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Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
Aquarium of the Dead with Special Guest Jacob Quijas | Zombie Book Club Ep 116
Join us for a smart, irreverent dive into Aquarium of the Dead with marine biologist and festival fanatic Jacob Quijas. We map undead tropes onto real marine science—waves, buoyancy, detritivores, keystone species—and even speculate: can the ocean digest zombies faster than we expect and would their bones become coral?
Then we dive in to the movie: shark mix-ups, roaring octopi, and what Aquarium of the Dead gets hilariously wrong about marine life and systems. Along the way, Jacob’s wisdom about eating down the food chain, building communities under pressure, and finding science in the absurd will have you laughing, learning, and maybe even rethinking your next seaside horror flick.
Jacob Quijas
- Instagram — @vivalafestivapodcast
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Movie / Topic Links
- Aquarium of the Dead (2021) — Wikipedia page with production notes
- Trailer on YouTube
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What is a zombie boat club? The only boat club where the book is a poorly constructed aquarium with only one guest who purchased a VIP pass despite being the only customer present in the whole park. I'm Dan, and when I'm not going to the aquarium alone on my birthday for a horribly sad VIP experience, I'm writing a book about a zombie apocalypse that could have been easily avoided, much like every part of this movie.
SPEAKER_03:Burn. And I'm Leah, and today is a casual debt episode with our special zombesti and guest for today, Jacob Kehas. With a marine biology degree and a passion for people, Jacob started a podcast about festivals in 2022. And through the podcast, he's learned about festivals that celebrate literally everything, like James Dean, the blob, pickles, owls, cheese, and so much more. From there, he found a deep fascination of cultural studies and sociology in all forms, both past and present. No wonder he's a Zombie, and has become a friend of Zombie Book Club over the past year. Welcome to the club, Jacob. We are so excited to finally be talking to you.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm so excited to be talking to you guys too. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03:This should have happened a year ago. Yeah. This is like a mini festival. The three of us are a festival?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're festivaling.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah, we're gathering, we're we're communic, we're talking about the same thing and our passion for it. So yeah, that's kind of the bare bones of a festival.
SPEAKER_03:Jacob, what would you call this festival?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, you know, I I'd hate to be you kind of already stole it by saying the zombesties, so I'd probably just call it the zombesti festival or zombestifest?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:All right, we're stealing that. Yeah, zombesti festival. We we came up with it. It's our idea. Get out of here, Jacob.
SPEAKER_03:It was not very zombesti festivut, Dan.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I have a marine biologist joke that I have to get out of the way um immediately. There was this animated short that I saw like 10 years ago, and it won't leave my brain, anyways. It's a grandpa with his grandson. He goes to his neighbor's house and uh knocks on the door, and the neighbor answers. And he's like, he's like, go ahead and go ahead and tell him what you want to be when you grow up. And his grandson's just like, oh, I want to be a marine biologist. And the grandpa's just like, yeah, you hear that? A marine biologist. Oohrah. And that lives in my head every single day. I'm I'll be just sitting in my truck and like, ooh. That's great.
SPEAKER_03:Um have you heard that one before?
SPEAKER_00:No, I haven't. No. How long is basic training to be a marine biologist?
SPEAKER_01:Four years and a lot of ramen. Wow. If you're lucky.
SPEAKER_00:That is intense. Um, we have some rapid fire questions for you that we will judge you deeply on. Um boy. The first one, I mean, in this one, we're gonna learn so much about you, about how you feel about the entirety of the human race. Because it is your choice to choose whether you work 40 hours a week or the world is infected by a zombie apocalypse. Which would you prefer to live in? Uh, one where you go to work or one where there's zombies.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm gonna really try to be unique with my answers here, but I'm gonna say I would love a zombie apocalypse, but on a 40-hour works like schedule, like Monday through Friday.
SPEAKER_00:So you leave in the morning, you're like, bye, hun, I'm going to the apocalypse.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. And then Saturdays, Sundays, I get off. Like, I'm I'm just off to relax.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's something that we could all sign on to.
SPEAKER_03:I would I think you hit the perfect compromise.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, I'd sign up for that.
SPEAKER_03:I mean too. Having like recently being unemployed, I've been thinking a lot about this and being like, you know what, maybe I would choose the 40-hour work week, but I think you just solved my dilemma.
SPEAKER_00:So, you've paid, yeah. Hopefully, zombie apocalypse pays pretty well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I hope they have like a good, you know, um benefits package, considering the risks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, so you you get your 40-hour a week zombie apocalypse. Um, you're you're leaving for the day, you go to your wall of weapons, which I imagine is right by your door. Um, or maybe there's a secure room in the back. I don't know where you keep your zombie weapons.
SPEAKER_03:You might get your weapon when you go to work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or maybe it's maybe it's in the umbrella holder.
SPEAKER_03:I like that. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What would be your weapon of choice before you're going to zombie work?
SPEAKER_01:You know, initially, I you know, for the longest time I've bit it, I've been a big uh like Louisville slugger kind of guy. Um, but I think about like the contagion, you know, I I I imagine like bashing some brains in, and if it's contagious, like you're getting a lot of spray with that, right? So yeah, it's so since you said imagine, I'm really gonna throw a curveball. Um, I'm probably gonna say like a lightsaber would probably be my my weapon of choice.
SPEAKER_00:You know, you bring up such a great point because as everybody who is a fan of Star Wars knows, the lightsaber instantly cauterizes the wound. So you chop off a zombie head, there's no splatter, there's no blood.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you look cool, and it's also like a light source, you know. Maybe you could start a fire with it, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So you need a light source. You are a delight. I think this would be fun. But this is just this is I thought I thought I was gonna have to say three in a row for the baseball bat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I don't, you know, and and now I'm wondering, I this is kind of off topic, or it kind of is, but like, can a lightsaber work underwater? Like, I don't know if that's ever become a thing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, there is, we have to Google this. Let's see if somebody else has asked this question.
SPEAKER_00:I I feel like episode one was like the closest we ever got to knowing the answer to that. Right, because they went to the underwater.
SPEAKER_03:Uh this has been a long discussion on Reddit from 11 years ago.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sure it goes back further than that.
SPEAKER_03:It says most lightsabers, this this is a random thing. Most lightsabers are vulnerable to water. However, uh the circle or no, not the circle, sorry, the crystal circuit can easily short out when submerged.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. All right. Well, just don't submerge that part, huh? I could put the beam in the water, probably, but yeah, but not the inside.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you'd think that somebody would have like um, you know, waterproofed their lightsaber, like just you know, dip it in some latex or something.
SPEAKER_03:This is a whole rabbit hole. This could be our whole episode. What happens? Could a lightsaber melt a bullet? What happens uh if it's it what's the coldest lightsaber? Uh can a lightsaber boil water? This is sort of in line with marine biology.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Did you learn about this in uh marine biology boot camp? There's a whole TikTok video.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm thinking about like magma, you know, like when a volcano erupts underwater and just like it's like bubbling around it. So that's how I'd imagine a lightsaber look like underwater. Yeah. Or at least the beam, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The uh the leadenfrost effect. The leadenfrost effect. The what? Yeah, you know, um, so like you can you can put your hand you can submerge your hand in like liquid nitrogen despite it being like 240 degrees below zero because of the leadenfrost effect. So like the the heat of your hand creates uh barrier. Creates a barrier because as soon as the liquid nitrogen comes in contact with your hand, it boils the liquid nitrogen because your your body temperature is higher than the boiling temperature of nitrogen. So for a little while, until the surface temperature of your skin cools down, it's just bubbles forming off of your skin and it's creating this bubble barrier.
SPEAKER_03:Jacob, does your partner also get to hear you tell her uh random facts like this? Because I'm just looking at Dan like, wait, what's happening?
SPEAKER_00:Uh let's move on to very important questions. Um you find an unlimited unlimited shelf stable food item.
SPEAKER_03:Um you're only eating it during your 40 year, this is like your lunch.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is why you're bringing the lunch every day for the rest of your life. Lunch, snacks, maybe your maybe your breakfast. I don't know if you're a breakfast before work or like you try to sneak it like while you're there. You're like, I'm gonna get paid to eat breakfast. Um either way, like this is you only get one thing, it's gotta be shelf stable because it's it's it's gotta stay there. It's gotta stay there while you're at home on the weekends.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah. So what's my pick, huh? Um, I think so. I'm gonna this is another unique answer. So you guys probably know my answer already, but I'm gonna throw another curveball at you. So I love spicy food. Like I I could eat spicy food anything. And uh I would love for Z Martin Brown to make his his uh what was it called? Last nut uh nut of the living dead. One of his peanut butter. I would love for him to make his his unique peanut butter, but if he can make a spicy peanut butter, I would love that.
SPEAKER_03:So why is the collab waiting to happen? Why isn't this a thing? Spicy peanut butter? That makes perfect sense. I mean, they've had spicy peanut sauce, right?
SPEAKER_01:And they I know they make like habanero jelly, you know? Yeah. So I don't know. I feel like spicy peanut would be great. Spicy peanut butter would be awesome. So if he makes that, I'll help him with the marketing on it.
SPEAKER_03:One of the favorite names that he gave was PB and Slay. So it could be PB and spicy sleigh? Slay spice. Um at the workshop this. Um I don't know if this question applies. Do you get to watch TV at work?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I I guess it depends now because you your your job is maybe during my lunch or something. Yeah, your your job is the zombie apocalypse. So now uh uh so you found this solar powered DVD player, and he it's time for you to slack off at work. Um but you gotta you gotta pick like one thing that you're gonna watch for the you know re at least the rest of your work life, apparently.
SPEAKER_03:With your PB and spicy slay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and like it's like a box set. So it could be a TV show, it could be like a uh a movie franchise, it could even be one of those like Walmart four in one packs that are like themed around like Harrison Ford or like vampires or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Um, I think I think I would probably want so you know it's it's a it's a tie. So it's a tie between the Twilight Zone, because I think all those are just really fun, um, very scientific, uh science fiction and a lot of philosophy in them, and they're really engaging. Or also maybe like The Simpsons, which I'm not even like a huge Simpsons fan, but you know how they say that you know these Simpsons episodes are like predicting the future. Yeah, like I would I want to see all the episodes and maybe I could find some stuff to to figure out the future. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I feel like in the zombie apocalypse, they're still making new episodes.
SPEAKER_03:Is there a zombie Simpsons?
SPEAKER_00:There has to be one of the first Tree House of Horror um uh episodes. They had uh you know, Night of the Living Dead sort of thing going on where all the people uh in Springfield got infected with a zombie virus. Homer blows Ned Flanders' heads clean off, and they're like, You killed zombie Flanders, and he was like, Flanders was a zombie?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I like Flanders.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and then also the zombies came and tried to eat Homer, but then they looked at his and at his head and became disinterested.
SPEAKER_03:Hard topic shift, last rapid fire question. This one's just for you. What ocean creature, as a marine biologist, would you be most terrified of encountering if it was a zombie?
SPEAKER_01:I think by far it would probably be a barracuda, just because they're they're scary already, like not even zombified. And they have like razor sharp teeth, they're super fast, like yeah, I think they're already a deadly weapon. So for them to have like this this uh this killer virus in them would be would be nuts.
SPEAKER_03:Do barracudas bite people?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I don't I don't think so. They no, I I really don't think so, but I don't want to take their chance. I'm sure when they're zombified, they probably do.
SPEAKER_00:They're gonna eat everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When um when we were in Jamaica, uh I was talking to um a Jamaican on the beach, and they were talking about how we were crazy for swimming where we were swimming. And uh the reason is because there were barracuda out there. Oh my gosh. And um I'm like, I'm like, oh well, if if we die, we die, I guess.
SPEAKER_03:Then I learned that the shiny things on our little GoPro handle like attracted fish. So I needed to stop using that because I was like, I don't really want to encounter a barracuda. Oh not zombified, let alone zombified.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I think like if if they have if it's like something shiny or like something that looks like a distressed, almost, you know, like any kind of fishing lure, like a barracuda might might be on the on the rampage for it.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like this is the only opportunity I can tell this story on the podcast. So I'm gonna do it. Uh me and my ex-wife went to Hawaii and we were snorkeling, and um, there were monk seals on the like there was like a special like um what's the word I'm looking for? It was like fenced off because I guess they're an endangered species. You probably know much more about this than I do. Anyways, she got I I don't like we got separated. I don't know where she was. I went back to shore and I was like, I hope you're not dead out there. I was just like waiting for her to come back. And then eventually she came back freaking out because she had had followed a monk seal and was just like watching it from the water above and then realized how deep it was. And um, she's just like looking at it, and then she decided to try and like dive down a little bit to get closer to it. That wasn't a good idea, Jacob. The thing turned around and like went up right up into her face and like blew bubbles in her face, and she's convinced to this day that it chased her back to the land. I don't know if that's true, but I was frankly jealous. I was like, I wanted that monk seal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they look they're pretty cute.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, until they're up close. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Blowing bubbles in your face, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The ocean scares me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I mean, it it kind of scares me too. There's there's a lot of stuff about it that even like during my my education, I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? Like it's that deep, or you know, that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:The the ocean seems like a world of of non-stop violence. I feel like Mitch Hedberg said it best, which is like, he was like, you know, fish can't can't make noise, they don't have vocal cords, but if they could, the ocean would be loud as shit.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Definitely.
SPEAKER_03:Well, some animals make noise, right? In the ocean, like whales, dolphins.
SPEAKER_00:But they're mammals.
SPEAKER_03:Do octopuses octopi, do they make sounds?
SPEAKER_01:Uh no, they don't they don't make any. There's I think um oh man, I just had it. I know like some some of them will will kind of like clack with their not octopuses, but um like some crustaceans, but it's more about uh like not necessarily for communication, it's more to like tell tell to scare off a predator or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean those claws are fucking scary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I like crustaceans. I mean, people love eating crab and lobster, but like, you know, e like early as a kid, they're like, we're gonna have fancy food. And I'm like, those are bugs. Yeah, you're eating giant spiders.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that's so funny.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like this is completely out of order from our outline, but I we I am required to bring up the spider crab zombies from Aquarium of the Dead right now.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And just say that they look so fake to me. But I that was one of my questions for you. Were those real? Like, were those is that what a I haven't looked it up. I've saved it for you. Is that what a crab looks like?
SPEAKER_01:Not not. I mean, they look kind of close to the uh what is it? Is it I gotta look it up? I always forget it. It's the it's it's not the king crabs, it's the let me see, those yeah, the king crabs, yeah. They uh they have those long legs. It they kind of look like that, but they wouldn't be standing up like that on the surface. They're they're not really strong enough to have those kind that kind of movement. More or less lurching at your face.
SPEAKER_03:Are they that big?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, they get they get big. Well, they they constantly grow, so they molt and then they they're only limited by you know um their environment, really, but they'll they'll keep growing.
SPEAKER_03:I know you can't see my face, but I'm so grossed out right now. That makes me want to watch it again. I think I'd have more appreciation of that scene.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't know, probably not.
SPEAKER_03:Well, before we get into more um marine biology zombie specialty that you did in school and talk about the movie Aquarium of the Dead that we watched together uh for the watch party. Actually, this week, I would love uh just to talk about our meat cute as zombie because I think it was around this time last year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that's that's that's a really great wholesome story, I think. Um so yeah, I used to host a podcast called Viva La Festiva, and it was about festivals, and it's really cool. You could really just pair a word with the word festival, like you mentioned earlier, and you could find something, whether that's yeah, the James Dean, pickles, uh, owls, everything. And um in the production of my podcast, I would make an effort to promote other podcasts that were about the theme. Yeah. And so uh I did when I was looking up festivals or zombie festivals, I came across one called the Milton Zombie Fest. And um it seemed like it was more about uh celebrating, not not necessarily zombies, but more about like uh theatrics and special effects, because I think that was the highlight is like special effects to make you look like a bleeding oozy zombie, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Delicious.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And um, so I had set that all up and then I the same thing with finding a word and finding and putting the word festival with it. I found the word and I put the word podcast next to it, and it came across to you guys. And yeah, and um, yeah, so that and I I I usually whenever I do that, I take a few uh a few days to listen into the podcast and make sure it's something I want to, you know, promote. And sure, yeah, of course. I I heard you guys and I was like, this is awesome. And uh that's how I met you guys.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Tell us more about how great we are.
SPEAKER_00:So you take a few days to make sure we're not uh we're not scamming anyone. Sure, yeah. Buy all of our herbal supplements. Make sure they're on they're on the up and up.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah. And you know, honestly, and a big thing was because I had contacted a a I w I won't mention their name, but I did contact another zombie podcast. How dare you? Well, no, this is before you guys. I'd accept, but no, that's still on a this is that's but they uh they asked me, like, well, how many listeners do you get? And I was like, what like is that a personal question? Yeah, like I don't know. It felt like, why does that matter? Like, I just want to share your podcast. I'm not even yeah, you know, charging you. I just want to promote you. Take me out to dinner first, geez. Yeah, and so it became kind of like I don't really want to, I'd rather promote Zombie Book Club podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Well, thank you. I think that that that um little story actually says a lot about who you are as a person. And obviously, we have we have developed a parasocial relationship over the last year. Um but I think it's really cool that you won, like we're so interested in just human gatherings. What is it about a festival that's so fascinating to you?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's that's a great question. Um, well, I mean, to start off, like I I I consider myself to be a pretty good, a pretty big extrovert. And so I like social events to begin with. Um and when it comes to gathering people, just the vibes are is always great. You know, it's it's especially the the stranger festivals, you know, um, where people can really embrace a comfort knowing that everyone around them is say is having the same passion as them. You know, like uh it's it's so common. There's so many pickle festivals, yeah, because you know, some people, there's a bit, there's a it's kind of like a black or white, right? Like people either love pickles or people absolutely hate pickles.
SPEAKER_03:Where do you stand on the pickle controversy?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I I love pickles, yeah. I think they're great. So that being said, you know, it's it's kind of weird to to go around saying, Oh, I love pickles, I love pickles. Um, so to be to gather in a big area where you know everybody there there loves pickles, it's just a very it's a very common ground and the vibes are great. So I think that's just really great about festivals.
SPEAKER_00:That is really true. Um I mean, going back to the pickles, like if you went to your place of work and you're like, I love pickles, they'd be like, that's cool. But like the 37th time you try to rope a coworker into a conversation, like a deep, deep pickle discussion. They're just gonna be like, This what is with this fucking weirdo talking about pickles? All is it a sexual thing? I feel uncomfortable around right. I'm I can't go to the water cooler anymore because he just talks about pickles. This was me and zombies at work. Yeah. And you know, like I'm like we we noticed that that exact thing uh when we went to Living Dead weekend where it's just like you look around and you're like, wait a second, all of these people will talk endlessly with us about zombies.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:To the same extent that we would rope strangers in to talk about zombies, they would be willing to to do that without feeling uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01:See, there you go. Yeah. So you you know, like, and some people that are kind of um I really don't want to say antisocial, but they're kind of intimidated by just intimidated to start a new conversation. There's it's like, well, we're at a pickle festival or we're at a zombie festival. There for sure is one topic we could talk about, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We're gonna see eye to eye on at least one thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, can I can I tell you guys a quick story though? Like please, because it's it's so funny that we're talking about zombies and pickles at the same time, it's just relevant. So this the story has to do with both those things. But um, do you remember when Lay's potato chips had like a competition where you had to create your own flavor?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I I remember like Eureka, I had the best idea at the time. It must have been about, let's see, September. I think it was either August or September. And I I was on the website and I created zombie flavored chips. And you know, you you pick your flavor, right? And I put pickles and I put habaneros, and I think that was it. I think it was just those two.
SPEAKER_03:And that's a zombie flavor.
SPEAKER_01:And it gives you, it gives you like a little paragraph like to explain your flavor. And I put, look, October's coming up, Halloween's coming up, the Walking Dead is huge, because it was at the time. And I said, This will be a great idea. And and then I put submit, right? And I was already thinking, like, okay, what kind of Lamborghini do I want? Like I was I was so confident. I was like, this is a winner. Like, I won. I won.
SPEAKER_00:Like, how big do you want your in-ground pool to be in? Also go inside of your mansion. It's shaped like a zombie keble or something. It's got a garage.
SPEAKER_01:But uh I didn't, of course, I didn't win. I think like garlic bread won or something like that. But how boring is but there is a zombie flavor chip out there, like and it it's after I submitted that idea. So interesting. I'm con I'm convinced they liked my idea, didn't think I don't know, that something, and then they they they created it on the side. So yeah. Oh, the talkies. Yeah, so I'm pretty sure I created that flavor, but they didn't pay me for it.
SPEAKER_03:I think they did because theirs is habanero and cucumber. That is too close. Right.
SPEAKER_01:I mean a pickling is a cucumber, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god, it is.
SPEAKER_01:You're right.
SPEAKER_00:You should say I checked Google and it checks out that cucumbers are pickles.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I forgot for a minute. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm they owe me one Lamborghini.
SPEAKER_03:At least one. And a pickle-shaped pool. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:That's a quick story, just because we were on the topic of pickles and zombies.
SPEAKER_03:Jacob, you need to sue.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's America. That's your right.
SPEAKER_00:We will be character witnesses.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And uh and when they ask what makes us qualified for being character witnesses, we'll say that we put you through the ringer and ask you very personal questions.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_00:And now we are soul bonded.
SPEAKER_01:And now now you owe them Lamborghinis too, as well.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, we're gonna ride your coattails.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody gets Lamborghinis.
SPEAKER_03:Do you miss podcasting?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, I do. Especially like I think I we I had talked about how to pass the time at work, I listen to podcasts, and I truly think, like, man, if I had just uh if I had a co-host or like an editor or something, you know, I I always think um I would I'd like to podcast again just because there's so much of festivals and there's so many out there that you know really deserve um a highlight, you know, like just the other day, someone and people like my friends know I love festivals, and this so whenever they find weird festivals, they'll send them to me. And someone sent me the Iowa State Fair, I think, where they have the husband calling competition. Yeah. Yeah, the husband hollering competition or something like that, where these these women they like pretend to holler for their husband, like, Dale, you get back in this house, your data's getting cold. And they they like select a winner. And I'm just like, that I that deserves uh an investigation. Like, I need to learn more about that.
SPEAKER_03:And also, like if this is you know a business, you can write off that trip. That's kind of brilliant.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that and so that oh man, and then I I would really love to have been like some kind of like Anthony Bourdain character that like travels for these festivals and stuff like that. Yeah. But I there's I'm really not joking. You could really find uh festivals for just about anything. I found a festival about pallets, like the wooden pallets.
SPEAKER_03:I can see that big palette front.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:We've got a bunch in our backyard waiting to become projects, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And and you'll never believe this. There's also a podcast about pallets, too. So the palette cast? Wait.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we need to have a hammock festival. Because that's our podcast idea, Jacob. Is I want a podcast about hammocks where we're in a hammock.
SPEAKER_01:Hammock cast.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and we review hammocks.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. There you go. Oh, reviewing hammocks, that'd be awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it was it was really more of like a uh a scheme that we came up with to get free hammocks. Like, we wanted like to have like a hundred hammocks.
SPEAKER_03:Jacob, you've changed my life. Hang con, the largest hammock hang event worldwide.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm serious, man. You could really put any word in front of festival and like you will find a group of people celebrating it. Like, I mean, unicorns. Uh there's a Santa Claus. I I mean, I can go on and on, but yeah, this whenever I find things like that, I'm just like, oh, I really want to like talk to people about this. And and yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's also so many like weird festivals too that like you wouldn't know about unless you were in that very specific sub-genre of special interest.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. There's I think like Red Skelton, who I don't even know who that I think that's like a an actor or some kind of entertainer. There's like a Red Skelton festival, and you know, like people celebrate. I mean, earlier when you mentioned the James Dean Festival, that one is celebrated because it's celebrated in Fairmount, Indiana, which is where he was raised. And so it's it's not even really about a passion, it's more about a pride of knowing that James Dean was raised there, and so they they celebrate him, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah I mean, you've got a winning ticket like that, you should.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like when I lived in Augusta, Georgia, it was all about James Brown because he was born in Augusta. Everywhere. Yeah. Although there I don't believe there was a James Brown festival in Augusta. Missed opportunity. I should go back down there and be like, y'all.
SPEAKER_00:You're missing out on something big. And then they're like, yeah, people thought about that, but also uh we decided not to because of racism. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And the and these festivals, man, they they really put the area on the net on the map, you know, like they're huge economic boosts, yeah, for these cities.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like we would never have gone to Monroeville, Pennsylvania, if not for the Monroeville Mall from Dawn on the Dead ever.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Let's talk more about zombies. Gonna bring us back to our favorite. Speaking of special interests, uh we have a variety of more questions for you that are specifically marine biology focused and zombie related in preparation for our main discussion, which is Aquarium of the Dead, the movie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, these are serious scientific questions for you. If zombies walked into the ocean, like in the movies, how long would it take before they got picked clean by fish?
SPEAKER_01:This is a really great question. I really had to use um some imaginations to make this a scenario because when you say walked into the ocean, that's um that there's a lot of factors to that. Because are we talking the sh like from a sandy shore, a pebble shore, walked off a cliff into the ocean, you know? I love the collid idea. Yeah, so and I I do too. Fell off a barge. Yeah, a barge, you know. So I went with the shore idea, and I I kind of said that this zombie or zombies, they maybe they were starving and they heard like a dolphin, like, you know, like do their little cry, and they're like, Oh my gosh, there's uh a person over there. I'm gonna go eat them. So they they start going into the ocean, and I like to imagine like a riptide kind of just took them out because there's so much wave action on the shores that not a lot of um prey would, or not a lot of predators, would go there for the for that to eat something. So um the riptide takes them out, probably about a hundred yards. And I'm gonna say that these zombies, they like sink, you know, they're not gonna float, they're gonna sink. Now, there is where they're gonna get absolutely demolished. You have um detritivores, like your your crabs, your uh your um some your snails and stuff like that. Just and detritivores are creatures that eat like dead material.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, they're gonna be excited about zombies at the bottom of the ocean.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so exactly. They they wouldn't really this zombie wouldn't really be torn apart by like uh by sharks or anything like that, or like sea lions, just because like I mean, sharks don't even like the taste of living humans, so I don't think they're gonna like the taste of like a dead human. So um, so I really don't think they're gonna get like massacred by a giant predator in one big gulp, but for sure they're gonna get picked apart pretty quickly by detritivores. And I I had to talk to my other biology friends because this is this is a really great question.
SPEAKER_02:I love that you consulted.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because I was like, and they asked us you never they asked the same thing.
SPEAKER_00:They're like, well, it depends on what beach they're like we're talking about falling off of a barge in a cliff.
SPEAKER_01:But I think we came to an understanding that about a week tops would it all it would take for it to be cleaned, like just just devoured down to the bones.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know why this is giving me so much dopamine that you can salt in your marine biology for us.
SPEAKER_02:That's wonderful.
SPEAKER_00:You know, follow-up question Are they gonna be able to get into the cranial cavity, or do we have a bleach-boned zombie skeleton with no mobility, no eyes, no skin, no muscles, but there's still a brain in there?
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, we're we're gonna get a bleach-boned body down because I mean, once you get to the abyss, like deep down there, where there's no penetrating light, nothing, any kind of nutrients is is is getting devoured. So once if as as long as that zombie can move forward or like to a deeper depth, it's getting devoured the whole way. Like down to the bones.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like they're they're gonna get the calcium out of the bones.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, the calcium, the uh, so there's already calcium carbonate like in the ocean. So um that's no, as long as they I think the mollusks and stuff that like utilize calcium, they're gonna get that from the from the from the water already. So it'll just be the bones, but there will be no brain, especially no brain. That's probably the tasty bit for me.
SPEAKER_03:Literally, my mouth is just a gape, being like, man, this you really are a marine biologist. Damn, this is this is impressive knowledge. But also, I think it's ruined every single zombie movie I've ever watched where they come out of the ocean. I'm like, no, this Jacob said that they would be gone within a week, and there's no way they would have crossed the ocean and then come back out again. That's gonna be me watching the TV.
SPEAKER_01:And then, I mean, if if they're uh if their bones don't get down to the very deep and they're kind of like at a at a maybe about 20 foot deep area, their bones will actually be substrate for like many different things, like for um for a sea anemone and for uh barnacles and algae and all sorts of stuff. Even like jellyfish will kind of uh live out their first stages of their their lives as um little creatures that are attached to a substrate, which could be the bones.
SPEAKER_00:So it's kind of a nice end. It's almost kind of like a coral, almost like yeah. It's I'm I'm imagining now like an army of of zombies get you know drawn into the ocean, and it's just this bone graveyard, and over you know decades and decades, and maybe even hundreds of years, fish are living in these bones and they just build up this bone coral.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, I'm just imagining a whole alternate version of 28 years later where the bone, what is it called? The bone temple that's underwater and it's like a whole fish sanctuary.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow. Dang.
SPEAKER_03:That'd be kind of pretty.
SPEAKER_02:That'd be rad.
SPEAKER_03:Did you know, Jacob, that when you were getting your marine biology degree, that one day you'd be asked questions about zombies in the ocean?
SPEAKER_01:I did not know, but I know that like understanding the cycle of what goes into the ocean, you know, that's that's a big part of that helped me answer this question.
SPEAKER_00:I I love that it's that you also consulted your fellow colleagues on this very serious question of zombies walking into the ocean.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh next question. If you had to pick one marine animal as your apocalypse sidekick, who are you choosing? I put some options here in the list, but I'm gonna just let you pick whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh marine animal as your apocalypse sidekick. I would probably know, I'd probably say the dolphin, a dolphin, but more specifically, a female bottlenose, not a male bottlenose. Um, the male bottlenose can be a little aggressive, especially since they know, yeah, they know the difference between a male and a female human. So yeah, I'd rather a female dolphin bottlenose to be my my uh my apocalypse partner psychic.
SPEAKER_03:Would you ride that like would you like ride it and like take it around?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. It'd pretty I'd I'd feel bad because it'd pretty much be like my boat. Like I would be water horse. Yeah, basically of like onward and yeah, take me across whatever.
SPEAKER_03:So it's a great movie. I want to see this movie. This is already everything you shared is already better better than the entirety of Aquarium of the Dead. Spoiler before we even get to that. It's better. Um, Dan, do you have do you have zombie apocalypse ocean questions?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, we have more to ask.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I can ask those. That sounds good. Uh which marine organism? Marine organism is most likely to survive the zombie apocalypse unchanged. Oh my goodness. Hmm.
SPEAKER_01:I I think there's a lot of creature or marine organisms that would survive, really. Um, but I think one of the the coolest ones would probably be just jellyfish, just because there's really no they're they're not a complex creature at all. Like they they they yeah, they don't have a brain. They're the zombies of the ocean. Right, pretty much. Like they they just kind of move, they're not active hunters, they don't really they they just live. That's just what they do, they just exist and that's it.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I love that for them.
SPEAKER_03:Is it true that because of climate change it's getting the ocean's getting warmer and there's like a jellyfish population explosion? I saw this somewhere once on like a 30-second TikTok video.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I could imagine so. Yeah, I could definitely imagine so. I mean, with the when it comes to climate change and the ocean temperatures rising, um, that could throw off the ecosystem very very like a lot. Yeah. And um, you have these you have these creatures called um keystone organisms in an ecosystem. They're kind of like the I mean, they're exactly what it sounds like, the keystone. So if anything kind of affects their behaviors, like climate change, like water temperatures, um, and that affects their eating habits, well, that could change the food chain in general. And so that could definitely cause a an a jellyfish bloom.
SPEAKER_03:Are jellyfish keystones?
SPEAKER_01:No, but uh the the uh just the predators, like sea turtles. Sea turtles are our keystone um creatures in certain ecosystems, so and they they love they love jellyfish.
SPEAKER_03:They don't get stung?
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, no, they uh I think they they prey on the uh the bells more so, but I mean, and I'm sure it varies for every you know, certain kinds of jellyfish and certain kinds of sea turtles, but for the most part, yeah, um jellyfish are like the biggest uh prey for sea turtles, just because they're easy pickings, too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I know there's this thing called Google, but like I could literally just ask you every single ocean question I've ever wondered, and I'm like enjoy the soap.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it's it's so tough because like there's I can't give you like one answer because there's always like so many complex like creatures, like I said, it's some certain jellyfish and some certain sea turtles.
SPEAKER_03:So I think that's like a a marker of somebody who knows a lot about something is knowing that you can never say I just said the word never, but you can never say never and always in any circumstance, you know, something with humans.
SPEAKER_01:Right. That's why I had to do some research on how many, how long would it take for a zombie to uh get picked me in the ocean?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh. We might have to have you back to just like give you a bunch of different scenarios and be like, all right, let's walk through every single one of these in the decomposition process. Yeah. Uh what inspired you to get into marine biology in the first place if it wasn't zombies in the ocean? Oh sh.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I grew up in in Texas and more specifically the Gulf Coast, and even more specifically the RGV, which is like the very, very bottom part of Texas. And um I we would go to the beach almost on a weekly basis with my family, and from there on out, I mean, oh, and then that just having that like experience being at the beach and and um exploring that kind of wildlife, but also like I remember going to the public library, and every time we would go, I would rent the same movie. It was like I it was I don't remember the name of it, but it was Robin Williams, and he was doing a documentary on dolphins. And it was like I loved Robin Williams. He was like my favorite actor whenever uh like my favorite movie was Flubber at the time as a child. And I would watch Flubber, and then I also loved dolphins, and so like to see Robin Williams interacting with dolphins, it was like my favorite movie. Like I said, I would rent it all the time, like when I would go to the library. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. I had a similar thing, but it was horses, and I did not become a horse biologist. I don't think that's actually a thing. Watching somebody studies horses that is also a biologist. But um, how do you feel about what's happening to the oceans today? Um, because I know we had talked a little bit in advance of this around sort of zombies as a metaphor for Mother Earth's revenge, and I'm wondering if you think the ocean is due for some revenge.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I love that. Yeah, that's such a great question. I also feel like such a like traitor to the human race sometimes because you're in good company. That's fine. Because, like, for an example, um, like I mentioned, the RGV, excuse me. Um, the there's like a strip of island, the South Padre Island, and um there's of course there's a lot of resorts there, there's a lot of hotels, there's a lot of like clubs and partying and spring breaks and nightmare and X, Y, and Z. And um, I remember seeing an article that like the waves are they're tearing down the beach, and like there's that island is getting eroded away in a way. And I'm like, yes. Like, take it all down, yes, return to the sea. Exactly, yeah. Um, so uh and also because during my college education, there was always that one chapter in every single marine biology course where it talks about human impact on the ocean, and it was just like the most depressing chapter of the whole of every course, you know. And so that's that's what kind of inspired me to also kind of investigate um, you know, more into the ocean and what, and like I said, understanding the cycles that go about it. So whenever I see uh, you know, a zombie movie, like or a movie that, like I said, it's Mother Nature taking its revenge, kind of like the happening, you know, how it kind of quote unquote zombified um these humans. Um, that's I kind of yeah. Um, or like in the The Last of Us, where you see all these giant structures, these giant skyscrapers, and they're just overtaken by nature. I'm like, yes. I'm like, that's a good thing. This is a good thing.
SPEAKER_00:You know, there was this this show, um, and I've only seen a couple episodes of it, and I kind of just want to like binge it now. It was I think it was called like after there were humans, I think is what it was called. And it would it would always it was like a a documentary show where they'd talk about like what would happen if all the humans disappeared on one day. Yeah, it sounds great.
SPEAKER_02:I remember that one.
SPEAKER_00:And it was always stories like, you know, this uh this this yacht capsizes on a beach somewhere, and then birds start shitting on it, and then they shit seeds all over the boat, and then one day all that bird shit turns into soil, and the seeds grow, and there's trees, and then that boat just keeps on getting bigger and bigger with all the the soil from all the bird shit and all the seeds, and then finally one day it's this huge island, and I'm like, Yeah, that's what I want to happen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's way more beneficial to the ocean than a yacht being out there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:A little bit. I mean, I do think that a lot of like you're totally right, and I was grateful you brought it up that a lot of zombie fiction is uh a metaphor for Mother Earth's revenge. I really love Blood Quantum. I don't know if you've watched that movie, but um, if you haven't, I highly recommend it because there are zombie fish and it's it's absolutely about Mother Earth taking revenge, but only on white people because the native population is immune. Um, oh there you go. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I really thoroughly enjoyed that movie.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh what do you think it is about the zombie apocalypse? Like, is it is the appeal for you, Jacob, about like the possibility of a reset or just the elimination of humanity? What is it that you like about the zombie apocalypse?
SPEAKER_01:That's a that's a great question. I I do think um it I like the idea of the reset, you know. Um the the idea of a of, or sorry, I'm sorry, not the idea of a reset, the idea, or I mean, yeah, the reset, but not of of myself, of of like Mother Nature, you know. I do think like it's a great, it's it's uh it's a a kind of quote unquote like a violent way, you know, of course. But also I do think that um kind of tying back to festivals is a big thing about festivals is community, right? So a lot of great things that you see in some of these zombie films or series is um a colony, you know, a community that they work together, they start their own chores. Like in 28 days, uh 28 years later, there's the island, right? Where people they have their jobs, they work together, they even have their own parties, their rites of passages. Um so I kind of like that when it comes to the zombie um apocalypse uh genre, is that there's these colonies that come together, these communities that come together and they kind of form um their social norms, or like in The Last of Us, when there was that the uh the colony that came together and they they all worked, they all understand their jobs. So uh I like those parts.
SPEAKER_03:I love that you you tied in the festivals. That was impressive. But I think I think we're aligned there. That is also what I love the zombie apocalypse. And I sometimes get annoyed when there's shows Walking Dead, where every time things are going okay for the community, there always has to be like a big bad guy.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like, no, I just want to watch them grow berries, okay? Like that's what I want to watch. See them rebuild society. Is there something that we could learn from the ocean or any like particular ocean creatures about how to be better and like in better community with each other as people? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, and this this I'm gonna give you a very kind of like complex, uh, it's it's it's a reach. We'll we'll we'll see how it goes. So um, so blue whales, the giant, the largest creature on earth, right? Um they eat they they have to they have to eat krill, right? These little tiny little creatures that are in the ocean. Love krill. Right. Yeah. So they eat so much, they eat so many krill that the amount of energy that they get from that krill would in order for them to get that much energy, they would have to eat two orcas a day.
SPEAKER_03:Dang.
SPEAKER_01:So that's a lot of orcas. That's a lot of orcas, right? And very not sustainable. Imagine every blue whale eating two orcas a day.
SPEAKER_03:Who would who would sink the yachts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. So in order so because that's not a very sustainable thing, and I'm not sure the blue whale don't consciously donate this, but they they are designed and they've they've evolved to feast on krill, a lot easier to to prey upon, and krill reproduce a lot quicker and in greater numbers, right? So I think see what you can take from that. So what that kind of says is that theoretically we should be eating further down the food chain. So um, like instead of eating a cow, what do cows eat? They eat grass, right? So I've heard that, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So and to to grow grass that takes water. Well, let's let's think of this in terms of water. So you need water to grow the grass, but you also need water to feed the cow, right? But if you were to just eat grass, and when I say grass, I mean veggies, of course. Yeah, you you don't need as much water, right? You don't need water for the cow. So that's an example of eating down the food chain. Um, if you look into it, this is kind of an argument for eating anchovies and sardines. Um, they they populate a lot quicker, a lot faster, and they contain a lot of um nutrients that don't get passed down to you if you were to eat their prey.
SPEAKER_03:So interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So that's something to think about. And I always think about that, like the blue whales, like of course they can't eat two orcas a day, so they eat krill. So if if we were to eat the more populated uh resource that's available to us, that's it could be more sustainable to us.
SPEAKER_00:So we should eat krill.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, keep going. I mean, krill krill are shrimp, so like eating shrimp is technically the I guess the equivalent.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I really appreciate that. I think it could be that metaphor could be extended to other things, like just um living life lower on the food chain, like what's immediately around you and available. Uh and we have we live in a world where it's an illusion that there these things are available to us because they're at Walmart, you can get them off Amazon. But the resource intensity to get them is the equivalent of eating two orcas a day when you could just be, you know, getting your soap from your neighbor who makes soap.
SPEAKER_00:And then eat the soap.
SPEAKER_03:Eat the soap. Yes. That's this is all making complete sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I a long time ago, way back when I was first first uh becoming enamored with the idea of like homesteading and growing your own food and stuff. I was, you know, I was like, well, how how much how much food do I have to feed these animals? You know, like how much does it take? Um, and I I found this very simplified diagram that kind of gave you an idea of what your expenditures are going to be if you're raising certain types of animals. Um and which would be like the the most food per grain investment. Everything was just like it was just like this is how much grain it takes. Um so like the best grain to food uh ratio was a fish because they don't have to battle gravity. So it's like one pound of grain equals one pound of flesh. One pound of fish. Really? I didn't know that. Oh a chicken.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I'm I'm totally I'm I'm enamored right now because that's yeah, that's called the FCR, the feed conversion ratio. And that's something I've learned about. And yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, you could care to elaborate, please.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it and it and it keeps on going from there. So uh like a chicken, a chicken um is small, it doesn't weigh that much, so it doesn't have to burn that much energy to stay standing, but it still has to fight gravity, unlike the fish. So you've got two pounds of grain to one pound of chicken.
SPEAKER_03:So what's the feed conversion ratio for a zombie?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know yet. But let's let's work our way up the line because I have a point.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Uh uh pigs were somewhere in the range of uh three to four pounds of grain per one pound of pig, and cows were eight pounds of grain to one pound of beef. And when I was looking at that, I'm just like, well, how many pounds of grain do I need? Because it seems like this is not a very good return on investment if I gotta buy all this fucking grain. It's not the the math isn't mathing on this on this cow over here. And uh and my realization was that like uh it makes sense if you don't have to pay for the grain. So like if you are out in the prairies and you can you can let your animals harvest on public lands that you don't necessarily have to buy or maintain, they just go and do it.
SPEAKER_03:And then you uh can murder the wolves.
SPEAKER_00:You gotta murder the wolves. It takes away from the uh antelopes or whatever's out in the plains, I don't know. Um buffaloes. And uh and yeah, when I came down to it, I'm like, well, if I gotta grow the grain, because I'm like, what if I grow the grain? Does that make it more affordable? And I'm like, but if I just grow the grain, maybe I just eat the grain.
SPEAKER_01:You're right, exactly. There's your eating down the the line, eating down the food chain.
SPEAKER_03:I need a uh bracelet that says what would blue whales do.
SPEAKER_00:You know, that brings us to the thing that we uh that we came here to talk about. Um you know, I'm glad that we've spent an hour and five minutes leading into this topic so that we can blaze through it real quick. Aquarium of the Undead. It's the reason that we're here. We watched it. It's a movie.
SPEAKER_03:It's Aquarium of the Dead. This is this is me making a mistake in our notes. There you go, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, Aquarium of the Dead. Leah fixed it. Um Aquarium of the Dead is a movie where uh it's made by the same people who made um the Zoom movies. Zoomies one and two and two. This is like Zoombies three, basically. It's I guess this is supposed to be like the prequel, actually. But Zoombies 2 is a prequel to Zoombies 1. I don't know. It's just a prequel to Zombies 2.
SPEAKER_03:It also references Zombies 1. Zoombies 1 is happening at most the same time as Aquarium of the Dead.
SPEAKER_00:You know, they okay, so um it's an aquarium. Uh they got lots of fish uh in marine life there. As one does. And uh and you know what? It does take place during one because um the doctor from Zombies One comes in to tell him, hey, you know that mysterious green shit that uh you have for some reason? Um don't inject any animals with it because it's bad. And they're like, we'll do, we'll destroy it, and they didn't. That's that's the premise of the of of the movie. And uh just like Zombies 1 and Zombies 2, the animals become infected.
SPEAKER_03:The fish.
SPEAKER_00:They are animals.
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah. Jacob, did you like this movie?
SPEAKER_01:It was it was disturbingly good. Uh it was a fun ride for sure. There were some like some holes that I I don't know if I blinked and missed it or something, but our there there were two characters, the uh the lead Aquarist and the birthday boy, which birthday man. I don't want to think it's a it's a boy, it's a man. Um it's his birthday, so he is a man now.
SPEAKER_03:He might be emotionally more like a child.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There there was a scene where they were like running away and they said, Oh my gosh, the otters. That is that did I imagine that, or did that actually happen? They were yeah, they were talking about otters. But did we see otters?
SPEAKER_00:We didn't see any otters.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay, good. I thought I like missed that. I was like, when did otters attack them?
SPEAKER_00:Like yeah, there was they they saw them through the fence, I think. Um, but they never showed us what those otters looked like because that's expensive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um what what I found interesting is the uh the the marine biologist who's taking this VIP on their birthday batch, um you know, after the after they're like uh why do we want to go in there uh with with otters and other things? And and the guy's like, well, otters are mammals. Oh, he's like, I don't want to go in there with otters and fish. And and then he's like, well, otters are actually mammals. And uh he's like, well, well, I don't want to go in there with mammals. And they're and he said, uh, they're the only mammals. Later, there's more mammals. Yeah, right. So what's going on there?
SPEAKER_03:He was probably just trying to make them feel better. Also, they weren't the only mammals because they were all mammals. I feel like that's an important thing to do.
SPEAKER_00:Some of them were fish, Leah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but the humans are mammals.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, the humans are okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like we never include ourselves on the list of mammals, and I'm like, hello.
SPEAKER_00:You're right, we're mammals. Um that's that's the thing though, Leah. The otters, mammals, humans, mammals. Fair to say that there's more mammals in there. However, just like Zombies 1 and Zoombies 2, the fucking aquarium is devoid of people visiting the aquarium. It's just the people who work there, which there was a surprising number of. Um, and this this birthday man on his VIP tour, he was the only one who wanted to work with. I love that part. I it is it is actually the thing that I love thinking about when I think about all these Zoombies movies. It's like there's always a point where they have to explain why there's nobody at the park. And it's always like, this is a new park, or we're getting we're we're setting up for something big. And in this one, they don't really explain that, but they do mention that all of their um aquarium stuff is out of date and hasn't been updated in six years. And I'm like, so you've been over for at least six years because the thing that's failing now is hasn't been updated in six years. Is there anything that you loved about broken for six years?
SPEAKER_03:Did you is do we think that do we agree this is like a Mother Earth revenge arc to be of this movie?
SPEAKER_01:Uh you know, I don't think there was enough uh damage to the human race for it to be considered human nature. Yeah, I would have loved to see more people uh screaming in terror.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there could have been so many more like with the octopus friend, there could have been so many more disgusting and horrifying things. Like they could have had body parts ripped apart.
SPEAKER_02:Sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:We could have watched the beak like absolutely decimate somebody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It did, it did, um there was um a scene where the octopus uh terrifyingly um when it attacks rotated 20 degrees. Um, defying gravity exposed its beak and clacked it and then flew at somebody.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Or the the starfish that was able to leap onto that lady's face.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's a zombie, so like it's got some extra juice, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. It's got the the rage.
SPEAKER_03:What do starfish actually eat?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think they they just eat like uh algae and whatever's on the surface there. So are they vegetarian? Like no, so they also eat oysters, but they I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but they they shoot their well, they don't say shoot, but they they put their stomach outside of their body into an oyster or any kind of bivalve, and then it kind of like digest digests it in there in their own shell, and then it kind of brings in brings it in back into them, into their body.
SPEAKER_03:That is more horrifying than a zombie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I think I think the one in the movie, it was just chomping down on that that that lady's abdomen. Like I don't think it was digesting it from the inside out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, you see, it was a zombie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was the chewing aspect, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I do love watching the random animals. Um, I also like becoming zombies. I enjoyed the shark scene quite a bit, just because like when they're all the sharks are just like laying on the ground.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And they're climbing over them.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know like what they were doing there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there was this whole thing about like them being blind. So like there was a there was an alligator zombie that just kind of like honestly, it looked like somebody was holding a toy alligator in front of the camera, just like moving it, and it was just like kind of just walking along doing a whole lot of nothing, yeah. Unless somebody made a noise and then it would chomp at them. But I don't think it ever did. I don't think it ever attacked anyone.
SPEAKER_01:No, it did fight that walrus though, right? Or did it not? It came face to face with the zombie walrus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I thought they were buddies. I totally I mean, I might not have been totally paying attention, which happens for me a lot. These kinds of movies, the thing I like the best, if I'm gonna put a love it, is watching it with other people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's the most fun part. And also uh doing our preview episode, or not pre- we I made like uh what was it called back in the day where you had it was like cartoons before a movie talking about?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh I don't know what you call them.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. Was this a thing for you in your childhood where you go to a movie, Jacob, and they'd like show like Bugs Bunny or something first, or is this just my super rural upbringing? Are you 75 years old? We went to these tiny little theaters and they'd be like, here's this Bugs Bunny little short.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway. I mean, you're not just talking about like a like a trailer, no? Like you're talking about something else.
SPEAKER_03:It'd be like a little mini cartoon story that they would play before the movie. This must be like a Beaverton, Ontario tiny town situation. Yes, I grew up in a place near called Beaverton. Um make of that what you will. But uh I will. Um, I did play for you all, and you were there at that point. The the uh oceans facts for babies. Yeah. And you you let me know a very technical term for one of the fish. That was also one of my favorite ones, uh, or favorite moments. Not from this movie, but from when we watched it. Do you remember what the fish was called?
SPEAKER_01:The orangish, oranges, fishticus or something.
SPEAKER_03:Fish to fish to kiss, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The species of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because they just were teaching these babies orange fish, and I'm like, that's not even the writer. I know.
SPEAKER_00:So one of your favorite parts of this movie was before the movie and the baby cartoon that we watched before the movie. Correct. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:What did we hate about it?
SPEAKER_00:Oh boy.
SPEAKER_01:What did I hate about it? Oh, okay. I gotta my gripe was that you know, our Marian Biologist was like, oh, those are makos, you don't want to mess with those. And they showed black tip sharks, so I'm a little offended by that. Those are the wrong sharks.
SPEAKER_00:You know, you'd think that the uh visual effects uh coordinator, when they were going to turbo squid to download their 3D uh shark model, would have typed in Mako Shark to get the right model instead of just being like, whatever shark, just any shark.
SPEAKER_01:Well well, no, actually, like the they were showing the real sharks there at the aquarium, the uh the ones in, I don't know, one of the tanks, and he was calling those Makos, but those were actually blacktipped sharks. And so I'm like, what? But I will say, I think the CGI sharks that they that they had, they I think those did look like Makos, but yeah, they they they uh I was surprised by that. They had like the big ol' eyes and the longer snout, but the uh the actual sharks that were there, he was calling those Makos when they were actually blacked.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe they changed the dialogue because all they could get from on the budget was the Mako 3D model, yeah. But they didn't have any at the Aquarius.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, they don't do.
SPEAKER_00:They were like, guys, we're not paying$65 for the right shark when we can get a Mako shark for$20.
SPEAKER_03:They didn't know Jacob Kehass would be watching.
SPEAKER_02:Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Uh you know, and like a lot of these movies tend to have like this this sort of like um obsessive detail to the animals, as if like the person who wrote it is like, I'm so into animals. But then when they actually go to make the movie, they're just like just whatever. We don't care about facts. No, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I asked you right at the beginning, do octopus I call them octopuses. It's it's affectionate, so I'm just gonna say it. Do octopuses make sounds? And you were like, no. And that octopus was roaring, just like the giraffes on Zoomies one. It's like this is that's what ruins it for me. It's gotta be accurate animal sounds, like when horses whinny every time they're in a scene. When you rev them. It really infuriates me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When you rev them, oh my god. That's hilarious. I think we have to uh talk about the racist, sexist, capitalist, ableist thing of the living deck. Because I think there was a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Well, uh like all Zoombies, uh part of the Zombies franchise, if I dare call it that, they had female leads.
SPEAKER_00:It's true.
SPEAKER_03:There was strong female leads, yeah, not overly sexualized. Yeah. That was a win. However, I'm pretty sure every person who died was a black person.
SPEAKER_00:It yeah. At least until they ran out of black people.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um there was a like I'm I'm looking at it and I'm like, there's actually some pretty good representation there. And then a walrus chomps down on the VIP birthday man. Right. And then uh, and then um Vivica Fox.
SPEAKER_01:Who was she she was like the like the the top one, right? Like this, like the the manager, like top manager. She had a very high position, right? But then she falls into the into the into the water with the octopus, right?
SPEAKER_00:Because of her high position, she fell.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I I think Ollie was the one that pointed out I wasn't paying attention, but uh Vivica Fox uh grabs the axe and jumps towards the octopus to sacrifice herself and try to kill the octopus, but then in the next scene was falling backwards down into the water. Yeah, so uh let let us know. Let us know, director of that movie.
SPEAKER_03:I don't think we ever want to talk to them. We've established okay. This is a real existential question I have. When you make a bad movie, do you know it's bad? Like when you make this franchise, do you just lean in and say, I am making the worst zombie movie I can think of?
SPEAKER_01:Maybe it's kind of like like a Sharknado loyalist, you know. They're like, well, I already watched the second one, let's just watch the third one. Like maybe they're banking on that. You know, they're like, look, we already did Zombies one, Zubies 2. Like, let's just, I don't know, let's just throw an aquarium in.
SPEAKER_03:Are you a Sharknado loyalist?
SPEAKER_01:I I have not seen any of the Sharknadoes.
SPEAKER_00:They didn't make you study that in in school.
SPEAKER_01:I did want to, I did want to do that for Halloween one year, is dress up as a Sharknado, but I have yet maybe I'll do that this year. The whole tornado.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh they they did make a Sharknado reference. Uh they did. That's right. Yeah, because they were they were looking at the sharks and they're like, I hope a tornado doesn't come through. And the person's like, what that sounds stupid. What's it's gonna what's it gonna do? Just suck up the sharks. Which I appreciate. I thought that was actually pretty funny.
SPEAKER_03:They do make references, like they made references to Jurassic Park and Zombies too.
SPEAKER_00:It's true as well.
SPEAKER_03:So I think they know that they're bad. That's I I think the director would know, and that's okay with it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, uh, I I haven't done like a huge deep dive on these movies, but I'm pretty sure that like these are um produced by sci-fi, the the the channel, the TV channel for terrible, terrible, terrible sci-fi movies. Um and like the ideas are like we don't want to put a lot of money into this, but we want we want that like viral hit of Sharknado. Make something ridiculous. That's our business model.
SPEAKER_03:Could a single fish break an aquarium tank?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely not. Yeah, I think we all we all have that gripe on it. I mean, yeah, no, that would not happen.
SPEAKER_00:But it was a piranha. One and everybody knows that piranha have unbreakable teeth.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00:And an aquarium glass is an unmovable object. And this is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unbreakable object. Is the unbreakable object breaks and then zombie piranhas come out.
SPEAKER_03:What if someone listens to this and actually thinks you're telling the truth?
SPEAKER_00:I am telling the truth.
SPEAKER_03:I will say briefly, I do think there was a good critique of um capitalism there and just like prioritization of money.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Disinvesting in the aquarium.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I forgot that there was this whole like subplot of the politician who was like who was also like the owner somehow? There's some It was confusing.
SPEAKER_03:It's like on the ch the chair of the board or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they cast a guy who actually did look like he was a senator.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, that's what my wife and I were thinking. When we're like, they picked a good that guy does look like a political figure.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, is your wife watching too?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she was next to me watching it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh does she have a favorite or most hated thing that you remember her saying?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I I the crabs genuinely kind of grossed her out. She was, she did not like the crabs.
SPEAKER_00:When crabs attack somebody, um, do they stand on top of them and box them like they're doing a speed bag at a gym?
SPEAKER_01:No, but that was so ridiculous. No, they probably just you know, go for whatever's at the they go for the ankles there. So I thought that was kind of funny though. They just instinctively lurched for your face, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you gotta get the face meet.
SPEAKER_03:That's what zombies do.
SPEAKER_00:Zombie rolls. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, Zeds. We gotta give them.
SPEAKER_00:If you're gonna have to give them.
SPEAKER_03:I think Jacob has to do it first. From a marine biology point of view, how many Zeds out of a scale of one to ten would you give this movie?
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna give this one. You know, I was gonna rank a little bit lower, but they did give that little fun fact about the blue ring octopus. So I'm gonna give it an extra Zed. I'm gonna say a whopping four Zeds out of ten.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. Wow. What was the blue ring octopus fact? I've already forgotten it.
SPEAKER_01:That that they were one of the most venomous creatures. Yeah. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_00:Is that what that goopy clear liquid was?
SPEAKER_01:No, I don't, I don't, I think they took a liberty with that one. I don't think octopi are very, or octopuses are very like slimy, to be honest. Like I don't think they they drip a slime like that, no. That was gross.
SPEAKER_00:I thought it was octopuses.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, octopus.
SPEAKER_03:Uh what would you give it, Danny?
SPEAKER_00:Oh boy.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna give it one, so I feel like your four is very generous and kind.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm I'm gonna do something a little different here because I was kind of impressed. And I'm always impressed when it comes to these movies, because you know, sometimes you watch a movie and it's poorly written. Sometimes you watch a movie it's poorly acted, sometimes you watch a movie and it's poorly directed, or the special effects are terrible and there's uh no budget and the cinematography is terrible. And this one really hit the mark on all of those things. I'm gonna oh man. I mean, because of that, I'm gonna give it five stars because I was just impressed how they can manage to just thoroughly what? Where'd the Zeds go?
SPEAKER_03:Have you had too much monster to drink?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. What do you mean where do they go? I just gave it five.
SPEAKER_03:You said stars.
SPEAKER_00:Stars. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, I've had too many monster.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um five out of ten. Yeah, because I'm I I'm I'm so impressed that they've committed so wholly to uh just making sure that every step of the way you know this is a bad movie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I I do hope I do hope that they gave the aquarium some publicity. And so now people are like, oh yeah, I like I hope that the aquarium, the actual aquarium, like promotes the uh the movie and like, hey, check maybe that's doing sports. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They're like, come come to the aquarium lock-in. We're gonna watch Aquarium of the Dead, right? And it's on repeat.
SPEAKER_01:Because we're the only aquarium of a theater, right? So maybe they could play it. That's right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, could they just do my friend the octopus teacher or whatever that's called? That's what I want to watch. Not Aquarium of the Dead ever again, which is why we saved it for last, because there were so many other more interesting in-depth conversations we could have. There's only so much to say about this movie. Um, well, for those of you who don't know, because you're not here with us right now, it's actually late because Jacob very graciously agreed to do this interview after work. So thank you, Jacob, for doing that. Um I really and truly could ask you every ocean question I've ever had, and I have exercised great restraint not doing that in this conversation. It's been so fun to get to know you. Um, is there anything that you want to promote?
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, good question. Uh, I'll I'd like to give a shout out to my my marine biologist friends that helped me with that question, if that's okay. Of course. Yeah, so I just want to say thank you to my friends Reagan, Amy, Dawson, David, uh, Stuart for helping me out answer that question about the zombies.
SPEAKER_00:You had you had a serious committee. You had a committee. You put you formed a committee to answer that question. And that's sure, yeah. That's impressive. And I gotta give you um like the five Zeds that I took away from Aquarium of the Dead.
SPEAKER_03:We could have a whole Aquarium of the Dead committee as a follow-up episode. If you you heard it here first, if you have more questions, I'm volunteering you, Jacob. If you have more you have no choice. This is not a volunteer function. If you have more zombie ocean questions, let us know. Maybe Jacob will want to answer them. We'll see. Or any of his amazing marine biology friends.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. If you want to know about his time in the marine biology. Hoorah. Um thanks. Thanks everybody for joining us uh for this long in-depth discussion about Aquarium of the Dead. Um if uh you could you could you could support us by leaving a rating or a review.
SPEAKER_03:Like Jacob did, a very nice one.
SPEAKER_00:Jacob did that. And uh that's that's why that's you know what now look where Jacob is talking to us about Aquarium of the Dead. Uh you could also send us a voicemail up to three minutes at 614-699-0006. You could tell us what you felt about Aquarium of the Dead, or how many Zeds you would have given it, and how wrong I am. Let me know. Uh, you could also sign up for our newsletter that I never send out. So you you'll know that you at least won't be having your inbox filled with spam from me. Your spam folder, occasionally, but not your inbox. That's that's the selling point of our newsletter. Um uh you could also follow us on Instagram at Zombiebook Club Podcast or join the Brain Munchers Collective Discord, where we watched this movie in a watch party. Jacob and his wife and a few other people too. Yeah. And we all bashed this movie the entire time. And that was the best. Maybe that's why they made the movie. Yep. It all makes sense now. I give it two more Zeds. All right. All links are down there in the description. Might sound crazy, but the end is not, baby. Don't die.
SPEAKER_03:Uh that was brilliant, gorgeous. I love it. Thank you so much.
