't feel it like shoes. Deep thoughts via recreational times. So I just felt like I was just gonna experience the pain of walking in a gravel driveway without shoes. Wow. Um, and it gave I had a lot of writing insights walking through the driveway um and the 47-hour journey from the middle of our yard to inside to get water to bring back an a uh Tolkien-esque quest to get Leah a bottle of water. It's very kind of you, thank you. Yeah, and also put our phones inside because it was also raining. And let Ziggy out. And let Ziggy out. Ziggy wanted to be out somewhere.
SPEAKER_00We just left the door oh, you just left the door open so Ziggy could be inside or outside, whatever you wanted while we were off on our journey. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, I looked at the door and I'm like, why does why does this have to be closed? And now our door won't open. So there's something, there's something there. I'm not sure what that's about. Our doorknob no longer works. I don't know. I'd go through our back door.
SPEAKER_00I didn't do anything to it. I didn't either. I blame Simon. Simon did it. He's not here to defend himself. Um what was what would give me one book insight? Oh.
SPEAKER_01Uh horror for horror's sake is kind of pointless. Like, you know, if um if if you're just writing things that are horrifying and things that you deem to be scary, I'd I d like for the reader to to stay there and continue to experience it without there being a point um doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And I think that's what separates uh good fiction from okay fiction. Uh but like the reader wants to experience a wide depth of emotional textures. Textures, yes. But also they want they like they want to feel the ground under the character's feet. They want to feel the environment around. Um then and there's just so many ways that we just gloss over these things because in our lives we've kind of been numbed to so many things. Um yeah, our brain is trained to like sort of sort things out. Yeah. And we do so much to avoid discomfort that like you it's it's you have to realize that in order to connect with people and try to express what horror is, you have to be comfortable with discomfort. And uh I thought about that because it was a little cold and I was in shorts and a t-shirt. I'm like, ah, it's cold. And then I had a thought where I said, colder than what? And uh I'm like, yeah, what is it colder than? I mean, it's the solstice, so it couldn't be that cold. Colder than my preferences?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, it wasn't like dangerously cold. Yeah, it was like 68.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Which is like warmer than our houses in the wintertime.
SPEAKER_01There was a breeze.
SPEAKER_00And and little rain droplets.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and rain. Um, yeah, and when it started raining, I'm just like, this is just discomfort. That's fine.
SPEAKER_00I had many revelations that I can't describe with words, um, mostly while hugging the tree trunk. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We have a downed tree in our yard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Leah was riding it like a witch's broomstick. I was because it's like almost like a teeter-totter, the way that it's bounced, like part of it is above not touching the ground. Yeah. And it's bouncy. So that was fun. But then I was just like, I love you, and I needed to hug the tree for a while. And then I saw things. I saw, close my eyes, and I saw like fractals of Dan's face smiling at me. It was wild. Um, and then I looked at my house uh and our yard and all the different projects that we've started and not completed. Uh, and I realized our home is the house of many unfinished projects. So that's its subtitle now. And it the project will never be finished until we die. So I'm gonna love it.
SPEAKER_01I also had a revelation about wizards. Wizards have stavs. Yes. And it's often thought that the wizard's staff is magical, like it holds power, has like crystals in it and all kinds of shit that uh amplifies the wizard's ability. And as I was as I was ho using a stick to hold myself up and uh sometimes closing my eyes to listen to distant noises, and then picturing where in the world those noises were coming from and what it looked like. And nearly falling over, I realized that a wizard's staff uh its most important feature is that it keeps the wizard standing up.
SPEAKER_00It keeps you on earth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. When you're off on other journeys. Yeah. I spent some good times with a spider. I saw some really tiny insects that I showed you that were on the parts of like grass, the little grainy part of the grass. Yeah. And then we discovered some flowers that I I planted but forgot about. Which is really cool. It was lovely. Yeah. Highly recommend. I feel a lot better about life right now. Found a foxhole. We're not sure if it's a foxhole, but a hole. I think it's a foxhole. I feel like that's a really small foxhole. Foxes like small holes. I think it's more like a bunny.
SPEAKER_01It could be a bunny.
SPEAKER_00I hope it's a bunny.
SPEAKER_01Or a woodchuck. Yeah. But I want to believe it's a fox because we see a fox in our yard like a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Could be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Who knows?
SPEAKER_00It was a good time. Highly recommend uh engaging in legal recreational activities on a summer solstice. Yeah. You too may see Dan's face smiling at you in fractals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, let's talk about a book.
Why Feed And Why Now
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's feed, baby. Yeah, feed me. We did just get back from Black Magic Muxcan, so we are very fucking full. I am so full. I ate an entire taco salad, which was huge. Yeah, and then we got um peach soft serve. Yeah. All vegan, by the way. Fantastic. Yeah, the place is great. Yeah, a place called Lebanon, New Hampshire. Check it out. Yeah, it's worth the drive. Yeah, but but let's do some basics if anybody needs just like let's ground ourselves in what this book's about, and then we'll talk about what we thought about it, our conversation with our zombie besties in the book club. Why this is so late coming out, reminder, we got very sick. Dan's doctor said probably wasn't COVID, but it was RSV.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he said it was probably RSV. It's going around and it will knock you out for like three weeks.
SPEAKER_00And it did. Yeah. So we're a little belated on everything, and we don't actually just full disclosure have our second or our third book club book selected, but it's also summer. So I think we can be a little leisurely with this. Yeah. People are out doing exciting things. This would have been a perfect time of year to read Waves of Undead. We found out about Waves of Undead. It's actually just the one year anniversary of Rebecca's book. Yeah. Um, a couple, I think like a week or so ago, I saw her post. I feel like that's the summertime.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we definitely waves of undead. It's great. Grab a hammock, go to the beach, read Waves of Undead. Then go surfing. Yeah, go surfing. Learn to surf.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bought a copy from my friend in Canada who loves to read and will also be stoked it's Canadian author.
SPEAKER_01So cosplay as a zombie, go surfing, read Waves of Undead, send us a picture.
SPEAKER_00Okay, back to the book at hand.
Feed Setup Zombies Media Politics
SPEAKER_00Feed. This is this. I'm gonna just read for you the good reads description. Okay. And you can tell me how much you agree or disagree after I finish. Feed is an electrifying and critically acclaimed novel of a world a half step from our own that the New York Times calls astonishing. A novel of zombies, geeks, politics, social media, and the virus that runs through them all. From New York Times bestseller, Mira Grant. The year was 2014. We had cured cancer. We had beat the common cold, but in doing so, we created something new, something terrible that no one could stop. The infection spread. Virus blocks taking over bodies and minds with one unstoppable command. Feed. Now, 20 years after the rising, Georgia and Sean Mason are on the trail of the biggest story of their lives, the dark conspiracy behind the infected. The truth will come out, even if it kills them. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Uh, you know, right away, I feel like I feel like that era of like, because this was this came out in 2010. Yep. Uh, so this was in the distant future, 2014. And then 2034 is 20 years later. Yeah. Like the idea that um cancer has been cured by then, the common cold has been beaten was like very much of that time where it's like, we have so much knowledge and technology, how could we not advance as a civilization and solve these problems like in the next four years? Yeah, or two years into Obama's presidency. Yes, we can.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we can. Yeah. Hope. Yeah. Uh what's I think interesting is when I was reading it, I just sort of assumed because this story is set or the the plague starts in 2014 that this book was written post Walking Dead being released, but it actually came out May 1st, 20, 2010. And Walking Dead premiered in October 31st, 2010. So this is pre-Walking Dead, which I think is really interesting. It has three and a half or sorry, 3.85 rating on Goodreads with more than 7,000 reviews. And the reason why we chose it is it's Alice B. Sullivan's favorite zombie series. It's the books that inspired her to start writing zombie fiction. Yeah. So no big deal. And then we put it up for a vote, and it was the winner on our Patreon Survivor Camp vote for the next book episode or the book club episode. Which we do on Patreon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which is free.
SPEAKER_01Free Treon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can give us money, but it's optional.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we like it, but we don't need it right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm glad to say that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's a great place to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Shout out to everybody who supported us when I was a few years ago. A few months ago, different. Really needed it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so I just want to say that when I when when I heard Alice describing this book after we had just finished our discussion about Colson Whitehead's um zone one, sounded great. I was excited and I love Alice's writing. So I'm like, I gotta see what inspired Alice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I will say it started off with a bang. Um the the first chapter delivered everything that I would want in a zombie story. Like they're out in the zombies, they're surrounded by them. And they're fighting. They yeah, they're fighting. They take off on a dirt bike, they they jump the dirt bike over a horde of zombies. And I'm like, That's rad. Even though it was like kind of far-fetched, like the characters knew it was far-fetched and not a good idea to do, but like they they took it, they took a shot and they went for it. So I I found it acceptable. I'm like, okay, it's not, it's not crazy. Yeah. Um, they're just, you know, in a bad spot and they're like, I think I can do it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think this is the core attention of the episode, why it's a court a court case where you've been subpoenaed. Yeah. Is that for some people in our book club, it's beloved, highly influential. Uh, and also, like, I'd heard great things about it from my yoga teacher's husband, for example. Like, yeah, randomly when we found out that he loves zombie books, the first one he said was like, Have you read Mira Grant's feed? Yeah. So we had high expectations, which I honestly think is always dangerous going into reading.
SPEAKER_01But the word thing love comes out. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like I love this book. I will read it on repeat. Yeah. Uh, but that wasn't my experience. And that was definitely not your experience. So I think we need to do this episode as a compliment sandwich. Do you know what those are? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's a compliment sandwich? Um, do you want me to give you a compliment sandwich? Yeah. Um, I don't feel safe doing that.
SPEAKER_00You can pick something. It's okay. I trust you.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Uh, your your hair buttons are very cute today. Um, but your headphones are covering up your hair buns, uh, which makes me a little bit sad. Um, but also uh you have a really nice smile and it makes me happy.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, we're gonna do that. Except for that the middle of the sandwich, the critiquing part's gonna be real spicy. Yeah. Think of a pimento cheese sandwich, but with way too much pimento. Or whatever the spicy part is. Yeah. Uh so let's start, let's start with the good things, the things we liked.
What Works Worldbuilding And Virus Logic
SPEAKER_00Okay, Dan, I believe in your ability to do this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's something you liked from this book? All in all, I like the story. Like I like what happens in the story. I I I think it's very different. Um, it's it's following it's following a a political uh campaign for president, for president of America after the zombie apocalypse. 20 years later. It's already happened. There's still zombies, um, but people they live out there. Um society hasn't collapsed. There's still systems in place. Yeah. Uh and like there was clearly a lot of care in constructing the world. Um, a lot of thought was put into it. In fact, I think Alice was telling us at some point where uh Mira Grant would call up somebody from the CDC to just ask them endless questions about diseases. Yeah. Um, so I like especially as a writer, I really appreciate the amount of time and thought and effort that goes into thinking about the the realism of what you're trying to create and trying to make it like a living, breathing world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's a big one. I also enjoyed that George A. Romero's zombie rules were like widely known in this world. So zombies are real, it's not one of those ones that they're called something else. And that's why we survived as a species, that we were able to survive and figure it out and maintain society 20 years into an apocalypse, even with zombie hungry people out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And names like George or Georgia, like the main character, are very popular names in the future because of George Romero.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really cute. And like a great homage from Mira Grant.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I also liked that feed, the the name feed. I love a good double entendre.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's not just about zombies feeding, it's about the feed, like the like our feed. The website feeds, website feed blogging specifically in this world that we're not, I shouldn't say we're all addicted to, but many of us are and overly reliant on. And the main characters, Georgia and Sean Mayson, are bloggers. Uh their mother was a famous media person. Um, and they're they're obsessed with with the feed. They're obsessed with how well their feed is doing. The their popularity of their blog is why they got to be on a presidential campaign. Um, and so that was really interesting to me, that take on that word as mean not just zombies in the sense of zombies, but also like the our our obsession with information.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And how it shapes our reality.
SPEAKER_01That's true.
SPEAKER_00Last thing that I have that's on the I think this was well done, and it connects to your CDC comment is the science behind the zombie virus. Uh, they it has a name, it's called the Kellas Amberly or K-A. And it's not so much a single zombie virus, but more like a two-stage, always present biological system that really defines what infection means in the world. People are carrying different amounts of viral load and could spontaneously become zombies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's wild and kind of fun. And the fact that it's a genetically engineered like viral fusion of things to cure disease was a different take. Um, and that it eliminates all these other diseases, but creates one that's way fucking worse. Is a really good reminder of how science, you know, when we try to fix something, we often fuck other things up. That's very real. That's true.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I I don't know. I don't know if that's something that I loved about really. I mean I mean, I think it was overly described and we'll get there. I think it was just complicated. Like it's it's described so often in the book that it's hard not to know these details, but like seeing how it all fits together is a bit much because there's just so many there's so many rules for the virus, yeah. And so many facts about the virus that you you tend to know these things, but then you're like, but how does it like what did this even look like?
SPEAKER_00Damn, we're still at the part of the bread. It's bread. But the bread? Yeah, we haven't gotten to the spicy middle of the sandwich yet. Hold thine tongue, hold thine tongue. Anyways, that's let me finish what I liked about it. I just like it. You can't do it, can you? You can't do it. I just felt frustrated about it. Shh. Your spicy mayo is getting making it. The mayo is coming out. Bread soggy. Let me finish my compliment. Okay. Part of a sandwich. I think it's well done in the sense that there are very clear rules, there's a logic to it, and that the world that we're in 20 years later is 100% shaped by the virus and how you survive around it. Like society is totally reorganized around constant testing for your viral load with biosecurity checkpoints, uh, controlled movement and surveillance. Like everything is under control. Everything is seen as a potential activation event. And the horror, as you in any good zombie fiction, is not just the zombies, it's the way that this virus has been used to control people and grab power.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I thought that was well done. Now we can go to the spicy middle, Dan.
The Spicy Critique Length Repetition Names
SPEAKER_00Feel free to respond to what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02I'm frustrated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I, you know, just going along with how I felt about that virus, a lot of facts in the book are kind of like that, where it's just like, like, for example, animals can be infected with a virus. Um, but they don't turn into zombies if they're over, if they're if they're under 40 pounds.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But if they're one pound over 40 pounds, uh, you gotta euthanize that sucker or something.
SPEAKER_00Which was interesting as a concept. But what was not interesting was that I'm pretty sure that it was every page almost. Yeah, it's it was mentioned constantly, like we'd forgotten again that an animal over 40 pounds could become a zombie. Definitely every chapter. Yeah. And it never mattered. That's not true. There was a cat. There was a horse. The fucking horse. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_01There was a cat and a horse. In the in the same in the same chapter. It could have been mentioned in that chapter. And at the beginning, maybe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that would have been fair.
SPEAKER_01In that chapter, we've been like, Oh yeah. I remember that thing that you said.
SPEAKER_00But it felt like it was we were being like constantly reminded so that when it happened we would know. And also that the main character, Georgia, like really hated animal rights activists. Yeah. Um, but had like a nuanced view there. She was like, I do because there was like lots of debate about whether or not we should just exterminate all animals over 40 pounds. And her view was like, it's okay to have them in the wild, like wild animals over 40 pounds, but no domestic animals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you're kind of just like holding on to a yeah.
SPEAKER_00But of course, rich people with the pin poles. Rich people keep their horses and they have like all of these really insane processes to cut they constantly testing the viral load of the horses. Yeah. Turns out, spoiler, horse gets infected. Yeah. Intentionally.
SPEAKER_01It does, it does feel it does feel accurate. Like in a world where they're like, this is really dangerous and bad for us. The rich people will be like, and that's why we want it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can't take my bougie hobby from me. Yeah. And I say that as somebody who used to ride horses. There's a lot of rich people with horses. There's poor people with horses because they really shouldn't have them and are thus poor because they're they've decided to. They're horse poor. Yeah, they decide to hand over all their income to supporting a horse or many. Yeah. And then there's the people who are disgustingly rich, like the UPS CEO who lives not too far from us and has it's probably one of his many houses, but a very nice horse farm.
SPEAKER_01There's a song by Corblund called uh horse poor.
SPEAKER_00Horse poor, horse poor. Uh I sell one, she buys three more.
SPEAKER_01And it's all about how, like, if they didn't have horses, they would be living. The luxuries we could afford. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um if we were rich and not horse poor. It's a great song. And accurate. Yeah. I I kind of want to sum up our controversy with with two reviews that I read in Goodreads that I think basically say what we fought about pretty intensely.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00It was it was a it was a knockdown drag out fight. Dan, you were pretty upset. Uh, I think you felt gaslit because not everybody agreed with you. No one agreed with me. Yeah. I mean, and that's that's these things are subjective. So here's a one-star review from Alicia, dear constant reader. So dumb. An angry analysis. And my conclusion for this book is, and then it's a thumbs down uh gif of a guy that looks like a Roman emperor. Um, it's probably from a show, I don't know. Here's why I eye rolled myself into a headache while reading Feed. Here we are, 28 years into the future, and the blogging world is the shit. The world has turned to blogs for the reliable truth after the zombie apocalypse. Please tell me why I don't have to explain how dumb that is. Fine? Not a big deal. Okay. The bloggers have broken themselves down to three categories: newsies. Yes, as in the ancient movie of the same title. These folks are straight reporters. Irwins, as in Steve Irwin. These are the action daredevil reporters. Oh, for fuck's sake. It's 28 years into the future. Irwin has been dead now for how many years? But no, we're Erwin. Erwins. I had a dog named Erwin. Anyways, fictionals see bad stories and worse poems. While I'm ranging about pop culture, which seems to have stalled out at this book in 2001, how the hell do we have newsies in Irwins and nobody's heard of Buffy the Vampire Slayer Slayer? Mm-hmm. Sure. I thought they did though. It keeps going. What I found about what I found was really interesting about the reviews about this book in particular were they were essays. Yeah. So it kept going. And it went into the detail about like how overly scientific it was. There weren't enough zombies, so on and so forth. Five stars from Ren. Okay. It's been 24 hours since I finished this book, and I can't stop thinking about it. Since finishing it, I've basically raved to anyone that will listen to me. My family is starting to look at me weirdly. Feed is the most awesome, not a zombie zombie book ever. There are zombies, but it's not just about the zombies. Feed is essentially a political thriller set in a post-apocalyptic backdrop. I loved all the witty characters. Oh my god, they were so not witty. I just have to sidebar comment that. And I was so enthralled by the conspiracies. And the ending, the ending. Words cannot express how much I love this book. I'm looking past all the flaws and giving this book five stars because it deserves it. I didn't think zombies could be done in such an original and refreshing way. Feed is essentially one of my favorites of the year. And then it also keeps going on for like paragraphs.
SPEAKER_01I do agree with that, though. It is, it is a refreshing take on the zombie genre. But also, I think part of the part of the problem is it is a not a zombie zombie book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And other five-star reviews were like exactly that. Like they love that it wasn't a zombie book, but also with zombies. Or they would or the one star would be like, Where are all the fucking zombies? Which is one of our complaints. Here's what I hated. I'm going to start it off, Dan. Then I'm going to let you go on whatever tirage you need to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's brewing.
SPEAKER_00And just know if you love this book, you may want to not. This might hurt your feelings, what Dan's going to say. I'm going to start with it was 608 pages. I think it could have been cut in half and been an excellent fucking story. But there was so much boring fucking detail about literally plugging shit into other shit for the blog.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and the incessant mention of the under 40 pounds and other kinds of rules like that. Yeah. A lot of stuff just got repeated over and over. Over and over. And like I it was painful. And we recently listened to an audiobook, Intercept by TJ Payne, where I was fucking enthralled from start to finish. So I was like, this is not just that it's an audiobook. There is too much detail in here. I'm fucking bored. And I don't want to. I have a new rule for our book club reads, which is they're not allowed to be over 300 pages. Yeah. Because I can't suffer like that. It was like a 16-hour audiobook. I can be like, I'll suffer for one fucking day if I don't like a book, but that is too much to ask of any human being. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, that's I that's my biggest, my biggest gripe is that I I think this required editing. Um, and I've said that about other books that have been, you know, best sellers too. Um I said that about uh what was that book, The Zombie Cat Boys?
SPEAKER_00Oh, Octavia Butler's Something Arc.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was the same thing where like a lot of stuff just got kept kept getting repeated over and over again. I'm like, this should have been condensed like severely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think that I feel the urge to defend that book right now, but see Zombie Alien Cat Boys for that episode.
SPEAKER_01Um, but like both both books, I can say the same thing about both, which is I think they would have been excellent stories if they'd been condensed, so that they're you're not just beating somebody over the head with the same facts over and over again. Like the uh the idea of of the 40 pound rule is is a Chekhov's gun. You know, you when you have uh Chekhov's gun, it's a gun on a desk. And the and if you see it in act one, it's sitting on the desk, you've got to use it by act three. It gets used. Something happens with Chekhov's gun. But in this case, it's like, hey, everybody, remember this gun? I'm gonna put this gun over here. And if it's if you're doing it as like comedy, it could work. Like, here's that gun, everybody. What's gonna happen? I don't know. Like if you're if you're teasing them with the gun, then it can be something interesting. But it was just like constantly reminding us over and over again of this one specific rule that only mattered to explain to the audience that the horse could be infected and the cat isn't. And it and that was in the middle of the book, and it didn't even matter. It's like they could have just brought it up then, and like even then, like the ex like the extensive explanation of how many blood tests you gave a cat. They're like, you're like, I gave it four, four blood tests, one on each paw. Is that enough? Maybe we should do five blood tests and test the tail. And it's like, just fuck it, just tell us if it's infected or not. I don't give a shit how many blood tests you gave your friend and your dad and this cat and the fucking horse. I just don't care. Like, like they could have been like, we blood tested the cat, it's fine. The end. That's that's the the whole sentence. We don't have to have a back and forth of like three paragraphs to describe, yes, this cat is not infected because it's under 40 pounds, which is the rule that we all know because we've been told this every single chapter for six and a half hours of an audiobook. Um, if even if it was 200 pages shorter and it was like a 400 page book, it'd still be a long book, but there's just so much erroneous shit that just needs to be out. And like I think like this is something that we talked about is that like it was probably a better experience reading with your eyes. And then I would have skimmed. You would have skimmed, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I would have skimmed the five to ten pages that were just about setting up the blogging.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't like I don't like skimming, I don't like tuning out of an audiobook. It's not it's not in my nature to turn on an audiobook and not hear 25% of the book, but that's what happened. And I I'd I'd come to from a fugue state, and they'd just be like, they'd be like, oh Georget Masonier. Oh, we barely knew yeah. I'm like, who the fuck is Georgette Masonier? Turns out it's Buffy. I'm like, are they calling is that Georgina Mason's full name? Are they just saying it with a French accent? And no, it was Buffy. Buffy was in it for the most of the book. Most of the book, they're like Buffy, Buffy, Buffy, Buffy, Buffy, Buffy. And then suddenly, I mean, they say it at other points in the book, but I like I was tuned out because I'm like 40 pounds, 40 fucking pounds again. And then I'm like, when I came to and realized that they were talking about Buffy, I'm like, why does Buffy have basically the same exact fucking name as the main character? And I get because of the George. I get that. That's fine. Georgette, fine. Why is her name last name Mason Ye? It's Mason, but with with French accenting.
SPEAKER_00I think you would have been really upset by the name of the child of Edward and Bella in um Definitely, which I forget what it even is, but it's like really long and stupid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but like these are the things that make me feel like I'm being gaslit because uh nobody blinks an eye when I say this. And I'm like, this is a big problem if you're a writer. There's so many names that you could go with, and I I'm okay with Georgia and Georgette having similar names based on the fact that you told us earlier that uh that George Romero was highly influential in everyone surviving, so everybody wanted to be George. That's fine. Pick a different fucking last name, different one. Yeah, I don't know where the influence of the colour is. How about Georgette Thoreau? Perfect, different person. Yeah, no question about it. I'll never get confused. Uh except for the fact that she was called Buffy the whole fucking time. And then you're like, who's Georgette? But I'd be I'd be like, fine. She chose Buffy as her name. She liked it.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna throw out there that you didn't have the emotional experience with this book that some people do. And I think when you have when a book makes you feel something, those kinds of things fall into the background. And we've talked before that you're a detail-oriented story experiencer. Like if something's off in a detail, it will ruin things for you. Well, and I think other people are just, I mean, literally, the five stars said, I'm going to look past all the flaws. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I appreciate that they said that because they acknowledge that there are flaws. Yeah. Um, and I don't like talking badly about somebody's writing. Um, even if they've sold so many copies that they never have to actually listen to me ever. They don't have to care about my opinion, but I don't like saying bad things about people's writing. I just feel like there was a lot of things in here that I I think an editor should have pointed out and it should have been listened to by the writer and it should have been changed.
SPEAKER_00And it wasn't. Yeah. You know, and that is it is what it is in terms of this book. So I I understand how much you couldn't stand it, but I think the other thing to to realize, folks, because you weren't there for this discussion. Dan went on a full you went on a full tirade, Dan. You raged out about this book. And then people were like, but wait a second, Dan, those things aren't aren't true. And you're like, but they are. This didn't make sense. And then it'd be like, well, they didn't make sense because you tuned out. Yeah. And yes, you tuning out is a problem and says something about the book, but also other people experienced it differently than you. And I I I think that we can rage out, but with some diplomacy, because we're not all gonna agree. And I think it's totally fine that people had different experiences than you. No. We're still there.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, I get that people have different experiences, especially since like I did tune out. Um, I I I tuned out because one, I needed to finish this book, so I was just listening to it and I'm trying to get through it. I would have quit this book, like same at least a third of the way in. Cause cu because it was just constantly beating me over the head with erroneous details that I didn't need to know. And I didn't like the characters, I didn't find them to be interesting. I didn't care about their about their mission. I didn't even care about the person that they were following around who was going to be president. Like what like what was he running on? I don't know. Who gives a shit? I'm pretty sure he was a Republican, so fuck him. He seemed like one of the more decent ones, though, in the book. Yeah, he seemed like um I I kept on visualizing uh Mitt Romney.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely a Mitt Romney vibe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he sucks, but like he's he doesn't suck that much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think the the thing that also it also taught me about the kind of zombie book I enjoy.
Taste In Zombie Stories And Genre Lenses
SPEAKER_00So I think that I still I saw somebody describes as like a procedural thriller.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which makes sense. Where like for some people those details are really interesting. For me, I I don't want a defanged zombie. I want the zombie, I want to be fucking scared. And I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of like far into the future societies where they've like fixed things. I'm more in like quote unquote fixed, right? It's obviously a very problematic society still, um, because of how they've managed the virus. And I think that there was like the reason why it was repeated over and over again, I think was a choice to make the point that like this is this occupies so much of your mind constantly. It's like what you're thinking about all the time because it is the world that you have to live in and survive. In the same way that we're all out here thinking about our jobs and that we gotta fucking pay our bills because that is the thing that is between us and death, um, survival or not. And so my point is is like I just personally learned I want something that actually feels like a thriller, which means it's fast-paced. I care from start to finish. I don't need a ton of world building in the sense of great detail. I also, you know what? I'm gonna say it. I like the Lord of the Rings movies better because the level of detail that Tolkien goes into in the books, and yes, I've read them all, was mind-numbing at points. And I did skim it. I was like, I don't want to know any more about the flowers in the fucking hobbit in the in the shire. Like, just let's move on. But that's the good part. Right.
SPEAKER_01For some people, you know, I I just read the Shire parts and then stop. I want to know about the cheese, I want to know about the flowers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like for some people that's what they like. And I think that this is another good example of a book where, like, yes, I think that there are some problems with the book because no book is perfect. It's an early book that Mira Grant wrote, but there's also reasons why a lot of people loved it, and they're for the exact reasons that I didn't love it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_00So I my not loving it doesn't make somebody else loving it more less valid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I I think I think the flaws need to be acknowledged. And to be fair, uh, so um Mira Grant uh also is is a is a pen name of Shannon Maguire. And she has written so many books, so many. Uh but this one and one before that was under Shannon's real name are her first two books. And I I gotta I gotta give that some like I gotta allow this person to have written a book early on that doesn't fit my expectations of what a bestseller is, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean when we were hanging out with Alice a couple weekends ago for Living Dead Weekend, she was giving you a whole list of things that like more fit what you would enjoy, I think, in a zombie book. Yeah. So I don't think we should just write this person off as an author. They're beloved for a reason. Yeah. And they wrote a 608-page book. So like good for you, Mira Grant. That's an incredible accomplishment.
SPEAKER_01And I would like to try something like uh like there's there's a uh there's a I think it's called Feedback. Yeah. Which is um, it's a different group of characters, but it takes place during the same timeline that feed takes place during, but they're like more of a scrappy journalistic group. Like they don't have they don't have what uh what Georgia and her brother have, which is famous parents. Yeah, nepotism. Nepotism. Like basically the wild Dornberries of uh doing news in the zombie apocalypse. Um this is just this is a group that's like like scrapping it out, and that they're more involved with the world and like and it's uh it's a book that was written much later in Shannon's career. So I I when as as you're writing and writing and writing, you learn so much. And you know, like if especially if you have books from earlier on and they are in print and you can read them. A lot a lot of authors look at their old books and are just like, I don't want to tell I don't even want to open it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's how I feel with my early paintings, and I still have some of them, and I'm like, I can't bear to throw them out, but I also can't bear to look to them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Especially that snake painting where I can tell where I gave up on the scales, like I can literally see it, and I remember the moment of just being like, This is too much work, I'm bored.
SPEAKER_01So I would like to give her another chance and read feedback and just like see if see if it addresses uh the the things that bothered me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or a whole other series completely, like there's a lot there. Um, Stitch and Ghost participated in our club, which was amazing to get to meet JD. Yeah. Hi, JD. Hi. They did make a really good point that I wanted to say. And it was, I think, one of the ones we were where I I saw your brain just break a little bit, but it was an excellent point, which is like maybe all of those details about the systems and the the way that we keep safe were there versus like not really having any description. That's another complaint that we had. Like, no description of the actual world. Like, what does it look like? What does the room look like? What is this barn that these horses are in look like? Can't really picture it at all. And Stitching Ghost was like, well, maybe that's really about showing the experience of just existing in one confined, sterile environment on repeat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That those things become sort of soft and faded into the background. So I thought that was a good point. Um, but as a literary like choice, it just was too much for me. Yeah. I still wanted to know what the barn looked like, but not in too much detail. Okay. There's the balance. Sylvester Barzi knocks the balance out of the park. From his first book he ever read to Planet Dead to all the way through to the books I've read that he wrote more recently. He gives enough, not too much. Yeah. I always know where I am in space with Sylvia. Oh, there's definitely too much. There's definitely such a thing as too much. J.R. Tolkien. Yeah. And on Mira Grant's side in this book, it was too much of all of the other, like the science details, which I think I imagine when she was creating those fires and thinking about the world of functioning in it, must have been really enjoyable for her.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's why there's so much of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I definitely see see that in her writing. Like I see where her hyper focus is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Ollie joined our podcast and they said that they're going to, because of this book, they're going to change their writing style to describe every single thing in an RV specifically, but no plot.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So that was great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There are a lot of things that like maybe if I went back and and and reread it, like maybe, maybe these details are there, but like as much as is described about like the the systems in place that keep um that like monitor everyone for outbreaks and keep people from entering places without proper blood tests. Like even just going home, your gar you enter through your garage and you have to take a blood test to get through the door. And if you don't pass the blood test, you're going to go in your own house. Is it a gated community? Is there a fence around it? Is there a wall? Are they in a dome? And even to the point where like they they're interviewing people and they're going to these like conventions and stuff, I'm like, are they in the same city they started in? Or are they in a different place? And I got that answer like halfway through the book when they're when they showed up in like Montana or something. And I'm like, oh, you are on the road. You just described one of your vehicles. Um and like there just wasn't enough spatial description. And like and I I agree with with JD, Reading Ghost, that that can be a like a stylistic choice to like make the reader feel as closed off from reality as as as the person who's experiencing it. But we also saw a similar thing in Zone One where the the style was designed to make you feel like you had uh a limited connection to temporal Place. Yeah. And that's cool. And it was an interesting idea. But like for me, I already feel that way. So I was getting it like double as as hard. And like I couldn't keep track of things because they're they're trying to give me the experience of somebody with post-traumatic stress disorder while I already have post-traumatic stress disorder and have a hard time keeping track of where I am in the world. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think this is where we need to bring the bread back in. It's bread to the other side of bread. Yes. Which is Alice, if this is the if this is the set of stories that inspired you to write, I think that that makes it a five-star for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00I'm really glad that this inspired you so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm happy that people enjoy it. Yeah. And I think it's again, I think it's really important to remember that we're not all gonna like the same things. Yeah. But at the end of the day, if it's if this book is the reason why Alice started writing, fuck yeah. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, also I think there's like things about it that would be more compelling for someone like Alice who has a close sibling relationship where that is like an important thing in her life. Whereas like for me, my familial relationships are all pretty complicated. Um, like there's a I think there's things in a book that either you can relate to or see yourself in or might actually push you away. And like the the closeness of Georgia and Sean was something that pushed me away because I couldn't relate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You're telling me that you wouldn't share a hotel room with your brother? No. With one bed? No.
SPEAKER_00But that's could be fine, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00If that's what that's if that's what your comfort level is, but like, no, not my brother, God. Let's not even go there. We can you can all just read between those lines. Love my I'll I love my family, but I yeah. Okay. Moving on.
Representation Disability Bodies Race Queerness
SPEAKER_00I want to talk about the racist capitalist, misogynistic imperialism of the living dead. There is some interesting representation in this book. First of all, disability. Georgia Mason themselves uh has a chronic visual impairment and light sensitivity because of their level of viral load.
SPEAKER_01This is something that I actually really enjoyed because I also have a severe light sensitivity, probably because of a traumatic brain injury. So something relatable for you. Um so like hers is a bit more extreme where like she if if she takes her sunglasses off outside, she's basically gonna blind herself. Um, I my eyes close in water when I look into the sun. Um I hope you're not looking at the sun. Yeah. Oh, is that what is that what the problem is? You don't look directly at the sun. Oh my god, I thought that's how you get the light into your eyes. Uh but yeah, and also the way that she just like in in that horsebine, it's the first time that she actually went into detail about why her eyes are a big deal. Because she almost had to take her sunglasses off because of because the army showed up and they're like, Take off your sunglasses. And she's like, I'm gonna permanently blind myself.
SPEAKER_00Which is an example of ableism. Yeah. And the only reason why she she didn't end up having to take her sunglasses off is because she basically said, Do you know who I am? Yeah. And the trouble who I was gonna get in. That's a real experience for folks who are disabled, is like being being like, You're fine, you look fine, this is an excuse. I mean, as far back as high school when I couldn't play basketball because I had intense shin splits, splints and Achilles tentonitis. And I'll never forget my phys ed teacher. Who before this, we were outside, not running on hard ground, again, on grass. Playing rugby was like, you just don't like basketball, so you got a doctor's note. Like, I know you just don't want to do this. And like that wasn't true. Yeah. I had my cool Fila tearaway pants. I wanted to be out there. I was tall. I was new, it was a new school for me. Everybody suddenly saw me as sporty, which is hilarious. But I did really do well at rugby. Um, but she that's she looked at me and said, I'm just making excuses. And that's very real. So I thought that that was well done. I appreciated that part of the story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then the then the other half of her eyes, which I also identify with, is she goes into the barn where it's mostly dark, she takes off her sunglasses and she can see almost everything, which is is also my experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's really weird to know that like when we're in the dark, Dan can still see me perfectly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, everything just kind of looks gray.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, body diversity. Georgia is self-described as a fat protagonist. Yeah. Not a moral flaw or a plot problem, just well, that's the body she has. That's kind of nice to hear. Yeah. Not something we see very often. And frankly, for 2010, pretty progressive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Race. We have some named characters of color, but this definitely does not pass the race test. We don't have two talking to each other. Yeah. We don't have one person who has a plot that is like meaningful with their own trajectory. So apparently, further on with the other books, it shows up more. Same with queerness. Um, there are some queer characters, but it's more like ambient, like an ambient vibe, not something that is. Like they exist, but it's not part of the story. Yeah. Uh and generally speaking, there is still a politics of the body. It's, but it's about biosecurity versus identity. Yeah. So bodies are legible as like, are you infected or uninfected? Do you comply or do you not? Are you safe or are you risky? Uh, and that's how people are socially sorted. So there's still that commentary on like socially sorting humans, but it's it doesn't fully get into those pieces as much as it could have. And the way that those things would have intersected in that reality. So um the last thing I really had on my list was just to say that I think it's it was cool to think about like in 2010 when this book was published, that there was already in Mira Grant's mind this world where the traditional news would not be a a trusted source anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Felt very real to our time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think there was a lot of talk about like the like the sanctity of of the press and like journalistic integrity, which you know, in in this in this time is kind of hilarious. Like I can't fault her for making those statements because at the time it I'm sure it felt that way. But now it's like it it's it the the truth is whatever someone says it is. Um and maybe maybe this is an accurate uh depiction of what the future would look like, whereas like independent journalism is where we're getting the best news now. You know, citation needed, depending on who you're getting it from. Um but like the the corporate news is is 100% like pretty much state state run media at this point. Whereas uh if you actually want to know what's going on, either go get news from outside of the country or from independent journalists who get their news from outside of the country.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and are using their or on the ground. Yeah. Uh I think what was interesting though is that Georgia would talk a lot about how she was objective. She was not objective, not at all. Her opinions were very present in the way that she wrote. Um, and I think that that's also a truth about our time. I think I I similar to like whether a book is a hundred percent good or bad, is I don't personally feel like an objective thing you can discern. I don't think that anybody is a hundred percent objective. And the minute you think you are, you're not. Uh so it was a reminder in this time, even the folks that I follow. You know, we talk about echo chambers a lot in our culture right now. They're still showing us their particular lens and perspective. And the reality is there's like a billion different viewpoints of any given situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and so we I think that was a good reminder for me to remember that about myself, even. Like I don't always have the most accurate view. I have the view I have, but that doesn't mean that it's the full picture.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I try to remind myself of that a lot too.
SPEAKER_01Um, especially when especially when you can see how the other half lives and you're and you're just baffled at how they believe the things they believe, despite there being so many facts that prove them wrong. But then you you start to wonder, like, am I also believing something that's unbelievable?
SPEAKER_00We talked about this a lot in when I used to teach, which is how do you know something is true? And people have different answers for that question. So a fundamentalist Christian in the South knows something is true if it's in the Bible, and their pastor said it, and everybody in their family says it. And to question that is to question fundamental truth and your access to being a good person, going to heaven, being safe. Uh, and so I think if that's also a thing to remember is like people have different ways of understanding what is true for them. So not only is it about like what they're looking at, but it's how they filter that world. So if somebody is a fundamentalist Christian and how they know something is true is because the Bible's in it, it does not fucking matter what anyone else says. It just doesn't. And that sucks for all the rest of us who are oppressed because of those viewpoints. But I think it's an important thing to remember that we are not all actually using the same measuring stick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_00At least with Imperial and metric, like it's still the same amount of space. You can convert it. I can be like, okay, three feet is about a hundred centimeters-ish. I can do that. But I can't, I can't convert like the Bible has this one line about sodomy with, well, there's tons of evidence in science that like across all species, heterosexuality is not the norm, penultimate, everybody's like that, and transness is an intersex experiences, and like how we reproduce is not based on just two genders, and we can see it across all these different cultures. None of that matters if your if your basic fundamental belief of what something is true is is the Bible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's my random rant. I don't know why I went there. Um, you know, the Shipibo figured out how to put plants together and make magical medicine that heals people. And if you ask how they know, it's because the plants talk to them. Yeah. That's a totally different way of knowing what's true. I mean, I get that. Yeah, I do too. Because we've had our own experience. Yeah. Uh yesterday. Yeah. With legal things. I also want to just name briefly that I think we are living in a time where the idea of safety is basically
Biosecurity Surveillance And Trading Liberty
SPEAKER_00an equivalent with surveillance and control. And we're being sold that by the US government pretty hard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you can see it. It was a lot of the test bed test ground being Palestine, where like Palestinian bodies were completely in for like secured, held back, going through checkpoints all the time. And we're seeing it again now where like surveillance is the way that we're supposed to be safe. Everything all of our biodata is for sale. Everything that we do should be tracked. If we're not being tracked, then we're doing something illegal. Uh, so there is still some real resonance, even if I don't love you know the whole plot of the book. There's definitely resonance around the critique of our society today. What are you looking up, dear?
SPEAKER_01Uh uh, there's this there's this quote. I w I've I don't know who it's from, and I tried to search who it was from, but I don't have internet right. So that's weird. Um, but the quote is if you would trade liberty for safety, you will get neither.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I I truly believe that because we're we're in a we're in a world where um AI data centers are going up and people are opposing it, and the the billionaires are like, but why don't you want progress? Um and it's because uh people are like, Because you want to use AI to watch me poop. Yeah, shit in the bathroom. And there's fucking flock cameras that like as I drive by it's gonna scan my face and my credit report.
SPEAKER_00And the Yeah, I can't even, you know, we tried to buy tickets for a concert and we had to go on incognito mode so we wouldn't be getting fucked over based on our algorithms.
SPEAKER_01They want to make us so that when you walk through Walmart and you're just looking for like a uh some fucking toothpaste, the toothpaste um price tag changes based on like what it knows about you on social media. What it thinks the highest amount that it that it thinks that you will pay. And like that's this surveillance it promises safety, but safety from who? From a fucking tyrannical government that wants to come to your house and beat the shit out of you and throw you in prison and then send you to a third world country so they can be tortured.
SPEAKER_00Or disappear you because bad about the government. Disappear you because you're a Black Lives Matter activist, you get arrested, and then suddenly you can't be found. You were taken away from your own state prison and put somewhere else and then disappeared, and then people found you again, and now nobody knows where this person is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's that's supposedly safety. We're being saved from that person. Ice. Yeah. That's following people everywhere, has the right now to enter our home without a warrant. Yeah, good luck with that. I know, Dan. So yeah, there's there's definitely some really good things to ponder in this book. And for those of you who loved it, I hope that you don't hate us. And my formal, I already gave Alice their formal apology at Living Dead weekend because I do know that it was pretty intense to hear how much some of us, aka you and me, did not like this book. Yeah. But I do love you and I love your writing, and I respect what you think is important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I I told I told Alice this, but like, you know, I I know that she loves Mira Grant, but I think that she's ten times the writer, at least of what I saw in this book. Um, sorry, Mira. If you if you're listening to this right now, I don't mean to to shit all over your work. Well, I mean, I I am, but I don't mean to, and I don't want to. Um being honest. But yeah, I can't I can't lie about how I feel about this book. And I I do want to give your work another shot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and again, we're just two people. And I will gladly admit that if if if I read something of Mira Grant's and I think it's good, I will, I will come here immediately and tell everyone the excellent news.
SPEAKER_00The feed is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'll give you the feed. I'll feed you that news.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But it it turns out that we're just one of 7,000 people who sort of is split down the middle on this book, and that's okay.
Ratings Recommendations And Next Reads
SPEAKER_00On that note, Dan, how many Zeds out of 10 would you give this book? Oh boy. Um Do you want me to go first? Because I know it'll be better than yours. I'm gonna give it a solid six.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Um, yeah, I was thinking somewhere around a five. Because I want to be clear, I think the story was good, and there's a lot of things that I like about it. It's just unfortunately hard to enjoy the things that I like about it when there's so many things about it that really irritated me. And that makes it a solid five, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And for many people, it's a 10 out of 10. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh, and if if you gave it a 10 out of 10, I'm really happy that you read a book that gave you joy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And if you if you like us um have similar zombie book needs, may I recommend Jill Ann Davies, the Carrie Mason story, starting with Due North. It is also a science fiction world with very quality science behind the virus, very high stakes for the individuals that's more than just zombies, but also really great zombie scenes that I personally feel like should be a New York Times bestseller. Yeah. Uh so yeah, if if this didn't do it for you, I check out Jillen Davies. And honestly, if you like this book, you probably still like Jillan Davies' book now that I'm thinking about it. So, like, just go read that. If this is if you like the science-based um sort of sci-fi zombie mashup.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Actually, I have one more thing to say that Alice and I talked about. Alice has the view that all zombie books are sci-fi books, which blew my mind because I don't think that at all. I don't think that either. But it's a like it's a lens, right? Like that's how she thinks about it. And her books also have like a clear um virus story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I think that there's a lot of zombie stories that are sci-fi, and I agree with that. But um, if if your focus is not is is not the origin of the virus or understanding the virus, um, then it's it's probably more likely a different genre. Like The Walking Dead, with the exception of in the show when they go to the CDC and get exposition about why the zombie virus does what it does, with the exception of that, which was very sci-fi, the rest of it's a western. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Even though they end up heading northeast.
SPEAKER_01Still a western.
SPEAKER_00Uh The Last of Us is more of a western with the heading west thing. Yeah. Last of us is also a western.
SPEAKER_01It was a western. Yeah. So is a little bit of science? I think The Last of Us could be a little bit sci-fi.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Maybe like 10%. I just hadn't thought of it that way. Cause I think when I think of sci-fi, again, this is my lens, I think like outer space.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00For the most part. That's kind of my my um the thing my brain goes to. Well, I think we're at the end of this episode. We have to pick our next book club book, and we'll be posting soon on Patreon with some options for folks to vote on. I don't even know what those options are, but I think I'm gonna include TJ Payne's Intercepts because it is an odd, it meets our represent it meets our goals. So we have uh a book selection criteria of now, this is a new one, under 300 pages. Yeah. Um, or thereabouts. We want to have at least 50% of selections centering authors or protagonists from groups that are historically underrepresented in zombie fiction. This book is written by a man, but we haven't, well, we had a black man, I guess. So I think we're hitting our 50%.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00It's human-created work only. So we maintain our no AI for generative writing or cover art, and we need to have an audiobook. So those are the things if you're thinking about books you want to suggest. Um, and we will kill your darlings if we don't like them. So just know that in advance. What book do you want to suggest, Dan?
SPEAKER_01Um, this is a book that I actually read like six years ago. Uh it's it's part of a trilogy. It's called the Deadland Saga. Um, I think it fits uh fits all the criteria, and I think it'll serve it'll satisfy the zombie apocalypse cravings that people have. Um and I gen I genuinely think it's a good book.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll add to the list. I actually don't even know if Intercepts is under 300 pages, but I feel like it is. So we'll have to look at that to make sure we're we're uh adhering to our own rules. But for now, everybody, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's uh stay alive. And human. And human. Uh don't don't die yet. Try not to. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if you do, uh don't come back.
SPEAKER_00If you do, please make sure you haven't had the setting where you you can be like regenerated via as an AI version of yourself. I don't want like a creepy oh yeah, optic a creepy ghost version of you that posts on the internet. But I would like to know. I guess that's the thing. I think there are like a thing you can sign up and say, I should probably change this because I don't think it's you for mine. But if I die, like you get access to my account.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So and if Dan and I die, you'll probably know because we'll just go completely dark.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So if that happens, we're dead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye bye. Bye.