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Laurie Calcaterra and The Golden City PotPR Issue 8 | Zombie Book Club Ep 152
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Comic creator Laurie Calcaterra joins us to break down the world of Path of the Pale Rider; her genre-bending indie comic where death isn't a virus or magic, it's just broken. The "living impaired" keep rotting, brains decay at different rates, and even animals rise again, turning every meal and moral choice into a survival equation. We dig into what makes this series unlike anything on the shelf: QR code scavenger hunts, hidden videos, riddles, sign language, and layered clues that reward rereaders — plus a frank conversation about why real innovation keeps living in indie comics while big studios recycle the same tired stories.
Then we crack open Issue 8 and step inside the Golden City, where Jude St. Clair finally arrives at the place that's haunted the series since page one. Hot showers. A buffet. Showgirls and tuxedos. It sounds like heaven after five years on the road... and that's exactly the problem. We unpack the auditorium sequence, debate the symbolism of the split angel portrait, theorize about who (or what) broke death, and wrestle with the ugliest question the series keeps asking: what are people truly willing to trade for comfort when the world outside is falling apart? Plus, Laurie previews the upcoming trade paperback Kickstarter for Issues 5–8.
Guest & Relevant Links
Laurie Calcaterra / Path of the Pale Rider
- Website: pathofthepalerider.com
- Instagram: @path_of_the_pale_rider
Kickstarter Campaigns
- Trade Paperback Issues 5–8 Kickstarter (from show notes): kickstarter.com — Path of the Pale Rider Trade Paperback 5–8
- Issues 1–8 Kickstarter: kickstarter.com — Path of the Pale Rider Issues 1–8
Zombie Book Club Links
- Join us on on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/ZombieBookClub
- ZBC Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zombiebookclubpodcast/
- ZBC Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/710957975263518/
- Zombie Book Club Email: ZombieBookClubPodcast@gmail.com
Welcome
Welcome And The Gold Rule
SPEAKER_01to the zombie book club, the only book club where the book is gold. I'm Dan and I don't have any gold. But I'm writing a book about a zombie apocalypse where the golden rule applies. Whoever has the gold makes the rules. I don't have any gold. That's the golden rule, right? I think so.
SPEAKER_02I mean, kind of an art society. So yeah. And I'm Leah, and today we have everybody's zombie, Fruit Ninja, Mother of Dragons, original Zombie Wing Queen, and creator of one of our all-time favorite comic series, Path of the Pale Rider, back in the house. Welcome, Lori. Been a while. Hi, everybody. I'm back.
SPEAKER_01Lori's back. Back again.
SPEAKER_02Back again. Guess who's back?
SPEAKER_01Lori Calcutta.
SPEAKER_03I'm so excited to be here with you guys. Been missing your faces and um life is just busy. I know you guys are busy. I've been busy running around, so it's just kind of what happens.
SPEAKER_01But I think you need to make issues faster. That way we have more episodes together.
SPEAKER_02Well, we'll talk about that. Lori needs a Renaissance Patreon. Yeah. Or not Patreon, Patreon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_02A very rich person to allow you to just go full force.
Dreaming Of An Art Patron
SPEAKER_02What would you do if you had if you had an unlimited supply of money and you could make anything you wanted, Lori?
SPEAKER_03I would be making a lot of different comics, not just Path. Because I could push out a few different stories that I have. Um because I could hire multiple artists.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it could it could kind of be more like a studio.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
unknownThat would be awesome.
SPEAKER_02The Calcatera Calc oh wow, I can't talk. Calcatera studio.
SPEAKER_03It's kind of like the Italian Renaissance, right? Because that's where all those patrons were. Like Brickwit, uh the Medit can't say it. Medit Medit Mendinski. I quit.
SPEAKER_02I don't even know what you're trying to say.
SPEAKER_03It's like uh Medici or something like that. That was like the Patreon family that funded all of like the Italian artists.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, you'd have somebody bankrolling your art, and all you had to do was be an absolute genius and produce nothing but masterpieces. Which is Lori Calcatera. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I would love that to be true. It would be wonderful.
SPEAKER_02That's true. But you know how there's like those sugar daddy websites and sugar mama websites for dating? There could be there should be like an art. You don't know about this, dude. No, I don't. You don't watch enough reality TV, clearly.
SPEAKER_01You know, I was single for a very long time. I could have benefited from one of these websites.
SPEAKER_02You could have got a sugar mama.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_02Uh but I feel like there could be like an art, there should be like an artist who rich person, sugar arty, art, sugar arty. Yeah. There's gotta be a better brand.
SPEAKER_03Like some rich person that just loves comics and can and can connect with uh indie creators and help us create more independent love. Just it's good stuff in indie. It's just that we had the funds to do it, then we could compete with like Marvel DC and Image, etc.
Why Big Studios Keep Recycling
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like you always say on Tuesday morning brew, uh indie art is where the actual innovation is happening and the creativity and not just the like, let's recycle this exact same story for the 80th time.
SPEAKER_03That's a huge pet peeve of mine. So yeah, if you've watched the Tuesday morning brew, you've heard me get on my soapbox, talk about how annoyed I am with the recycled Hollywood we have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it's been that way for a really long time. Like, especially like Marvel has just made like an empire out of recycling old shit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, well, a lot of times they're taking it from the comic series to the big screen, and it was like, I I still like my blockbuster summer movie, but it's like I don't need prequel to Quiet Day. Was it Quiet Quiet Day? There was one with John Krasinski.
SPEAKER_01John Krasinski in the office?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Have you not seen the one that he wrote where it was like the monsters can hear sound? Oh, the quiet place. Quiet Place, thank you. I know I was calling it the wrong thing. Thank you. Right? I like the prequel. And then they made a prequel. Oh, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I like the prequel though. I don't remember the prequel. It was um the the woman with a cat, and she's uh dying from uh terminal disease, going living in a home, goes on a field trip. That was fun, and that's when the aliens drop and do it in New York City.
SPEAKER_03I didn't bother to see it because again, it's like who asked for this?
SPEAKER_01Who asked for a third It's good though, you should watch it.
SPEAKER_03But John Krasinski was like a one and done movie. That was his intent. And he even gave interviews about this where he was like, I wrote it as a standalone. I had no intention of making a sequel. The studio came to me and said, There's gonna be a sequel whether you're in it or not.
SPEAKER_01Well, he was already dead.
SPEAKER_03So I know, but my point was like, do you want to write it or do you want someone else to write it? Because we're gonna make it with or without you. That's so gross.
SPEAKER_02It's another example of like, see, this is the bad sugar art daddy. Yes. You need a sugar art daddy that says, You have creative freedom and carte blanche. You don't want the art sugar daddy of the studios that's like, we're gonna do this with or without you, and string along a story that's like goes like The Walking Dead post-season nine. Why? Yeah. All of it just got progressively worse.
SPEAKER_03Well, why do we have 12 spin-offs of Walking Dead? It's too much. It's too much. Season eight was the last good season. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Fear of the Walking Dead was bad for a really long time before that. Like they should have looked at Fear of the Walking Dead and been like, hey, this isn't working. Should we not do this to everything else that we do?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but it's all about that paycheck.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's all they care about. That's the problem. They got rid of the artists. They were no longer art sugar daddying.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01They were instead like, we're just gonna hire a bunch of mindless drones that can put words on paper and then we'll make a show out of that.
SPEAKER_03And they're selling a product, is what it is.
SPEAKER_01This might be going off the rails a little bit. Oh, yeah. I just recently started watching Tales of The Walking Dead, and man is it dumb. Anyone surprised in this little circle? There's a couple, there's a couple decent episodes, but like episode two. People who have seen it, you know what I'm talking about. The fucking groundhog's day shit. Like, what is it was like the person who wrote it had never actually seen an episode of The Walking Dead, and they're like, oh, what is it? Like Black Mirror or something? It's horrifying.
SPEAKER_03And they uh they didn't think that's why India is so great, is because you get you get none of that. You don't have the executives, you don't have the all the producers with their hands in the pot. Like, get out of the kitchen, let me tell my story, right? And so that's why India is so great. So if you know we could find the funds and people would just get out of our way, yeah, get really something.
SPEAKER_02Something I dream about sometimes. I might have told you this before, Lori. I think, or maybe I don't, it's my brain. Who knows? I think it was you, maybe not,
A Co Op For Indie Creators
SPEAKER_02but I'll say it again. I wish that we could create some kind of like business cooperative where somehow we can um make sure everybody gets health insurance, get your basic needs met, share profits in some way that makes sense based on who's producing what, and then we can like have each other's back instead of it being so hard out there. But I don't know how to do that because I'm not a business person. Hey, are there any business cooperative experts out there? Yeah, contact me. Um I feel like everybody knows you,
Laurie Calcaterra Origin Story
SPEAKER_02Lori. But I but just in case we have some new listeners, welcome to the show. Can you give us the like who is Lori Calcutera and what is Path of the Pale Rider?
SPEAKER_03Of course. And if you're new to this show, congratulations on finding the best zombie podcast on the internet. Because this is where it's at. And you just need to subscribe right now and listen to everything and go back through the backlog, and there's a ton of fun stuff there. So, Lori Calcutera, where did I, where do we even start?
SPEAKER_02So it's the worst interview question. So tell me about yourself.
SPEAKER_03I'm a writer of sorts. I if you heard my introduction, I do all sorts of crazy things. I I I I broke the mold. I'm not in a box. I write things, I smash fruit, um, I write riddles, I act in short films, I do martial arts, um, I I I I don't know. I bake bread, I make hot sauce. I I just didn't crazy, craziest person. Makes her own cheese. I I am starting to make cheese, yes. Uh in fact, I got a book on the joy of cheese making. And it's a lot harder than I thought.
SPEAKER_01I've I've heard that it's not easy to make cheese.
SPEAKER_03No, well, I was like, I can make like cottage cheese, and I was like, I can make like um like cream cheese, and I can make like stuff like that, like super easy. And I was like, I wonder how hard it would be to make like a cheddar cheese, you know, or a brie. And so I'm reading the book, and it's like chemistry and math problems, and I'm like, I'm out.
SPEAKER_01It's it's science, it's trusting the process.
SPEAKER_03It's it will and it's like a bunch of equipment I don't have, and you know, so it's like, well, maybe someday, but not right now. So too much going on. So um I started out as a martial artist. I was uh doing choreography for a production company in Detroit in 2017. Um, that's where I got bit with the writing bug. Um, started writing um screenplay in short form online content for them and came up with this crazy idea of what would happen if death was broken. Now I love zombie genre, I love horror, sci-fi, westerns. I mean I like a lot of stuff. And I crammed it all into Path of the Pale Rider. So it is a world that um was modern times. In fact, I wrote the story back in 2018 as a full-length movie script. So the script was done by 2019. And I wrote the apocalypse March 2020, and I get blamed all the time for the mess we're in, and it's not my fault.
SPEAKER_02I blame you, Lori, for the COVID I had a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_03You started it all. I just predicted the date and then the aftermath. I didn't know what was coming. Um, so it's a modern world where something happens and death is broken. So that means we have the undead, but I what do I call them? Living impaired, because it's not a virus, it's not, it doesn't make people that rabid, feral creature that wants to eat brains and consume flesh. But as the people rot, their brain rots. And so we have basically this um population of ever chaotic and it could be they could be violent, they could be forgetful, they could be um catatonic, and it hits everybody differently depending on the parts of their brain that are still active. So it's like dementia and fast forward. Okay. While you rot. While you rot, yeah. So you don't get the you don't get the perks of living forever and like being beautiful and not aging. Nah, you get none of that. You get to rot and you get to um know that you are decaying until you're too far gone. But since it's death, that's the problem, it's everything that's alive. So now we get things like undead cows and undead bears and undead insects and fish, and um, it creates a world that is a powder keg. Uh, because what are we eating? Um where are we going? Where what do we do with these people? What is the government doing? How do we react? And um I kept the world very, very grounded. So I never really say how you should act in this world because everybody's gonna do it differently based off of their lived experience. So that's what you're getting yourself into with Path.
SPEAKER_02That is a beautiful synopsis. I was trying to explain. I have a friend visiting right now, and I was uh, she knew we were gonna have this episode, and I was like, all right, here's the like hard beats of the show. And it was pretty much I'm like, I'm really proud of myself. I basically said what you said.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. You know, I have a question that I haven't considered until just now. Death is broken, but is life also broken? Are are new lives being created?
SPEAKER_03New lives are being created. Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a problem.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you can't just bury the the broken death people. I mean, you could, that would be very mean. Some I'm sure some people do. Well, we know what happens.
SPEAKER_03How many pieces they're in, but yeah, like if for those who've read the book, um, issue seven was kind of like I hate to say it, the final solution.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh it wasn't happy.
SPEAKER_02No. And I want to just give some shout-outs to previous episodes. I feel like we should list all of our, like, it's gotta be a dozen now. I actually want to do the math and figure out how many we've had you, how many we've had you on. We adore you.
SPEAKER_01It's getting up there, though. It's like it might be like five or six for sure.
SPEAKER_02Not including Zombie Ween, the uh internet beef one. There's so many. But anyways, we I think like if if you're new to Path of the Pale Rider and Lori Calcutera, go check out now and you could listen to it in order um some of the other episodes and go get issue one. How can they find you? Before we start getting into spoiler territory, I want to just make sure people can find your your work if they're brand
Where To Start With Path
SPEAKER_02new.
SPEAKER_03So I'm all over the place. Um, I have a website, it's pathofthepale.com. You can purchase all of the previous comic books on there. Um uh the first trade paperback is on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. So if you would prefer to go that way and get free shipping and international shipping, Amazon is the way. Um the second trade paperback will be available on Amazon probably sometime this summer because we're formatting that and getting ready to run that campaign. So that should be there shortly. Um, I'm also on Rolling Squid Bones. Um, I have a previous Kickstarter for issues one through eight that still has late pledges open. So you can get on there.
SPEAKER_02In fact, go do that. I lost what? I was just saying, go do that if you have not read this yet.
SPEAKER_03So which is bizarre because I logged in today and that's exactly what happened. I had someone back the digital ketchup tier today. Wow. So um I'm gonna send them a link and they get to binge read issues one through eight. I mean, what a joy.
SPEAKER_02Because that was the that is the beautiful torture of Path the Pill Rider. If you've been in it since I think we found you in issue three. I think I got to read three together, and then had to be like, okay, now I have to wait. And that you know hurt. That was early too.
SPEAKER_01That was like 2023.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and my writing style for people that are new to me, I'm the queen of cliffhanger. So we end almost every issue with, oh my god, Lori. Why what's what is what is next? Like, what are we doing? What does that mean? You know? Uh I answer questions though, so it's like if you stick with me, um, the answers, I mean like, and we are very close to the answer of what broke death. Uh you could figure it out in eight. If you read eight, you could you could make some leaps there and figure it out. Um, if you when you read nine, nine is huge, full of information. Um, if you can't figure out nine, I slap you in the face in ten. The beginning of ten is like, here's the answer.
SPEAKER_01Don't let that happen. Okay. Just figure it out by the end of nine. Or don't say anything.
SPEAKER_03Yes. I think people can, and I think they will. Um, but I know there's always somebody because I because I think I think I'm being obvious, but sometimes I'm just not being obvious enough. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, that's what makes the I think that's what makes any really good story great is that you can go back and read it or watch it, and it's even better. And I think Path of the Pale Rider is in that category because some things you might not pick up on the first time you pick, then you're like, oh my God, like this makes so much sense. And then also you have such an
QR Codes Riddles And Hidden Lore
SPEAKER_02interactive way. Like you've got your QR codes, you have sign language, you have riddles that I never am able to solve because I'm not good at that.
SPEAKER_03Now, I gotta say though, um, if people have been solving the riddles all along, they have more information about what's coming.
SPEAKER_02So Dan, they need you to go do your homework for us.
SPEAKER_03For people that don't know, the back cover of every issue is uh is a riddle to solve. And a lot of times it takes you to interactive places. So like videos on YouTube, um, hidden wikis. I have a working phone number um that you can call and it there's information there. Um, there's one of them like if you solve it, a postcard shows up from one of the characters. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Daniel. I think. Did you solve the one with us with the one of us solved it? It must have been you because it couldn't possibly be me. Which one? I remember reading Lord of the Rings and being like, just tell me the answer to this riddle. I'm not gonna figure it out myself.
SPEAKER_03Um, some of them are not hard, like issue issue three, it was like a QR code scavenger hunt. So you just scan the QR codes and it takes you to a bunch of different fun videos. I think the first one I did was a Rickroll, and which I thought was hilarious. Um, but one of the videos on there is like you encounter a hidden video from Path of the Pill Rider World. So there's some clear stuff out there.
SPEAKER_01Our friend Ollie said that you were the first person um like in two decades that successfully rickrolled them.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I was just like, I didn't I never saw that coming.
SPEAKER_02I feel like that should be an award.
SPEAKER_03I I I Rickrolled the fandom, I think a couple years ago on April Fool's Day, where I was like, I went on a podcast and someone, you know, someone deduced the answer and they spoiled the whole thing. Like, oh my god, I'm so upset. Like, I put a link, I was like, you tell me if I can recover from this. Everybody clicked on it and then rickrolled them.
SPEAKER_02I was Rickrolled that day, I remember. Um, but this is the person who loves to drink the tears of their readers. So I know you love it.
SPEAKER_01Professional tear tear drinker. Yeah. You you had a water bottle up. Is that filled with tears?
SPEAKER_03Yes. Life is too short. You gotta have fun. And I just I think it's so funny. Um, and I mean, like that carries through to Path too, because when you're reading our book, it's some of the things are so dark and so serious, but then like you have Dwayne Fink that's like, is that a sky full of beetles?
SPEAKER_02Like Yes, yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03What are those beetles called again?
SPEAKER_02Blister Beetles. Blister Beetles. Oh gross. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no thanks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, I don't think I've ever asked you this. When did you realize you were gonna make it so interactive? Like, was that always part of the vision, or at what point were you like, oh, I this needs to be more than just like the typical comic?
SPEAKER_03It was right from the beginning. Um, and it was this is so funny, Neil Patrick Harris. I I'm a fan, I love him. And um, he has a deck of cards that you can purchase from his website. And the deck of cards is just a regular poker card deck until you look at it and it's full of riddles. Oh wow. And so, like the first card that you look at, if you solve the riddle, it takes you to a secret website, which then you have to solve more riddles. And so it was just so fun to see this interaction, and um, that's just kind of stuff that I love. And so I always want to create stuff that A, I want to read, and B, I'm gonna enjoy. And so if it's something that's interactive that I can spend, you know, ten dollars to buy a comic book is pricey compared to Marvel and DC. So if you can get your money's worth by not only reading the comic, but then going through and scanning the QR codes and getting all the innuendo that's built in there, finding Waldo in issue number seven.
SPEAKER_02And then that was fun and took me a while.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, did you? Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_02It took me, it took me a while.
SPEAKER_03But on the way, I was like, yeah, that's that's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_02It took me a while, but I will say that it was a really enjoyable search because all of the different characters in the canyon.
SPEAKER_03That was 100% uh Matt Chambers, who's our longtime colorist. I told him to have fun and he went and put those things in there and he sent me the pages, and I was like, cool. And I was looking at it, you know, because it's a double splash page and it's something to behold. And I just spent some time looking around and I was like, that's freaking Waldo. Like, who didn't even know you found Waldo accidentally? I was like, no, you did I all of it was intentional, but I didn't write that into the script. I wasn't but it's funny because I had thought about that at one point where I was like, ew, this would be such a fun thing if like Waldo was like, where's Well though, kind of thing. And he like he intuitively put it in there. And I was like, this is so freaking funny. Um, and then I started looking some more, and I found all sorts of things. Freddie Krueger, Scooby-Doo, um, NES Jason, like so many just ridiculous things that he put in there, and I just spent the day laughing. So I mean again, it's just how we are. But I I feel like um with all that other stuff, um, you can really spend time, you know, with the book, and it's not like you read through the 24 pages and ah, I'm done, you know. So I don't know. I enjoy that. I like putting all the extra stuff into it. It kind of sets us apart. It does.
SPEAKER_02And it makes it really, really fun. I was just listening to like, I know I'm always requesting posters from you, but I'm obsessed with art. I'm like, oh, I want I mean, I guess I could just buy an extra copy of the issue and open it up and frame it. But that that doubles that spread of the canyon is like so epic.
SPEAKER_03I love it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I need to make that. But it was like, when do I make that? Because it's a huge spoiler too. True.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_03Um, because uh Gilbert and I had talked about that. So at some point I I I should make art from that that people can collect. And Leah, if you ever want a poster, I can make special. Oh my just ask me. I'm gonna cry.
SPEAKER_02You can definitely uh make all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03You gotta ask.
SPEAKER_02I'll do it. I have so many, I feel like I could make a special order. Um, or like we could do maybe when you get to like what would you consider your your next big milestone episode? Is it 10?
SPEAKER_03Uh 10. I mean, like the next biggest thing is I could I consider the next four issues kind of this it's the next arc, next part of the arc, right? So 12 is the end of the first arc, but I can print these anytime. And Dan was gonna say something, and I'm sorry I cut you off.
SPEAKER_01Was I? I don't remember anymore.
SPEAKER_03I think you were.
SPEAKER_02So custom order art. That's what we were talking about if that helps. Yeah, I'll make it for you. Sure. Okay. Well, we got we'll talk about this more after because I've there's been many. I know I need to go back through all of them, be like this one, that one, and this one. And then you can I can totally make a custom order for you because I would love to have that uh around our zombie bunker. I do not have enough. I've got a lot of big James and Big James the Bear art that I enjoy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's another Big James back there, too.
SPEAKER_02I have three. Oh, I yeah. Oh, the big jude. Yeah. And then can you see your Path the Pale Rider corner? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I see it. Yeah. There's the place back right there. Yeah. Sad pancake, my little tiny buddy is there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I know we're getting two more of those. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_01And Leah's gonna buy both of them.
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry, Leah. There were animals in the last Kickstarter,
Fan Figures And Kickstarter Chaos
SPEAKER_02right? No, no, no. So they're not yet. The ones that I've been seeing on Facebook, when are they coming? Uh, they're coming.
SPEAKER_03I just he is so busy. So that is my that's my friend Eric. He goes by Zombie13, and his passion is to make these um like action figures and figurines. He'll buy pre-made ones, and it's like the sad pancake. That was just a dog from like the tractor supply store. So good. And he he loves Path of the Pill Rider. He has done all of those without telling me. So what happens is I'll go on podcasts, is like you guys know, during when I'm live on Kickstarter, just to promote and to advertise, and then he'll surprise me with all of this stuff. And so I go on his show and he's like, I've made 12 figurines, and I'm like, oh my god. Like it's just I'm just blown away by how talented this guy is. So he has this whole petting zoo of undead animals. Um, and I'm just like, Where's mine? Where's mine? Like all I have is a dead pancake. Where's mine?
SPEAKER_01When do you get to keep one?
SPEAKER_03Uh but he'll go through them all eventually. But his his uh real job, he works for he's in the medical field where he's IT, and so he's always on call. And so that man, I don't know how he does it. Like he survives with no sleep. Um, and so I would feel terrible being like, Can you get on that, please? I'd like you to make me some more figurine.
SPEAKER_01People keep asking me when we're gonna get more sad pancakes. So get to work. I mean, it's the llama for me. Or was it an alpaca?
SPEAKER_03There's uh there's a llama. Yeah, there's a donkey, there's a he made a capy barra. He calls it no cap capy bear because the top of his skull is missing. You can see his brain. Um, so the next two we're getting is the pig, which everybody names Kevin Bacon. Perfect. And the cat, right? And the cat. No, we're not, we're getting the cat as his sticker. But he has already said, like, he's already reacted because I released the sticker and he was like, I know what I have to do. He's on it. He understands his assignment. And we're getting the chicken. Yes. And so we're gonna have a tier called Green Eggs and Ham.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm gonna have to set an alarm again. I remember the last time when the sad pancake went. Was that a that's a shoe six? Sad pancake, yeah. That was two champagnes ago. Yeah. Yeah. When that one came out, I was somewhere with a bunch of people, and I was like, look, you all need to understand that when this time comes, I have to get a sad pancake. And they're like, what are you talking about? So I will also be setting my alarm on my calendar for this. Yes. I was like, don't talk to me. It's really important that I check out as quickly as possible. I can add other things later. I just need to get a sad pancake, and I did. Um, but I think it says a lot about your story that people feel inspired to make um creative art around it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, speaking of um of of special tier uh rewards, I heard that maybe there might be a new Kickstarter tier reward.
SPEAKER_03Shall we call it the Brandon Special? I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_01I think so. Just be like, I think you're for you, Brandon.
SPEAKER_03I need to somehow get a link in there where it sends people to the song. I haven't posted it, but I need to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It needs to be posted.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. Yes, there will be body pillow covers with Jude St. Clair on it.
SPEAKER_02I mean, a lot of people think he's quite attractive too. So I think it's for more than Brandon.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, that I've already been told, like, oh, I'm getting that. I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna get one because I I need a body pillow and this will give me an excuse to put the cover on it. And Dan's not a jealous guy. I just need something to put to wrap my whole body around. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The only thing I don't like about it is that it takes up um the part of the bed where I sleep.
SPEAKER_03Giant pillow. I know. I have a body pillow as well.
SPEAKER_02I am tempted to, I want to do this either now and I'm gonna give you dealer's choice, Lori. Do we talk about Dan and Mai's latest theory for why death is broken now? Or do we talk about issue eight first and then end with our latest.
SPEAKER_03Let's do that. And I think that your guesses um probably relate to what happened in issue eight. That is very true.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm sticking to my original. Well, don't say it, you gotta do it at the end. I'll tell you later.
SPEAKER_02I'm ready. You're ready. Oh, sorry. I lost my notes. There they are. Okay.
Issue Seven Escape To Issue Eight
SPEAKER_02So before issue, set it up, set it up for us, Lori. At the end of issue seven, where do we see our friend Jude St. Clair?
SPEAKER_03Yes, Jude St. Clair has just gotten out of shall we say escaped. He really escaped the undead retirement community, which um he didn't really want to go in there, but he kind of uh he made up his mind to go in um to help this group of undead uh banditos, this camp of undead people that were right on the edge of this undead retirement community, that nobody knows what's happening in there, they know that something bad is going on, um, and they can't prove it because everybody that goes in doesn't come back out. And so a deal is struck that if Jude goes in and he kind of blows the story wide open, um, that this undead bandito, Miguel Blanco, would then take him to the Golden City where he's been trying to go. Okay, so issue seven, he goes in. Um, you find out very quickly that it is nothing like they expected. It's not like the brochure.
SPEAKER_02It's not a nice retirement center, y'all.
SPEAKER_03No, there's no couple board. No, it's just the Grand Canyon full of dead bodies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the face when I told Molly that, my friend, just before we got talking to you, the look on her face.
SPEAKER_03But I mean, okay, so how I came up with that was like, okay, what would the government do? What's the easiest answer of where to put all these people? They wouldn't make it nice, they would just throw them in the biggest hole they could find and make sure they can't get out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So what's the biggest hole that we can find? It's the Grand Canyon. So as long as we build something that they can't get out of, just toss them in. And then nobody knows. We're gonna call it this resort. We're gonna lie to the people, we're gonna make them pay us to get in, and then we can take the money and do other things with it, and then uh no one knows because it's the biggest lie ever told, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So Jude gets in there and has to swim through the bodies. He's trying to get out. Um, uh, he I'm gonna say it, he dies the very first time. So he does die, his heart stops, and he falls backwards. I have this nice moment. He falls backwards into an electric fence, which is the bane of the undead, right? So funny, yeah. Bane of the undead, because that's the only thing that can really stop them, is to fry their nervous system. But for him, it restarts his heart, and so he's able to escape the undead retirement community, and he sees the golden city in the back, you know, like in the distance. So he's able to head the right direction. So that's where we start issue eight, where Jude St. Clair still has the electrocuted hair and he's all ripped to shreds, and he's basically limping his way into the city. What's that?
SPEAKER_02He really needs a shower. And like issue eight starts with him arriving at the Golden City, and this is like a very big deal because when do we get once I know the story, Lori, but I know you know the issues better than I do. Which issue is it that we learn about the Golden City? This has been coming for a while.
SPEAKER_03This has been coming since issue one. Issue one, Jude St. Clair picks up a glass on the road with the map of Las Vegas on it, and that's the glass that falls out of the satchel and wakes up Big James. So, I mean, like, and then like in issues three, he's researching, he sees a news article with uh Dwayne Fink talking about gold, gold knows, um, you know, uh issue five, he's talking to Dwayne, and Dwayne is like, Gold, gold is the answer. Gold knows, gold has captured or he has worded it a couple different ways. That gold has captured death, gold has slapped the chains on death, gold, uh, you know, he's 103. Like he says just crazy stuff, right? So ultimately, this has been Jude's path since basically issue beginning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, it's a really big deal. This issue that he's finally made it, because this is where we he thinks he's gonna solve the question. Yeah. Of is how why is death broken? What has happened? Right. And I gotta say, issues one through seven until he gets thrown into the Grand Canyon. He's cute, he's got a nice little outfit, he's looking good. The very first thing you see of Jude, like you just he is destroyed.
SPEAKER_01Yes, he is a hot mess. Yeah. He went from a hot mess to a smoldering mess.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. And one of my favorite images in the beginning of issue eight, I'm looking at it right now, is where like who knows? I don't know when the last time was this man drank water. Right. It's been a while. I don't taste, I'm assuming. Uh and he's pressed up against the he sees a fish tank because now he's in the golden nugget, this very fancy Las Vegas hotel, and he's just pressed up against like, oh my god, and then drinks the fish water as if he thinks it's all the water that exists.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Not recommended.
SPEAKER_03No, I'm sure it's disgusting. But when you've been walking in the desert for days, you're drinking whatever water is in front of you. And I just I laugh so hard at that face, like where he's pressed up against the fish tank. Like, what? But again, it's like when you think about it, what is this place? They have a fish tank? Who keeps fish in the apocalypse? Doesn't seem on the priority list. Right, exactly. Where are we? And that's that's cue number one that this place is not normal.
SPEAKER_02Quick sidebar. Now I kind of would love to see an undead fish tank. I mean, why not? Yeah, I mean you could. But not in this world, not in the golden nugget. So then we see him, someone runs into him. I think it's like uh, what would you say she is? She's like uh somebody who's helping run the place. Pardon? Hospitality. Hospitality, yeah. And I think she's just like, What are you? What are you doing? We actually have water. She gets him a room and he just loses it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I thought that was so fun. She is okay, she's in a uniform with a name tag. She's in the hotel, like the apocalypse does not exist. You know what I mean? Where she's like, Oh, I'm so glad you're here. Gold will be excited that someone else came for his birthday party. We put a few rooms aside for it just in case, you know, what do you need? And he's like, Food? And she was like, Yeah, yeah, go take a shower, you stink.
SPEAKER_02Right?
SPEAKER_03I mean, he's literally crawled out of a bunch of dead people, yes, and was electrocuted. So he looks just I love that part where she's like, Are you okay? And like the picture is like his hair sticking up, his clothes are all and like he only has one shoe, one shoe, and she's new here.
SPEAKER_02His hair looks like anime hair in this issue in the beginning. It's just out there.
SPEAKER_03It just makes me laugh. I thought Gilbert did such a good job. He really did.
SPEAKER_02And then we see, speaking of the body pillow, we see Jude close to naked. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In fact, I had written to Gilbert chickened out because I put tastefully nude in the shower. No, we didn't do full frontal, that's not us, but some cute buns would have been nice. That would have been all right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that could have been another body pillow.
SPEAKER_03There you go.
SPEAKER_02You could have a front and a back.
SPEAKER_03Well, we still have Jude in the towel, though, after he gets out of the shower and he's wrapped in a towel, so we could do that still.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, shaves his face. It did remind me a little bit of that iconic moment with Rick and The Walking Dead, but in a completely different context, um, where you see someone like, all of a sudden, this man is cleaned up, looking good, getting food on a gold platter.
SPEAKER_03Yes, but it's like a cheese sandwich. And so when I had written the script, it was like, what would they serve him, you know, being brand new to the city? It's like a cheese sandwich with lettuce and tomato on bread and side of pickles and chips. It sounds good. And if and if you're starving, that's a feast, right? Did you guys notice the soda that was on the tray?
SPEAKER_02I'm looking at it literally right now, and I didn't zoom in, and I'm going to be taking this moment to do it. Hold on. Why won't you zoom for me? I'm getting closer. One moment. Enhance. Does that say Lori Lori and Dean? It says Lori's drank. Oh, Lori's drank. I didn't zoom in enough. It is purple and it is like a little face grape, ponytail, and a cowboy hat. Mrs. Lori's drink. What flavor is Lori's drink? Grape. Oh, it's grape. Is that actually your favorite drink?
SPEAKER_03No. It's just random people on Facebook keep, you know, you know me. I have hot sauce and I have coffee beans and I have all these random things built into my Kickstarter. Someone's like, when are we getting a drink? Never making you a drink. That's so such a weird thing. He's like, I'm gonna keep asking. It could be a cool sticker though, that's grape scented. That's true.
SPEAKER_01What if it's like um oh, what's the what's that fruit that you're not allowed to eat in public?
SPEAKER_03Durian?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What if it's durian flavored?
SPEAKER_03Ooh.
SPEAKER_01Just carbonated durian juice.
SPEAKER_02It's so disgusting. I mean, it does something you might do to torture someone.
SPEAKER_03Although you know me, I I'm loving the scratch and snip stickers. So we could do like a purple one that smells like grape. I would love that.
Bethany Gold And The Auditorium Trap
SPEAKER_02I would love that. What was the hardest part to convey uh to Gilbert in terms of like the art of this issue?
SPEAKER_03So the hardest part of this issue of issue eight is the middle part. So once Jude is in the auditorium and like he sits down and the twitchy guy next to him starts acting out, um, things start happening really fast. Like Bethany's coming down from the ceiling and people are singing and there's music going on, and then guns start going off, and it's like that whole scene where Gold is intimidating the twitchy, the guy with the gun. And it's a distraction just enough so that Jude, when he looks over at Bethany, she starts signing things to him from the stage. And so with all the things moving around, it was so hard to like Gilbert and I had to go through it just a few times just to be like, okay, this is this, this is the events that happen from Bethany's point of view. This is what's happening with Jude. This is what's happening with uh Gold and Twitchy, whose name is Oscar. And so, like that middle part is like a very intricate dance of all the things that are happening at the same time that lead to what happens next.
SPEAKER_02Gosh. Oh, yeah. I'm like, how much do we spoil here? I I thought, I mean, like it's interesting to hear that and it makes a lot of sense in retrospect, but again, it just shows the quality of the work that that was I was just in it when it was happening and like figuring out, like doing the spelling of the sign um and realizing it that Bethany is a. Are we saying it? Yeah, she's a prisoner. So we meet Bethany on a golden hoop. She's the entertainment for Gold's birthday. A golden hoop in a gold dress, wearing, actually, now that I'm looking at it more closely, I didn't realize the first time around that she's clearly wearing cuffs. She is. Golden cuffs.
SPEAKER_03I'm glad that you noticed that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, but we don't know a ton about Bethany other than that she's the entertainment at first until uh Oscar, a twitchy guy. Yeah. I don't want to say it. One of you have to say it. I feel like I'm I feel like I know I'm allowed to, but I feel like I'm doing a bad thing.
SPEAKER_03He shoots a gun. But let me ask you this who is he shooting at?
SPEAKER_02Oh. I just assumed it was gold. Now I need to look again. Is he shooting at Bethany? Maybe. We don't know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, he grazes Bethany, right?
SPEAKER_03Oh no, it firmly hits the person that's behind Bethany, but that's because Jude intervened. Yes. And that person that is struck by the bullet is moi. That's me. Oh my god!
SPEAKER_02Okay. These are the fun things. I need to see this again. This is also why I'm looking forward to the physical issue because the first time I read this was on my phone.
SPEAKER_03Um, it's totally me going, oh crap, oh crap.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, it is you! Wow, he really captured your face perfectly in terms of this face you're making.
SPEAKER_03He's like, send me a picture of you freaking out. So I was like, Did you know it was gonna be you?
SPEAKER_02Or are these some of those fun back and forths that you have?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That was intentional. In fact, from the beginning of because again, I had written these all, the whole story was done in by 2019 before we started production. And I was like, wouldn't it be funny if Jude gets to the Golden City and like, is it is that Lori? And then boom, Lori's dead. So it's like I have planned that to be my cameo since the beginning.
SPEAKER_02That is incredible.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, again, you don't know, like in retrospect, when you look at it, it's like, who is he trying to shoot and why? Like he says some pretty wild things. Um, you know, like gold, you can't you can't do this forever, set it free. Um set it free, set it free, you know. So he knows something.
SPEAKER_02Something's not right here. I know your secret. What's interesting to me is Jude's impulse to be the good guy and save and like stop it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Always. That's that's his character. He's always, and we've seen that. Like, if you pay attention to Jude from issue one, he plays the hero and he he wants to protect women and children. Um, we see that time and time again where he he's compelled to do that, and so he has this moral character to himself, and it's like now that he knows that Bethany, well, she claims she's a prisoner, she looks that way, but just wait till next issue we'll get to talk to her, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, as you know, Jude does carry the world on his shoulder. He does.
SPEAKER_02He does, he's decided he's responsible for saving it. First, he wanted to save his parents, but now he's just like fully dedicated.
SPEAKER_03The song will make more sense as we go through these next few issues.
SPEAKER_02What's interesting too is like I just assume Gold's a bad guy.
Comfort Built On Something Horrific
SPEAKER_02I don't know why I've decided this, but I just, you know, you're rich and you got a lot of power. I feel like you're a bad guy.
SPEAKER_03I mean he's a sleaze ball for sure. Yeah. You guessed that, right? I mean, look at him. He's like Oggling he goes into the dressing room, he's ogling girls when they're getting dressed and smacking them on the tooth, offering them up to Jude as reward for saving him. I can sleep with one of my girls for the night. Thanks for saving my ass. You know what I mean? Like that's that's predatory. A little bit, yeah. But even before that, I was like, I don't like I don't like this gold. You're not supposed to you're not supposed to. Um, the way I had written him into the script is like he he vaguely looks like uh uh Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. In that he he's predatory. Like you you he feels cold. Um he'll smile real big, but his smile doesn't extend to his eyes. And a lot of times when Jude is talking to him, his eyes will kind of like flash red. Like if it's another, it's a warning sign, like he he heard something and he's dangerous in that moment. It's like, oh, okay, um, don't mess with this guy. And then you find out what he's really doing in the golden city with the people. It's like, first of all, where there's no one dead here. Nobody, right?
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about that because one of again, one of my other favorite visuals is when Twitchy guy Oscar get that where he gets shot in the forehead, and there's this incredible like the visual on this one, because not only is it him being shot in the forehead, but then all of the different um other images that follow that tell the story are like connected through this guy's blood. It is so gross and amazing.
SPEAKER_03That Gilbert has done um in previous issues as well, where it's like the blood drips down the panels. And so, like you said, it kind of connects everything, but it's that visceral, like gooey feeling that kind of like carries itself through the page, and he's really good at that. So I always enjoy when he incorporates that into the panel work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like that's another one where I'd be like, that'd be fun to have on my wall. I'm gonna have to go back through the wall.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh but just print all of the panels as posters and then just wallpaper, your room. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That would be fun. Actually, that would be really fun. You know, that is who I am. When I was 14 and everybody thought NSYNC and Backstreet Boys were cool and they had them all over their walls. If I'd been 14, I would have had this all over my walls and they probably cool. Yeah. Me too. We would have been friends, Laurie, for sure, as teenagers. Uh, but here's the thing is like I don't realize right away, like, you don't know that death is not an issue here until he says that we are gonna serve Oscar for fucking dinner as steak. Yeah. Oh, a steak Oscar sounds great. Then to the butcher. Then I think thank God that they just gave Judah cheese sandwich. Exactly. I actually went back and looked and was like, is there meat in that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel like Oscar would be better as like a chop. Or roasted. Roasted or a chop.
SPEAKER_03Roast Oscar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right. I think there is actually a steak Oscar though. It's served with crab meat. Like if you go to a restaurant and you order steak Oscar, yeah. That's why I picked his name as Oscar. But Jude kind of mentions this. So he's the first when he gets into the auditorium, there's a huge buffet, right? And so, first of all, the opulence of that, like people are starving, people are are fighting over stuff, you know, like there's not there's nowhere to go. We're throwing people in gosh darn Grand Canyon because we can't deal with them. And he gets here, and people are dressed up in ball ball gowns, ball gowns and tuxedos, and they're going through this buffet, like and they have hot showers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, comfy. And they have a buffet? All the water you can drink, fancy drinks, ladies on golden hoops?
SPEAKER_03What is happening? Show Las Vegas showgirls dancing on stage with music. But he says something at the end of the buffet, they are serving meat, and he was like, I didn't see any cows.
SPEAKER_02Because there's no cows. There's just are you wait? Is your cameo meaning like Lori Calcatera version of you in this comic gets eaten?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, yes, that's what they do with their undead. They can't save you, they serve you for dinner. Even you. Even me. I'm on the shopping block.
SPEAKER_01You know, I feel like that's fitting.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so the last few issues, Gilbert Perez has drawn himself into the art. So he was in the undead camp, he was in um the Grand Canyon, so he's been in. So I was like, all right, Gilbert, where are you going to be in this issue? And he drew himself as the chef that is serving the meat.
unknownPerfect.
SPEAKER_01And I was like Also very fitting.
SPEAKER_03So funny. Couldn't help it.
SPEAKER_01Gilbert is serving all the readers. Yeah. He's feeding us. We are consuming you. Oh my god, very meta.
SPEAKER_02Steak lorie. What would steak lorry be if store steak Oscar is with what would you say it was? It was with some fish or something?
SPEAKER_01You need to sell some jerky now. Lori jerky. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's not fancy enough. It needs to be like, you know, fancy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, golden lorry jerky.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay. What flavor would you be? What flavor of jerky? Nothing spicy.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Oh my god, Lori's hot sauce jerky. Yeah, there you go. Would buy. Oh my god. But also be really creeped out as I'm eating it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, like, you you know that these people know what's going on there and they're okay with it. It's like, I and I think I said this while the Kickstarter was live. I was just like, what would you give up in order to stay in that level of comfort? You know? What would you agree to? What are the rules of this place? And would you be okay staying there if it was like, you're fine as long as you don't die? And if you do die, we're gonna eat you.
SPEAKER_02What is with your stories? We're gonna eat you. What is with your stories and being freakishly timely with the other disturbing shit we've learned this year that some rich people have done?
SPEAKER_03Um I said that to my editor as uh as we were working on it, and we were in production, and I was just like, God, God, why is again? Because I hate to say it, but Gold is like, he's fucking Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. He's he's trading, he's he's peddling flesh and they're eating people.
SPEAKER_02What the f yeah, this should be only in your comic Lori, I like to say.
SPEAKER_03This should not be a thing that we're reading news. And it's like, it's so odd. Again, I wrote this in 2018, and as we are releasing it, it becomes relevant to what's going on. It's disturbing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, he wrote it in 2018, so that means that death was broken when Jeffrey Epstein was found in a cell, and death was broken. That's how he got out of prison. He's still out there.
SPEAKER_03I really hope that's another complication is what do we do with those a-holes that are so bad and we can't even kill them? Cut off their arms and legs. We can't that's terrifying. You gotta take them up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you just chop off their limbs and put them in a pickle jar.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But like as usual, your um your stories always speak for themselves in terms of like just connecting to the real-world horrors that we have to deal with, but in very fun ways. And I didn't make the Epstein connection until right now, but now having made it, I'm like, oh my, that is very disturbing. I feel like it's a public service that you might need to spoil your final issue so that we can prepare for whatever is coming. Like, what is coming, Lori? Can we Lori tell us? Can we change the tide in advance through your like where is Lori's rich patron so that we can get it out fast, somehow ahead of the schedule it should be. Save us, Lori.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, save the world from whatever fresh horror is. There's good news and bad news here. Okay. So once we know the answer, and like what uh like really, once we get to the end of 12, things go off in such a large and fantastical direction that if uh if the real world follows my story, uh, we are absolutely I'm gonna say it, we're fucked. There's no way. There's no way it could happen. There's no way. Don't say that, don't worry. Don't say that. Stop it. They let me off because I'm done. I'm done. I can't.
SPEAKER_02I'm really scared now.
SPEAKER_03There's a lot of there's a lot of more bad stuff. We'll just put it that way.
SPEAKER_02I really hope that this is the last issue that has disturbing like there's always good social comments. Anything that's good is gonna have social commentary about the complexity of being human and some how some people choose to do terrible things.
SPEAKER_01But this is like too close. Leah, we're we're basically in the first act.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I was really hoping you were gonna say, Don't worry. It's a happy ending.
SPEAKER_03We got a long way to go before we get there, though.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Because you guys gotta remember, like, like I wrote this as a full-length movie, and there's three movies. In 20, you said 2019 you wrote it? 2018. 2018. 2018. 2018. And when do you think that like when in like in your best case dream world that we would be you would have this done? We would have all the whole story. Like, let's let's call it out now. What is the time that we need to be most terrified of? What year?
SPEAKER_03That includes math, and maybe we'll do that after the show. It gets bad.
SPEAKER_01Great. Thanks, Laura.
SPEAKER_03And I laugh because even from the beginning, I've been saying this where it's like, this gets crazy. Like issue four, we get riots. Issue five, there's more riots from uh, and then we get into seven and it gets nuts. But as crazy as these first 12 are, then the next 12 are 100% more crazy. 100%.
SPEAKER_02Have you considered predicting like numbers in the lottery? No.
SPEAKER_01Um she's gonna have to put them in the comic. Yeah, put them in the comic. Then it comes true. That's how the magic works. And then we'll put them in the next release. Yeah, right. So like we'll all decide on some numbers and you're gonna put those in your comic, and then we'll all be rich. We'll be gold. Yeah, then we can buy spaceships and leave this place.
SPEAKER_03Can we please? There's something happening in 2029. Uh well, we'll talk about it after the show, but there's something happening in 2029 that actually I have predicted in this story.
SPEAKER_02Okay, we got three years. We need to do some, we need to live life, is what I'm hearing. Everybody, go live your life like there's no tomorrow because we don't know what's coming. Lori apparently does. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I didn't know it at the time when I wrote it. I really got tapping something. All right,
The Angel And The Skeleton Split
SPEAKER_03so let me ask you this. Okay, what do you think about the end of the book? Because there's a beautiful piece of art.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I thought it looked a lot like a tarot card.
SPEAKER_02It's a piece of art that we see all the way. I'm again, like I knew it instantly. I feel like it's part of your deck, your tarot, oh not tarot deck, sorry. Although you could do a cool tarot deck sidebar. Um of your poker deck. You're already doing a poker deck. Yeah, your poker deck. And I instantly recognized it. And I'm gonna describe it for folks. Yeah, it's on the back. This way. Is that the same? It's similar. It's very similar, but not the same. And you also had some art like from the very, very early days. So I'm gonna describe it for folks. Wasn't it an alternative cover? Yes. Ah, there we go. Good. Now I'm now that should be a special edition now, because I'd be you things I'd be willing to pay a lot of money for is that.
SPEAKER_03That will actually be one of the covers on issue nine. Nice. And it's gonna be a foil.
SPEAKER_02Oh, definitely gonna get that one. So on the right hand side is an angel. Her hand is lifted up to the sky. There's a sun with sunbeams and clouds. She looks vaguely like Bethany, actually now scrolling up and being like, Are you the same person? Does the eye color the same?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, it has to be.
SPEAKER_02Lori? I'm not saying. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Well, it might be Bethany, not sure. Well, who's painting all these paintings in her room? She is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So the angel on one side, uh, undead skeletal creature that still has some flesh on them, but not just sort of like sinewy with a black wing, black clouds, and the moon, and looks almost like a watery, a bit of like a watery, shadowy, cloudy thing in the background. But it's split right down the middle and it's stunning. And what color is the line that divides it? Gold. That was my moment. I think I might know.
SPEAKER_03In fact, if you go back to the very first Kickstarter, this is an image that I use as our thumbnail. That's right. So this image has been on multiple things that I've shown you since the beginning.
SPEAKER_02It's incredible. What does it all mean?
SPEAKER_03What does it mean? Yeah, exactly. We'll find out. We'll find out. Find out. But I just thought I love that moment where it's like, this is the last page, and it's like, I've seen that. Where have I seen it? It means something. Um, and when you really dig into the art, it's like it's two sides of something, you know, together with this golden line down the middle. And how ironic is it that we're in the golden city with gold. So something is there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if only somebody um said what it was in sign language, then we would know for sure.
SPEAKER_03You know, it's interesting you say that. Did you look at the last page?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay. Uh, there's a couple funny things on that last page. The first one is what Jude is signing to Twitchy.
SPEAKER_02Can I please say it out loud or should we just let people twat waffle? I didn't think I've ever heard those two words together, but I love it. It sounds beautiful. Twat waffle.
SPEAKER_03He just signs the most sarcastic and insults. Like, that's just Jude, right? He just, I mean, like he's calling people douchebag and issue two playing poker, and it's like some guy spills a drink on his lap, he's like, You waffle.
SPEAKER_01Uh I I love that there are signs for things like twat waffle. Um have you ever heard twat?
SPEAKER_02Like, had you heard twat waffle? Where how did where to twat you've so you've you've casually just said twat waffle in your life?
SPEAKER_03Uh, I think I've heard it, but I can't remember where, what instance, but I know I've heard of it. But it was just like I follow a lot of sign language uh channels like uh TikTok, um YouTube shorts and real stuff like that. I'm always looking for things for this reason where it's like, haha, that's hilarious, and then send it to Gilbert and he chuckles and I'm like, going in.
SPEAKER_02Like yeah, in fact, it's what Jude signs to Oscar. Twaffle. You're a Twat Waffle.
SPEAKER_03But Bethany sees this, right? And that's how she knows she can communicate to him.
SPEAKER_01That adds up because I I did find myself wondering, like, how does she know to sign language to Jude? But that makes sense. That adds up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she's on stage, she can see everything, and she's just singing very non-enthusiastically. And of course, if you you know, you see some dude like stand up, like, oh my god, and waffle, you know, he's like, stop it. He's making a scene, she's watching. So she she knew that she could communicate to him.
SPEAKER_02And they're just supposed to be buddies, because when uh Gold offers him some ladies, he asks for Bethany, knowing she's a prisoner. But apparently he's not disposed to do anything. I forget what he says exactly, but like, you know, don't do the thing you want to do with Bethany.
SPEAKER_03Right. Um, so that's like you can how did I say it's like you can you can pay her a visit, but you can't pay her a visit if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. So this issue nine, we're gonna get to see the conversation between Jude and Bethany. Yes. Yes. Is there a love is there a love story in this coming? Possibly. Sounds very dangerous for Jude if it's Bethany. You have no idea.
SPEAKER_03She's um she's very complex, we'll just put it that way. And um, she is one of the characters that is gonna be around in the story for a long time. So this is uh this is important, important characters, and and what happens in issue nine kind of um sets the precedent for how they view each other for the rest of the story. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's really exciting. It's so much fun. Thank you for making this thing that is just like if I just dissociate from the real life connections, really fun.
SPEAKER_03I laugh because you know how there was always those videos where people like, if I ever won the lottery, you know, there would be signs and they're doing whatever, and it would be me buying Santa Claus, Arizona ghost town and turning it into Path and just like exiting reality, creating Path of the Pill Rider and we'll be able to do it. Yeah, absolutely. It'd be like, all my friends can come live there. We would make the saloon salon. We would like someone could dress up as Dwayne Fink and dance on the table, entertain us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you make the bread. We'll make uh we'll bring Simon, he'll make the kimchi and like pickling stuff. I'll just be there for vibes, and Dan will be really useful because he can run an excavator.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, and you and I could build it. I'll just tell you, I'll just build the plans.
SPEAKER_02You can excavate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just leave the rest to me.
SPEAKER_02I love it. I also feel the need to tell the audience that I don't know when you put sunglasses. Have you had sunglasses on this entire interview? Are you that cool?
SPEAKER_01No, I I I put them on halfway through. Oh. And uh I mean, I have been that cool this entire time, but I just recently put sunglasses on. It's a vibe. It's definitely a vibe.
Theories On Who Broke Death
SPEAKER_02Okay, I think it's time to guess.
SPEAKER_03All right, tell me what you think. And again, I'm not gonna I'm not going to confirm or deny. I'm gonna put on my best poker face and I'm gonna nod.
SPEAKER_01I think this episode gives a lot of new information, but I just want to stick with my old my my old theory that um death just kind of felt unappreciated. Like nobody nobody appreciates death for what death does. So death is just like, eh, you know, I'm just gonna take some time off, guys, take some me time, and you guys can see how bad it is when I don't do my job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02See, but that doesn't make sense anymore because we are now in a world where death can happen. And gold claims to be how old? 103. And he looks like he's mid-30s, somewhere in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, at least he's looking great. At least a young-ish Jeffrey Epstein.
SPEAKER_02Terrible. I hate him. I know he's a horrifying human being. Um, and Gold, I think, is also pretty horrifying because I there's a couple of guesses. Okay, my first guess when the first time I read it, I was like, maybe Gold, whatever reason, he goes to Las Vegas for fun and he makes a bet, and somehow he wins death. I don't really know how that works.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, because it is Vegas, so he can make bets on anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But like who had get if who had death before if he somehow makes a bet?
SPEAKER_01This is where my theory plays into this. Death is like, I'm going on vacation, I'm gonna go to Vegas. Death finds themselves at the wrong table with this Jeffrey Epstein look-alike. And they're like, What if what if instead of money, um, we we play we play some serious cards, and if I win, uh I just like they don't they don't know what they're they're what they're getting in return. They're like, I'll I'll I'll gamble for your soul. And then and then they win, and then they get they get death's death's soul and powers.
SPEAKER_02I I don't know if that's exactly how it happens, but that is my best hypothesis at this point is that gold has taken like in order to live forever, he's taken control of death. And the consequence of that is everywhere else is fucked, except for this one place that he is where death is. Also, but I also really want to see death as like a personified thing. I'm curious. Is Bethany death?
SPEAKER_01There's no telling. There's no there's I'm like staring Lori in the face and like, is Bethany death? There's no possible clues that could lead us to that answer. Um, this is just we're just wilding out right now.
SPEAKER_02Uh I like all the theories.
SPEAKER_03They're all very good.
SPEAKER_02What's the wildest theory you've gotten most recently? Is there any new one, especially with issue eight coming out?
SPEAKER_03I've gotten some good ones. They haven't been anything new recently. At least not that anybody's told me. Um, people have been saying that uh one, okay, one that was really good was like Jude somehow missed dying, and that death is following him around because it's a good point. Like everywhere that Jude goes, terrible things follow, right? But he keeps slipping, slipping out and by the skin of his teeth, and he's still alive. So it's like death is obsessed with Jude and that until it collects his soul, you know, that life can't go back to normal. So that was that was a good one.
SPEAKER_01Um death just like saw Jude's abs.
SPEAKER_03Oh, he's been face maxing, and I need so mog. I just need to it's been mogging and I need to collect this man.
SPEAKER_01I gotta do whatever it takes to get this man in a cowboy hat.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Therefore, we're gonna break everything and send everybody back to the Wild West.
SPEAKER_02Turn him into a body pillow eventually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03A lot of people have said what you have said, Dan, that death is just on vacation, that death had enough, that death is you know, it's just like F you guys, I'm out, you know, figure it out.
SPEAKER_01It's gotta be a card game. And my reason is that you've been giving cards out. I have. Um as in in reward tiers. It's gotta be cards. It's gotta be a card game. Poker is the culprit here. Yeah. Yeah. It could be blackjack, but probably poker. Poker is a cowboy. Well, you've been calling them poker cards, so it's gotta be poker.
SPEAKER_03They are, they are poker cards, yeah. So Death lost a poker uh hand to uh gold.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I like it. While on vacation. Bethany's the end.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you went on vacation, things got bad, and then like yeah, yeah, he just lost his like magic ring or something.
SPEAKER_02Well, we're gonna get hit in the face with whatever it is by issue ten, and we're getting close to issue ten.
SPEAKER_03We're getting very close. And if you guys pay attention in the next one, there is uh I'm dropping a ton of breadcrumbs in issue nine.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I will be uh looking at it with a microscope. Not a microscope, a magnifying glass, being like, Where is the truth?
SPEAKER_01I need to know. Look at the fibers of the paper. Lori hid a secret on a microscopic scale. It's in there. We gotta look at all the pages.
SPEAKER_02I'm also gonna be looking at it and being like, what fresh horror has Lori also pegged that is now happening?
SPEAKER_03I hope not.
SPEAKER_02And I'm definitely gonna need my body pillow of Jude to like hug whenever I found out whatever happened to death initially.
SPEAKER_03Um if it does well, that particular item, I can do a Lola one, I can have a Big James pillow, maybe a Bethany pillow.
SPEAKER_01What about a sad pancake pillow?
SPEAKER_03That's kind of a strange thing. Yeah. But but this trade campaign will have sad pancake plushies. I don't
Trade Paperback Details And Bonus Content
SPEAKER_03know if you saw that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, tell us about the trade campaign.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so um, every four issues we run a trade paperback, which again is just a little bit more marketable. So it can get into bookstores like Barnes Nobles, it can be on Amazon for international shipping. So um bookstores tend to like those. They won't tend to carry individual issues. So that's why we should just do both, right? And so the campaign that's coming is just uh it's it's a much lower goal than I typically have. Um, and it's just meant to cover the print charge. The art is done. The book is gonna happen either way, you know what I mean? But um the Kickstarter is to help pay for the print, the big print, because those uh books are a little more expensive to print, right, than the individual issues. So it's gonna be about 148 pages, it'll have issues five through eight, uh, which we have read plus bonus material. And so that's there is a there, I mean, some people are like, hey, I already have these five, you know, these four issues five through eight. Should I bother getting the trade? And I always say if you're a collector, then yes. Um, it's gonna have new journal entries that are not in the individual issues. There's going to be a fan art section. So I've been collecting fan art of Path of the Huston since the beginning. So I have a whole section of fan art. Um, all of the covers that I have run, all like the variant covers from five through eight. So it's always hard to pick and choose when a campaign is live, like I really like that foil one, but gosh, did you see that one that William Russell did? You know what I mean? And then, oh, look at this one. This one is 3D, like you need 3D glasses. So, I mean, you can have them all in the back of this trade, is what I'm trying to get at. And then, you guys, there is um a short story written by someone else. Oh. So it's prose. Um, and it's a character called Taco Feo, which is hilarious, and he's an ex-gang banger, and something happens on the day that death went missing. And so it's a short story written by my friend David Howard, who goes by Nem. And um, so I'm releasing that in the back of this book. So it's someone else getting to play in the Path sandbox. Really interesting.
SPEAKER_02That's really fun. You've made a universe that there could be infinite stories for.
SPEAKER_03Right. And this is actually the second story that someone has written. The first one, though, is too close to the answer. So I couldn't release it. And it was written like two years ago, and I was like, I love this, but I can't put it out yet. And so I'm saving that one for the next trade paperback. That one can be released, which is actually the origins of the skinner from the um choose your own adventure book. So all really good stuff. So that's what's coming. Plus, the the the merch, the kind of like the um the campaign tiers for the trade are different. So, like, we won't have a fun co-pop, we won't have a secret reward except for the very top tier. But um, I do these mini handmade trades where I print and I cut them and I sew them together and I I bind them, and you get to pick out your own cover colors and stuff. So there'll be 10 of those. There's the um the sad pancake plushies, there's five of those. Um, there's the green eggs and ham. There's five of those. There's the um There's five green eggs and ham.
SPEAKER_02I got a chance. I got a fighting chance.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Well, for this one, um what I decided to do is I'm making them tears. So in the past, what I've done is I've made them everything kind of cool as an add-on. But what I found is that like the people that get there early take all the good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Leah.
SPEAKER_03No, it's played by me, it's not a culprit. Yeah, it's played by me. I mean, like, I always appreciate the support, but when it's like one person and they go through the add-ons and they get one of every exclusive, I want to kind of have it be spread out. So it's like if you get um the green eggs and ham, you probably won't be able to get the um the mini trade. I want to kind of spread out the exclusives to more people if the if they would like. Just because um, like again, I appreciate the support and I love sending a box of like all the goodies to one person, but I feel like with the trade, um, we have a lot less tiers because there's only one cover.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_03It's a great cover though. It's got sad pancake. Thank you. I know that was Gilbert. Gilbert, I asked him to do Lola for the cover, and he threw sad pancake in there, and I was like, I love it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02What I want to know is who gets the special mini trade that is in your mouth in this picture on the pre-launch page.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no. That's okay, those are the mini mini ones, which I give away for free. So everybody's getting one of those with issue eight and everybody will get one with the trade if we get to a hundred pre-launch signups. But I make like, I don't even know if I have one because I think I sent them all. But they're like, they're like this big, like um if I they're like eight and a half by eleven and then in half and then folded, right? So it's an actual black and white trade paperback, five issues five through eight. But I make it myself. I print it on my printer, I cut the paper, I bind it, and then I create the hardcover. There's pictures of it um on the pre-launch page. So I made 10 of these for the last campaign, so I will make 10 more for this campaign. So, but it's like it's seriously a 100% handcrafted book that I make for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for if for folks who haven't seen it, Lori does incredible binding of like rebinding of other people's books, but with very unique covers. Um, you did an amazing one for Joe Salazar's uh originally The Dead Weight coming out now, re-released with a publisher. If we survive the night, you should go pre-order that. Just quick shout out. I know you love Joe, so quick shout-out to Joe too.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Where can you pre-order that? Where can you pre-order it? I think, uh let me, I think it's everywhere.
SPEAKER_03You pre-order it on Amazon? Survive the night. Because I didn't know about the pre-order. Because I was like, is it time yet? No, it's not time yet. Is it time yet?
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's not time yet. Yeah, it's on Amazon and it's on Barnes and Noble. I will be pre-ordering my copy. Yes. Um and everybody needs to find you and make sure when is this Kickstarter officially launching?
Launch Dates Events And Final Plugs
SPEAKER_03So the trade paperback will be July the 3rd, and it'll just run for the month of July. So July, it's like it's four Fridays. So it launches on a Friday, and then we're all gonna have 4th of July and ignore the Kickstarter for a day, and then we'll come back and we'll push it some more. And then it ends on the last day of July. So um the plans are to launch issue nine, probably September, October, um, depending on when I get all my ducks in a row.
SPEAKER_02So are there going to be undead ducks one day?
SPEAKER_03Ooh, I could throw that Eric's way. I think I'm gonna go on that show. He has something new for me, and I I I cr I my face hurts from smiling from being on that show, and I think I cry at least twice. Oh he is making me uh what's the show called? Let's give it a shout out. It's called It Frickin' Figures. It's hilarious. It's mostly about it's about action figures, and him and his co-host both collect action figures, and I mean like the fancy ones, right? With all the joints and everything. Yeah um last time I was on the show, he found a prototype for a bear. And I mean, like, it's it's probably 10 inches, 12 inches tall. Um, I sent him money that day. I was like, buy it, buy it for me. Big James. You want to make Big James? I'm paying for it. Like, whatever you need, you just let me. I sent him the money and he's gonna make me a Big James. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I this is the best thing about this world of indie authors, creators, comic creators, is just the and just uh yeah, creators in general is the community that gets built and that you've been such a big part of building. And I know that you're just beloved across this world. So I just want to say thank you for everything that you do, and I feel really honored that you get to be our Zom Bestie too. I love you guys. We love you too. So everybody go hit the uh pre-launch sign up button so you get notified right away. I will be in Canada, so I'm definitely gonna need we'll both be in Canada, actually, Dan. July 5th. I need to put my calendar right now. July 3rd. July 3rd. Why did I say July 5th? Lies.
SPEAKER_03I was like, I don't want you to sign up for or or or put your reminder for July 5th and show up and all the good stuff is gone. Yeah, that's two days later. That's literally how these campaigns have been going. The last like three campaigns, all of the exclusives are gone in the first two days.
SPEAKER_02I'm putting it in my calendar right now, July 3rd. Oops, sorry, that was the sign language. Did you hear it? I love it. I was going back and looking at it again. Um, okay. Going in my calendar right now, July 3rd. I am getting the green eggs and ham.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownGotta get it.
SPEAKER_02Well, it is always sad to say so long, but I'm feel very lucky that we got the chat with you today and cannot wait for the trade paperback. One more thing for folks who are planning to come to Living Dead weekend uh from June 12th through the 14th. Lori is sending me some issues one, two through four trade paperbacks and pick them up there. Yeah. Um, so we're gonna be repping Lori for that event, which I'm very excited about because uh last year we just brought a bunch of your comic issues and we were like, go get this. But no, you can't have this live. Go find this somewhere else. But not show it to people and be like, that's the QR code there.
SPEAKER_03This is mine, this is mine now, and you're like, no. Mine.
SPEAKER_01I know we brought things to the show, but you can't have it. No, I'm just showing you what's available. Just look at all of our stuff.
SPEAKER_03Aren't you jealous? Yeah, you can have it. Yeah. Well, I hope you guys have fun at the show. Uh it's a show that's on my radar. I would love to get there um one year, but it's just so hard when the kids are little. So you know what I mean? Like they still want mom around. They're um nine and twelve. The 12-year-old's gonna be 13 in December. So once they're older and they don't care if I'm around as much, I can take off and go abandon them on the street. I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_02We did get a camper, and one of these days we're gonna make one of the things, somewhere, somewhere we're gonna meet up with you. Um I would love that. Bring Joe, bring Brandon, just show up. I mean, that's a lot of people are trying to camper, but we'll make it happen.
SPEAKER_03Brandon can ride on top. Don't bring Brandon to my house. Don't bring Brandon to your house. Bring Brandon to my house. But Joe's okay.
SPEAKER_02Joe, Joe's. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Brandon's like, Brandon, bring a kit, and I'm gonna live in the backyard, and I'll be like, Brandon, go home.
SPEAKER_02We'll drop Brandon off at the closest Walmart and not let him know. And then you can come see him.
SPEAKER_03Just drop him off at a neighbor's house and tell him it's mine.
SPEAKER_02That would be extra funny if he like knocks on the door.
SPEAKER_03It's like, is Lori home?
SPEAKER_00Like, no.
SPEAKER_01Then we just leave. Oh, just leave him.
SPEAKER_02Just getting brand and we don't want you. Yeah, we do. I mean, that's the ultimate sign of affections to be teased, I think. Yeah. With love. Well, I hope that everybody has a wonderful day. Go sign up for that pre-launch. And if you have not read this stuff yet, you know where to go, pathofthepale.com. And you can also get the one through four trade paperback right now if you want it on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Get that right, Lori? Absolutely. Okay. Well, everybody, stay alive. Don't die. And if you do, then hope that it's in this universe. Maybe. No. But maybe not.
SPEAKER_01When I die, I want to stay dead.
SPEAKER_03They don't don't become undead in my world.
SPEAKER_01Just don't do it.
SPEAKER_03All right, but bye, everybody. Bye, everybody. Bye.
SPEAKER_02Bye. Twat waffle.
SPEAKER_03Twat.
SPEAKER_02Twaffel. Twat waffle.