Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
The Poo-pocalypse with Special Guest Sarah Lyons Fleming | Zombie Book Club Ep 140
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We invited zombie author Sarah Lyons Fleming back to Zombie Book Club to tackle the most skipped-over survival problem in the genre: waste management. From bucket toilet setups and compost toilets to venting methane and humanure composting, Sarah brings the same practical, prepper-brained logic she builds into her fiction; because a believable survivor community has to solve what comes in and what goes out.
We critique the worst toilet solutions in zombie TV, shout out the books that actually get it right, and put Sarah through a gauntlet of Poo-Pocalypse scenarios; including being trapped in a public bathroom with zombies and a very urgent biological need. Whether you're a writer, a zombie fan, or just someone who has finally started appreciating modern plumbing, this one will change how you look at every post-apocalyptic story you've ever loved.
👤 Guest Contact & Links — Sarah Lyons Fleming
- Website: sarahlyonsfleming.com
- Facebook: facebook.com/SarahLyonsFleming
- Amazon Author Page: amazon.com/stores/author/B00DXFM03O
- Audible: audible.com/author/Sarah-Lyons-Fleming/B00DXFM03O
🔗 Links Relevant to Topics Discussed
- History of TV Bathrooms (EW/CNN): ew.com/tv/watch-evolution-of-tv-bathrooms-cnn-history-sitcom/
- Zombie Ass: Toilet of the Dead trailer: imdb.com/video/embed/vi571654937/
- Zombie Poop Recipe (Instructables): instructables.com/ZOMBIE-POOP/
- Reddit thread — Do Zombies Poop? (r/thewalkingdead): reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/137mkv/do_zombies_poop/
- The Zombie Poop Song: youtube.com/watch?v=cRtmc7hCMQ8
- Sarah's book series in order: bookseriesinorder.com/sarah-lyons-fleming/
Zombie Book Club Links
- Join us on on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/ZombieBookClub
- ZBC Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zombiebookclubpodcast/
- ZBC Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/710957975263518/
- Zombie Book Club Email: ZombieBookClubPodcast@gmail.com
Welcome To Zombie Book Club
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book has pooped. I'm Dan and I never poop. But if I did, it would be incredible. And when I'm not doing not pooping, I'm writing a book about a safe zone at LaGuardia Airport after a zombie apocalypse, and pooping is going to be a problem.
SPEAKER_02It's actually true. I can verify Dan does not poop. He does close the bathroom door, and we call it contemplating the universe because he's sometimes in there for a while. Well, that's just where I look at my phone. And I'm Leah. And you're hearing the beautiful voice of Sarah Lyons Fleming because she is back on the show, everybody. I'm back, bitches. Yeah, to talk about one of the most divisive topics in the zombie apocalypse genre. Pooping. Do we talk about it? Do we not talk about it in a zombie apocalypse? Sarah certainly does. If you want the full deep dive into her expansive, interconnected zombie universe and the 11 novels she has crafted so far within it, head back to episode 121 for our first conversation because Sarah is truly the shit. Welcome back.
SPEAKER_05And how fitting to have me on the poop episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think you're you know, we're probably the most prolific writer about poop.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I well, you know, it's if you're trying to be realistic, you can't escape it. We all have to poop and pee like every day. Yeah. Multiple times a day sometimes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Some of us.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you don't, Dan.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't.
SPEAKER_05Except Dan.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I'm not familiar with this.
SPEAKER_02It's really true. I can't he can't talk about it. So I'm gonna find this episode really entertaining. Because it'll never be about you pooping, I don't think. I don't think you'll be willing to talk about that. Uh, because I've never done it. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't want to speak from a place of inexperience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like I'd love to say this is a joke. It's not a joke. Dan's never pooped, as far as I know. He won't acknowledge it further. That's where we're at. On that note, everybody. Look, I'm I'm saving it up, all right? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03You're full of shit.
SPEAKER_02Food warning. Uh listening to this episode, please don't. I mean, you could be eating if it's not going to affect you, but um if you're thinking about eating chocolate, pudding, refried beans, natural peanut butter, anybody, anything else you think would be particularly challenging?
SPEAKER_01Like a like a thick stew. Yeah. Just avoid those types of food.
SPEAKER_02Anything brown. Yeah. Anything brown, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um brownies.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Make sure that they're well cooked. Don't have undercooked brownies.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Maybe also making brownies is a bad idea right now.
SPEAKER_05Nothing brown with corn studded in it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Don't don't be making a meatloaf right now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
The Real World Feels Apocalyptic
SPEAKER_02I'm already disgusted. I'm glad I'm not eating. I am drinking a shit colored drink of uh actually, I won't say it because I hate this company, but I desperately needed caffeine. It's a cola of some kind. Um, Sarah, before we get into the poop talk, on a scale of poops, how shitty are you feeling about the current apocalypse in America? How are you doing?
SPEAKER_05Like infinity poops. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a lot of poops.
SPEAKER_05It's a lot of shit. I mean, and every day it's like you feel like you've just wiped it off you, you're clean, and it's like another fucking load on top, you know.
SPEAKER_01The shit keeps coming.
SPEAKER_05It rolls down. It keeps coming. It's the only thing that trickles down.
SPEAKER_01That's really true.
SPEAKER_05I wasn't expecting a little Ronald Reagan, you know, um page. Yeah. Uh yeah, no, I mean, this is it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_01It's it's it's definitely a really wild time in history.
SPEAKER_05Um and it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_01It's really hard to like pinpoint one thing that sucks because there's just so many things that suck.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but there's there are some things that are going well. And I like to focus on those because I I love it. I love it when they lose, and I'm just trying to focus on all of their losses.
SPEAKER_05Yes. Yes, that helps.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Sometimes I think about, you know, the Nuremberg trials part two. And that brings a smile to my face. Um yeah. There's a time. I know I sound I sound evil, but they're evil. So, you know, well, it's it's justice.
SPEAKER_01Like what what we are craving as a society is justice. We're in a uh a world where justice is used as as a as a way to beat down the rest of us.
SPEAKER_02The only way we're gonna get justice is if they eat their own shit.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna make them eat their own shit.
SPEAKER_02I said it. I'll own it.
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I feel like that sounds like a perfect punishment to me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If if we can if if justice is served, what does that look like? It does it look like them having to eat their own shit.
SPEAKER_02Like I mean, I'm not gonna want to watch that version of a Nuremberg trial. I do. Oh, that you that's good for you. Um on the flip side, something more fun to ask you about how you've been doing, because it's been a few months since we talked. It was when when did we was it October, November? November. Was it November? I'll end of February now. This is gonna come out in a few weeks, so it'll be the future. Hopefully, better weather. Everybody, you all missed our very um fascinating Northeastern weather talk, which is like an essential conversation to have when you've been either lived in Vermont or are currently living in Vermont. So when this comes out, hopefully the weather's a little bit better for everybody. And I'm curious, you know, when we talked last, writing had been challenging because of the level of shit in the world. How has it been going?
SPEAKER_05Um, I'd say better, actually. I kind of like was I've had to sort of step back and it's like, well, if I don't know what's going on, then how will I be prepared to like fight it? And then I'm like, all right, dude, but you know, you gotta like pull back and like focus on you know your own stuff too. Like you have to work, you have to, you know, pay your mortgage. So um, so I have actually been doing better with that. Um, you know, now with 40% less Zoom scrolling. Um for you. Like, yeah. So um so yeah, so I'm actually getting things done now. Readers will be happy to hear who are all like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, well, blame those rich fucks because I think it's important too to remember that like there's so many ways to fight injustice right now that like what you do is actually fighting that. Um and sometimes, you know, we're out here, we're writing our our zombie stories and you know, doing this and doing that. And it doesn't feel like it's like it's like it's really making a difference or or anything. But like somebody connects with that and they can learn things from it. And yeah, these stories are they're to help people learn and cope.
SPEAKER_02Also just like surviving together in community, which is something we always need to do as a species, but I think we've forgotten how to, and your stories do such a good job of like reminding us what community can actually look like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And even as an escape, I mean, you know, reading reading books, like it's just such a lovely place to go and be, and you know, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I love that my like relaxation space is just another apocalypse, one where you don't have to pay your mortgage, right?
SPEAKER_05Yes, I've been I've been reading and um audio listening audiobooks to a whole bunch of um survival stories, which is like I love survival stories and I have like a very um like I have sort of an obsession with like Antarctic and Arctic exploration and like the 18 and nine early 1900s and even late 1700s, like um, so I've just sort of like pulled up all the old favorites, found new ones that have been written since then I've been in this like Arctic 1800s apocalypse zone, you know. Um, and yeah, like it helps. It feels like a good place to be, and it's like not at all, but you know.
SPEAKER_02If you had a recommendation for us newbies to Apocalypse or not, wow, see, it's just in my head. I meant to say Arctic Adventures. What would be
Writing While Your Brain Is Threatened
SPEAKER_02like your starter book?
SPEAKER_05Um, okay, so I'm terrible with remembering all the titles. I would, I would um, I could give you a list to post with you um that the like the um the Jeanette was a ship that got stuck in the ice. Um obviously Franklin is like one of the most famous ships of the um, you know, you had the terror. And um who else? Oh my god. Oh, well, here, I mean, the one of the best books ever is Endurance. Um, and it's about Shackleton, um, Ernest Shackleton, who went to the Antarctic and he had this plan of walking across. Well, he tried to get to the pole, South Pole, and he and he had this plan to walk across um Antarctica because the pole had already been gotten. He's like, Well, what's left to do? So he's like, I'm gonna, we're all gonna walk across the continent because no one's ever done that. And oh my god, what this group went through, and you know, in some of them, it's like everybody's dead. Like with Franklin, they didn't even know what happened to him. They were like, Wow, for until they're like, I don't know, 2012 or 13, they found they finally found the boats. Wow. Um, but that had sunk. But Shackleton's journey is the kind of and with his men, is the kind of journey where if they had it in a movie, you'd be like, okay, stop. Like that's just ridiculous. Like, is this guy is this guy freaking Superman? Like, he need it is and endurance is so well written. So that would actually be my first like, do that. Read that one first. And then I can give you a list of like 20 more.
SPEAKER_02Is there cannibalism in endurance? Because I just like assume that there has to be.
SPEAKER_05No. Oh wow. Okay, then I'm I'm damn there are in some of the books there are in some some expeditions. Um, a lot didn't. Um, some did, but but you know, um, and sometimes it just wasn't spoken about either. So the the book might say, you know, well, I kind of found some bones with some knife marks on them. You know, but I mean, you know, but they don't get they don't get into the nitty-gritty really, usually. Um but yeah, so I would start with endurance and shackleton. And then when you get to the end of this book, you'll be like, oh my god, this guy, this fucking guy, man, but it's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_02Maybe it should be a movie. I'm glad to hear that it doesn't involve cannibalism explicitly because we finished watching Yellow Jackets recently. I don't know if you've seen that, but like I haven't seen the last one.
SPEAKER_05The last one.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to spoil it for anybody listening either. Great show, but wow, I don't need to see any more cannibalism for a while.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I almost forgot about that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I have not. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I remember at the beginning in one of the first seasons, there was a bit of that going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's intense. Um, speaking of cannibalism and zombies, any hints for your fans? What's what's uh what can they look forward to from you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, are they going to Antarctica?
SPEAKER_05Um, no. But I would really I've I've always I've for years have been like, how can I write a book that takes place in the Arctic? Just because like I've I've been obsessed with this Arctic exploration really since my 20s, and I hate being cold. I love trees. I don't want to be in this flat, like treeless place where like you just get stuck on the ice, but for some reason I'm like obsessed with reading about it. Um, so I would I would be fun to write about, but I don't really know what I would do up there.
SPEAKER_04Maybe you're incombinated.
SPEAKER_05Maybe, maybe I'm like one of those expressions. Maybe you're shackleton. Yeah, I'm shackled. Oh, I wish I were a man, a man kicked ass. I could be a polar bear. Um yeah, so what can they expect? Um, the next book, eventually. I'm sorry, everybody. Um I promise I am back in gear and working on it and feeling organized because I started using a writing program that scrivener, that like all my research, that is the hardest part of the first draft, um, is uh like I can put it there instead of being like, wait, what link was that? What thing is that? And it's all
Arctic Survival Books Worth Reading
SPEAKER_05like in, and I'm feeling very efficient. That's like my this is like my ADHD, like hyper focus, like, oh my god, I'm feeling so efficient, but I have to make that continue because you know, then it's all like Yeah, a squirrel can run by and then the system's gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I'm really like, I was excited. I'm like, I'm gonna put this in there later. So I'm hoping that because I do love writing, so I don't know, I feel like having the things that I need there will be a continuous thing that I can do instead of you know, one of my I'm gonna start a daily planner, and then it's January 8th, and I haven't done it for three days, and then never again.
SPEAKER_02The number of journals that I used to have, where there'd be like one page. Oh, I bought so many really cool.
SPEAKER_05I oh my god, I I have so many notebooks, and there's so many that I really love. And then I'm like, well, are you notebook worthy of this project? And then I'm like, no, I don't think you are. So I have to put that one back. And then I go through all the notebooks and I'm like, oh god, like I don't feel like any of these notebooks, like I'd like like my what I'm gonna put in it doesn't deserve. Yeah. It's kind of, yeah. But then I forget about it anyway. So, you know, don't do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, you know, you s you said that it was it's been kind of difficult to be to to be writing in this world right now. Um I've also experienced that. I feel like this week was like the first time I'd written anything significant in like months.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I was I've been like kind of trying to like figure out why this is. Because it's it's not it's not just us. It's that's it's a lot of it's a lot of writers out there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So yeah, you know, like I had this this I this thought that um so like when COVID hit, you sort of had that like they kept saying you you had the you sort of went to survival mode. Yeah. But there wasn't like a you weren't, you know, running from zombies. There wasn't a thing that you were really like fighting, fighting, but you're like so many people's brains went into survival mode where it was much harder to do these daily tasks because your brain is telling your body, and your body is telling your brain, hey, we need to be on the lookout, we need to be safe. There is a threat, we are under threat, even though we'd be like, okay, we're really not under that much threat, brain. We're sitting in the house and like we just made sourdough bread, you know. But um, but I feel like this past year for me has felt similar.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because I feel like we are under threat. We are under attack. And even if it's not some people, for for you know, unfortunately for some people, it is an actual attack, like, you know, being yanked off the streets and being sent to horrendous detention centers and things like that. But for you know, just watching our entire system crumble, watching like the law mean nothing, the constitution is like who gives a shit? You know, I mean, it's it puts you in that same sort of mode, that same like, so your brain doesn't have a lot of the like little nuances because it's like big picture, I need to live. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Um, and I I kind of feel like I have that same, that similar feeling of we got to get through this. And it makes it really hard to focus on creativity in particular for any creative person. If you are seeing this and it is concerning to you, it is harder to do that creative thing because the creative part of your brain is thinking of creative strategies to survive what's happening. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, so like, I mean, and it's a real thing, you know. Um, and I feel like that's a bit of what's been going on. And so I've been trying to be like, okay, like you can do things and then you can also do work and I, you know, and get that creativity back. And also I'm like, well, then maybe I should just write my my technostate apocalypse book. Because that's what's happening.
SPEAKER_01That'd also be great.
SPEAKER_05At least halfway, you know?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I found that that's also just kind of been this like emotional pressure that's just keeps building and building, and like writing and creativity often just it's it's like an emotional energy that you put into something. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_01When when you sit down to write, you're like trying to access the right emotions to write the correct thing. And when it just keeps on building up, it's like it's like you don't like if it it's not like the are you constantly the over the override valve is not going off for some reason. It's like it's rusty and like the safety valve isn't going off, and it's just building pressure and pressure, and like trying to get it back to a safe level seems almost impossible.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and and trying, like we were saying too, trying to put your your yourself in the headspace of a character who's dealing with something, but it's not what you're dealing with, and you're at this heightened, you know, that pressure point. It's really hard to get yourself into them. You're like, yeah, yeah, I yeah, I agree.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It feels like pressure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Uh well, this is why we need to talk about poop. Poop is pressure. It is. That's why I said it's also like you've been calling. We know what it is. Oh, that's a good point. Well, he he does also I've read books. Other fact about Dan and Poop is one of the favorite things Dan loves to do is watch our dogs poop. Oh, yeah. Like dogs.
SPEAKER_05Like when the tail pumps.
SPEAKER_01I like it when the tail goes just straight out and it's like stiff as a board, and they're there they're hunched over, and it's like, oh, that dog's about to have a good time.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Vicarious satisfaction that you'll never experience.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Too bad for you. Sarah, what about your love of poop? Um my love of poop. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I have to say I'm not a fan of poop itself. Um, but I do love to talk about it. And I don't like when it's left out of a conversation or like, you know, a scenario because it's just like you can't ignore it. And when you have, then I feel like it's lacking. And it also just kind of pulls you out of the story a little bit. Like, how can these people be magically going to the bathroom someplace? And you know, like, what are they doing?
SPEAKER_02Like, Dan.
SPEAKER_05Right. Well, maybe, but I mean, you pee. People have to pee too, and that's a lot. Maybe.
SPEAKER_02Maybe you I pee like every hour. So I've peeed a couple times. That's a real like in the zombie apocalypse, peeing would probably be the harder part because it would need to happen a lot. And like maybe I just get used to just like pulling down my pants and going for it any chance like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I know. I feel like that's so unfair that we have to do that. We should all get those little pink cone things. You know, the yeah, the I've always wondered though, when you use those, then what do you do?
SPEAKER_02Then it has pea in it. Oh, it actually has like a hose, so it goes onto the ground.
SPEAKER_05Well, no, no, I know. But but then it's it like it itself, once you're done, the peas on the ground, you're holding a thing that had pea running through it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you gotta rinse it out.
SPEAKER_05I guess you kind of need a way to rinse it out. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You need to use a little bit of that valuable drinking water and switch it around in there. Or just accept it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, just a stanky thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, you know, welcome to my life. Um Welcome to your life. Sorry, what? You
Tools That Make Drafting Possible
SPEAKER_01know, going back to like how like it's left out of a conversation. There's so many like TV shows that I can think of off the top of my head where like there's somebody, they get caught by the bad guys, they get put into like a little holding cell, you know, like Negan and The Walking Dead, Daryl, etc. And uh it's like, okay, so you put them in the cell. Great cell, by the way. Where are they pooping? There's no bathroom in there. Do you let them out? Do you give them a bucket? Like we're not talking about these things, and I have questions.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, it's um sometimes you'll see in a show where, or I don't know, not like necessarily walking dead because I can't remember, but you know, they'll put somebody in a cell and then they they will have the thing of where they turn and look and there's the bucket, you know? Like, god damn it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I do appreciate when they when they do go to that level of detail.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It's like, all right. I never pooped in a bucket. I don't know that I'd enjoy it. Yeah, I pooped in a bucket with a toilet seat on top of it. How does it how was it?
SPEAKER_05It was fine, because it was a toilet seat on top of a bucket. So, you know, you just kind of sit on a toilet seat. And then do you just like throw it somewhere? Do you or this this was um why why were we pooping in a bucket? Yeah, just for fun. Um no, we were having the floors we finished. We couldn't get into our bathroom. We could go in like one end of the house and the other end of the house, and then just like the middle part, which is where the we only have one bathroom, so where the bathroom was. So So um we had the poop thing, the poop bucket out in the garage. So it had like a bag in it with like blue gel stuff, and then it like, you know, so and it was only for a day, something like that. And then yeah, and then you toss it in the garbage. But um the neighbors' you know, with humanure, people who have the like the the humanure ones that are in their house, not like the big giant ones outside, you know, they poop in a bucket, they have a little box bucket, and then you know, you throw in, you poop, and then you throw in covering material, and then you poop pee, throw in more, and then it's like a whole system. You move it outside, it takes like two, you know, a year of filling the the your compost bin, and then a year of it finishing itself while you are starting a new bin, and like apparently it works well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, apparently.
SPEAKER_05By the end of two years, it can go into uh into a garden, like a regular garden.
SPEAKER_02I think that's pretty cool. I used to um watch a lot of homesteading videos and I've seen that before. I also saw just one woman who would just go outside and dig a hole every time, and she had like a huge orchard, so she would just find a new hole area and she had like a way of I forget how she, but she had a way of like knowing where they were. So that right.
SPEAKER_05So when I was 10 or 9, so there were there were two summers. We went somewhere in upstate New York, I don't remember. A friend of my dad's had um like 25 acres of land. And the first year we went there, we um my dad built a lean to and we lived in it for a month, um, right by like a nice little stream creek thing and like in the woods. And and then the next year she had had a um an RV that didn't do anything. I think I don't even know if it had lights that worked, like nothing worked in it. It was just sort of like not a lean to. So um, but our our bathroom was we had um you remember TV trays, like the metal, yeah. So it was like the TV tray legs, but with a toilet seat that snapped onto those. And so you're just go walking off into the woods with your toilet seat and you dig the hole under and you'd set the toilet seat thing and you know what? And you were actually sitting up, like it's very weird to be sitting in the woods just on this random toilet seat with a hole beneath you. But yeah, that's how we went to the bathroom.
SPEAKER_02I feel like that could be helpful though, because like unless you've been squatting your whole life, it's really it like it is a human thing to do, but I think a lot of us lose it in cultures where we're in chairs all the time. Oh, yeah. Like trying to poop into a hole you just dug is is really not an easy thing to do. I have also done I've done that in camping, like interior camping trips in Canada. And then uh in Canada, they have these things. Maybe you've seen them. Maybe it's not just Canada. Who knows? Maybe it's in the United States. Somebody tell me if you've experienced this. But when you go backcountry camping and like you're canoeing, you're portaging, you're canoeing some more, you get to a site, all the sites will have what's called a thunder box. Does that sound funny? Yeah. Yeah. I've heard them, yeah. And uh they thunder because it's just a box and they've dug a hole. That's where the thunder comes from. Well, the the thunder is when you when you let the you have to like open the lid so the bears and animals don't get into it. There's a toilet seat where the hole is, and then when you let it close, it like claps like thunder. Wow. But it's like some of the most beautiful views I've ever had while pooping. I'm like like just out in nature looking at the lake, hoping nobody can see me through the tree. Yeah, it's lovely. Yeah. Uh, what's your favorite poop scene you've ever written? Do you have one you're like really proud of or you think just hit the nail on the head?
SPEAKER_05Um, hmm. So I was I actually have a I was thinking of all the I might have missed one, but I was thinking of all the um the poop things that I've written about. Because very often it's like extended, you know, because because part of the part of the way you're writing poop is what's their access to water, what's their access to electricity? Do they have a septic? Do they have a sewer system? Do they have nothing? Do they, you know, so I mean it all sort of depended. Um I think one of my favorite things to write was um in the City series, uh Eric gets really sick. This is uh like and and he's trying to make his way somewhere, and he ends up, he's basically just like shitting his pants, like shitting and like whipping his pants down, and he's getting so sick, he's like dysentery, you know, and and he's by himself and he's trying to get to his house um and uh where he might be able to find some help. And so he's just pooping like everywhere, and like then he gets stuck on like the top of a in a playground, like a children's playground. He's like at the top of the like slide thing, and the zombies are all there, and he's just like and he has to shit again, he's just like shitting, and it's like terrible. So I mean that was that
Why Bathroom Reality Matters
SPEAKER_05was a lot of fun. Um just because it was uh yeah. And then in um in the first books, and and actually in the Cascadia series, they you know, one point at some points they end up moving on toilet paper runs out. So, you know, you start to use things like cloth, reusable wipes and things like that. Um, and so they have what they call it the poop wash in one of the one of the one of the books in Until the End of the World, which is like you get put on the wash of like everybody's like rags that have shit on them. Yeah, like so they call it the poop wash.
SPEAKER_01So um I think you've got a shitty job.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And then there's one other way, there's one other poop thing that I just I just liked where there are these people, actually, they'll they're in um Bennington, Vermont. Um, and it's this like little group of two, like a guy and his daughter and his brother, and they are in one building hiding, and they're getting ready to move to a new place. They're just sort of staying here for now. And then they cut across, go down the building into the next building, and they've made that into their bathroom where they've cut a hole in the floor with the toilet over top, and then they just go down through the floor, poop pee, whatever goes down through the floor into the bottom of the next building. And so it keeps the stench away from them, and they've made air holes downstairs, like crack the windows or whatever. So it doesn't like build up methane and explode. And um, and I always thought, like, oh, that's kind of cool. Like, you couldn't do it forever because you just like it's like a cesspool.
SPEAKER_02Do you mind opening that door?
SPEAKER_01No. You know, that kind of reminds me of um there was this show, uh, I think it was called Last Man on Earth or something like that. Um, it's kind of a comedy, it's not a zombie show, but it is a show where like almost everybody, oh my god. And it's like episode one, he he should like they reveal that he has um, you know, he lives in this neighborhood. Like he just basically kind of goes to whatever house he wants.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But he's he has uh uh one of the neighbors' houses has a pool and he cut a hole in the diving board, and that's just his poop pool.
SPEAKER_05Oh, and it's poop pool, it's so gross. He also takes baths and like margaritas, so you know just drinking it.
SPEAKER_01Fills up kitty pools with margarita mix and takes a bathroom. That's his bath.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and just sits there. Why aren't you living in the margarita mix and swimming in the pool?
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, you don't want to shit the margarita mix.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I guess wouldn't he be really sticky though? Like was he really sticky all the time?
SPEAKER_05Probably. He doesn't really care. He's sort of no good. I mean, he's hilarious, and and he think and he thinks he's the last person on Earth, so Yeah. You know, I guess whatever. Fuck it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but you just be sticky.
SPEAKER_02Well, I um I wanted to give a short, very short history of toilets in television history because it really has been a taboo thing for a really long time. And um, I don't think I culturally understood that it was taboo to the degree that it is until I was living in Namibia. This is back in 2006, when I first moved there, and I kept asking for the bathroom. And I was a guest at a Namibian's house, and they were like looking at me funny, like, why do you need the bathroom? And I was like, Can I so finally they showed it to me and it was just the room with the tub in it and a sink. And that's when I realized I had to ask for the toilet. And then they were like so much because they were like, Is this person gonna have a bath at our house? Like, we just met them. It's so weird. Somehow that's more weird, right?
SPEAKER_04Like it's just there for dinner. I'm gonna have a bath now. Like, I love your home.
SPEAKER_01Do you mind if I take a bath in it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so many other languages say, like, I'm just going to the toilet, the toilet. Yeah. But we don't. We we say the bathroom as a restroom. Yeah. We avoid it for whatever reason. We're afraid of we're we're poo-phobic, I feel. We are. Um, so I love Lucy. Uh avoided bathrooms entirely, wasn't allowed. Um, leave it to Beaver had to fight sensors just to show part of a toilet tank.
SPEAKER_05It's so crazy. Yeah. It's like everybody had one in their home. It's not like it was some, you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, apparently it's terrible for children because the Brady Bunch had to push back to show a toilet. And the reason was that child viewers would be scarred. Don't show them a toilet. And in the 70s, by the 70s, all in the family included a toilet flush sound, which was like Yeah, I was gonna say Archie Bunker when he had like the newspaper or whatever. Yeah. And then do you know about Mr. Hanky? Are you a South Park fan? No. This was just when all the boundaries were broken. South Park had a Christmas special called Mr. Hanky the Christmas Pooh. Literally a poo character. Um, but I still don't think it's very frequent. And I I but people are are breaking those boundaries. I have a good friend. I'm gonna call you out, Eric. Eric, thank you for sending me all the pictures of you on the toilet. It really gives me joy. He's like, here's a selfie of me. I'm not kidding. I can't see anything, but I know he's in the bathroom. Yeah, right? Breaking boundaries.
SPEAKER_01Eric also has a really nice bathroom, so he does. Yeah, I I get it. You gotta show it off.
SPEAKER_02You gotta, you gotta show you, you gotta show that off. But for you, it was like I have to include poop in my stories. It just makes sense.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, because it's not realistic otherwise. Um, you know, what are they doing? And it's like I have zombies, obviously, which are unrealistic. And, you know, I I know some people will say no, but you know, we'll we'll just keep it at that. And um I like everything else around them to be like as detailed and realistic as possible. Um, but I must have always been really into survival and prepping and all of that stuff. So I like that kind of stuff. I like knowing all the little details and the nitty-gritty and how do you do this? How do you make this? So I like sharing that and having characters learn that or figure it out, or you know, someone tells them or whatever. Um, but yeah, it doesn't feel realistic to me if we're just pretending nobody goes to the bathroom
Buckets, Humanure, And Thunder Boxes
SPEAKER_05because, you know, yeah, you gotta. It's a fact of life. Or gets their period or anything like that. Yeah, they're always doing period discussions in my books, too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that is not something that we see every day. And I appreciate that realness. I think it's part of the appeal of your stories, is they do feel so immersive in like this is actually living in the apocalypse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was just having a bit of a flashback. I I was just remembering something from one of your books where somebody had an IUD stuck.
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, yeah, well, though they they're talking about it. She, yeah, she ends up, it ends up it had fallen out, and that's how she ends up knocked up, which I don't um, we're not gonna say who you who it is, so it's not a spoiler. But uh a character, yeah. But it's like, where are the strings? And then another's like, I never have even checked mine ever once. Uh-oh. Should I? Um so yeah. Yeah, like how will we get them out when it's time to get them out if we don't have somebody who knows how to do that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's a there's a big commitment to realism in your books.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. No, that there really is. I think it's like my my counterbalance. I'm like, I'm obsessed with with having a realistic area, you know, even down to settings where I'll have this whole plan and then I will see the setting better. I'll go there for research, and then I'm like, God damn it, that's not gonna work. It would work if I just left it the way I it's supposed to the way it was in my head. But it's it's like, I mean, it's not like I made some deal with somebody that I can't, you know, change something, but for some reason it's like I get I get to be, I'm like a stickler about it. Like, no, if you can't go there, then they can't go there. They have to figure out another way to do that, you know. Um, so yeah, so that's probably why it's just my like obsession with having it all.
SPEAKER_02It makes it a fun puzzle. And you pointed out something that makes me think you've also had to do a lot of poop research because you immediately were like, well, they had to put air holes in because of the methane would make things explode. That would never have occurred to me, Sarah. I would have just blew up a house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'd be I'd be like, no, no, let's not vent it because then it comes out. We keep it down there.
SPEAKER_02Right, then you'll smell it. And then I would be dead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So did you just come out of the womb knowing that, or did you have to do research when you were thinking through your Um, I don't know if I did do research for that, but I probably I picked it up somewhere along the way, you know, that too much poop and then you know, even in vault toilets at the campground, you know, they always have the pipe, the vents up because that's true. You you always need to vent the poop.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we have a composting toilet in the garage, and I never really thought what that vent was for. And now I know it so things don't explode.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean I thought I thought it was just to vent the uh the smell. Yeah. But it makes a lot of sense that you would also want to vent the methane from seeping into your house and creating a situation.
SPEAKER_05Let's talk about that. Now there are those things now that you can um I I mean I don't know much about them, but that that use the methane to then produce energy that you can then.
SPEAKER_01I was actually looking at those because the so the composting toilet is for um for my brother who lives in the the loft above our garage. Not in the garage with the lawnmower, but above it. An actual home. In a in a home. Without plumbing. Without plumbing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I was looking at those because like it's it's kind of cool because like the whole system is much more reminiscent of like a a you know, traditional toilet setup where it's like you can flush it. Uh it looks like a real toilet. It just goes down into a bag, like a black somewhere.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, remember the bag thing. Yeah, there's like yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then like as the the methane um builds up in that bag, you can also have it connected to um like burners so that you can like use it to cook with, you can have it heat your house. I don't want to cook with it. Sorry.
SPEAKER_05Oh, biogas, isn't that one of the I think biogas is one of the brands is like something like that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh I I figure that because it gets so cold here, it probably would be useless for like at least three to four months of the year and be frozen.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and that would probably be bad.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I uh and also I I gotta imagine it's there's a probably a problem with like rodents like trying to chew their way through the bag. Why would they want to Because they love it, Leah. They wanna they want to get in there.
SPEAKER_02I think rats would not like shit. I'm Googling right now.
SPEAKER_01Squirrels want to get in there.
SPEAKER_02Squirrel no. Yeah, I don't agree. No. See, this is the kind of research where do I actually want to put this on the in the internet? I don't know if I actually want to search that. We'll just we'll just disagree. Actually, break the tie. Do you think that rodents would want to get into the poop bag?
SPEAKER_05I don't know if they would want to get into the poop bag. I know they would like to get in, they like to get into compost. So But there's food in compost. I know, but I guess it depends on how much the poop smells like in your spoon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But also it's they eat a lot of corn. You know? Like there's there's um there's like reactions happening in there, so it's it's it's warm. So when it when the weather gets colder, they're gonna want to get in. They're like they're gonna be like, that's warm in there. Can we be in there? And uh they're I mean, I can't speak to whether or not they would like it once they're inside, but I feel like they're gonna try.
SPEAKER_05They might try because I've I I've knock on wood have maybe gotten them from getting under my house, but we have had several rats die under our house, and that is not fun because they like to be in a warm spot, you know, and yeah, so I can see them going into warm bags.
SPEAKER_02Full of shit. That's a choice. I guess if you're cold enough, right? I mean, any but maybe there'd be a point where I got cold enough. Let's get into some examples of of really excellent and shitty zombie media poop stories. We gotta start with All of Us Are Dead. You just finished watching it. I did, and I think we told you to watch it because of just for this one episode. You wanted to watch it.
SPEAKER_05I was like, well, I am gonna watch it to episode four at least because I had to get to episode four to see that. And then I just continued and I ended up watching the whole thing. Um so oh, episode four. Oh my god. So it just made no sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05There's a group of kids, and then there's also a group of adults in another section. They're showing two people making terrible ideas for brat for toilets. And um the kids are like, we gotta go to the bathroom. Uh, they're in this like broadcast studio, so they've got like the separate room with the glass, like the the recording room and like the office part, and they decide, you know, oh, we could put it in the set the other room. Um, but then they take this plastic tray, like a like a like an in-out tray or something, you know, like paper, and then they put something that might have been packing
Favorite Fiction Poop Scenes Explained
SPEAKER_05peanuts, and then they get somehow acquired two mop heads, which like the rope mop heads, or was that what that's what those were, right? Yes, they were mop heads. Where the hell did those random things come from? And the and and they're and they're forming it on top into like this round shape, and they're like, and they might have put some other cloth in there, and they're like, Yeah, and you sit on this and poop, it'll absorb all the poop and pee. And I'm thinking, what the fuck are they thinking?
SPEAKER_02Like it's a nightmare. As you're watching them create it, you're thinking, This these people are stupid. You know what's even crazy though?
SPEAKER_05And then, like, we'll put it in there, and then it'll just sit there. And I'm thinking, idiots, you're holding the only thing you need is that plastic receptacle. Yes, that is the only thing you need, and then you've got a fucking broken window. Remember from when they broke in? Yes, and you toss it out, like out the window, onto the zombies below, like whatever. Like, who gives a shit? Like, put it down. I mean, I was like, and then they and then they spent the whole rest of the time they were in there complaining about how bad it smelled, and I'm like, really? Nobody's just gonna chuck it out the window. Like, I was like, I'm sure there were I'm sure there were waste piece baskets they could have used. Like, ugh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was one of those things where that show felt also felt really real to me in a lot of ways, but that took me out of it. Like, uh, how many kids were in there all agreeing to this as the solution? Yeah. Nobody was like, hey, this is going to absorb it and make it smell bad. Nobody's gonna absorb your poop too.
SPEAKER_05It's not absorbing. Like those two mud, how are you gonna consistency? You just sit on like a cushion and then poop, it's just into smushy stuff. Like, that's gonna be a mess. Also, it's not going to absorb the pee, maybe. The poop, no. Like, if you wanted to put a little absorbent layer in there so that it collected the pee and you could toss the whole thing out, you know, the with the pee, so that way you didn't slosh it around. Like, all right. Yeah, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02I still think that'd be unnecessary.
SPEAKER_05Well, it is. It is unnecessary. I'm just giving them a little bit of grace, but you know, too kind.
SPEAKER_01But like one of the characters has like a real solution that they just shoot down. He's like, the window's already broken. What if we just sit on the edge and just poop out of the window?
SPEAKER_02I would be too the poop would like suck up into my bowels, I think. I don't think I could be like my ass out at how many stories high?
SPEAKER_05I think they're like yeah, the peeing out the window, boy, you know, penises peeing out the window. That was I'd be like, yeah, everything's like a lot of things. That should have been an easy look.
SPEAKER_01I was like easy. Like you can if you can stand and arc it out the window, that's what you should be doing. Instead, they're like, no, let's take the cover off of a off of a cushion from an office chair and pee into that. And it's like, what?
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah, the adults, those uh at the the wherever they were, the parliament place, or I don't even know. Yeah. Yeah, he he just like cut a hole in the in the like noga hyde and like smooshed up the the batting a little, and he was like, All right, here we go. And I'm going to go.
SPEAKER_01This is where you're peeing now.
SPEAKER_02You know, this makes me question the writers too. Because I was thinking, like, I forgot about the adults and their peeing situation. With the kids, I was like, are they just trying to demonstrate that these children are stupid and young and like just haven't had enough life experience? But no, it's not. What were the writers? Before we go in the special forces. Special forces person, he would have, I'm sure, known that you need a spade to dig in. Like, I feel like he would have known that.
SPEAKER_05Well, he was also in an office building, so or make a hole all the way down and put a bucket underneath so that way you're sitting on the chair and you can poop through. But pooping into batting that's like two inches below you, like I I don't know how you're gonna be wiping that. And I don't think you have toilet paper either. So, you know.
SPEAKER_01But they did have a lot of like regular paper.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Which I guess is
SPEAKER_02Are there any poop solutions we've seen that were like that was good on TV or movies or books? In TV and movies?
SPEAKER_01I don't think so.
SPEAKER_05I really couldn't think of any TV or movies where where you know they show it and you're like, nice.
SPEAKER_02Like, well done.
SPEAKER_05You really well because I love that. I love when I see something that I'm like, nice. That's what I would have done. Or yeah, like, oh, that's a good idea, you know.
SPEAKER_01So one of my most uh memorable early memories of uh of somebody actually talking about this, it's uh it's a book called The Infection by Craig DeLouis. And um I remembered it as the opening scene, but it's actually like 15 minutes into the book. Um he describes like somebody uh coming into coming into the room with everybody else, and then he quote un quote unquote craps loudly into a bucket. Loudly. I mean sometimes loudly, yeah. I mean and like they they had they had the toilet seat lid bucket set up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's like, oh, you you're coming out of the gate swinging. You've you're just gonna tell us exactly how you guys are doing this. Yeah. Um, oh, you know what?
SPEAKER_02In movies, wait, let's wait for movies. Let's talk about books, because I want to give a shout-out to Courtney Constantine. Hi, Courtney. Babysitter of the Apocalypse series is another great one where I'm like, this is real. You are you're dealing with diapers every day. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, that's a solution. Just wear diapers. I mean, you know what? There'd probably be a lot of depends available on the shelves. Yeah. That could be a great solution if you're on the run from zombies, just to have them on just in case.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I years and years ago, probably like more like 10, I remember there was the um the the story of the woman who was an astronaut and went to like go kill her ex-boyfriend who cheated on her. She drove across the country, paid for paid cash for gas so that she wouldn't she wouldn't trigger any um any credit card transactions along the way, and wore a diaper. Wow. So that she didn't have a few.
SPEAKER_05I remembered the depends thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I knew she was going to do something. I didn't remember she was going to kill somebody, but I do remember the depends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't know if she was successful or not. I just remember that story. The the the diapers what is what stood out.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's the only way I could be a truck driver I would have to be in depends. Because you can't stop every hour to pee when you're a truck driver.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. My last shout out for books before getting into yours a little bit more is um Dead Soil by Sylvester Barzi. Uh, if you haven't read it, it is Zombies and Pirates. Uh and there is the main character who has to escape zombies by going through it's not called the poop deck, right? Like that's something else.
SPEAKER_01He called it the poop deck, but the poop deck is actually a different thing.
SPEAKER_02Okay. But it's yeah, they had to go through down the hole, and like it's very gross. It involves sliding up through a bunch of shit. It's one of the most disgusting things
Terrible Toilet Solutions On Screen
SPEAKER_02I've ever read. So I'll give you a shout-out, Sylvester, for consistently pressing me out with that one. Um, but we didn't, there were no characters where they pooped. It was just one of them covered in poop. Right. Um, does every single book of yours have a moment where somebody poops?
SPEAKER_05Like when you work, are you like discussion of the bathroom? Yeah, how do you think?
SPEAKER_02Do you have a checklist? You're like, gotta make sure I get a poop scene in here.
SPEAKER_05No, because they go through life. And so I feel like at some point during life, sorry, I'm yelling at um at some point during life, you're, you know, gonna have to either pee or poop, and somebody's gonna be like, what are we doing about the bathroom? You know, so I feel like it just comes up naturally. Um, but yeah, I can't think of a single book where there's not some discussion of now we're in a new place. How are we gonna do this? And there's there's one another part um in one of the first series books where they're all there's a bunch of them, I don't remember how many, maybe 20, I don't know, trapped in a house, surrounded by zombies. They all flew into there like to get away. Um, and they're being really, really, really silent. And um, you know, they've gotten some water from the hot water heater, but obviously you're not going to use that to drink. I mean, yes, no, you are gonna use it to drink. You're not going to use it to flush your toilet. And you know, most of the houses here, this area would have been on a septic system, probably, or the cellar's not uh hasn't backed up. But um eventually they start like peeing into like a bucket and then using the pee in the tank to then flush what's you know that's really smart. And but it's also just like you know, they're like the smell is horrific, like collected pee. Like the whole system is now running on like pee and poop and days, you know, of 20-something people or whatever peeing and pooping.
SPEAKER_02So and semi-dehydrated pee, I'd like to imagine, which is extra potent.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and and and thankfully they're I mean not thankfully for them, because they want food, but they don't have much food. So I'm sure the pooping kind of, you know, slows down a lot.
SPEAKER_01You need to save up 1.3 gallons of pee to flush an entire house's worth of poop.
SPEAKER_02Wow. I mean, I don't know about you, but first thing in the morning, I pee a lot. Like when I again when I used to go camping and I didn't want to have to go out into the wilderness in the middle of the night because I was afraid a monster would come eat me. I had like a uh a Tupperware container just for the purpose of peeing in like an old chamber pot situation. I feel that I think that would have been like a solid leader at least. Sometimes, sometimes I'd be like, I'd have to stop because I was like, this is gonna be a problem if I keep peeing. So I feel like you got up fast.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. You know, because especially if you got 20 people and they were drinking. They weren't, I mean, they were gonna, they would run out of water if they kept staying there, which they have to figure out a way to go. And you know, but um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're rationing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, it's pretty gorgeous. They like save up the bucket, you know, dumping it into the tank to We are very lucky.
SPEAKER_02Let's just all take, let's have a moment of silence for modern plumbing. Seriously.
SPEAKER_01You know, because I'm a I'm a truck driver, I know that I at my maximum, I have exactly one liter of pea inside of me.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Like two literally. Because it fits right into a liter bottle. Yeah. It's like there's there's times where you're like, is this gonna overflow? Um, I guess we're gonna find out. And it stops right before the very tip top.
SPEAKER_04Oh boy.
SPEAKER_01It's never gone any more than that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I want to share something, but I feel like you'll hate me. You can take it out, okay? Listeners, maybe you don't get to hear this thing, but I am absolutely telling Sarah. So this man might not poop, but when he was still driving his truck, um, one of the times I came into it, I was like, what are all these bottles?
SPEAKER_03Oh no.
SPEAKER_02I hadn't got a chance to dispose of it. So I was like, this is Yeah. I'm sorry, I had to I had to say it.
SPEAKER_01You know, they they collect they collect, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, it's like surviving.
SPEAKER_01You know, sometimes you choose your beverages based on the bottle that it comes in because you're like, that'll be good to pee in. Oh, that's a good pee bottle. Yeah, like Gatorade, Gatorade bottles. Oh, nice wide.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And also exactly one liter. So that's weird.
SPEAKER_02Um, shout out to the internet because I did just wanted to see if there were more books that had poop in it. But I do think that you might deserve an award for like most number of books, zombie books, that consistently have poop in them. Um, because I didn't find a lot, but I did find two I haven't read yet, but now added to the list. One's called Poop Zombie by James Glenfield. It's a humor-driven e-book filled with zombie poop questions and jokes about how the undead might poop. But Thrish Thrash, who which is apparently this writer's author's name, has concluded, because the book is called Every Zombie Poops. That's the book. It's about zombies pooping. So that's out there.
SPEAKER_05I think that's like everybody poops, that one, the second one on that, you know, that children's book, everybody poops. I think that's like a play on that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it is a kid's a kid's now.
SPEAKER_05I I purchased the first one you talked about. You purchased poop zombie? Because you sent it to me and I said, Well, I have to see what's happening in this book. Well, now you gotta tell us about it. I haven't read it. It's honestly just a list of like 50 questions. Okay. I have a sampling. Could a zombie poop out a finger? If eating zombie poop gave you powers, what would it give? How would you weaponize zombie poop? Would you ever smear zombie poop on yourself if it deterred zombies? And those are the ones that I decided to pick out of there. They're very random questions. And that's all it is. It's like 10 pages.
SPEAKER_02Do you have answers, Sarah? Have you come to some conclusions?
SPEAKER_05My feeling was a zombie could poop out a finger. I mean, I don't know that zombies poop, but I mean, you know, if it's just making its way through and a finger plops out, like that makes sense to me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I think if it's a if it's an undead zombie, the digestive system doesn't function. Yeah. But I think as long as it keeps eating, it's gonna keep pushing things through.
SPEAKER_05Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So eventually a finger will come out.
SPEAKER_05Right. That's what I was thinking. Or it won't, it will explode. Yeah, exactly. Or everything goes out the front.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Delicious.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um if eating zombie poop gave you powers, what would it give? I don't feel like it would give us powers. I feel like it would give us death.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you'd die from that. I think you get really sick, yeah. Or or become infected. That would be like a novel infection.
SPEAKER_01Viruses can live in poop.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely they can.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes, when there was the polio outbreak in Namibia and nobody knew what it was, it was because of poop. Again, gratitude for um having access to sanitary bathroom options because that's when things like polio happen. Uh, when you don't have access to that. That was really scary. Side story. I the people were just getting sick with flu-like symptoms and 24 hours later dying, and they didn't know what it was. And then the World Health Organization came and figured out that it was polio, and then I had to get vaccinated for polio again because I didn't have evidence that I'd been vaccinated for polio. I couldn't leave the country till I did it again.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02That was a whole whole thing. Poop is dangerous. That's my moral of the story.
SPEAKER_05Poop is very dangerous. And that's that's one of the one another reason why I always have it in my books is because it's all part of sanitation. And, you know, you in order to be sanitary and to not have people dying of, you know, polio typhoid, like um cholera, like all these things that will come and get you, you know, if you're not keeping bodily fluids separate, um, you know, that's it's all part, it's all wrapped up into one thing. So if you're describing like an the system that your people are living in, you have to deal with, you know, what comes in and what goes out, and how you keep it clean, as clean as possible.
SPEAKER_02So I can I've never talked about poop for this length of time. I just feel like the need to stay. Have you, Sarah?
SPEAKER_05Well, I have children. So, you know, when they were younger, there was a lot of poop involved.
SPEAKER_02Um we've got some scenarios for you, some poop acalypse scenarios that if they appeared in your books, how would you solve for them? Okay. Um, okay. Have you watched the film Train to Passad?
SPEAKER_05Yes. A long time ago, though.
SPEAKER_02You're on a train and you're stuck in a car without a bathroom with three other survivors in the cars on either side of you are fast zombies and they want to eat you. One of you needs to poop and it's an emergency. What do you what would you how would you solve? What would what would you write as the answer to this moment?
SPEAKER_05I mean, uh, can the zombies get through the car doors?
SPEAKER_02No. Yeah, it's not a good thing. But someone's like safe in the car for now. Safe in the car for now, but you can't get out.
SPEAKER_05I'd be like, just go sit in the corner, dude, like and then be done with it.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a pretty good thing.
SPEAKER_05I'm picturing like a New York, like you know, like go down to the end of the car in the corner and just let it out. Let a rip. I don't know. Like, because what are you gonna do? What's your other choice? Poop in your pants, and then you just have poop in your pants.
SPEAKER_02So characters would have a hard time with that though,
Diapers, Zombie Poop Books, And Disease
SPEAKER_02because I know that if I was, you know, you have poop anxiety or peace, people can't pee in a public bathroom because they, you know, what if we're a person?
SPEAKER_05I well, I feel like because yeah, I'm not a I'm not really like woo-hoo, I'm gonna poop in front of people, you know. So I'm feeling like if this person has to poop that badly that we are on a train car and on either side of us are train cars of people who are trying to eat us, and we're like the next stop, we might be dead because doors will open and you know, blah, blah, blah. If they still want to poop in that situation, they really gotta poop and they don't care. Like it doesn't, it's it's past the point of like them having a choice, you know. Because I if it were me, I'm pretty sure my poop would just be like right back up inside, it'd be like, we don't gotta go now, you know. So um, so yeah, I think that probably in that situation it'd be like, just just do it, dude. Yeah, it's probably diarrhea. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh it's all sliding down the train. Oh, yeah, as it's going faster and slower. That's terrible. That's gross. Dan, do you want to do the next one?
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. So this is uh Sean of the Dead situation. You're at the Winchester, you know. Uh the the bar.
SPEAKER_05The bar, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The place. You know, the place where you go, the Winchester. You run out of toilet paper. What do you use instead?
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, it's a bar, so there's probably tons of bar towels, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love how easy this is for you. That one's an easy one. Like, there's probably napkins galore.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, napkins, but but even I'm thinking like all paper products. I would just start using bar cloth and yeah.
SPEAKER_01I feel like this is more a more interesting question in the train de Busan scenario. Like, what do you what are you using? What are you using for toilet paper on the train?
SPEAKER_02You're not. You're probably just kind of like putting your toilet your underwear up in there and maybe just like rub it, rub your butt on the seat. Or I I think what I would do is I would take my underwear off, use it for that purpose, and then just be probably, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I'd use an arm. I wouldn't use a sock though, because you need socks in your shoes, you'd get a blister.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Somebody else's socks, though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05If you get extra socks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, somebody else's.
SPEAKER_05But I think your underwear is good as long as you could get, you know, you could get out of it quickly. Sometimes you'd have to like you're wearing boots, and you have to like undo your boot, but I guess you could rip your underwear off.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's I think that's the appropriate thing to do, is just like kind of like you're wearing like um snap-up pants. You just grab them by the front and just yank them and they just tear right off.
SPEAKER_02Tearaways never more useful, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love to tear away pants as a teenage. You know what? Tearaway pants would be great to have in the zombie apocalypse for exactly that reason. You could you're like, I'm about to have dysentery. And then you just grab your pants, rip them off, and there you go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Or like, you know, even just like with kids, they have you know changing diapers. It's like snaps all up the inside of like a little pair of jeans. Or the that would make life so much easier. You just like whomp at the bottom and passage.
SPEAKER_02Adult pants have that. I you know, or like rompers specifically. Like, I understand a romper looks cute. I love a romper, but like when you gotta go, it's a lot of work, so why don't we just have the snaps?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I have I have a confession to make. I've pooped once.
SPEAKER_02Well, so he really trusts you, Sarah. I I can't believe you've never told me, and now you're t I'm okay.
SPEAKER_01So um I was hunting. I was hunting with my dad, and you know, things were becoming desperate. I was he he kind of just like left me in a place to kind of like you just stay here and and watch, watch for squirrels or whatever. Um because I was young, young, I was hunting squirrels. And uh, you know, things are getting desperate, and I'm like, I gotta go. So I went off into the into a field um where there was like an old abandoned horse barn. And uh I just kind of like leaned against the horse barn and uh and I pooped. That was the one time I ever did it. Thing is, I didn't really know what I was doing, and I pulled my pants all the way down to my ankles.
SPEAKER_04Oh no.
SPEAKER_01And I pooped into my pants.
SPEAKER_05You didn't you didn't get the butt out from like a back.
SPEAKER_02For anyone who's never had to do this. Yeah, down to the knees. He didn't know it had to be.
SPEAKER_01Not down to your ankles.
SPEAKER_02But also bend your butt back. Yeah, you gotta bend your butt back. Because you could be down your ankles, but if your butt is back, like you're taking us like you're squatting, you're not gonna poop in your pants.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Then also I didn't have anything to wipe with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I was in a field. It's you know, it's an old horse field, and there was lots of grass. So I'm like, I'm gonna use that. I've you know, grass can't be bad, right?
SPEAKER_04Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_01And I started noticing that I was feeling very itchy, like really, really itchy. And like, as I went back to my my squirrel scouting location, I was like sitting on a downed oak tree, and I'm just like scratching my butt all over this tree. And how old are you? My dad came back, like 12 or 13. Okay. My dad came back and he he couldn't help but notice that I was scratching my ass all over a tree. And he's like, What's wrong with you? And I'm like, I I wiped with grass. And he's like, Oh, well, that's swamp grass. And swamp grass has these little microscopic barbs on them that come off and stick into you, kind of like burdock. So it's kind of like if you had burdock in your ass on a microscopic level. And he's like, Yeah, you're just gonna have a bad time for a while. And that's my story.
SPEAKER_05And that's why I never that's why I don't poop anymore. I was gonna say, that's your origin story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's why you don't poop anymore.
SPEAKER_01That was the last time I did it.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. Obviously traumatizing. You had swamp ass. It's literally good opportunities for shit jokes. Um another scenario, zombie land. You're in a bathroom stall, you think you're safe, so it's mid midstream, mid-plop, uh, and zombies suddenly are in the bathroom. How what do you do?
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Well, I I don't even know. I would I guess you just have to stop and run.
SPEAKER_02No, I mean would different characters of yours have different responses to that moment.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I guess it's I mean, what are the zombies doing when they come in? And how close are you to being done? Like, do you just need to like your mid your mid poop? Mid. Well, but that could be like uh that could be like a minute or like three seconds, or it could be like or 15, I've heard. It's a lot.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05It's a lot of seconds. Okay. That's like when my son used to go to the bathroom for like an hour, yes, kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um like if you're done, that's an easy now. I'm done. I I get the fuck out of there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But if like what if you're at like the peak of desperation and you just hear some a zombie wander in, you got your bathroom stall. The stall's closed. Like maybe you'll be okay, right?
SPEAKER_05Can it slither under there?
SPEAKER_02If it knows you're there. Don't make any noise. Which it might because the sound of the water.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the water, the sound. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. If it were like floor to ceiling or the you know, to the floor um doors and crap, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not in America.
SPEAKER_05Why do you know why? Why do we have to do that? I don't know. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_01I have a theory. I think okay. This is this is my conspiracy theory as to why they uh first of all, the gap between the door and the frame. It's like an inch. It's like an inch. You can see right through there. You have the the the floor gap on the bottom. My theory is because in the 50s uh people wanted to go in and see and make sure that there weren't multiple people in one stall doing nefarious things together.
SPEAKER_02In the 50s specifically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. In the McCarthy era. I think this is a McCarthy era um uh way to police people doing certain activities.
SPEAKER_02Uh it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. The McCarthy era was also terrible. It's nice to remember that there were other terrible eras.
SPEAKER_05I know. It is, except that I feel like we've now, you know, we've taken that. They took that and they ran with it now. You know, now it's just like, yeah. But yeah, no, that's pretty terrible.
SPEAKER_02Um, have you had a scenario in your books where somebody had to choose between flushing and the smell or not flushing? Or sorry, not flushing with the smell or flushing with the sound?
SPEAKER_05No, I don't think I've ever had anybody that I can remember.
SPEAKER_01Well, the one that you were talking about with all the people in the house as all the zombies are like walking past the house outside, wasn't that also kind
Poop-Apocalypse Scenarios And Tradeoffs
SPEAKER_01of the decision? Is like that. Well, yeah, I mean noise.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but it the the one flush, like they would save it all off and then do like a one flush thing. So in my mind, like that was what I was thinking, I don't know if what it says in the story. Um, but I guess they thought it was safe enough. Because the zombies weren't like banging on the doors, but they were all just like congregated outside in this like woodsy area on this road and you know, that had some other houses but sort of ended at a dead end. Um and yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it was like not like they were like up there listening for the sound of the toilet flushing.
SPEAKER_05Right. I don't think that would have been like a noise, a person noise would have been more like a voice or something that they they were really worried about that.
SPEAKER_01I think
SPEAKER_05And and a little kid in there is sick and the kid is coughing, and that's a thing. That's true. It's like, yeah, like getting that kid to somewhere where they won't hear a kid coughing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, going back to the zombie land scenario where like you choose whether or not to finish or uh get out of there while when the zombie comes in, I'm I'm like a an instinctual flusher. Like my hand goes for it without thinking. And uh that's what would get me killed is I would flush. Oh I just hit it and I'd be like, oh shit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's kind of similar to like when you go in a room and you turn on like the light switch, and then when your power goes out and you just repeatedly go into rooms and keep turning on light switches, and you're like, oh my god, stop! You know it doesn't work, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that'd be a good detail. Somebody that like fl like tries to flush toilets even though the water is gone. Yeah, you just hit it and they're like, right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I've had characters who do that with the light switch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I love those little details. Also, like one of the things that sold me was just not just that humans poop in your old, but animals. You've got to figure it out. You wanna have your cat? You gotta solve for that. Yeah. Also, your dog, like, okay, there's zombies. Well, your dog needs to take a shit. What are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think about that one a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, cats I've you know, would be easy because they have a litter box.
SPEAKER_02But you gotta clean it out eventually.
SPEAKER_01You do, but you can cut it out the window. Yeah, yeah. You know, it go it goes flying out the window. You know, little little catapult set up next to the window. Like you get some rubber bands and you just put it in there like a big slingshot and just launch it out the window. That's my my kid, my kitty litter solution.
SPEAKER_02Kitty litter. Do you launch it at the zombie? I'm just like, sorry, I'm just I had like a moment. You know what? Does this happen to either of you where like somebody says something and then an entire scene plays out in your brain?
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02So the scene that just played out in my brain is like you're slingshotting it at zombies. And then like, can you imagine later on somebody else who was not involved in this just comes across cat shit covered stomach?
SPEAKER_01I feel like it's good, it's good practice because like you know, you could be setting up you could be building this uh the slingshot to be deadly, and you know, you're not gonna practice with like the steel ball bearings that you found at the hardware store. You're gonna be like, well, what can I use that's free and practice? And you know, cat shit is free.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Disgusting. Um on a much more practical level, because you are somebody who is very thoughtful about prepping. And last time we learned about the number of cans that you have under your bed. Yeah. What is what is your pooping hygiene prep look like?
SPEAKER_05Um, I basically have um uh the bucket with the lid on it, and like I have some cover stuff that you could use for a while. So look again, uh humanure. I can get that out, um, situation. And then like really temporary, I have another little, like it's actually in my car. It's a um like a square, it's a box, but it folds all the way down flat and then it comes up and builds, and then it has little bags that contain like gel in them, and it can be used by up to how however many people for like a day or three or something, and it absorbs it all and it turns like sort of neutralizes it, and then you toss them. So I have that at a bunch of bags. Um that's impressive. And then other than that, I'm hearing that. I don't know. I guess we just try to keep pooping in a bucket and finding cover material and doing humanoid or you know. Um, I'd like to have a compost. Well, that is composting eventually, but um, you know, like a fancy composting toilet would be neat.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, everything's composting if you leave it long enough.
SPEAKER_05Right. Well, and and these aren't that's they call, you know, the ones with the buckets, they're like a compost toilet. Like it doesn't compost in it, but it goes to the compost. Um, so yeah, that's probably what I'd end up doing.
SPEAKER_02That was kind of the dream for us. Like uh when we bought the house that we're in now, this the septic mound, because you can't bury anything on top of granite uh on a mountain, but anyways, was needed to be replaced. And so part of the negotiations was like getting them to pay for this replacement because I learned you can't get a mortgage unless you have a septic or access to like something that like the city sewer, which was upsetting because I was like, oh great, this is the opportunity for me to just have composting toilets. And then I learned that that's not like I was like, let's just all save some money. They don't need to do that. I want a composting toilet, but couldn't do it. It wouldn't let us know. I'm kind of glad for that. Would you buy a house that was only composting toilets?
SPEAKER_05Um, I would buy a house that was only composting toilets if I had running water in other places. Yes. Yes. So if I had running water, hot water, because I really like hot water. Um, I mean, you know, you can you can deal with whatever, but would I purchase it like woo-hoo? Yeah, I would want water. The composting toilets wouldn't bother me, but the the lack of like a running water, if I had to go like haul it from someplace, I would that would be annoying.
SPEAKER_02Agreed. That was what we were hoping for, but we would not literally not have this house if we had said no to the septic.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, well, I I I imagine with the running water, they don't want your gray water going everywhere anyway. So they probably want, you know, it's but that goes to your septic too. So Yeah. And yay, for septics, you know, just in the apocalypse, it's a it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but if you're stuck in the same place for a long time, uh, like say we decide to stay at the farm and then you're there for five years and you filled up that septic, what you gotta do?
SPEAKER_01There's nobody like with the tank to go come up and well, if it's been five years, then you know, I've already gone to the nearest construction yard and I I now own an 80,000 pound excavator.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I think you know, I was just reading about a guy who was saying it like his dad had a septic tank for 35 years and never once had it had it pumped. And um guy came out after that somebody told me shit. He was like, Oh, okay, had a guy come out and the guy's like, Yeah, it was fine. Because it had been working properly. You know, the theory of the septic tank is that there's the bacteria in there, they're breaking it down, and liquids are gone, you know, and I mean, I guess there's sludge, but I guess the sludge eventually something is I don't know, over 35 years, apparently, this guy didn't have any problems.
SPEAKER_01Um bacteria will break it down. That's right. So and like they're designed to go out into a leech field.
SPEAKER_05So like Right, exactly. Of your leech field. Yeah. When we moved to Vermont, our ground where they had the tank and the leech field was like super wet, and so the leech field wasn't right. So then we had to go have a whole new leech field put in and they had to like pump it up.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
Prepping Gear, Septics, And Outhouses
SPEAKER_05You know? And I was like, that's so annoying. I like the less the fewer things you have that need electricity, the better, you know. And I was like, oh great, now we have a stupid pump. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh set up a you know, little red handled pump.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it doesn't just it comes out and well, it's funny, the the house, the cabin that we bought that we lived in in Woodbury, um still had the outhouse because they had only put in plumbing in the 70s and um and they had only they had only gotten rid of party lines like four years before we moved there. Ah, party lines. Yeah. Um crazy. But yes, we used to we were like, well, we've always got the outhouse.
SPEAKER_02What's a party line for the people that are listening that are all a lot younger than us?
SPEAKER_05It's when there's not an there weren't enough telephone lines for everybody in a certain area to have their own. So people would share a telephone line. So every phone would be connected to the same line. And so you would pick up the phone, and if you heard somebody talking, you were not supposed to uh listen in and eavesdrop. You were supposed to hang up or say, Hey, I need to use the phone because they were your neighbors, and then you would hang up and you'd wait to s till the phone was clear and then use it till the phone line was open. So yeah, but yeah, up until like not long before we moved there.
SPEAKER_02It's pretty wild to think about it. I mean I know. My dad grew up with a uh outhouse. It's not that long ago. I grew up with an outhouse. Well, you also were like in a cabin in the woods without you were fully roughening it as a kid.
SPEAKER_01My my parents, they they built a a cabin on my grandfather's land. Um this is when I was very young. You know, they uh like you know, and by by building a cabin, I mean like they went out into the woods with a chainsaw, they cut down trees, and they Lincoln Log style built a cabin.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, and the bathroom situation was an outhouse. And you know, this is upstate New York, so like in the summer months that's fine. Um, but in the winter months it's negative twenty degrees. So it's not fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I I I I f it was my uh six-year-old ingenuity that came up that came up with a solution for the problem because like you go out there and you like the toilet seat's so cold that your legs want to stick to it. And I'm like, well, why don't we take the toilet seat off and put it behind the furnace when we're not using it? And they're like, whoa, that's a great idea.
SPEAKER_05And yeah, then you bring a nice warm toilet seat out there with you.
SPEAKER_01And you'd go out there, you'd be holding this toilet seat, and you'd go out, you'd leave you'd leave the house to go to the the uh the the outhouse, which was like, you know, 50 or 60 feet away, and like the steam would be rising off of the toilet seat that's sitting behind the furnace. It's like 130 degrees.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and people pay a lot of money for heated toilet seats.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we have one ourselves. When I got a raise once, I was like, let's get a bidet. Yeah, a fancy one, and I love our heated toilet seat.
SPEAKER_01And you know what, maybe that's why I never poop is because when I growing up, it was an outhouse, and I was, you know, it's it's not a it's not a great place.
SPEAKER_02We've unpacked a lot today around.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I feel like I feel like we've gotten to the root of a lot of this trauma. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, I could talk about poop with you forever, Sarah, Lyons Fleming. And we have come to the end. Is there anything we haven't talked about about poop that we really need to?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I feel like we could probably come back and do another episode.
SPEAKER_02We could have a whole debate about do zombies poop because um I found a zombie poop recipe. What? As well as the song. A recipe. A recipe for zombie poop. It involves uh here, I'll send it to you in the link in the chat, Sarah, so you can enjoy this as well. One second. There is the chat. Okay. I don't remember how to do chats. Maybe I have this too. There it is. Okay. There you go. There's a zombie poop. There's also a whole Reddit thread so people debate whether or not zombies poop. And as we sent to you already, a zombie song about zombie poop.
SPEAKER_05I went and looked at the picture real quick.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05It's pretty cute. Yeah, definitely, yeah, you know, pudding. I don't know if it's pudding, but you know, it's definitely moose. Some some sort.
SPEAKER_02Something, yeah. It's a moose with some uh to describe it for the listeners, with like candy fingers and bones. Yeah, and bones. Yeah. Yeah. Would this give us superpowers? I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01It does answer the question whether or not a zombie could poop a finger.
SPEAKER_02Oh, there you go. You solved the problem. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. Um, also, there's we found a zombie poop song.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And we sent it to you, Sarah. Would you like to sing it?
SPEAKER_05I can't. You know, after I heard that, I heard like 14 more of his poop songs, and then I could not remember that particular tune because they all have a different tune. They did. It's like, it was like, yeah, no, I don't even know.
SPEAKER_02I did write and ask permission to play the song at the end of this episode, um, but I've not heard back yet. So just in case that you all don't get to listen to it, because we didn't hear back from this wonderful gentleman who wrote the zombie poop song. You can find him on YouTube. The link will be in the show notes. Uh it's by the odd man who sings about poop, puke, and pee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So this guy's written 26,000 songs about poop.
SPEAKER_05Is that how many he has?
SPEAKER_01Yes. He's prolific.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god, I thought that the the album I was looking at that had 50 was that's just one album, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01That's one of many of his discographies. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you want to read more about Sarah Lyon Slumming, I want to read more about that guy.
SPEAKER_05I want to know what's happening in his life. I just I want to know like a day in the life of him doing this stuff. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I kind of wonder, and I have no way of knowing this, but I don't know if you've seen the trend to like put really terrible music on Spotify to fuck with AI songs. AI music creation. I'm like, is this person just like flooding Spotify with poop songs to mess with? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So they AI is like, wow, these humans really like poop songs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Somebody somebody's over there like, generate a song for me, for my girlfriend, about how I feel about my girlfriend, and then spot and then it's like, got it. Yeah. Poop poop poop poop poop.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you for fulfilling my zombie poop dreams. Um, this was a we were we've been talking about this one for a long time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I knew when reading your stuff, I was like, if there's anyone we should talk about this with, you are a prolific zombie book pooper.
SPEAKER_05I am. I gotta, you know, if my characters go anywhere new, you're gonna know where they are pooping because that's how I roll. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The first thing you gotta figure out. Where are we pooping?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Where are we what are we drinking? What are we eating? Where are we pooping? Yeah. After you're safe.
SPEAKER_02As usual, I am inspired. I'm gonna have to like now have one of these things in my my car. So thank you for that tip.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Send me the link, I'm where to buy it. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I I don't I don't know how to end this episode.
SPEAKER_02Um I I'm I know how to end this episode.
Thumbnail Idea And Zombie Poop Song
SPEAKER_02Final question. Final, final question. I've been thinking about, I want you to to send us out with what you think would be the best thumbnail for this episode because I thought about it, and like normally it's your picture, your lovely picture, and then some of your books. And then I was like, do I have Sarah's face beside like a poop emoji? Like, this doesn't feel good. So tell me tell the listeners what you would you're dreaming about.
SPEAKER_05I think we should take a screenshot of me. Like, and then you could put poop in my hands.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, perfect. Yeah, I I love this answer. All right, hold on a second. I'm gonna do it right now. Hold on, I need to make you the bigger. Gorgeous. One for the road.
SPEAKER_01That's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_02Well, everybody, now you know why that's the picture with Sarah's consent. You're welcome, everyone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I am genuinely interested in knowing if this was a topic that people enjoyed or if this was a topic that everyone avoided. If they just saw this come up in their feed and they were like, no.
SPEAKER_02We'll have to ask them in the in the show notes or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let us let us know if you skipped this episode, but also for some reason got to the end and heard me ask you that question.
SPEAKER_02Were you pooping while listening? That's also a possibility. Let us know.
SPEAKER_01It was a long episode. Were you in there the whole time?
SPEAKER_02I mean, Sarah's son was. Is that too much?
SPEAKER_05Sorry. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Sorry, child. None of your friends are doing.
SPEAKER_01We'll cut that out. You know, if you've if you've been in the bathroom this entire time, how numb are your legs?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um, how do you deal with that? Asking for a friend.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But in the meantime, make sure you can poop in the apocalypse. And uh, the end is nigh, baby. Bye bye bye. Don't die. Don't die on the toilet.
SPEAKER_01Don't die. Don't die on to the top.
SPEAKER_02Don't want somebody find you dead on the toilet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's not that's not a good look.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Sarah.
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