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Zombie Book Club
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Zombie Book Club
'The Madcaps' Finale Kickstarter with Special Guest DM Ray | Zombie Book Club Ep 145
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Ray Jamison — writer, dungeon master, and creator of The Madcaps — returns to close out his medieval fantasy zombie miniseries in style. With his finale Kickstarter live for issues one through three, we dig into what it means to finish a story on purpose: one long night, four friends, and a necromancer standing between Ivywood and sunrise. We talk craft — how a DM mindset shapes pacing and payoff, why intrigue matters as much as action, and what makes these four characters (a brawny intellectual, a devout farmer, a good-hearted charlatan, and a social facilitator) ask the only question that really matters: who am I, and where do I fit?
We also get into the nuts and bolts of indie publishing — scripts, art, color, letters, Kickstarter tiers, specialty covers, and why building a complete, jumpable story from issue one is both a creative philosophy and a reader promise. If you've been waiting to get into The Madcaps, this is your window. Go back the Kickstarter now.
LINKS & CONTACT:
- Ray Jamison (DM Ray) on Instagram: @raymondthedm
- The Madcaps Issues #1–3 Kickstarter (finale campaign): kickstarter.com/projects/philboentertainment/madcaps-issue-3
Zombie Book Club Links
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Welcome Back Ray And Madcaps
SPEAKER_03The only button with the buttons, bad. I don't have anything funny to say about that.
SPEAKER_00Gotta put a cap on that. Thank you. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_03I'm Dan and When I'm not going completely mad. I'm writing a book that seems less and less crazy every day.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Leah. And today we have back in the house my Canadian dad from Winnipeg, Ray Jameson. Just kidding. This is your dad? He's my dad. We established this in episode 91. It's an honor to meet you, sir. Ray is a dad, but unfortunately he's not my dad because I think we're in the same generation. Not sure about exact age. However, oh go ahead, Ray. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say we last time we had the OAC discussion. Yes. Well, I think we're the exact same grade. 84 babies or 83. Yep. 84 if you're a well young year of 1984. Well, back when I was your age.
SPEAKER_02If there was, you know, if there was the ability to go backwards and forwards in time, you could possibly meet my dad. That would be preferable. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, you are not my dad, but I did try to convince you in episode 91. Folks should go back and listen to that after listening to this. Or before. Who knows? Either or.
SPEAKER_03Whatever it is that you're into.
SPEAKER_02But we've got Ray Jameson back in the house, a fellow Canadian, a fellow 84 baby, OAC. Here we go. He is a comic creator and writer whose storytelling is influenced by his role as a DM for Dungeons and Dragons. And his current project is the Madcaps comic book series. And right now, his Kickstarter is live for issues one through three. Ray, I'm so happy to have you back, Dad.
SPEAKER_00I'm happy to be on. And this uh issue is the final. It's a mini-series. This is this is
Finishing A Mini Series On Purpose
SPEAKER_00it. Wow. Yes, this has been uh a long time coming. I this is my first time on the creative side of a comic. So I wanted to finish the book with a statement. I didn't want it to go four, five, six issues in and then just fizzle out. So um I'm gonna assess when this is done and see where to go after that.
SPEAKER_02How does it feel to be ready to launch uh your last and final issue for this?
SPEAKER_00Well, Terry Cruz likes to describe himself as a carnival. He's super fun and scary at the same time, and that's pretty much this. This is the Terry Cruz of comics.
SPEAKER_02Are you in the fun house in the carnival? Or like what where are you right now?
SPEAKER_00So um, in order for things not to be scary, just like other just like everything else and responsibilities in life, you either put them off and say, I'll take care of it later, or you just play whack-a-mole and smash them as soon as they show up. When you play whack-a-mole, your life is a lot easier later on. Hard work pays off later, laziness pays off now. Um I hate kicking myself later. So um I I have uh fear-driven motivation to knock out any responsibilities that arise. So there's been a lot going on with this book. There's been a lot of different talent attached. I've had uh various different artists from my interior artist who also did the main cover for issue three, Victor Medina, working with him, making sure the script is cohesive and he can actually translate it to pages. To my colorist, legendary Dan Kemp, who's colored over a hundred issues of Spawn, like 50 to 150. Amazing. And uh Amazing Spider-Man, he colored as well, back when John Ramotta Jr. drew it, back when Peter Parker was a high school teacher, in the uh just after the turn of the century. Um, all of the different talent, uh Michael, Micah Myers, who's doing all the lettering, he's lettered all three issues, and the various talent for covers. I have a lot of cool covers coming out, and uh there is like a lot going on. I got some really cool add-ons I'm not allowed to talk about yet. And um, again, just uh it's it's whackable mentality. I don't want to be stressing out later, so I just smash them and get them done.
SPEAKER_02This is why you're my dad. I'm gonna like, you know, my dad has some really great. I'm sorry, I'm gonna play this to death. Uh my dad has some really great isms, but I think I'm gonna whack them all this shit to death is my new one from you. So thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00If the problem stresses you out, the only way through it is getting it. Just just attack it and get it done. Whack it in the face. I think that's good advice.
SPEAKER_02It is good zombie apocalypse advice.
SPEAKER_03It's both literal advice and also metaphorical advice.
SPEAKER_00I better plant those seeds now so we have crops later. That's good zombie.
SPEAKER_03That is also very wise. Where you're facing a horde and you're like, I'm gonna whack-em all the shit out of this.
SPEAKER_02That would be a great visual, like in a movie or something. If you I could picture that, just think of it like a whack-a-mole game, get the music. It's perfect.
SPEAKER_00Like a good bottleneck.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Otherwise, you're SOL. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, did you know that it's been almost exactly a year to the day since we last talked?
SPEAKER_00Uh I believe I'm not surprised because I've been releasing these issues every April. So that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh and so we need to catch up, Ray. I've been stalking you on the internet. I watched you do your cool stuff on Facebook. I'm obviously um part of the Kickstarter. I I feel like I'm doing this weird time zone thing where we're talking before it's out, but it's out now. So I've pre-followed, folks, that word.
Whack A Mole Motivation And Team
SPEAKER_02Whatever it is that you should have done. Yeah, it's not too late because it's just launched. Uh, but I would love to hear from you like best worst of the roller coaster of the last year with the madcaps.
SPEAKER_00With the madcaps, um, the best. Well, in issue two, my interior artist Victor Medina, after everything was done, he releases this image online and says, this was my warm-up start or my warm-up sketch for uh before starting issue two interiors. And I liked it so much with a couple of color adjustments. I I bought it off of him, and that's the main cover for issue three. So that was really cool. I can't believe he hid that because I I there's a good chance I would have utilized that in some way for issue two, but I'm I'm happy to glorify this man's skills and uh transfer it over into issue three. He it's a really well put together piece. Is that the one that you just showed us? Uh no, no. Um, the main one, if you go to the pre-launch campaign, the very first image at underneath when you start scrolling down, that's the main, we're calling it the main protagonist cover. Pardon me, I got the hiccups. There we go.
SPEAKER_03Horrible time to have the hiccups.
SPEAKER_00So um the main protagonist cover, there's a main antagonist cover underneath that. Um, we have absolutely zero knowledge of this villain leading up to this point, with the exception of debuting this cover. I did that a week before last Halloween, just to generate some buzz. And uh, other than knowing this thing, uh this uh individual is an elven necromancer, um, there's zero context. Uh there's a lot going on. One of my favorite things about storytelling, not, and I don't mean just me, any good story. If you're gonna have something that has a lot of action in it, you have to justify it. So in issue one and two, yeah, sure, there is action. And don't get me wrong, there's there's a good flow. There's times when it slows down. But number three, we've got to wrap this story up. So we're gonna be pulling out all the stops, and you're gonna see uh a lot of things hitting the fan and splattering in big chunks.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay. I I do it's like gore coming our way. I do remember from uh issue one, it it was it was an onslaught of action.
SPEAKER_00Uh at the start, yeah. So basically, six pages in, there's a beginning of an outbreak, and uh three of the four individuals are able to help stave it off with the local guard. Um, yes, it does have its share of action, but after that, there's a little bit of intrigue, some investigation. Yes. Um, this was this outbreak, did it have something to do with a local drug issue going on? And um one thing goes to another, there's lead, there's justification for scene changes, etc. One of the things I'm very proud about going into issue number two is although there's this weird balance, these four new characters nobody's ever read about before. Well, how do you establish these characters without taking up the entire issue? So, what I did is I did a lot of like um foreshadowing or just alluding to there's the rest of the world as existing. So you're not going to understand every thing around this group of friends. Like you'll you'll catch an inside joke or two. You know one of them will be chuckling at the reader, won't understand, but that's just to establish an atmosphere of how close they are with each other. Um, going into issue three, I do have these characters established. Issue two, you get to see them run some shenanigans and you get to see how they interact with each other. But uh issue number three, we have individuals that are in the back half of a night. Uh as it says in the Kickstarter, in the pre-launch, it says that these four friends find out this necromancer is putting out a curse on their hometown. So they're trying to hunt this individual down. So the entire issue is just dedicated to that. These are individuals that are tired. They've uh extend themselves out. These are not skilled fighters per se, they're not the mightiest in the realm. And between, as you already brought up, Dan, the the first issue, yeah, there's some stuff that went on, and then there's some stuff that goes on in issue too. They're they're a little tuckered, but because it's a time-sensitive issue, which has to do with sunrise, um, they are the closest to fixing the problem. They're not necessarily the best of options. So the real dynamic is these individuals who are not in the best shape, let alone the best um uh level of fortitude, because they're getting they're pretty much pulled an all-nighter at this point. Can they survive and actually pull off a win
Covers Buzz And Action Payoff
SPEAKER_00here? That's what this is all leading up to.
SPEAKER_02I love it. And I love that it's a limited series because it's like when I watch a limited series on Netflix, you know that it's going to end well, and it's not going to be dragged out unnecessarily. Yes. And from what you're telling me, things that we've read in issue two, when we get the full three, we can go back and experience the arc and like see new things in it, which is always exciting. Yes. For uh a story you really love. And I think what's cool with the madcaps is it's a medieval fantasy miniseries, which we don't often see combined with zombies. Can you share a little bit more about the world that this series is in?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, definitely. So um I'll start with Ivywood, where the majority of this story takes place. Ivywood is predominantly human and orc. And the whenever I say that, people ask right away, I haven't seen any orcs. Well, there's a reason for that, and I haven't really talked about it. Um, in a lot of cases, the concept never happens perfectly. So the concept I'm talking about is when you have various individuals of different backgrounds, you will have conflict. I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, but there's growing pains. That's the best, the nicest way to put it. So one of the reasons you don't see the orcs is uh because of that dynamic, which I'm not at liberty to talk about yet. Um, these these four individuals, they uh have a um the reason I chose Madcap was because none of them are either human or orcs. So they kind of they're kind of stand out, they're kind of eccentric. So I thought the title was very fitting. And more importantly, um going leaving that town. I on the Kickstarter, I've had this for the last two campaigns, but for this third campaign, I actually have a world map of where this town is and its surrounding area. So there's actually some cool lore behind all of that. Between there's one place called Gavel, which is predominantly dwarven, there's a place where there's a settlement of gnomes, there's some really cool spots. But for example, in issue two, there's an orchard, which, if you look on the map, is south of Ivywood. It it exists, it's a thing. Um, if you look at the after reading the the series, then looking at the map and going back, you'll get a bit more context to what's going on in this lovely world.
SPEAKER_02I really enjoy maps, especially in fantasy series. Yeah, you gotta have a fantasy map. Yes. Another thing I will be putting on my wall.
SPEAKER_00Right on.
SPEAKER_02Um, what about the four main characters? Obviously, Dan, I know who they are, but for those who are new to this and interested in buying the whole series, and we're backing the whole series, can you tell us a little bit about the four?
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, the four, much like any other character in fiction, they all have the same question within them, which is who am I and how do I fit in the world? So uh one of my favorite characters in sci-fi is Worf. And the reason I like Worf is he
Worldbuilding Ivywood And The Map
SPEAKER_00can't hide who he is. So you either find a way to blend in, there's usually a balance. So you find a way to blend in, but you also, if you can't hide who you are, you might as well unapologetically express yourself. Civilly, of course, but Worf on Star Trek, when he's wearing his uniform, he also has clean-on decoration across his chest. Despite being raised by humans, he tries to find that that blend of both to show that both of them contribute to who he is. Um one of the characters, Madracus, Madracus, he can't similarly can't hide who he is. He's raised by humans. And living in Ivywood as a kid, he actually had a lot of issues. So despite him being as an adult uh sick over six and a half feet tall and clearing 350 pounds in body weight, his most dangerous thing about him, his biggest strength, will you, is his intelligence. So he dabbles in the art game. He has the potential of being a great spellcaster, just has not had the opportunity to strengthen those studies. Um because he can't hide who he is, um, he has had, as an adolescent, issues with orcs in Ivywood. When you read issue one, the first couple of pages, Madrakus is reluctant to even go into the town. Yeah. At one point, the guards are about to confront him and he says Ivywood's charges against me were dropped, just to give you an idea that uh he's uh not interested in coming back to a place that has not the best of memories. On the flip side, if you have the the little guy, I'll start, I'll go with him next, uh Dunan Eney, he has a half dwarf and half gnome. He has a parent from each of those ends. He has a hard time, although he draws from both bloodlines, he has a hard time fitting in with either culture. He's a little bit shorter than a dwarf, but he can't even grow a beard for crying out loud. Um, because just like his uh mother, who has magical influence on nature, he seems to have a similar ability, but specifically on metals and uh crystalline structures. Uh he's not exactly sure how this came to be. He's still figuring out himself. Uh, because of his dynamic of being half and half of two different things, um, he can sit, he he establishes bonds with friends just as close as he would a family member. And you'll see he's often referred to as a social facilitator. This whole story starts simply because Dunanini's coming back to Ivywood, convincing Madrakus to come back, meet up with uh both Chasco and Sarlac to find a means of like a contract, employment to get a short job with a good pay. And uh Dunan is very interesting in the respect of just wanting his friends to do better. Now, uh moving on to the full-blooded dwarf, we have Sarlac. He is a dwarf of uh um he his group of dwarves are not miners, they left the mines generations ago and decided to uh embrace the sunlight and get into uh uh the earth, livestock, crops. And as stubborn dwarves tend to go, they decided that they wanted to do this in the middle of swampland. So, generationally speaking, they have been able to expand and terraform the swamp as they go. Um, but also culturally speaking, because of this, it's it's fantasy, of course, the the swamp is not going to have some nice things in it. So culturally, he's very accustomed to tracking down and pacifying things that go bump in the night. He's very devout to a uh a deity only referred to as the divine, and he wanted to uh contribute to a church in the middle of Ivywood, no dwarves around, so he stands out like a sore thumb. Uh-uh. But he wants to help those less fortunate than himself. So one of those things, if you're going to hold tight to specific convictions, um there are going to be challenges. So some challenges might be just individuals scoffing at you for doing what you're doing, but um there are payoffs too for feeling like you're making a difference, and that's why he does that. So uh because he's so devout to uh this individual known as the divine, he has some blessings, if you will, which involve uh repelling the undead uh in type of a ward or a shield, if you will. You see that a bit in issue one. You will definitely see it in issue three. There's a lot going on. Um he essentially just wants to be a beacon of light in a city that could do better with his presence, he feels. And then the last guy, which uh many people like because they don't know uh whether he's just sneaky for good reasons or walks close to danger, but Chasgo is a blue-skinned elf. Uh Chasgo's specific species of elves are subspecies, I should say. They live in a mountain range that is riddled with silver deposits. And because of this, it explains why their skin is blue. This happens in real life. There are humans that uh ingest a lot of silver, they'll like boil it with electricity into their water. And if you consume it enough, it will actually tattoo your skin blue. It looks fake, it looks like somebody's on set uh to shoot a scene. If you uh
The Four Heroes And Belonging
SPEAKER_00go to one guy was interviewed on Oprah, he looks like Papa Smurf essentially.
SPEAKER_02Um is there any other side effect or just the blue? Because I'm like, hmm.
SPEAKER_00Um, well, here's the interesting thing about silver. Silver at the atomic level, all atoms, if they bond with each other, not to get too nerdy or too excessively boring here. Oh, I love this. Trust, keep going. So atoms have electrons that float around them. There's three things that make an atom in the nucleus there's protons and neutrons, and then around it is the electrons. The electrons float around similar to like moons, how they rotate around a planet. Um there's many different shells of where these electrons can float around. Long story short, the outside, the the furthest outside shell, where if there's any electrons floating around, those electrons can bond to other atoms. Uh and I'll shorten this up as quickly as possible here. If you take iron and it bonds with oxygen, those their outside electrons bond. That's how that works. That's how you make rust. But with silver, silver is really cool because it only has one outside electron. In other words, if it bonds with something, it is now resistant to everything else. So many in um, if you have a lot of people that deal with alloys or alchemy, they'll use silver because as soon as you mix in the silver, you're using the other elements outside electrons up. So it can't really bond. It gives it a high resistance, which is really cool. So a lot of people feel that it's uh uh very uh uh beneficial for health reasons. I can't see how having permanently blue skin is beneficial, but many claim it like it's good for their digestive tract and various other things. Um we gotta get some silver.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I've heard of colloidal silver. Um so this is making sense. But to be honest, being blue sounds fun. Although I know getting back to blue dabba D. That was a song of our childhood together. Yes, it was.
SPEAKER_00Blue Dabba D. Now, Chasgo, who's completely blue dabadee, and it's fantasy, of course. Chasgo's people have uh a high uh resistance to magic. It's fantasy, of course. All this silver coursing through them. Um they have a dysfunctional culture. Uh, first off, they worship the mountain. They think the mountain uh protects them from magic, but in reality, it's just the silver that's rubbing off on them uh that uh gives them this cool feature. Um they're they would be classed as xenophobic, they want nothing to do with outsiders. And because of all of these dynamics I've stated, people vilify these elves known as argers. Um, doesn't matter if you're a merchant or if you're a mercenary or or if you partake in magic. Um there if if there's a longer route to get to an area that involves not going through those mountains, they'll do it just to avoid this group. They're very scary. Now, Chasgo, he feels his people are dysfunctional and he wanted to leave, but where do you go when everybody else is probably going to kill you on sight? He was uh he crossed paths with an individual only known as Annette. In issue one, it's narrated Chazgu was writing a letter to Annette. And uh he was given this chess piece, a rook. It's about the size of his thumb, which he fashioned into a necklace. If he has it on him, he can do some really cool stuff, limited but very cool. He can disguise his appearance. So that's the most critical one. Simply put, he can hide in a city and not be killed on sight. If he was ever discovered, however, that would be a problem. He's worked his way up as a representative of a noble. And uh a lot of people have asked me why would he dance so close to danger? And I said it's a very good question, and it's one I don't want to disclose right now.
SPEAKER_02Lots of intrigue for issue three. I'm I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he also has some really cool dynamics about him. He he has his own little pet called MX. It's a three-eyed crow. It's albino. So cool. He can see through its eyes. A lot of people love an issue two. There's a splash page, I believe it's page six, where it shows him looking through the bird's eyes as they're trying to get a layout of a bandit's hideout before they try to infiltrate it. Uh it's a beautiful work of art. Victor Medina and Dan Kemp working together on that.
SPEAKER_03So he basically has a drone.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's exactly right. He has a drone. He can also speak through it, which you find out in issue two. Um, there's there's a lot of cool things with that bird. Um, what else is cool about Chazgo is uh he has some type of uh he's able to wield light in some form or another. You see him blast it out of his hands at one point, and you will be seeing a lot more of all these things I've listed about Chasgo going into issue three. There's a lot going on. But again, going back and reflecting on all four characters, who am I and how do I fit in the world fits amongst all four of them, but they're expressed very, very differently.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think the way that you have um created their backstories and and also like how they exist visually and the different quirks about them, somebody's gonna be relatable to anyone.
SPEAKER_00I think so. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh, because that question of like who am I and how do I fit in the world, where do I belong, is a universal human one. And I love when those kinds of things are explored through fantasy where it's like a little bit safer, maybe. Um you know what?
SPEAKER_00That's a great way of putting that. I would have never worded it like that. I really like that. It is a safe way to express things. One thing I find in non-indie comics nowadays is they try too closely to relate to reality, where uh although Chasgo here, for example, he hides his physical appearance. Um, I'm sure lots of people kind of feel that way. They wish they could. And I not once have I mentioned anything political, but everybody could probably put their own political spin on it. I I think that should be up for the reader and not for the artist to cross that line. So I I that's a good word. It's a safe way to express a thing because people can interpret it how they want. I really like that.
SPEAKER_02I think it's um, I mean, I think there's also a place for for works uh like Dan's that are very expressly political. And works like yours, I think, are are valuable in the sense that anybody could pick them up from any point of view and relate. Yes. And that is also really important in this time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's also a big value in in what you're saying, which is allowing them to make their own connections. Like I feel like you can hold their hand to some extent to like, you know, may maybe you can be like, you know, people who are different ain't so bad. And like that in this day and age, that's an expressly political opinion, but you could you could give that to somebody and it's like, yeah, well, we're talking about blue elves over here. Um that doesn't apply to me, but not all blue elves are bad elves. Yeah. Now that I think about it, there are some people that don't look like me that I have opinions about. Maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_00Or or uh another one that I could foresee people uh having a political look is Madracus very sight, he's approached by authority. So I I could see a lot of people relating to that in ways. And um although it's not political, that dynamic with Madracus and authority is touched on a little bit going into issue three. There's full circle stuff happening.
SPEAKER_02I cannot wait to see it. Um, I think it's really powerfully done in that way. We have
Silver Lore And Blue Elves
SPEAKER_02to ask you about zombies. So we know um the backstory a little bit that there is a I forget what the drug is called. Can you remind us? Weave. Weave, right. So there's this drug called Weave. There seems to be some tangential connection between weave and people being undead. Can you tell us more about the z the fantasy zombie in your world?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so um, man, you're you're you're asking solid questions and you're almost forcing spoilers at me, but I won't. I won't. Good question. Good questions.
SPEAKER_02Just tell us a little bit about like what people can expect in terms of how how these zombies are gonna move in the world.
SPEAKER_00So in the first one, uh hint, in the first one, they're they're uh they're fast. They're they're almost like it's almost comparable to an animal with rabies. And uh it's it's pretty scary. Yeah. They're I think one of the best depictions of of zombies I've ever seen is the first game of The Last of Us, which eventually became a TV series. But in that, in that game, one of the most terrifying things about those creatures, but when they're still human-like, is if you get their attention, they start running at you. Their vocals still work, but they're not saying words, they're just making sounds. So I'm zombie ASMR. No, no, no, opposite, like like high intensity. Like the the first time I'm like, oh, I'm gonna bottleneck these ones, I gotta get their attention. So I throw a brick at one and then I start running back, and they're on my tail, and I'm feeling a lot of tension, but they're like, Oh, maybe come up! And I'm like, oh man, this is too almost humans, you know. Oh, yeah. It it kind of like blurred the lines between monster and humanity, which made it more uncomfortable. But uh these zombies in uh uh the first one, they're they're like ravenous, and they just as as zombies go want to spread their views, if you will, through bites. And uh that is the first issue. I can't say anything else, but it's a good question.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that answers the question. We know what we're dealing with.
SPEAKER_00Um, if you look at the cover for issue three of Sarlac, he's putting axe to skull. Yes, and uh he's right, and you actually see that word that it was talked about earlier. Um, every every cover I have, I want it to have something to do with what's going on in the book. I like the old style. Uh, I've read almost every issue of Amazing Spider-Man. Um I like, I think it's Amazing Spider-Man 56, where Spider-Man and Doc Ock are robbing a bank together and on the cover, I'm like, well, this doesn't make sense. I'm now interested in reading why this is happening. You find out Peter Parker gets amnesia and Doc Ock fools him into helping him out. And um, I want my comics to have that. So when you see Sarlac smashing up a bunch of skeletons, you will see that in issue three. When you see that main antagonist as she's resurrecting some undead individuals there, you will see that. All of that is going on, but I can't say anything else about how the zombies are going. That's the closest I can get to that line.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate you going getting close. Um, but that's the whole point. We got to see the evolution on uh take place over time. What is the most surprising reaction you've gotten from readers for issue one and two so far?
SPEAKER_00Uh a couple. First one is the dynamic of MX being so uh um utilized in such a way. So as you put it, Dan, it's a drone. At that point, he's a drone, which is from a fantasy setting, you don't see that too often, right? Um, the other one is the combination of uh drugs in a fantasy setting, let alone tied up with a uh an undead scenario. Uh another one I I was surprised, I didn't this was kind of nonchalant to me, but somebody or more than one, they told me that I did a good job. I in the first page I introduced three of the four individuals. And it wasn't, I have one person speaking, saying the name of another while the thing's being narrated by a third. And uh some a couple people rather have told me that that isn't an easy task to do, but I made it flow really nicely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would agree. It's a really easy um comic to follow. And I think that that says a lot about both. I mean, I have no idea how you make a comic, right? Even I've asked a lot of people who've made comics, it still is in the realm of magic for me.
SPEAKER_00Uh you can break it down into four steps. Oh, okay. Write your story, you have a penciler, the person pencils out, then you have the people that tighten up the image and they ink it, and then you have somebody color it. That's it. After that, you've got to letter it, of course, which is a big deal, and then you get a cover. That's the entire process.
SPEAKER_02You made that sound so easy, but I don't think it's that easy.
SPEAKER_00It really is. Anybody can do it. It it just it anybody can do it, that doesn't mean everybody can do it well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's like saying cook cooking a turkey, stuffing onions, the works. Anyone can do it. Not everybody can cook a good turkey.
SPEAKER_03This is true. Yeah, I I've experienced this before.
SPEAKER_00Um you guys must have like twice the turkey, two Thanksgivings, Canadian and American Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you're gonna uh we have to furkee. I can respect that.
SPEAKER_00Even though double the toe furkee.
SPEAKER_02But we don't, and I'll tell you, I've become really Americanized. I don't do the a Canadian one. Like if I go up to Canada, then yes. But because I don't get the day off and um there's nobody here to celebrate it with me, I I've just stopped doing it, which now makes me think well, my family's accusation that I've become an American is true.
SPEAKER_00If you tell all of your neighbors that you're cooking a turkey and invite them over, who's gonna turn down a turkey?
SPEAKER_02Well, what will they do when they find out it's toe firky? They'll probably spring us up in the front yard.
SPEAKER_00If you you probably have vegetarian friends, you tell them they have to make a toe firky, the all the fixings, they'll be there.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it is more fun. It's diabolical, but it's more fun to tell somebody something and that they don't know, and then you tell them later that it's vegetarian. But I think tofer key would I don't think it would pass the muster. You can't you can't pretend that's a turkey.
SPEAKER_00One of my favorite things about vegetarian foods is it you it has to go one or two ways. You you either have an imitation food, it has to taste just like it, or it's disappointment, or you do the opposite. Unapetically
Subtext Without Preaching In Fantasy
SPEAKER_00make it different. Yes. And it's its own thing. For example, I I don't eat pork, but I love turkey bacon, but I'm not eating it because it tastes like bacon. You know, I'm eating it because I like the taste of turkey bacon. I'm not trying to make it taste like bacon kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02That's very true. I think when you get far enough down the road, I'm 12 years in now, I don't remember what things taste like. So I'm actually dangerous. They'll be like, oh yeah, of course this tastes just like bacon, but I don't actually know that. Okay. Some people will be like, no, no, it does not. I do. I'll never forget. Dan will never forget. Uh, but back to the madcaps. I've got some fun questions for you that you might be like, Leah, shut up. These are spoilers.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. If the madcaps party failed in defeating the necromancer, what would Ivywood look like?
SPEAKER_00Um issue one is uh a great uh hint.
SPEAKER_02Okay. It's all you're gonna tell me, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Well, it it I mean, it's you go read issue one, you'll know right away.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um which character, if anyone, do you think any of these characters are capable of betraying each other or their friendship is too strong?
SPEAKER_00Um I think I think that that applies to any friends put in the right circumstances. I mean, I I would love to think that I'm of like brony caliber faith and friendship, like friendship is magic kind of thing. But if you take into account right at the start of this issue, they're just seeing each other for the first time in a while. They're obviously friends, but life gets in the way. So a great example. I know I said this the last time I was on here. I I moved across country and I don't get to see my friends as much as I want to. Now, when I left, I felt like I was going on this adventure, and a very small sliver of me feels like I'm still on that adventure, but I have a well-established career, I have a wife and children. Um, my friends aren't going to get between me and that. And so I my friends are still my friends. I guess where I'm going with this, if you put certain circumstances on the line here, I think my friends would understand me not putting them first. I think that's a real test of true friendship there. When even a friend can understand if you're gonna quote unquote betray them.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Yeah, I think it uh this brings me to like an existential question of like what's betrayal versus just prioritization, you know, because I think it's like one thing, because I'm also far away from my family and friends in Canada, as you know. And um, for example, when I go up to Canada, I'm like, hey, you can come visit me. I am not driving all over.
SPEAKER_00I can relate to that.
SPEAKER_02And yes, seeing my family is my first priority. Like seeing my mom is my first priority. My dad, not so much. That's why I keep trying to adopt you. Um I'll never listen to this, so I know that. Well, now I'm worried. Bleep that out, Dan. No kidding.
SPEAKER_00Um Hey, I I'll I'll do the internet stalking this time. I will find him and I'll send this issue to him. Or this episode rather.
SPEAKER_02Good luck. Yeah. He's a hard one to find out there. Uh, but in all seriousness, I understand that. And I think friends do too. So I hear what you're saying. Whereas if I told my friend I was gonna show up for their wedding, let's say, and then I just didn't, that feels like a betrayal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they'll they'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but you the des the disappointment will still be there, that's for sure.
Fantasy Zombies And What To Expect
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I think any any friend will understand if you have a good reason for doing something, but uh if if you do not give a reason or the reason is dumb, then then that but then I mean that that lowers the value of the friendship. So like can you can you really even claim that you're the the greatest of friends if you're willing to betray your friend for a stupid reason?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like prioritizing your family, your immediate family feels different. But here's another way of getting at this question Is there any character that's going to surprise us a lot in this final issue?
SPEAKER_00Every single one of them. Wow. Um, one of the things about if you've ever played a tabletop RPG, um I'll I'll parallel this also to pugilism, the love of boxing. You can jab all day, big haymakers will tarry you out. Um, we haven't seen a lot of the haymakers yet. And DD, they call them spell slots. The really cool stuff usually costs something that you have to sleep on to get back. And uh we haven't seen any really big cool stuff yet.
SPEAKER_02So I think before we started recording, you showed us uh some of the cover images that all am I allowed to say more about it. So there's gonna be three covers that actually make up a bigger picture and you get a glimpse of two of the big bads, correct? That's correct. It's uh frigging gorgeous. Like I'm trying to actively convince Ray to make it a uh add-on for me to also purchase as the full poster. Uh, but I I am curious if you could tell us a little bit about who the big bads are, what we can expect there.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, uh first and foremost, shout out to Rod Ramos Rodolfo, who drew that for me. He's out in Brazil. Um, he is one of the many reasons I call this an international project. Uh, if it's just two countries, I just say it's two countries. But if you have more than two, it's international. So here we are. Um Colored by Dan Kemp, of course. Um, those two really synergize very well. Um, the one on the left that is also the one shown in the Heart of Celtera's main antagonist cover, uh, the elven necromancer. And then on the right is a giant hairy leg. Um by the time this comes out, you will see a trailer which will let you see this thing's face. It's not a spider. And I this is the first time I'm saying this out loud to anybody. I feel honored. By the time this podcast comes out, everybody will have seen that trailer. But um, that is the only context you'll get the rest of the rest of it, you have to get the the book to find out.
SPEAKER_02How do you decide what to like keep back and what to reveal?
SPEAKER_00If it's really cool, I torture myself and not show anybody. That's it. That sounds really hard. This this is the third April I've been releasing an issue. It's been over two years where I've had to just not talk about this issue. And for an extrovert like me, that is the the only proper word is torture. I've been wanting to talk about this book forever.
SPEAKER_02We should have you on um when all three are out and we can actually talk about the arc. I'm I'm totally game for that.
SPEAKER_03You know, that brings up an interesting thought is that like, you know, we talk to people who write novels a lot, and when you write a novel, uh you keep it a secret until it's released. And then when it's released, everybody who wants to read it reads it and they know the story. They might have questions about the second book, and you're just like, well, you're like, oh, you'll have to wait till the second book, I guess. But making a comic, I imagine that there's so many people that read like the first issue, and they're like, I need to know what happens next. And you just have to like grit your teeth and be like, you're gonna have to wait for that one.
SPEAKER_00Uh usually I say, like, I'm I'm looking forward to the next issue. What happens with this? Usually my answer is vague, like, you're welcome, or something like that. But uh um it it it's very tough. I've had some cool theories, and I've just kind of like I can't even confirm or deny the theories. Usually it's it's very vague, like that's very interesting, or that's a cool observation, and it just dies at that. But by the time um issue three comes out, I can speak about all of the dynamics that have been speculated leading up to this point of this podcast.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm wondering if you're not like, well, actually, let me rephrase this. Will you be drinking our tears in the same way that Lori Calcatara likes to drink the tears of her readers?
SPEAKER_00That's an interesting observation. Um, I don't think anybody uh can make a person cry as much as uh Lori can in regards to readers. So I'm not even gonna compare myself to that. I'm just gonna leave that one dead in the water.
SPEAKER_03That's very humble. Um, I imagine this is also uh kind of parallel to how it is to run a uh a DD campaign, which is like you you play part, like you know, a comic and a DD campaign, like you have to show up several times to get the whole story. So like at the end of the session, everyone's
Reader Reactions And Comic Process
SPEAKER_03like, Yeah, but what was the deal with the key? We found it. What's the key for? And you're like, I don't know. That's very mysterious.
SPEAKER_00That's that's a really great point. Um, side note in the campaign, you will there's only six people that'll be able to buy into this. You can play with uh uh Michael Towson. I've done this in the last two campaigns. Michael Towsen, he's a professional voice actor. He's worked for William Shatner, Disney. Anyone that knows the the kids' cartoon from 10, 15 years back, Talking Tom and Friends, he was Talking Tom. Um, he's a dungeon master, professional, and uh when you buy into that uh tier, you'll get to play a one-shot with him. If there's enough room, I will also join, but I I wait and see who's all buying in first. And Michael is uh a great pro DM. When people buy into that, people will be getting um uh this guy's professional library of ability. And more importantly, the reason it costs money to play with him, I don't make it any money off that tier. All that money goes for his services. So I'm not even profiting in any way. I just like having fun and playing DD with people.
SPEAKER_02That's really generous of you. I've tried uh what did I what did I try to play, Dan? I already forget what it's called. Pathfinder. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's the first time I tried anything, Ray. Um, not because I don't think that this stuff is cool, but just because I haven't had the opportunity and I'm not good at it. I tried to be an elf. I tried to be, I already forget what kind of elf I was. But it was, I'm like, I don't know how to do this. I think it's a it's a real skill to operate like that.
SPEAKER_00I'll tell you right now, if you buy into that campaign, um Michael is really good. Within 15 minutes, you will be in your element. He's really good at getting people put together. He's fast and efficient in regards to getting everything established. A lot of the fun in my own personal opinion as a dungeon master is sitting back and letting people write stories for you. So he'll he obviously has milestones set up, but sometimes some of the things we do, the dungeon master doesn't even foresee. And it's it's a good time. I really appreciate when players break my plans because it shows that they're actually thinking and they're contributing, and usually I reward them in some way. If they want to try something I didn't foresee, well, let's see where this rabbit hole goes, and we have a lot of fun. I think you have a lot of fun playing with him.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Yeah, maybe I'll try again. I I love it when when when that happens, when it just kind of starts to feel like you're there. Yes. In adulthood I I haven't really experienced that the the way that I did in in my childhood playing role-playing games. And I and and I wonder maybe when I was like you know 19 years old uh in training in the army and we're sitting in the barracks playing D D which probably people don't picture soldiers doing that but some some do. That sounds like a good time. It is and like maybe I just had a really great DM back then that like kind of ruined my expectations.
SPEAKER_00If you if you have a bad DM it's easy to work around that because if your player is complimenting what the DM's trying to get usually your reactions give opportunities and openings for the DM to play out. It's it's possible to reciprocate both ways in that way.
SPEAKER_02I wish I understood that but I don't I'm sorry Ray. But you're gonna have to join us man I under I guess so yeah I understand your explanation of um see nope I already forget the met the science you shared that's how my brain works but it made yes I understood the science of silver more than I understand the science and art of DD so far but I'm gonna keep trying because it does sound fun.
SPEAKER_00I also think it's a good opportunity to exercise your creativity I'll give you a great example of improv one time um one current get together I've told this story a couple times on a couple different podcasts um I was the DM and only two players were available. Where they currently were in the story involved they're at a castle um it was run by a king and there was some orcs coming towards the castle no context the king has no idea everybody gets their guards ready everybody's all everybody armors up and the players wish to scout ahead and see if they can get any critical information on the orcs. So one is a fighter and the other one is a sneaky rogue. So the fighter they travel about halfway between the castle and the oncoming orcs and the fighter says I'm gonna take some I want to take some branches and sharpen the ends and I want to stick them in the ground. That way I can use it as a barrier if we're gonna fight these guys and I could slow them down in a bottleneck style. So I said sure um I'm gonna get you to do a constitution check so after his role he gets like a 24 because he's a very hardy individual and I said okay for the next hour you're gonna be sharpening poles and you're gonna be able to make 24 of them he says great I'll work with that and then the rogue on the flip side he says I while he's doing that I would like to scout ahead and see exactly what I can get my uh eyes on them. I want to see if they have any logos on them if they're representing a specific house yada yada yada so he goes halfway between the fighter and the orcs and he says okay I'm hidden in the bush successful stealth check he says okay I'm gonna use my telescope and I want to spy them so I said okay perception check he rolls a natural one now in DD if you roll a one or a 20 it's a critical failure or a critical success. So this could be like knocking somebody out with a bag of feathers if you roll a critical 20. You just do that perfect clean shot. He did the opposite where he he he critically fails. So I said to him you see a large man sitting on a rock sharpening sticks and wedging them into the ground because he's looking the wrong way he's looking at his buddy sharpening the sticks instead of looking out at the orcs coming in. So um that improv I did would have never happened unless he did that. And then on the flip side if I give some information they'll come up with really really cool stuff. So that that that whole scenario of them leaving the castle I did not foresee and because of it it made a really cool dynamic in the story because the players wanted to do something. That's it.
SPEAKER_02When you were writing the Mad Caps did you have any of those in I know you can't share spoilers but did you have any of those internal experiences where like oh whoa I didn't expect this to happen or for this character to do that.
SPEAKER_00Well um this story is based off of the first homebrew campaign I ever made and I only made this homebrew campaign because I needed excuses to hang out with my friends via webcam the over 15 years ago almost 20 years ago now. And um the only difference is I took out the player or the characters that the players are playing as and I injected in my own uh characters so I was actually surprised
Betrayal Friendship And Big Surprises
SPEAKER_00how well the story melted together with the milestones I pre-established in conjunction with making sure they synergized well with each other I was very happy with how it all took together it was it was quite easy I found it.
SPEAKER_02That's really cool. Let's talk about your Kickstarter. Let's do it uh what did you learn from doing issues online two that is going to feed into how issue three Kickstarter is going to play out for you.
SPEAKER_00Um well I wrote the script for all three so there's nothing in regards to the comic itself um one thing I am trying is I have a glow in the dark cover of Chazgo. Uh that's on the pre-launch right now you can see Chasgo anything white on that cover is going to be glow in the dark. Awesome. And uh I'm also trying a lava foil cover. So that's the one of Dunanini walking away from the flaming building that's going to be all lava foil and it's gonna look pretty darn awesome I think. Anything that wasn't that successful in regards to tiers or add-ons and issues one and two I'm omitting because people aren't really that interested. We're trying a couple of different things as well um we're doing there will be and this is for any diehard fan there is the we're calling it the Madcap's omnibus or let before I say that there's going to be the entire issue three campaign so all of the covers uh all of uh there's uh you can pick one blanket and one t-shirt of choice and uh there's the map character sheets that uh are formatted so you can play as level five characters in the DD campaign um all together in one package but there's also the omnibus which includes everything I've just said it but also all five issues to issue one and all or all five covers rather to issue one and all five covers to issue number three as well there's also pinups and various other things you'll see in there but uh um any diehard fan if you want to get the entire experience you'll be able to get it in one big uh robust package that's awesome you know I'm here for the art so I can't wait to see the pinups too and just knowing about those three covers that all go together I'm already like thinking about how uh if I if you don't end up doing like a poster thing of all of it I might figure out a way to display them together as one image on my wall. Well it's funny you mentioned the uh the the pinups um as people know Kickstarters have stretch goals and I can't say anything else because they're gonna be hidden but that's all I'll say on that.
SPEAKER_02Well let's talk about what your stretch goals are so that uh I can help you make get them so that I can see these things.
SPEAKER_00So first stretch goal will be uh funding it the next stretch goal and onward are hidden. I can tell you that the three issue uh poster is not a stretch goal but uh there may be something else there. So that's all I could say about that.
SPEAKER_02I love knowing now that it actually hurts you as much as it hurts me to not tell us things. It makes me feel slightly better about it.
SPEAKER_00Well the only reason I don't tell anybody anything is because I want to break even at least on this I don't want to spoil it that's that's the only thing that stops me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah are you planning on doing or have you been doing um any what's I'm not festivals that's the wrong word. Cons.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um I want to get all three issues out there first and then make a plan after that. I've found that in most people when they go into cons there it's only worth it if they have at least a trade paperback. So we'll see. I I go to the local Comic Con here every year, but uh I've always been just a uh a ticket buyer and going in and seeing all the cool stuff. I've yet to be behind the table yet.
SPEAKER_02I think you'd do really well because you're so good at just having conversations with people. Yeah. Thanks.
SPEAKER_03I mean I I did it and I I I hate being around large groups of people Dan needed some CBD to deal with the level of crowd. Yeah you know it worked out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah and I think you've got a good story you're good at sharing about it and to have the three like you said the three issue be complete and ready to go like people are going to eat that up for sure Ray.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I'm I'm very excited to see where this goes it's
Big Bads Trailer And Spoilers
SPEAKER_00been a positive experience so far.
SPEAKER_02And what's next for you after this like are you already have you already been homebrewing haha any other stories? Yeah or is this going to be your focus for a while is getting this out there in the world what's next for you?
SPEAKER_00I have a lot of pots on the back burner but I only stir one at a time. When this third campaign is done I'll be making a decision then.
SPEAKER_02There's too many moles to whack for the madcaps right now that trying to add other moles to whack for other back burner projects the the metaphor of the mole that's when you have to do something.
SPEAKER_03Oh paying bills that arises so you got all these pots right and the pots are in the back burners and sometimes moles come out of the pots.
SPEAKER_00No no no no all the pots is the fun that's when you get to play. Yeah but you gotta whack those moles before they get to the pots. You know what that's a very solid point. I I would go with that but but point in hand you you if there's responsibility this isn't my day job so that's why it's one issue a year and my my family and uh my day job are obviously going to take priority over that and uh paying bills and whatnot are coming priority but if I because of my level of responsibility I'm I'm a little spread out I can't look at the other ones yet it would just not I I'm just happy I got to finish these three issues. I've never done it before and to be on the end of this journey and look back and be man I actually pulled this together. This is this is amazing. So if I was looking at four or five different things at a time I don't think I would have finished this book.
SPEAKER_02I think that's really wise and something to be very proud of and I I also wonder like how your kids react to this how much they know about it. Because I feel like it's a really good speaking of being a dad they've seen you really plug away at something and be dedicated to it it wasn't about getting it done overnight. It was about doing it slowly and now you're gonna have this incredible outcome.
SPEAKER_00Yes the they they really like all the characters I've said a little bit about them. My son asked about it. My son said at our school yeah my my dad makes a comic and nobody would believe him. My son is upset in this era that's that's a hard thing to believe. So um I think this book is suited for 13 plus because there is a mild amount of gore in it. But um it's it's really funny because one time I went to pick up my son my son says my friend doesn't believe that you've made the comic book and he says can you show him one picture so I show one picture and he says later I said have they been bugging you at all about it more they said no they were actually surprised they think I'm cool now apparently cool by association.
SPEAKER_03Yeah cool dad yeah you achieved it you did the the did the impossible which is to become a cool dad it is hard I I've ascended the ranks apparently oh my gosh it is always so fun to talk to you.
SPEAKER_00What have we not asked you that we should before we finish Ray um well you can find me on socials uh Facebook is DM Ray my profile picture is of the Madcaps issue one uh you can find my Facebook madcaps page um you can find me on Instagram as Raymond the DM because DM Ray was taken um but more importantly you go yeah I hate that DM Ray we got there can only be one is out you know we gotta talk to that DM right yeah I'm gonna DM them right now yeah yeah we're gonna dungeon master that direct messenger um but the the campaign by the time you uh hear this podcast it's live so um you can get all three issues it's one complete story it takes place in the first issue that first couple of pages the sun's going down by the final page the sun is going up you will feel trapped in the night with these four it is an homage to a level of camaraderie of if you have friends that you don't get to see as much as you do and your very essence is recharged even if it's only seeing them for five minutes in a parking lot as they pass through the city. It's told with the theme of fantasy through the medium of comic book and any of the last handful of sentences if any of those things resonate with you I guarantee you you will appreciate this story beginning middle and end you don't have 70 years of lore to have memorized to get every reference you could just jump in and jump out and appreciate it for what it is back now.
SPEAKER_02Love it Ray it's a great story it's beautiful visually it's relatable like I said earlier anybody could pick it up
DnD One Shot Tier And Creativity
SPEAKER_02and see themselves in at least one character and I love that it's all over the course of one night. So cannot wait to learn something about silver.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yes and maybe next time you know when you're on the podcast I'll be blue and you'll know why it's your fault I will I will get you in trouble and claim you went blue face all the argurs in Ivywood will be so mad at you I'll just stay out of Ivywood that's for sure unless unless uh Chasgo teaches me his trick.
SPEAKER_02It's his magic yeah how to hide. Yes um but Chasgo shouldn't have to hide. That's part of the beautiful like that's why I love this series because it's like it really gets to those feelings of experience of of those kinds of things.
SPEAKER_00I think my favorite thing about it is it isn't these things happen and they shouldn't because I mean we've all had those discussions and I think all of us with university agree on on those dynamics. I think the best thing about telling such a thing in story is not about whether bad thing is bad, but what are you going to do with that reality? How do you act in such a scenario? I think that's the best way to uh to work with such a dynamic yeah I love you dad life life lesson uh that's pertinent to our current world yeah yeah just just move on with life and uh maybe people be inspired to move on with you yeah I love that dad isms so many great dad have I made you extremely uncomfortable yet definitely not this is not the weirdest podcast I've been on don't you worry oh well now I want the intel on that you if you need to you can tell us after we finish recording.
SPEAKER_02Drop us a link we want to know about this podcast drop us a link well thank you so much for joining us raid this has been a pleasure everybody go to the Kickstarter right now go back this if you haven't gotten issue one and two you've got a chance to get all three all at once which you know is the best way to dive into a story.
SPEAKER_03Yeah all the links in the description everything that we discussed I'll put it down there you'll just all you have to do is click on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and and maybe a stretch goal or something a surprise and stretch goal is like Ray is your dad for the day and sends you like some random fatherly advice. Yeah you uh I make no promises but I'll definitely consider it how to you'll come home from from uh work or school and uh Ray will be there and be like you want a grilled cheese sandwich buddy that's uh that's a say no you want ground beef in that grilled cheese okay everybody have a beautiful day night wherever you are and go back that Kickstarter thank you so much Ray thank you kindly by everybody by