Zombie Book Club

Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse with special guest KQ Watson | Zombie Book Club Ep 109

• Zombie Book Club • Season 3 • Episode 109

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In this provocative and poignant episode, we sit down with author KQ Watson to explore her short story Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse. Far from your average survival tale, this narrative focuses on a wheelchair user who chooses to opt out of enduring a zombie-infested world—prompting a powerful and compassionate exploration of autonomy, dignity, and the underrepresented voices in apocalyptic fiction.

We dive into the ethics of medical aid in dying, ableist tropes in horror, and what it means to grant agency to those who refuse to “survive.” Amid the weighty themes, KQ shares unlikely passions—from The Dark Crystal’s eerie magic to satanic death metal for sober listeners—and reveals what writing about a fallen angel, cookie dough, and last meals say about confronting the end of everything.



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Speaker 1:

Hey Zombesties, a little content warning here before you dive into this episode. We are talking about wheelchair seating for the apocalypse with KQ Watson, the author of the short story, and it includes some really important discussions about autonomy and dignity in life and death, the representation of disabled people in apocalypse stories and some very fun dark crystal side quests, among other great conversations. However, we also talk very openly about the choice to end your life in a zombie apocalypse and the right to die with dignity, with medical support if you have a terminal illness here in the United States and in Canada. So this conversation includes some very dark and topical humor and some stuff that could just be not what you need right now and if that's the case, fully endorse you skipping this one. I would say, if you need to pick me up, I would go all the way back to the a hundred dollar Amazon challenge. You're what episode? That is Seven, something like that.

Speaker 1:

It's way back there so if you want something like retro and fun and that you need to pick me up, listen to that.

Speaker 1:

Don't listen to this. But if you're here to have a real conversation with us sort of virtually although please send us DMs if you want to share your thoughts about death in the apocalypse, this is the episode for you. And if you are someone who is in need of support right now in Canada, you can call or text 988, which is their suicide crisis helpline, which, conveniently, in the United States is the same number, 988. You can text or call, and I just learned that in the United Kingdom, you can call 111, also available 24 hours a day. We know we have listeners all over the world, and Dan even tried to look up the suicide hotline for Korea, because we have somebody from South Korea, at least one person listening to us pretty regularly, but unfortunately the language barrier defeated that effort. So if you are somebody elsewhere who is struggling, please find someone you trust to talk to and look and see if there are other supports for you, because we want you here. And with that, let's jump into the show.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a suicide note. I'm Dan, and when Leah and I aren't planning our end-of-life suicide pact, I'm only partly joking. This morning, Leah woke up and told me about a place that will bury us in the ground without a casket au naturel. That's how I woke up this morning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm actively saving up for our spots.

Speaker 2:

We're saving up for our funerals. That's the state of the world right now, but I'm not doing those things. I'm writing a book about a zombie outbreak and the choices people make in life, death and everything in between, which makes it sound way more thought-provoking than I think it probably is right now.

Speaker 1:

It'll get there, yeah, which makes it sound way more thought-provoking than I think it probably is right now. It'll get there, yeah, and I'm Leah, and today we are talking with KQ Watson, the author of the zombie apocalypse short story that will subvert all of your expectations Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse. Kq is the cyborg you don't take home to meet your parents. She looks innocuous and gentle, but there are oodles of satanic death metal songs continually playing in her head. I'll be asking you about those momentarily. Sometimes, when she's all alone, she thinks back to some of her favorite episodes of Intervention and the best scenes from the People Under the Stairs. She writes because what else is she going to do? Let's be real here. One-legged Canadian who likes the Dark Crystal more than she will ever like you. Oh shucks, okay, q. Uh, the characters in her head keep her sane. Welcome. So much to the show. We're really, really thrilled to have you here uh, thank you how are you doing today?

Speaker 3:

uh, I'm good. Um, personally, I want to be plastinated when I die. Uh, do you know what that is? No, please tell us um, have you ever seen those? Uh body works. Yes, things.

Speaker 1:

That's what that is. Can you explain it for listeners, in case they haven't seen it before?

Speaker 3:

and so basically, so, uh, body works are um, I want the word is not coming to me I want to say displays, but that's not it um, they're, they're just um. Oh, I'm so bad at this exhibit.

Speaker 1:

It's an exhibit. Is that the yes exhibit?

Speaker 3:

that's the word I was looking for. Thank you, I'm a writer. Um, there are exhibits that um are dead bodies that are preserved in like some like plasticky stuff, for so you can see how the body works and how it's all put together, and there's brains and like skin peeled back to reveal the muscle and stuff. But there's like some controversies with it, so I would like to do it ethically. So you would volunteer your body. I would probably do that, although I feel like, uh, you could probably get more out of whatever I am. Um for like science, rather than just a display, an exhibit, um, that's gonna be the word of the day now um but uh, also I would not mind being cremated and put in an hourglass oh, that's

Speaker 1:

a great idea yeah, I that is you could control time would it be weird to ask my mom if I can put her in an hourglass because she wants to be cremated?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I. I think this is a reasonable question to ask these are important questions.

Speaker 1:

We avoid dinner. You know we're eating dinner.

Speaker 3:

We're like you, gotta think about you. Gotta think about the future you do, it's inevitable um, I've I've heard of those types of displays.

Speaker 2:

Uh, somebody, somebody told me about one that was in korea where, um, like they had all these bodies and there's various things, like they had animals and humans and yeah, they had drawers and you could they had animals and humans. Yeah, they had drawers and you could pull the drawers out and see cross-sections of people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, when I went, there was one that was just the nervous system.

Speaker 2:

Oh I've seen pictures of that, yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's wild.

Speaker 1:

I don't want some people seeing my insides though it is, I am uncomfortable knowing I have insides, which is probably why I've never gone to that exhibit, but I've seen it. I don't want to be judged like that. I've seen it online, you don't want to be judged.

Speaker 2:

I don't want people looking at my liver and being like look at this liver.

Speaker 3:

We're all beautiful on the inside.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's. That's the quote of this episode. That would be a great zombie book actually. Yeah, like with the gore, I don't know. There's something there, kq, you could work with it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have some rapid fire questions, just the first thing that comes to the top of your head, just to kind of get uh things going. Um, all right, uh, so if you could only watch one of the following for the rest of your natural life, this isn't an apocalypse scenario, right uh?

Speaker 1:

as long as you got to be alive as long as you got to be alive.

Speaker 2:

Uh, which one are you going to pick, because you mentioned a few that you were, that you were into intervention the people under the stairs, the last of us, or the dark crystal?

Speaker 3:

oh, uh, well, I really do like the dark crystal, um, but the thing is, with intervention, there's dozens of episodes, well, more than dozens. There's like so many seasons, a dozen, dozen, a dozen, dozen, um, oh, but they are only 45 minutes each. Oh, wait, no, sometimes they're longer. Um, I think I probably have to go with the dark crystal because it's just like, um, it's, it's just, it's been a constant and I, I love it. I have a small collection of like dark crystal art books and and comics and stuff. It's, it's like my thing, it's one of my, one of the things that I just love.

Speaker 1:

So I think it's a worthy thing to love. I don't love dark crystal more than anybody else, but I do think it's a great movie. I'm assuming you're talking about the movie. How do you feel about the spinoff series?

Speaker 3:

I liked the series. I liked it. I was pleasantly surprised. My favorite character was not in the series and that made me sad. He is Skeksi, one of the villains, and he has he's missing an eye and he has a claw for a hand. So, being an amputee, I like I just resonate with him. He's like he's my guy but he wasn't in it. They mentioned him once but he wasn't in it. So I was like nine stars, not 10 stars, nine stars.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, lose one for losing one of your favorite characters. Is there anything zombie characters? Is there anything zombie? Is there anything zombie adjacent in the dark crystal? I'm trying to think yeah, in the series yes, I haven't watched the series. Tell us, tell us about the zombies in the dark spoilers, spoilers.

Speaker 3:

But uh, there is a character who's new to the series uh, I'm not gonna name names because I want to limit the spoilers. I want to let you watch it but, um, he dies and he is brought back through like sketchy magic and sort of, and it's really twisted and weird and, um, enjoyable. Uh, I, there was probably something else, but I can't think of it right now. Um, I would say that's kind of zombie-ish. If you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, it's zombie adjacent, zombie adjacent.

Speaker 1:

You're giving me an excuse to watch it because nowadays, with this podcast, all we watch and read. That's actually a lie. Because I'm watching big brother right now, which is absolute junk food. Anyways, give me an excuse to push it higher on the list because it's been there for a while yeah, my current junk food is 90 day fiance oh my we could talk about that, this whole episode. I know that this isn't the 90 day fiance episode, but I yes, I love that show so much.

Speaker 1:

Welcome welcome to the 90 day fiance episode. But I, yes, I love that show, so much welcome.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the 90 day, fiance club.

Speaker 1:

There's gotta be a way. I only just started.

Speaker 3:

I only started like two seasons ago, I guess, and I'm not watching this season, um, but I did watch uh last season. Okay, uh, I started with uh I can't even remember his name the deaf guy yes, he, he went to the philippines, I think or something. And then, uh, his girlfriend's mom tragically passed. That's the season I started watching okay, they're all good.

Speaker 1:

I actually started from the very beginning and worked my way up, and I think I watched all of the seasons up until last year's season in like a few months. It's kind of embarrassing, yeah, every time I was brushing my teeth. I'm watching 90 day fiance on my phone, literally um, this next question is kind of a throwback.

Speaker 2:

Uh, we haven't asked it in quite a while. So let's say it's the zombie apocalypse. Which do you prefer? You get to choose. Which do you prefer Fast or slow zombies?

Speaker 3:

Slow Okay, why Even I could outrun them?

Speaker 2:

That is usually the rationale.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but like I don't want to delve into other, I mean I assume you guys have read World War Z- yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And like they have that whole section about how just the slow zombies are relentless and they just never stop. So they, you know, like humans, get tired. So it's just like this never ending force, which is also scary, but slow, is just like traditional zombie and well, yeah, traditional zombie and I think it's. I mean, like werewolves and vampires and all that stuff. Those are fast. So giving zombies something slow and something that differentiates from other kind of monsters is kind of fun. So I prefer slow. And also, you're rotting, so you're not going to be very fast anyway.

Speaker 1:

Eventually you're going to decay. One would think yeah.

Speaker 2:

That is the one thing that we can count on in this world is we will eventually decay everyone decays that should be a t-shirt.

Speaker 1:

Um, unless you're plastinated, that's right. You found the opt-out button dan wanted to upload his consciousness into the internet and I was like, please don't it was a long time ago. It was a different internet when, we don't have kids when we're old. Let's just's just like have you watched? You've watched the Last of Us, right?

Speaker 3:

I watched the first season and I played the first game.

Speaker 1:

So you know episode three, what happens there, that's like the ideal for me in old age. Ideal outcome, but next, next, rapid fire question. This one is inspired specifically from something you mentioned in your story.

Speaker 3:

If, humans went extinct, what life form do you think would rise up in our stead? Well, according to my story, the answer is dandelions. But if we're talking about things with brains probably roaches I'm not very well versed on like yeah, they would. I, I, uh, I don't really uh, I'm not much of a scholar. So like I could be like totally wrong, like like I guess you could say mushrooms or you can say anything you want.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, if you're writing a story about a life form that was rising up in the wake of humanity, what would the life like? What life form would you hope rose up?

Speaker 3:

oh, um, well, okay. So I think it would be a very interesting new era for crows. Yes, yeah, yeah, why not?

Speaker 2:

or the sloth I love these answers. It's the era of the sloth capybaras are running wild. I mean, there's memes right now that are like the era of the sloth Cappy bearers are running wild.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's memes right now that are like I'm in my sloth era, so I think I'm going to be team crow on your two options.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah, I think crow makes more sense, like logically, but I think that sloths deserve their shot.

Speaker 2:

They do. They do They've been patiently waiting for their opportunity and this could deserve their shot. They do They've been patiently waiting for their opportunity and this could be their opportunity.

Speaker 1:

This makes me think. A brief comic rec for you, steve Urena. Somebody else we've interviewed has a comic series about monster sloths. I forget what the series is called.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, like killer sloths.

Speaker 1:

Killer sloths, hilarious.

Speaker 2:

Highly recommend Alright all right, like that up like, very like, uh, freddy, from um nightmare on elm street.

Speaker 1:

Versions of sloths yeah, so in that world maybe they are taking over. Yeah, all right. Last last rapid fire question if you could infect people with your current favorite band or song, what would it be?

Speaker 3:

Okay, so every time I talk about my favorite music, I feel like a snob. So you've probably never heard of this, that's fine. So, like you've probably never heard of this, that's fine. Yeah, so my favorite song ever written is called To Tame the Temporal Shrew, by a band called Richelieu, which I describe as if Tool did Pink Floyd. Oh, that sounds amazing. Yeah, also, I'm probably their only. Okay, adding that to the playlist. How do we spell that? Probably R-I-S-H-L-O-O.

Speaker 1:

R-I-S-H-L-O-O Okay.

Speaker 3:

I say I'm probably their only sober fan Because it's very psychedelic in my brain. I'm all for that, so that probably I'm also a big Will Wood fan.

Speaker 1:

Wood fan again, probably his only sober fan, um I love so is what you're telling us is not just satanic death metal, it's also like psychedelic um, I don't know how you. Yeah, for sober people.

Speaker 3:

I mean, like you don't have to be sober, I just choose to be. Yes, it's over optional but getting to the death metal, um. My favorite band in that regard is zeal and ardor, which are um a band about, but they, they, um took the idea of if um slaves, um adopted satanism instead of christianity hell yeah and it's really good kq, I am increasingly becoming a fan of you.

Speaker 1:

I gotta say this is like excellent, rex. Oh, thank you. I don't know if I could ever get into death metal, I'll be honest, but the concept, perfection, yeah yeah, no, it I it's also very melodic and stuff you should check it out.

Speaker 2:

You might be into it if it's melodic.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, we'll give it a try.

Speaker 2:

A lot of times when I'm playing music, if it comes on in the truck and Leah jumps in the truck after me a lot of times she's just like. This is beating my ears to death and I'm getting anxiety and I need to listen to something a lot slower.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've been using music mostly as a coping mechanism to calm my nerves for the last few years, but I will say the one time that I really appreciated Dan's music I think is more in line with your taste was on mushrooms. Um, we went through his whole playlist and I was like this is amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah we're going through like viking metal and like it was incredible a whole journey. Yeah, we listened to the uh, an entire album of um godspeed you, black emperor, which is like really oh yeah melodic and dark and sad and like when it started well, like we're on mushrooms and I'm like we should skip this. It's gonna be like a fucking journey and leah's like no, don't skip it okay, it was great. It was great, highly recommend listen to that on mushrooms.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're sober, but I think better on mushrooms let's get into your.

Speaker 3:

Unfortunately, I'm uh, I'm, you know, fair. I drank, so I'm not 100 sober yeah I.

Speaker 2:

I drank until it stopped affecting me. So now, now I'm bored of drinking and I need better drugs.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think I mean, maybe just some of us out there okay, me need a little psychedelic assistance, but maybe you're already there, kq, and so it's not as necessary. Yeah, but let's talk about wheelchair seating for the apocalypse. Okay, could you start us off by sharing a little bit about the apocalyptic world you created that we find ourselves in, and then we'll talk about the main character um, I feel like it's just your average apocalypse.

Speaker 3:

Um, like, I would say it's just on the outskirts of something like dawn of the dead or so like it's your traditional zombie uprising, uh, just from the point of view of someone who is on the outskirts of it. So, um, you know, technology has uh stopped working um recently. Uh, like you know, the fridge is still working, thankfully, but like for now, but like the infrastructures of like the internet and communications and stuff have stopped um, but yeah, it's. It's no um real, um inventive, uh zombie uprising.

Speaker 2:

I I just needed the um, you know, your tried and true zombie apocalypse I, you know, I appreciate that because, like I think a lot of times, you don't really need, you don't really need to reinvent the zombie apocalypse if, if what you're going for is the atmosphere and the the uh environmental hazard of the zombies, um yeah, like there's a template already available if you want to tell your story, and that's what I love about it sometimes it's like you just plug your characters in and it just works and like there, there really are three kinds of zombie templates.

Speaker 3:

There's the slow, the fast and the cordyceps yeah and uh, so yeah, I just went with. So I guess what I'm saying is like, uh, when the cordyceps came um, occasionally you can have like new zombie environments and that's always fun, but you know, old, reliable, slow zombies is always there and that's always fun, but you know, old, reliable, slow zombies is always there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I've always loved. I've been a purist for the zombie form for a long time, even though I appreciate some of the more creative looks at it, and I'm here for the stories, which is what I loved about your story.

Speaker 1:

It's, it's very much its own story. Yeah, so yeah, we're four weeks into the apocalypse about when we meet the main protagonist. Who am I correct that they don't. They're not named in the story, they're not named.

Speaker 3:

they're not named. One review I I received uh said they were not clear on the gender of the character. She is a female, she's a woman, but it doesn't really matter. You can pretty much superimpose whatever you want onto the main character. They're pretty much a cipher.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So tell us about this cipher that we can sort of step in for, as we're reading it, what's going on in their life four weeks into the apocalypse?

Speaker 3:

um, she who has no name is um in a wheelchair, and she is. She lives on her own in a apartment, um, and the zombie apocalypse is coming, um, you know, like a slow, creeping wave, and she decides she wants no part of it, and so she decides to um, self-terminate um, and so she makes a concoction, uh, of cookies, um, with like drugs inside them, but like, um, you know, with the purposes of oda, um, and that's her day, that's what she's gonna do with the rest of her life yeah, and so we follow through her, through almost to the end, and then I'm not gonna spoil what happens at the end if folks haven't read it yet.

Speaker 1:

But I said, this is a short, excellent read. Um, it's 12 pages. You're going to zoom through it and when you get to the end, come dm us, tell us what you think. Yeah, how?

Speaker 2:

to make you feel.

Speaker 1:

How to make you feel. Also, is the ending metaphorical or real? That's what I felt, like you left us with KQ, yeah, so I really appreciated that sort of suspenseful ending, even though one part of the ending was clear from the beginning what inspired you to write this story?

Speaker 3:

I was in a bad mood. I was in a bad mood, and when that happens I tend to write dark stuff, so I wrote that. I don't remember specifically what inspired it, but I just wrote it. I don't remember how long inspired it, but I just wrote it. I don't remember how long it took, not long and it exists now.

Speaker 2:

Is this the first zombie story that you've written?

Speaker 3:

I believe so. I might have dabbled with something, but I believe so.

Speaker 2:

I might have like dabbled with something, but I believe so, um, a large, large, uh majority of the of the zombie apocalypse genre. It focuses so much on the survivors, like the people who are uh who, who want to live at all costs, um, and sometimes, like, they touch on things like opting out and and uh and death, and they show some of those stories, usually by finding corpses in bedrooms with pills scattered around usually a side quest, like yeah, a side character makes that choice, like we don't know who those people are.

Speaker 2:

But, uh, I I think, I think that there that there's a lot that we're missing by not hearing those stories. And what do you think that we lose by not telling the stories of those people who decide to opt out?

Speaker 3:

well, um, like I can think of two um that were kind of portrayed in media which were, I mean, spoilers for the walking dead. Um, like the first season I think, of walking dead with um, what was her name? Beth? And she like wanted to do it and, uh, her, that was right.

Speaker 2:

It's been so long since I watched it yeah, well, andrea, it was kind of like a a battle between her sister, maggie, who was like no, beth needs to live, lock her in a room, keep her away from the razor blades, and then Andrea is just like you want to do it?

Speaker 1:

here's a knife well, didn't Andrea want to do it herself at one point? Yeah, and then she's the one who's helping with the governor, right? Am I remembering the right people? Yeah? Okay so it's been a while.

Speaker 2:

She found value in making her own choice to live Right.

Speaker 3:

Right. But I remember like wasn't there like with beth and andrea in like the first season and they were just talking to each other through a door and she was basically begging beth not to do it. Or am I just misremembering, which is totally possible?

Speaker 2:

um, andrea was like you make your choice? Uh, it was, it was season two, because that was on, uh, herschel farm, but her sister, maggie, was very much against the idea of her sister ending her life. Okay, I think our society treats suicide in this. I mean, I know our society treats suicide in this way, where they treat it like it's not your choice. Um, yeah, you, you're, you're, you're, it's this wanting to die thing is a phase and if we just get you through that, then you'll see that really living is better. But, um, I mean, I think what your story portrays so clearly is that sometimes, uh, there's, there's, sometimes there's no reason to suffer like that.

Speaker 3:

Right, yep, pretty much yeah.

Speaker 1:

I have a question, if I can jump in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, please do, my brain just restarted.

Speaker 1:

I watched it happen in real time because we're sitting across from each other. When we were talking back and forth a few months ago, you did mention that your family was talking around the dinner table and saying like this is what I'm going to do in a zombie apocalypse. Do you remember that right? Yep, um, and so was that a moment that partly inspired this story for you, that reaction um, yeah, uh, yeah, like I um had.

Speaker 3:

Well, why do you, kind of tongue in cheek, say, like this story is based on actual events, which is true? A family member so some members of my family are really into zombie media, right? So occasionally we will have zombie conversations, like said family member just watched 28 Years Later, I have not seen a single 28 movie but he did and he's like, yeah, it was good, but anyway. So we were talking about zombies and we were talking about what we would do in the zombie apocalypse and, uh, my answer is like shoot myself in the head even if I don't have a gun, you know, just like self-terminate. Uh, I don't want any part of that. Um, like, uh it. Um, how do I say this? There are some things that I just inherently fear, and zombie apocalypse is one of them. Nuclear Armageddon is another one. I'm not a fan of that either. Yeah, yeah, I know, and you know possible, right. And then, like robot uprising, like AI is freaking me out now. Yeah, it is scary.

Speaker 2:

It sounds silly to talk about the robot uprising, but it is literally like the most realistic apocalypse that we're facing I don't know climate change you could get into it.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of there's a lot of bad shit.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah so so like luckily, zombies is 90, you know fiction 90 I love this.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 10 possibility well, yeah, but I mean, like you know, voodoo zombies are a real thing, yeah, and bath salts people eating people is a real thing. So, yeah, but so I know other members of my family share my logic, yeah, but so yes, I said that I didn't want to be here in the case of zombies and said family member was like really, not even for like a few days, just to, like, you know, loot and shoot. And I was like, no, that's not my, that's not my jam.

Speaker 2:

Well, you don't want to go? Uh, rob people and steal shit.

Speaker 1:

I have something I feel compelled to tell you, to tell your family member, which is that studies have shown that in times of crisis, people actually basically just become socialist animals and help each other out. That's more likely to occur than the loot and shoot. I'm so sorry for them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. So like, like Mr Rogers said, like look for the helpers.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. That's a good point Survival of the friendliest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you're kind of on to something when it comes to that frustration that you have with your family, because a lot of people love to dream about like what would you do in this scenario? And I think a lot of times people are a little bit delusional. Yeah, you know, leah two years ago would have said the second we see a zombie, I'm out. But now is feeling a little bit more confident about our abilities.

Speaker 1:

After two solid years of studying the zombie phenomenon and how to survive, and the fact that we have an actual kind of bunker basement with six very large five-gallon containers of rice and beans, yeah, I feel more prepared.

Speaker 2:

But I'm delusional though, because like and I and I was thinking about this earlier after, after, uh, reading your story is that like your story, uh, is it makes this really good point of like you don't. You don't fear death, but you fear pain.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like being ripped apart by zombies, like the choke on them scene in what is it? The Living Dead? I know it's referenced in something else, but when the guy's being ripped apart and he's like floating around oh, day of the Dead.

Speaker 2:

I think, yeah, it's Day of the Dead, I think so. I think I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3:

I actually know it from a show called Dead Set. What's that? Have you ever seen that? No, I think it's the UK. It was a show. Actually, you'll like this. It's a show about a reality show like Big Brother, but a zombie apocalypse happens. Yeah, I think so like if you can find it, you would love it.

Speaker 1:

It does sound like literally the perfect mashup. Okay, I think they made like a.

Speaker 2:

Brazilian version of it as well, and I've seen that out there on Netflix or somewhere.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we'll check it out. Dead set. But going back to-.

Speaker 3:

It's like from the early 2000s, so it's kind of old but, it's really good.

Speaker 2:

Going back to my delusion. I'm a veteran. I'm diagnosed with PTSD my whole life. I feel like I've been clinging onto life by my fingernails Up until now, which is great because I am with Leah and things are going great.

Speaker 3:

Yay, successful podcast. People that love you.

Speaker 2:

You know reasons to live and like reading your story. It's like you. There. There's there's the separation between certain people that are like you're realistic about this. You're like you're not going to survive. It's going to be painful. Um, I just haven't realized. At what point do I just stop clawing my way back into life, Like when I get reached the end of my life? Am I still going to be clawing to life despite being like my whole body is falling apart? I'm 87 years old. I haven't even paid off my funeral plot where Leah is.

Speaker 1:

I love how I die first in this scenario. What happened to our death pact?

Speaker 2:

I didn't follow through with it because I was clinging on to life.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, so you pretended you were going to go with me In spite of everything. Kq, this is a betrayal.

Speaker 2:

I got to pay off the plot.

Speaker 1:

I'm still working.

Speaker 3:

At 87. Sounds like the future betrayal. I gotta pay off the plot.

Speaker 2:

I'm still working at 87 sounds like but. But. But do you really have to, because you'll be dead? So you don't right. Exactly that's my point.

Speaker 1:

I'm delusional, I'm like I gotta pay off that funeral plot and you're saying I won't care because I'll be dead. But what if I do care, kq? What if there's some part of me that knows? I know, I know that's the trick of it, isn't it? Well, that was what your, your protagonist, talks about. Like not only that, they're, they're afraid of pain, and so they make the choice to end their life. But then they have to contemplate, and they claim at first they're not afraid of it, but they have to contemplate that they might become a zombie when they die and they could still be sentient, and that was also scary to them. What does that represent for you? I?

Speaker 3:

I mean, if you want to get metaphorical with it, like you know, we don't know if there's a heaven. We don't know what happens after we die. Uh, so, like you know, like, like what if south park is right and mormonism is the one religion?

Speaker 1:

you know what I mean. Like that, I'm okay because I was baptized mormon.

Speaker 3:

I'm not mormon now I feel relief when you say I'm agnostic so I, I'm not mormon I just was baptized.

Speaker 2:

If you bat, if you baptize once and then you leave, you're still, you're still in.

Speaker 1:

You can be. You can be excommunicated like anything, I think like any other religion, but I know that but if you dip out before they excommunicate you, then god doesn't know. I'm pretty sure that I'm still on their list. And also they they baptize dead people, not literal bodies, but metaphorically. Oh. So if that happened, kq, you might be okay, because they've gone back and baptized you post, post, post-mortem, yeah, posthumously.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, both words yeah um but yeah, I think the anxiety, like the that fear of what's gonna happen next, is very real. Because even as I was contemplating the natural death um, or not natural death, all death is natural. The natural burial that we found, where they let they basically have like a plot of forest and they put you in the ground and they have a small marker so they know where somebody is and they just let it do what it does, I'm still like am I going to feel, is some part of me going to be in there, sentient, experiencing the ground consuming me?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you're like get off me worms, yeah, gross. Or are you trapped in the last as your brain starts to die? Are you trapped in like the last as your brain starts to die? Are you trapped in that last moment of life for the rest of eternity? Uh feeling, whatever you felt in the last moment um uh, yeah, we don't know what happens.

Speaker 3:

Uh, anyone who says they do know is probably fibbing yeah yeah, or snake oil salesman type thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, I'll buy some snake oil.

Speaker 3:

I recently learned that snake oil was not originally bad. Oh, was it actually snake oil? It was like yes, and then they started like diluting it with other things to make it really not work.

Speaker 1:

Was it like the fat from a snake?

Speaker 3:

I don't remember. I listened to the podcast a while ago it was.

Speaker 1:

How dare you not be an encyclopedia available for me right now? Right, if you want to know something about the dark crystal. I, I'm your girl, but um, I'm curious if there's a circumstance where you think your character would have chosen life amidst the zombie apocalypse, like, what conditions would have made that feel viable for them?

Speaker 3:

or would it just have been like no, I'm just, I'm not here for this uh, possibly being more able-bodied, um money, um, yeah, like, if you can uh buy safety, like you know, a yacht or something that they, the zombies, can't get to, um and like also like good health care, like um, but also like uh. So, uh, confession, uh, which I've actually said a few times, the the new dawn of the dead, uh, the one like not new um yeah yeah, that one.

Speaker 3:

Um, I have never gotten past the intro to that movie because it puts me out so bad. Um, there's something about the opening to that movie, um, that just it doesn't scare me, but it makes me physically ill, wow, so I can't. I, I can't watch it. So like I like, how far in do you get? Uh, right, there's something about the fear that everybody goes through in the opening and the scene where, uh, the ambulance crashes yeah um, and like being a unhealthy person.

Speaker 3:

Uh, I like to think I'm level-headed and actually trust like big pharma. Um, I, I don't like negative stuff about that. So like seeing a symbol of health care uh destroy something else like really gets to me. So I can't get into that movie. I just and it's my aforementioned family members like favorite zombie movie. So he's always like you've never seen it, like I can't, and he's like it scares her. It's like it doesn't scare me, it makes me feel gross. There's a difference.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it gets, it gets worse.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I imagine so, so I just I watched it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean that's it for the ambulances and healthcare, but it's very effective. There's a lot more upsetting stuff that happens in that movie. Yeah, like baby eating.

Speaker 3:

That's fine, but an ambulance gets us back Baby eating fine Ambulance bad.

Speaker 2:

That's where we draw the line.

Speaker 1:

We all have our own things. Like I really hate cancer storylines because of my own personal family experience with that. Like it's not that, it's not a story that should be told. It's just like if I see it I'm like you know what? Nope, yeah, lost somebody to cancer. Don't really want to relive that in a fictional sense, so that'll end it for me too. So I get it. There's just.

Speaker 2:

I think everybody has that individual reaction based on their experience yeah, I I have a thing about like war movies where, like the whole focus of it is like rah-rah, go america. Uh, yes, has a very similar effect, where, like I, I wouldn't even try to watch movies like the hurt locker or, uh, lone survivor, american sniper, black hawk down yeah jarhead black.

Speaker 2:

Well, I've I watched black hawk down before I joined the army so I guess that's right timing and part of me still loves that movie for some reason, even though there's a lot of questionable things in it what about saving private ryan? Same. I watched that before before I went in and, like I have, I have fond memories of it, and also it's world war two, so it feels different.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I can see that, whereas like if you'd put my great uncle who he they didn't call it PTSD back then, but he was basically there like and make, made him watch that that would have been, I'm sure, very traumatizing for him. Yeah Right, so yeah, it all comes back down to experience. Another thing that I thought was interesting about your protagonist and, by the way, I like that they don't have a name because of that self-insert that it allows you to do yeah Is that this also really resonated for me their family's far away. I'm Canadian. I don't know if you know that, but I live in the united states yeah, I've been here for 15 years.

Speaker 1:

I grew up in ontario, the less cool province, because I'm pretty sure you're at west right, I'm in bc. Yeah, you're in the cool province. I'm in the less cool pro, I'm from the less cool province. Gonna admit it now sorry family to hate yes, everybody hates toronto. I'm not from toronto, anyways. Now you're just I'm leaning into canadian territory jokes. What was I saying?

Speaker 2:

Something about Canada, my family's far away.

Speaker 1:

They're in Canada. Most of my friends are on the internet because I've moved a lot, so even people who were physically close to me at one point are not, and I'm curious how you feel digital connections in this modern age both help and hinder people who are facing challenges like your protagonist.

Speaker 3:

Well, we're talking, aren't we? Yeah, it led people who are facing challenges like your protagonist. Well, we're talking, aren't we Like? Yeah, let us meet.

Speaker 3:

So, and also like, during during COVID. Like, I am part of a writing group and we used to meet in person and with my health issues, I joined the writing group to get in the house, basically, and then COVID happened and so we started meeting on Zoom, and that was the last time I used Zoom, but so, like, we were able to continue our writing group and we still do to this day online, and I've moved since, so I can still keep in contact with them. So in my story, I make it a point that the internet is down, or at least for the protagonist. I don't know if it's like down for everybody or if it's just like her building just lost access to it, but she has no internet access in the story, because I needed to um, um, segregate her, I needed to make her a lone creature, and I think that infrastructures yes, like that will go down in the case of zombies or nuclear annihilation or robots.

Speaker 1:

The robots will want to keep us connected, so they can spy on us are they just going to put us in the matrix and let them power there?

Speaker 2:

and in the matrix you'll still have cell phones and cool sunglasses. Um, it's true, that's. That's one thing that I I kind of uh thought about, as well as the. You know like technology is a double-edged sword when it comes to your social connections.

Speaker 2:

While it can connect you to a great number of people who can become your community yeah, yeah, it can it can also segregate you from a community that can help you in an emergency, that are nearby, in your building or down the road. And I wonder, if your protagonist had community within the building assuming they're still alive and had help, would they have made a different choice?

Speaker 3:

Good question? Possibly, I don't know. I don't think so, because I did make a point to say that in this environment she would not have access to things that she needs to survive on a daily basis. Situation, um, I don't want to spoil it for anybody, uh, but she does have needs, um, for her health issues that would not be accessible anymore. Yeah, this situation. So, uh, there's also the question of like living with dignity, you know yeah what does that mean?

Speaker 3:

to you living with dignity uh, well, you know, like being able to uh it's okay, you can take your time.

Speaker 1:

Is that? I just dropped a big question that I don't know how I'd answer?

Speaker 3:

yeah, um, you know, like being treated like a human and not, um, as a burden or infantile, infantilized, or you know um, carted around because like like currently I am not in a wheelchair, but I have been in a wheelchair for health, uh situations before, and like people do treat you different. And then, like, people treat me different anyway because of my like, outwardly I'm a very private person, but outwardly you can tell there's something wrong with me. Um, and like like I don't, I, I bet you guys don't have you know faith healers offering to heal you through jesus you know you have people doing that to you kq.

Speaker 3:

It's happened once or twice. Um, I think I vote Satan.

Speaker 1:

Okay, this is an example of why the internet is great, because you and I have. I also did a very similar thing, more of like a pagan witch thing, when I was getting accosted at the door constantly when I lived. We lived in Georgia and there was two little old ladies from the church that were constantly coming in harassing us and finally I was like, look, I'm saved'm saved by the opposite of who you think I am.

Speaker 3:

In this house we worship Satan.

Speaker 2:

And that's where the satanic death metal comes in, because that really sells the story. When you open up the door and it's just like double bass drums pounding in the apartment behind you and flashing strobe lights, yeah, I mean, like I have.

Speaker 3:

I have an altar on my dresser that has, like anubis and baphomet on it. Amazing, yeah, because that's just how I roll.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's, and you know, faith healers are a great example of how people try to take control of people's autonomy and their well-being. There's also just those people that think that they know how to fix you. So they're like I read this article where if you just drink cranberry juice, it'll fix all your problems.

Speaker 1:

Oh, the unsolicited health advice.

Speaker 3:

Cranberry juice is going to make me grow my leg back. Yes. If you try putting olive oil, all your problems. Oh, the unsolicited health advice. This is going to make me grow my leg back, yes.

Speaker 2:

If you try putting olive oil under your tongue.

Speaker 1:

If you take this thing, it'll replicate the DNA within a lizard and it's like growing their tail back. It'll be fine.

Speaker 2:

Magnesium soaking, but I don't have a tail. You'll have one after.

Speaker 1:

This is reminding me of one of my most cherished hate memories, um, for, like I don't share I guess cherishes it but it's like one of those things where I feel like it was a really good lesson in first of all, like who I let into my life and also, um, how I think about things like faith, healers and stuff like that, which is like there's a space for that. If you want to do that kind of stuff, cool. But when, when somebody takes on the role of like I'm going to save you or it's my job to save you and you're not doing a good enough job yourself, that's a big no for me. So, basically, a friend of mine who passed away um, I've had a lot of cancer in my life.

Speaker 1:

It's actually a different cancer story but a close friend of mine died from cancer and before he died, um, at that point they knew he only had a little bit of time left and at that point they'd exhausted all the options. And this guy was a hippie dippy. Okay, he'd done all of the things. He was taking his turmeric with um black pepper every day, he had all kinds of concoctions and teas and herbal things and he'd seen different healers, whatever he had his uh, his uh, mushroom tinctures yeah, all the stuff, and he did the conventional stuff and the reality was like you're stage four cancer, that's that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and um, I was having this um fall equinox gathering where we were making um husk dolls because that's what I do for fun, and I invited his wife over and another friend of mine who was into that kind of shit. But unfortunately, what I learned about her was that she was also into drunkenly yelling at people for not doing enough to save their husband and that if she just did the X, y and Z unhinged woo-woo thing, that my very good friend Tom would be healed and I had to kick her out of my house and that was the end of that friendship. Yeah, that happens. Yeah, yeah, roll the story. Please don't give medical unsolicited advice or assume that you know what people have tried.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, usually the best expert about what somebody's going through is the person going through it. They know what they've tried. Yeah, they know what's worked and what hasn't worked. And if they're still trying, everything that they tried probably hasn't worked.

Speaker 1:

And like the main character in your story, they have the right to make a choice, so they can also just be like I don't want to do that I don't need to explain to you why I don't want to do that. You mentioned in our email back and forth that you are pro die with dignity laws, which tracks. Given the story that you told, could you tell us a little bit about what that is for any listeners who have maybe never heard of it before?

Speaker 3:

Well, so, since saying that, I've learned that they're a little more controversial than I first, but I ultimately still am pro. So it's basically usually in an ideal world it would be. You know, you are in a terminal health situation, so like cancer or something, and you go somewhere to take some medicine that will end your life. Um and uh. Unfortunately, it is seeing some not great implementations or the threat of that, which I don't love like, so like people are. There have been allegedly cases of people saying that they're being pushed to make this choice when they don't want to, or for psychological reasons as opposed to cancerous ones, which, if that's true, that is bad. Let's not do that. But everyone should have the choice available to them to do it should they want, but if they don't want to, not the most forthcoming or non-biased yeah yeah Sources. So I don't, you know, or it happened to like one person. If it's true, let's not do that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and like they're like this happens all every time. But even if it happened to one, person.

Speaker 1:

It's usually a lesson that something about the policy and the way it's implemented could be improved.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think we're imperfect humans and where we make up like these are laws that we've just made. People made them up because they were trying to make good laws and then it's not always going to be perfect in implementation and there's got to be constant revision for that reason. So I appreciate your sharing that that has been something that you've read, but also acknowledging that it could be from a biased source, Because I think the basic premise of being able to make that choice is an important one, and because of you I went up and looked it up for Vermont, and Vermont does have an end of. I didn't write down what it was called, but basically their thing is individuals with a terminal disease have the option to be prescribed a dose of medication to hasten the end of life, and this often requires the participation of a Vermont physician, and that honestly gave me relief.

Speaker 3:

Living in Vermont, I was like, okay, because there are certain circumstances, yeah, yeah, there's a documentary called how to Die in Oregon which follows three people who are pursuing this and uh like, for their own end of life care. And there's another documentary I can't remember what it's called, but it's about um, the author, terry pratchett, and he um, he knew he was ill so he's investigating, like it, as an option. So, um, this was before he passed um, and they're both very good documentaries and they're compassionate and I recommend them you're full of really good recs.

Speaker 1:

I need to write these ones down too. I will. I do want to say something about the psychological piece here, and I want to. Before I say it, I want to preface I'm not a doctor, I'm not an expert, um, and I want to propose that there may be circumstances where if someone is suffering from pretty severe psychological illness that, regardless of all the possible routes of healing they've tried, it's not going to end.

Speaker 1:

I also think that that, maybe, is a a right to make that, that choice. I think it's really hard to know where that boundary is with psychological, mental health challenges, but I do think that there's got to be a way to do that too. And I say that from just witnessing some people go through things where I don't want them to not be here, but I have had the thought where I've understood if they ever made that choice, I would accept that that was the right choice for them. Yeah Well, I'm going to completely change the vibe of this, just to lighten the mood for a moment, because if you're going to end your life, let's end it in the best possible way, which this person does. They use cookie dough and ice cream.

Speaker 3:

Why did you choose that for their last meal uh, it seemed like something they would have on hand and tasty yeah, and like also. Uh, she manages to kind of, you know, spoonful of sugar, right. So, like she, she hides the pills in the cookie dough. So is it a chocolate chip or is it a pill, who knows?

Speaker 1:

don't bite into them. Yeah, that made me laugh. Don't bite um.

Speaker 3:

But so, uh, yeah, uh, I have friends who have tried to, um, you know, uh, self-terminate um by swallowing pills and it did not work. And, um, they end up with a certain kind of knowledge of, like, well, I took a whole bottle and I'm still here, right. So, like you get, like this, this weird anxiety about, like, if it's too much, if it's not enough, and stuff like that. So I, so I think the main character tried to, like, you know, um, avoid that by just, you know, going overkill but also hiding the amount um, which this sounds bad and maybe we should all cut this because it kind of sounds like a how-to um, yeah, I was just thinking that too.

Speaker 1:

What I just said, which is, I felt like it should have been ended with and if you're having a mental health crisis, please go find help. We want you to be here.

Speaker 3:

Yes, we do want you to be here. Don't do it. The worst thing you could do is screw it up and end up worse than what you're trying to get away from. Yeah so don't do it, there are other alternatives. Uh, I'm not going to sugarcoat things with. Like you know, they're all temporary problems no, they're not yeah, but but let's try to stick around okay, yeah, find the.

Speaker 1:

Find the things that are joyful in your life and find the people around you who can help. Um, yeah, like, who knows?

Speaker 3:

Like tomorrow you might see your favorite movie you've ever seen, right, yep. Or you might see a really nice sunset, or, you know, in a few months, I believe, a solar eclipse is coming. That'll be neat.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think those are the small things that'll keep you going. There's been times in my life where there was actually a song. You might know the band Metric as a Canadian KQ my favorite band, oh nice. Probably not as cool as your bands, but I still love Emily Haynes and she's a song called no Lights on the Horizon, and that's how it felt in my life for a really long time and the thing that kept me going was the small things and the people who checked on me. That was what made me choose to stay here and honestly, listening to her song and crying a lot and being like Emily Haynes gets it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

There are always people in the wake of a decision like that and it's complicated to rationalize. I mean, you should have the right to self-terminate if you think that's the right thing to do, especially in this situation. Her too like what if? What if this person's uh family survived and then said wow, she is alone in her apartment in a wheelchair, we need to go save her. And now they're putting themselves at risk to to uh go through some pretty bad uh zombie infested territory to try to save this person, only to find out when they get there that they'd opted out.

Speaker 1:

This is why it's important to have the zombie apocalypse. What would you do? Conversations around the dinner table.

Speaker 3:

That's right, yes, but then the family finds that she's done this. And then she's that one character who we never see the story of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, like we mentioned earlier, yeah, yeah. You see the cookie dough, you see the apartment, the wheelchair and the rotting corpse.

Speaker 1:

Yep, that's the zombie apocalypse. Yeah yeah, you mentioned that the protagonist is listening to something on their MP3 player, but you don't tell us what it is. We know it's satanic death metal. I don't know if you actually use that term in the story I said.

Speaker 3:

it's loud and angry and Latin.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what do you imagine they were listening to?

Speaker 3:

I don't know, I don't know, I just sort of threw things out there. I tried to give the character her own quirks while also letting people sort of just superimpose what they wanted to on it. I wrote this before I discovered Zeal and Artwork, but also I tried to, like I say MP3 player. I don't say like you know iphone, right, yeah, like I, I try to keep everything as generic as possible. Um, so it was more universal to like everybody. Um so insert loud metal band here, basically, um, yeah, I mean like if it were me, I would probably be listening to uh, I would probably be listening to death clock.

Speaker 2:

Um, okay, you know death clock yeah, um, it's a quote-unquote fictional band from a cartoon uh show from uh adultim called Metalocalypse, oh, and it's hilarious. But also they do actually write really amazing, like super heavy music, their music is actually really good. They have songs like Mermaid-er, which is about mermaid murder.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that sounds fun.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, murder trying to come in.

Speaker 3:

My personal like, like pump-up song is the gears by okay, um so like I would probably have that on repeat. Like if I had to do um, like, like if I had to go get. I'm such a weenie if I had to go to the doctor and get like blood drawn. I would like listen to that well, now I?

Speaker 2:

now I want to listen to uh thunder horse yeah, thunder horse was.

Speaker 3:

I feel like it was like the first song in our show notes.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna have to be like rex by kq watson, like music and show recommendations writing I'm literally live writing this. I don't forget, yeah, because I've had. I had them all over the place in our notes here.

Speaker 2:

I think you need your own podcast where you just recommend things.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would only have like five things to recommend over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 1:

Is there a podcast with a dark crystal?

Speaker 3:

There is, I don't listen to it when I listen to it. See, the problem with the dark crystal is, even with the new show, uh, which is like four years, five years old now, six years old. It was pre-covid. So um, uh, there's only like so much you can talk about because there's so much, there's, it's so such a limited thing, like there's books and there's comics and stuff like that, um, but uh, the original show or the original movie is from really early 80s. So you can, there's only so much you can talk about. And then the new stuff again, it's like six years old at this point, so it's kind of been calmed over already. And then there's art and the comics and and thing and the novels and everything contradicts, so it's kind of frustrating.

Speaker 2:

It didn't all come from one source. No, it did not. They got their own stories going on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, Like the finale of the series. It contradicts the movie. So it's like what then?

Speaker 1:

like we never go to second season, so that's sad because they would have put the movie better and yeah you know, what I'm realizing is because you haven't watched the 28 franchise. I would really love your hot take on 28 years later because you're gonna go in without expectations and the biggest problem with that movie is people went in with expectations and it was very, in our little community, kq, very controversial. People had big feelings about this most recent movie and I'd love to know like an unbiased land, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, maybe, maybe this Halloween I'll watch all three of them.

Speaker 2:

There's no ambulances.

Speaker 3:

Well, that's good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I would avoid 28 days later the first one, because that starts in a hospital yeah, I well yeah, but so does the walking dead, that's true, it's the same exact thing, they're the same right.

Speaker 3:

They start in the same exact place right, yeah, um, yeah, I'll give a shot. Um, also for the longest time.

Speaker 1:

For some reason, I didn't really like um killian murphy, it's, it's with a k, like it is our one irish man will be really grateful that you knew how to say their name properly, because I butchered it on their interview um, I don't know why I didn't like him.

Speaker 3:

I just like there was something about him that like just bugged me. Yeah, he's growing on me now. It's his face, it's fine, it's fine his face is polarizing. Yeah, that's mean that's mean. Let's not say that it's true though he has this face.

Speaker 2:

But you're like like what? Why? Why are you looking at me like that?

Speaker 1:

daniel, I don't know. I have another friend who literally actively I won't name their name, but they actively fantasize about Killian Murphy on the regular and tell me all about their dreams of Killian. So just shows you that everybody has their different yucks and yums out there totally.

Speaker 3:

I mean, he was really good in Sunshine. Sunshine's a good movie.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I've watched that or not, but, unlike you and Dan, I don't remember things well. From things like I can love something and then forget a good movie. I don't know if I've watched that or not, but I, but unlike you and dan, I don't remember things well. From things like I can love something and then forget it. I'll be like how I know I love that book, but how did it end? Again, that's my brain, yeah, um.

Speaker 1:

So we mentioned earlier that we have an episode that talks about disability and representation of people with disabilities. Uh, in the zombie apocalypse, which it the short, long don't listen version of that episode was not a lot. In fact, our episodes when we do reviews, we often talk about representation of genders beyond cis male, whether there is racial diversity, whether there's any kind of queer diversity present or folks who have disabilities. And when I went back and did the math of how many people things we had watched actually had anybody with a disability in it, it had the lowest score of everything. And I'm curious if there was like one trope in horror that you wish could be just thrown into the bin and die with, about disabled characters or not having disabled characters, like what would that be?

Speaker 3:

I think this is relatively new, but or is it? This is hard to answer because I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but, like the autistic savant, like me.

Speaker 1:

Dan actually is autistic, but you're not a savant, so anyways. Well, thank you.

Speaker 3:

I haven't watched not the most recent that's coming out, but one of the older new Predator movies. Has like a kid who figures out how to hack Predator tech because he's autistic.

Speaker 2:

I definitely haven't seen this one that's dumb.

Speaker 3:

Let's not do that. That's stupid.

Speaker 2:

Don't do that yeah, he looks at all the alien glyphs and they're like I understand this programming language instantly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, yeah, I think that then again, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 3:

that might not be fair because, like, I haven't actually watched the movie and you shouldn't critique something unless you've seen it, but that was one of the reasons I didn't watch the movie, because that sounds dumb yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think it can be overplayed and I do think it fits into the trope of like superpower disabled people. Yeah, like I'm disabled, but also and I do jokingly because I have ADHD, I do jokingly call my hyper-focus my superpower, because sometimes it is, but it is one of those things that's like it's not a realistic depiction of most disabled people's experience that they're walking around or not walking around, wheeling around, being transported and also have some magical superpower yeah right like uh, you know most autistic people aren't going to roll into las vegas and be able to count cards and win millions of dollars.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, can you Dan?

Speaker 2:

I cannot.

Speaker 1:

I can't count anything. Yeah, you could recite the beginning of the Walking Dead from end till finish. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2:

When I pour nuggies into a tray to bake them, I look at them and I guess how many there are, and then I just go with it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's not your skill, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Totally makes sense and it's a very low number. It's like 14.

Speaker 1:

So I think we would be remiss not to ask you before we finish up which I'm sad that we're coming to the end of our time together but I am curious. I know that this is just one thing you've written.

Speaker 3:

What else is out there and how can people find your work? I have another short novella, I guess it's how long is it? It's about 10,000 words, I guess called An X of Y and Zed. I'm Canadian, so it's Zed. I appreciate that so much.

Speaker 3:

It's a post-apocalypse about. I guess it's about classism. Sure, I'm bad at themes. I always say I'm bad at themes. It's about some people on the outside and there's the perfect city on the inside and the people are divided by the kind of masks they wear and the main character wants to get on the inside because someone from the inside took something that belonged to him, uh, so he wants it back. Uh, it was a. It was my covid writing. It was my COVID writing. It was like we all have a COVID story now and this one is mine, and so I wrote it during lockdown, although the idea was banging around in my head before that, and it was a experiment in not using dialogue, so there's very little dialogue in it. And also it is inspired by the movie threats. I haven't seen that either, which is it's a. It's a early, early 80s, late 70s, uh, movie about a nuclear apocalypse, oh, um, which is apparently being remade, which, uh, by the people who did adolescence. Oh, um that, that show that just came out, oh, yeah adolescence.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to that. That, uh should be terrifying, um, but threads is like one of the scariest movies you will ever see, because it's very, very realistic, realistic.

Speaker 1:

Adding to the Book Wreck or not Book Wreck, it's the movie next to it.

Speaker 2:

I haven't heard of that but I'll never forget a made-for-TV movie around the 80s that was about a nuclear apocalypse called I think it was just called the Day After.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the Day After that one has Steve Guttenberg, I think, I think.

Speaker 1:

This that one has Steve Guttenberg, I think. I think this is not in Dan's lexicon. I can see his face being like I don't know.

Speaker 3:

That's it the guy from Short Circuit. Oh baby, but Threads is free on YouTube.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, it's easy to find. We could do a movie night and watch it.

Speaker 3:

We could branch out of the zombie apocalypse genre just for a night and watch a nuclear we're gonna get canceled, I know and then, and then, and then you throw up and cry oh okay, I mean, that does feel real.

Speaker 1:

Considering the state of our world.

Speaker 2:

I feel like it's not a fun movie yeah, it's also like.

Speaker 1:

Have you watched the movie civil war? No, also, it's so real like the plot itself. The the human plot I will personally feel is predictable as fuck, but the the depiction of what a civil war in the united states would look like and feel like felt I was like this is nope too real yeah, it's pretty too real.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the way things are going right now, it's like oh boy yeah, this is why we bury ourselves in the zombie apocalypse world.

Speaker 1:

So it sounds like you. You are solidly in the apocalyptic realm of your writing folks. I'm sure we'll really look forward to that. Where can they find you on the internet?

Speaker 3:

They can find me at kqwatsoncardco. That's C-A-R-R-D. Yes, sure, or you can find me on Blue Sky under KQ Watson TikTok under KQ Watson. There might be an underscore in there somewhere. Yeah, I also have a novel, a full-length novel, that just came out on paperback, like two weeks ago. Congratulations. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1:

It's self-published so it's like you know congratulations, but like oh, we love indie authors here, you should congratulate yourself.

Speaker 3:

That's a huge win okay, um, it's about a. I don't want to use the word angel, but it's about a fallen angel who falls to a dystopia.

Speaker 3:

I have a brand I love it and he just has to sort of find his place in a broken world and it has one of my favorite characters that I've ever made and he is also an amputee, and also the main character is an amputee because he lost his way. That's true, that sounds great and it is dark. It is. I think it's funny, but you know, taste is subjective.

Speaker 2:

Well, you have dark humor, so I do.

Speaker 3:

It does have a dead baby joke in the first second chapter.

Speaker 1:

I know exactly who I'm going to recommend this to. I won't say their name, so yeah, I know somebody who will love a dead baby joke pretty much instantaneously.

Speaker 3:

Um, maybe just make the world go round? Um, yeah, so uh, basically just search kiki watson and you'll find me eventually yeah, all the links will be in the description yeah, and we'll tag them on instagram, where we post our stuff.

Speaker 1:

Um, okay, I have one last, possibly controversial question, but I promise our feelings won't be hurt with whatever you say. You said you like the dark crystal more than anyone else. Have we convinced you otherwise?

Speaker 2:

no, I thought that would be the answer. You know when, when I read, when I read that I was like what if? What if she doesn't like the Dark Crystal at all?

Speaker 1:

It's like a big burn.

Speaker 2:

I do. It's like how much do you like the Dark Crystal? Not much.

Speaker 1:

You heard it here first, the Club podcast. Not as great as the Dark Crystal. I actually kind of agree with that. It's a high bar it is, I can't say, that we have the production value and lore of the dark crystal. No zero marionettes, no production value is there anything we haven't asked you, kq, that you really want to make sure you you share with our listeners today?

Speaker 3:

um, I don't think so. I'm trying to think of something pithy, but nothing's coming. No, I don't think so. Okay, perfect.

Speaker 2:

Ben, can I ask?

Speaker 3:

you something Sure. What are your favorite zombie medias?

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's a big question. I mean, that's our library of 109 episodes now.

Speaker 3:

See, yeah, I figured you would definitely have an answer. Do you have, or at least a lot to choose from?

Speaker 1:

are you looking for a recommendation or just a genuine like yeah sure, the most, a wreck both okay, let's go with rex, since I gave you a lot of recommendations well, I really want you to watch 28 years later because I think it's fantastic. Um. Others don't agree with us, but both dan and I are solidly in the like this is. I would give it like an eight out of 10. So I wouldn't say it's my favorite, but I think it's really great. It's worth watching.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think in the last couple of years, like of of movies that I hadn't already watched before we started all this, that like I just didn't know they existed. The Girl with All the Gifts I thought it was a really great movie. Have you read the book? I did, and I read the Boy on the Bridge.

Speaker 3:

It's just a sequel that's on my to-read. I haven't read. Isn't it technically a?

Speaker 2:

prequel it is. Yeah, it's a seek-prequel, seek-prequel which you'll understand when you get to the end.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, I've. I've read the first book and I watched the movie. I prefer the book.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely I. What I liked about the movie is how it stuck to the the book for the most part. There was a few things that were cut out, especially towards the end. That kind of made it a little bit jumpy at the end. Yeah, but I forgave it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and like it came out with the cordyceps thing before the Last of Us.

Speaker 2:

I think it was one of the first to throw cordyceps out there in the mix.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I have a pet peeve. I like the mushroom zombies, but I'm like that's not. Cordyceps are great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, leave cordyceps out of this. I love, cordyceps are great. Yeah, we have cordyceps out of this also in the last of us.

Speaker 1:

Those aren't cordyceps growing out of some of those zombies yeah, they're turkey tail turkey tail.

Speaker 1:

I saw some oyster mushroom like this is inaccurate get your mushroom straight okay, yeah, yeah, fair enough, um, but yeah, I think, oh, there's so many great indie authors we've talked to. If you let me know, like after this, um, anything specifically that like you love, we could probably give you a specific recommendation. We went to living dead weekend at the monroville mall, where the original dawn of the dead was filmed this summer, and we just had a whole stack of books and everybody's talked to us we would give them a recommendation based on what they like, enjoy. So there's a lot of good zombie fiction out there. That's been a lovely surprise and I'm very glad that we have added your short story to our list of reads and we hope that folks have also read it or are going to Go check it out. It's on Kindle, right? Yes, and can you also?

Speaker 3:

purchase a physical copy? You cannot, because it is only 12 pages. I still want it on my bookshelf, I know, but for like, sorry, the limit, the smallest limit, wow the minimum. The minimum is 25 pages on a ebook or on a physical book put some coloring pages in the back see like I could like beef it up with like excerpts from other things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that feels kind of a really long author forward or the sequel.

Speaker 1:

Her family finds her maybe. Hi, puppies, dogs, they're like you. Should be done by now. We're we're at the 90 minute mark. What are you doing? Well, it was really a pleasure to meet you, kq. I'm not surprised, as a fellow canadian, that we have things in common, and thanks for doing what you do.

Speaker 2:

And tell your dogs hi for us.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I will. I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 1:

It's okay. It's kind of a great ending. I love it. Bye puppies.

Speaker 3:

Bye, KQ Bye.

Speaker 2:

Thanks everybody for joining the Zombie Book Club for this episode. You can support this podcast by leaving a rating or a review. Um, five stars, please. Uh, you could also send us a three minute voicemail. Uh, you could say anything you want. Um, you could even send us a book pitch and we could make an elevator pitch for you or let us know what this brought up for you, this episode. You can let us know anything.

Speaker 1:

And we might read it on air. Well not read it. Listen to it on air.

Speaker 2:

At 614-699-006. Zero zero, three zeros and a six At the end of that. You can also sign up for our newsletter, which I don't send out all the time, so for our newsletter, which I don't send out all the time, so you're not going to get bombarded, but I do appreciate everybody who signs up for it. You can also follow us on Instagram at ZombieBookClubPodcast, or you can join us on Discord at the Brain Munchers Collective. All the links are in the description. You can find it all there. You can just click on it and go to the place. It's easy, um, but thanks everybody for listening. The end is nigh baby, bye, bye, bye.

Speaker 1:

Don't die unless medically necessary, supported by a doctor in which case we support it yes but um otherwise, please don't die. Please don't, unless it's a natural death. Bye, bye.

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