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Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
Rod the Zombie with special guest Kathryn Breen | Zombie Book Club Ep 107
When Rod becomes the only sentient zombie in a world overrun with mindless undead, he adopts a squirrel sidekick (Grim), starts naming zombies, and invents a lifestyle fueled by mealworms.
Things shift dramatically when he meets Bethany—a gritty survivor who doesn’t immediately try to destroy him. Together, they explore what it even means to be alive: grief, identity, free will, and the deep loneliness of being neither fully dead nor truly living.
Join us this week as we chat with author Kathryn Breen, a Syracuse-based teacher balancing motherhood and story‑crafting, about breathing heart and humor into horror. We dig into her magical spins on zombie origin stories, honor sibling bonds, and debate whether human cruelty or shambling flesh is scarier.
Guest Links:
- Author Website: kathrynbreen.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/klb.writes
- Pre-order Rod the Zombie: https://www.amazon.com/rod-zombie-kathryn-breen/dp/b0f49rpbtv
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There we go.
Speaker 2:That's a good idea.
Speaker 3:Alright, now I'm ready, okay.
Speaker 1:That was a close one, Leah. Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is the boy you date to piss your dad off. I'm Dan, and when I'm not disappointing my dad, I'm writing a book about a survivor of the zombie apocalypse who has two dads and she hates them both.
Speaker 2:And I'm Leah, and when I started reading Rod the Zombie, I had to go out on our front porch and ask our own Rod Zombie who is this, bethany? Why have you not told us about her yet? You're dating a human girl.
Speaker 1:I know Under our porch's roof.
Speaker 2:That's when he said you don't even let me inside. Why would I tell you? Today we are chatting with the Catherine Breen about her debut novel, rod the Zombie. And spoiler Catherine's rod is definitely not our rod, because he's actually handsome and ours is well made of plastic and definitely not romance material. But it was a very cool coincidence. And Catherine lives in Syracuse, new York, with her husband, two dogs. Oh, I'm sorry, see, I gotta redo that. I got to redo that. Sorry, I called your children dogs. Okay, pause. Catherine lives in Syracuse, new York, with her husband, two boys and their dog. She loves to spend time outdoors, primarily sneaking away for a weekend trip to the Adirondacks any chance they can. She's a teacher and working towards her degree in special education and in her limited spare time which, I believe you, that's got to be limited with everything else going on, catherine, somewhere between her wrestling toddlers to bed and fighting the unrelenting urge to get a decent night's sleep, she finds joy in creating stories. Welcome to the show, catherine. We're so excited you're here.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I find it so fascinating that you're from Syracuse, because I'm from upstate New York as well and we've also talked to other people who are from upstate New York and I'm just like what is it about upstate New York that makes somebody want to write about zombies and the apocalypse?
Speaker 2:Have you always been a zombie fan?
Speaker 3:um, I've always enjoyed it. I've never tried writing a zombie book until this one, um, but I always loved the genre, like the. I like the combo of the, the gory and the sweet, and so I I like that kind of stuff same here just a little bit uh, we have some rapid fire questions for you to get us started.
Speaker 2:These are questions we ask every guest, except for the last one, which is specifically for you about rod zombie yeah, okay, so you have a choice to make.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know what magic allows you to make this choice, but you can choose whether or not you're working a 40 hour work week or there's a zombie apocalypse and you no longer have to do the 40 hour work week.
Speaker 3:OK. So I actually gave this thought because I saw the sign on on your rod the zombie. At the event you went to Right, yes. So my gut was telling me zombie apocalypse, because I think I think it would be nice to see the world shaken up a little bit. But in reality I have two kids who are very loud and would probably get us in situations that would not benefit us in a zombie apocalypse. So I would have to say 40-hour work week.
Speaker 2:There seems to be a trend with parents choosing.
Speaker 1:I think is fair do you think there's room for our? Kids to adapt in that situation, or do you think that they just wouldn't get it?
Speaker 3:uh, my kids are very contrarian, so if I'm like guys, listen, you have to be quiet. There's absolutely no way they would listen to me.
Speaker 1:So, um yeah, I I sometimes wonder if, like being abrupt in in how to describe these things to children in a in a dangerous situation, is the better way to do it, or if, like you know, not traumatizing them is better. Like do you just come out of the gate and you're like, listen, there's monsters outside that want to kill you, so um, pipe down or slowly eat you.
Speaker 2:You want to get really real, or or?
Speaker 1:do you or do you use the soft touch and you're just like. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't um make so much noise as a because of the impending doom and all yeah, what's what parenting approach is the best?
Speaker 3:one hot take for my probably the best one would be the second one, but with my kids that just wouldn't work. I'd have to be like, listen, guys. It's gonna be bad if you guys are loud, like, yeah, because they, they just wouldn't take it seriously if I was like, hey, could you please be quiet?
Speaker 1:I guess it could backfire too, like if you're like yeah, there's flesh eating ghouls outside, they might just like just start screaming their heads off uncontrollably. So yeah, I mean, that's you know what. Every parent's got their own style.
Speaker 2:There needs to be a parenting book for the apocalypse. Actually, I would read that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, parenting in the apocalypse.
Speaker 2:If you were in a zombie apocalypse? You have no choice now. What would be your weapon of choice?
Speaker 3:So I would probably say axe it's the one that Bethany has in the book and I thought for a while about what I would use and I think it would be that, just because I'm not like a gun person, I don't know I think if I'm going to defend myself, it would have to be in a situation where, okay, they're coming at you, you have no other choice. I think, it's a good choice.
Speaker 2:It's a solid one.
Speaker 1:You could use it to break into things Any weapon that has a multiple purpose as a tool, like you got to carry stuff, so like you don't want to carry a lot of tools out in the apocalypse. So if you have something that does multiple things, then you're set. It's a win.
Speaker 2:Yeah no-transcript for their what unlimited shelf stable food they would choose to eat for the rest of their life in the zombie apocalypse. But we're thinking about doing the chop challenge again, so just be forewarned your answer to this could show up in a future episode as something somebody has to cook with. So it's the end of the world. You come into a warehouse. It's filled with a lifetime supply of insert. What would you want? That would be shelf stable.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I did think about this one too, so for me it would have to be I'm I'm vegetarian, so my first thought was it would have to be something high protein, like beans or something. Yeah, but then I asked my husband to, just because I was like I feel like I'm forgetting something. He said ramen.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I would be a good one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean you got those carbohydrates. You know people live off of ramen. It's not high protein but you can.
Speaker 2:You can find protein sources like nuts and seeds out there, yeah, and you could probably scavenge beans and then start growing some. Yeah, I'm just going to say that I think that there's like a disproportionate number of people who are zombie writers, who are also vegan or vegetarian.
Speaker 3:So very fun to learn that you are also in the club.
Speaker 2:I think it's more than most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd have to more than most.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd have to do an actual poll, but it's been quite a bit. There's been a lot of us, yeah, which is not what I expected.
Speaker 1:I expected a lot more. Like we're going into the woods and we're killing a moose yeah, I know. Like, if it came down to it, if I was in a zombie apocalypse, I'm sure I would eat meat, but like, ideally, I'd be like all right, where am I going to get my protein?
Speaker 2:from yeah, like at least the same. You know if you got to do what you got to do, but if you don't have to do it, then you know you find you find other ways. Yeah, if it's survival related, we're gonna do it, but I'm gonna be upset about it. I'll probably cry, right. Yeah, so this is a little bit more fun one. You find a dvd box set and a working dv DVD player and a solar panel so you can watch the same DVD box set for the rest of your existence. What's the one thing you would choose to watch for the rest of your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this can be like. This could be like a movie box set or a TV show. Okay.
Speaker 3:So I had two things come to my mind. I feel like they're not going to be exciting answers, but they're like my go-to comfort, like things to watch, and I feel like if I'm going through a zombie apocalypse, I need something comforting to watch. Well, so if it was a show, it would be probably Grey's Anatomy, just because, I don't know, it's just easy for me to watch, like I have it on in the background. And if it was, a movie.
Speaker 1:I love Hunger Games. I watch it a lot, lot, but so it would probably be that, if it was the movie, you know what lessons to learn from both. You know you get your medical training from your gray's anatomy. You're there with your notebook and you're like, okay, how do I do an appendectomy with a spoon? And it's like, which episode was that on?
Speaker 3:and it's like, oh, I like how you turned that into something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've only seen great as like like a few episodes of gray's anatomy, so I don't know how much medical knowledge you actually gain.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure anybody I've known who has medical knowledge is like don't follow the advice of gray's anatomy.
Speaker 1:But what's?
Speaker 2:smart about that choice, katherine is uh, that there is how many seasons now?
Speaker 3:like it's still going, going. I don't know, I don't even think I've seen the most recent seasons, but yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2:I think I stopped around season 10. I just was like I think I'm saturated and but I have a lot of friends who are still watching it. Yeah, and Hunger Games does feel like good apocalypse fodder. I also love that movie and I had a dream where, where I was basically in the hunger games recently, but not as cool as um I'm forgetting her name katniss, katniss, yes, katniss, everdeen yeah, yep, all right, this is the last rapid fire question for you.
Speaker 2:If you were a teenager in the zombie apocalypse, would you date rod the zombie?
Speaker 3:uh, I, I did make him like. I like his personality, but I don't think I could date a zombie. I think it would gross me out.
Speaker 1:What about our Rod zombie? No, I don't think so Burn.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've already established that Rod, the zombie in the book, is way cooler. Yeah, our Rod is no looker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's got really skinny legs, though Like it's mostly fabric.
Speaker 2:And some pool noodles that we shoved into his pants which sounds weird, but anyways, for legs. Well, I think you do a really good job of making us remember that Rod is not alive, like I was saying to you, like when I read the part about where he's getting ready for this special date quote unquote with Bethany, and like some of his face falls off, or maybe like some skins falls off and he's like maybe I just lost some, some chunk of me trying to groom myself and not smell like rotting flesh. That made it real.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like I liked coming back to the fact that he was dead, like I thought it was funny but at the same time, like I don't know it made it real Like he's a zombie. I don't know.
Speaker 1:It also sounds like being a teenager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, maybe if he was human. Anyways, I can't say too much because I don't want to give the book away, being a teenager is gross.
Speaker 1:You know, like I kind of I could see the parallels of being a rotting corpse and also like trying to figure out what your body is doing during puberty.
Speaker 2:So, for our listeners, could you give us a quick rundown of what is Rod the zombie about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Rod comes back to life. He's a zombie and he wakes up in the middle of the zombie apocalypse, only to find out that he's the only sentient creature of his kind. That he's the only sentient creature of his kind. Um so it ends up being very lonely and, um, he just kind of is trying to get through it. Um so he doesn't want to eat people because he realizes, like, what he's doing. Um so eventually down the road he meets bethany and she's not afraid of him like other humans are, and they end up having a connection and then truths come out and he learns more about her and she learns more about him.
Speaker 2:And yeah, yeah it's. I haven't really read or watched something like I think you said Warm Bodies was an inspiration for you or something that you enjoyed, and Santa Clarita Diet, and I haven't seen a lot of like sentient zombie media lately, especially with uh. But I want to be clear there's a lot more going on. Like romance is part of it, but there's some intrigue, there is some magic. I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit about like the zombie. So we have Rod, who is this sort of outlier as a sentient zombie, but how would you describe your zombies, because they're not your average zom yeah.
Speaker 3:So they're kind of being controlled by, um somebody who's called the crypt ruler. He's he brought them back and is manipulating them and making them do his bidding kind of thing. Um, and they eat, they eat people. They're fast, they're um mean, they don't know what they're doing, so they're they're just kind of mindlessly doing what their leader says. So, um, they're definitely not good. Um, but then throughout the um book it kind of like bethany and rod start to realize there's still people under all that like um, so it makes it a little bit more complicated.
Speaker 2:I, I guess yeah, that is the, I think, one of the moral dilemmas of the zombie apocalypse in any context, especially if they're especially one sentient, then you've got to wonder, like, what's going on underneath this drive to eat people? It's very disturbing. Also, they're magical zombies, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Um, so they were kind of brought back with magic. So that's how they came back. Um, so magic does play a big role in it. Um, I don't know, I don't want to give too much away, but yeah yeah and uh is it?
Speaker 2:we can take this out if it is spoiling it. But is it a spoiler to say that rod like woke up, he was already dead and he was awake, he was already dead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was dead before any of it happened. Um, and then how he died kind of comes out throughout the book a little bit, um, and actually in right in the beginning it says um, he, he was in high school, he was running track and then somebody kind of came out of nowhere and killed him, and he doesn't know why. Um, so it's something that always bothered him, and then as the story goes on, he learns a little bit more about that yeah, I'd be upset about that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also confusing to like wake up and be the only sentient zombie and be like somebody murdered me, yeah, yeah and you go to all the other zombies and you're just like what's your story? And there's like he does seem to have like, even though they're not.
Speaker 2:Um. This is again, I don't think, a spoiler, but there's very early in the book. There is a zombie who he refers to as mrs what's her? Name oh, price, mrs price, and it's like he has kind of an affection for mrs price. She is, she's not sentient and he's worried about who he's she's gonna eat, but like he knows her name, he calls her up like he thinks of her as a person. Can you share more about, like, how he interacts with the other zombies?
Speaker 3:yeah. So with that I tried to kind of make it like like he's all alone. So he sees these zombies on a regular basis. So he's kind of trying to put like some normalcy in his reality. Like he's like oh, my neighbor, mrs price, but really she has no idea he exists. And then, um, like the, the zombie squirrel grim, um, he like talks to him like he's his friend. He's rod is lonely and he doesn't really have anybody. So that's why meeting bethany is such a a huge thing for him and he worries about losing her, not just as in a romantic way, but, um, as as a friend.
Speaker 1:So it reminds me a little bit of um. I can only think of the other name of the book, omega man. Uh, I am legend where, oh, yeah, yeah, like in the movie will smith, uh, makes friends with all the mannequins. Yeah, because, he's so lonely is grim sentient.
Speaker 2:I've been trying to figure this out. Is grim sentient, or is he just a cute squirrel that accidentally became a zombie?
Speaker 3:What I tried to do with him was because Rod is the one that bit Grim and since Rod is sentient, grim ended up being like kind of staying a squirrel but dead, but a zombie squirrel. So he's not sentient but he's just like a regular squirrel that's dead.
Speaker 2:And chewing on fingers. He's very cute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2:We got a sticker. I don't know if you've seen the sticker.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know if I have either.
Speaker 2:It's on. We have a sticker wall, so I'll I'll probably. I've probably seen it then.
Speaker 3:I just have to. I so wait. So Grim the squirrel is kind of like a regular squirrel but is an. We see him crawl up his tree with it and stuff. But if anything, his zombie instincts kind of kick in more, like at one point he attacks somebody, he gets overwhelmed with the zombie emotion, I guess. But like with the other zombies who aren't sentient, like they're controlled by the Crypt Ruler, but Grim isn't so.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:Because he's bitten by Rod, but grim isn't, so oh because he's bitten by rod and rod isn't?
Speaker 1:oh okay, I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rod rod is special um it's always the worst and hardest part is when I've read something and I want to ask all the questions and I know I can't. So we're gonna move on from the thing I want to ask you, uh, but there's other stuff that I think will be good. Okay, sorry, I'm rambling because my brain went somewhere where I'm like I want to talk to Kat.
Speaker 1:Your brain squirreled.
Speaker 2:It did. Rod. What was it like to write from the point of view of an undead character? What was it like getting his head?
Speaker 3:I tried to more focus on the human emotions that he would be feeling, like the loneliness, the grief, like he misses his family and the life he had, um, and at the same time he's like he has these like monster instincts underneath all of that and he's trying to fight it for for so long that eventually he just he just thinks of himself as a monster. So, um, he's kind of struggling with those emotions yeah, he even calls himself a vegetarian zombie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what does he eat instead?
Speaker 3:so mealworms? Mostly because I was, I googled a lot of weird stuff, but I was like what are, um, I don't know that, just the nutrition that's in them. So I was like, okay, that could work. Yeah, oh, stuff like that my favorite vegetable mealworms.
Speaker 1:Um, are you sorry, I blanked. I squirreled, you squirreled. Okay, we're right here question five yeah, oh yeah, that's a good question. Um. So in this world, you know, you, you have, you have rod, of course, who's a sentient zombie. Then you have zombies, and there are still people. Who do you think is the most dangerous in the world? Is it the still living humans? Is it the undead squirrels? Um, or the undead people?
Speaker 3:because this was actually another one of my thoughts when I was like, um, you know, would you choose the nine to five or the zombie apocalypse? And I'm thinking about trying to protect my kids and I'm like, well, if, well, if it's not the zombies, it's the other people that would probably, like I don't know, zero in, like see a family and see us as like easy targets, I don't know. So I definitely think and I made them in this, this book too. It's further along in the book, but like the humans are also kind of attacking people and they end up being just as big a threat as the zombies.
Speaker 3:Like Bethany even says at some point, like because Rod's like why do you feel so safe coming out at night when zombies don't come out during the day? And she's like well, the people are out during the day. Like I'm not safe then either.
Speaker 2:Like so she's kind of stuck between these two evils sorry, our dog just came and breathed heavily in our face hi, do you hear? That? No, where did he?
Speaker 1:go. He's just looking at us around the corner.
Speaker 2:Come on in buddy um, our oldest dog is slowly becoming senile and so he does interrupt sometimes. Um, but back to what you were saying. Uh, it is interesting also that your zombies can't come out during the day. What happens to them if they try to come out in the day?
Speaker 3:um the. The sun, like, burns their flesh, so they can't last long in the sun would?
Speaker 1:would the sun eventually destroy them, or is it more of a preservation thing? No, it would eventually destroy them because that's something I've I've thought about as well. Like, uh, you know you're, you're like romero zombies, like if they were out in the sun all the time, they would eventually just dry out and just become husks. And like, wouldn't a zombie if they, if they had any, uh, self-preservation instincts hide during the day. And uh, that was another thing, sorry no go ahead oh no.
Speaker 3:Like writing the book, a lot of times I was like, well, do zombies do this, do zombies do that? Like like sleep, I was like, do zombies sleep? And there's no like like one answer, like it's different everywhere. So a lot of times when I was making decisions like that, I was like, okay, like I have to just decide and then create the world around that or create their, their beings, around that. Um, there's just a lot of like little questions I would have and I realized, well, zombies aren't real, so there's no actual right, yeah do you ever go on the reddit channels about zombies?
Speaker 2:I a couple times yeah I have found them to be fascinating because they talk about zombies like they are indeed real.
Speaker 2:It's like cosplaying in a way, but it's like you know, this is what zombies are and these are the things we have to do to protect ourselves. But it's a good reminder, and does make me feel safer at night, that they are not real. Yeah, and I think what's cool with the genre is you can make them whatever you want to make them, and you definitely made some very specific choices about yours that are not run-of-the-mill. Um, I think that's part of what makes it interesting, and also the fact that there's like an exception to the rule in rod being sentient is really curious. How long was he dead for before he was awoke, awakened is that the word awakened?
Speaker 3:so originally I was gonna have it be like 10 years, but then I was thinking about like well, if he comes back to life and he's been dead for 10 years, like he'll basically just be bones. So I changed that and I didn't give a specific date, but in my head it's like maybe a year.
Speaker 2:That feels about right, because he is definitely rotting, but still functional. Yeah, the other main character in your book is bethany, who we thought was secretly dating our rod. Can you tell us a little bit about her and what inspired her?
Speaker 3:yeah. So, um, I had the character of rod and originally I wanted him to be kind of more like a lovable, goofy kind of guy. Um, that changed a little bit, like he's still like lovable and everything. But I was. I wanted something to counter that. So I was like I want Bethany to be this like like miserable not miserable, but like grumpy, like kind of grumpy sunshine kind of thing. So I started her with that and then, as I wrote, her character kind of developed a more of a background. Like her home life isn't great. So a lot of her experiences before the apocalypse were very she lived in survival mode. So when the apocalypse starts she kind of emotionally transitions very easily Because she just she knows she needs to do what she needs to do to survive. Um, she's been through it. So, um, her goal is to protect her sister and, um, just survive.
Speaker 2:So yeah, in some ways things haven't changed for Bethany.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean they have she's living in a max Mart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's an interesting thing to consider too is that she was in survival mode, because I think a lot of us that have lived in survival mode, I think a lot of times we do kind of fantasize about the world changing in such a dramatic way like a zombie apocalypse, partially because it would erase the current apocalypse that you're living in, and also you're already prepared for survival because you've already been doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's kind of what I tried to do with Bethany.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it kind of puts everybody else on your level so that you can just continue with what's normal for you and everybody else has to adapt for a change. Yeah, I have a very serious question about Grim the Squirrel. If Grim the Squirrel bites another squirrel, is that squirrel going to be more of a Romero-style dumb squirrel zombie, or does it become one of Grim? Is it a different?
Speaker 3:squirrel, I think one of Grim. I would say, yeah, but if Grim bit another squirrel he would try to eat it. Oh, I don't think he would just bite it to let it live, but yeah, he it would.
Speaker 1:The idea is, if rod or grim or one of the sentient creatures bites another, it becomes that way so there's kind of a split, actually, of two kinds of zombies you could become maybe they should be biting more, more people and squirrels, right, you know if, if, if what they're going to create is like a little bit more, uh, mentally there, like maybe it would be better for the world if they bit more people maybe at one point, oh sorry, go ahead no, no.
Speaker 3:At one point in the book bethany wants rod to bite her. For that reason she's like if you bite me, I'll become like you, I'll be able to walk around without being afraid, and so that's kind of something that plays a role in it a little bit yeah, because she could walk.
Speaker 2:She could walk amongst them at night and she could also walk around in the day, because the humans seem mostly interested in killing each other in your world, right, yeah, that are left, which is such a disturbing reality of humans that's happening right now, sadly, uh so I don't think it's a stretch that people would be like that in the apocalypse.
Speaker 2:when you were trying to figure out, like what is the dynamic between rod and bethany, was there anything like surprised you as you wrote them and you're like, oh, this is the direction it needs to go in?
Speaker 3:I kind of had, you know, like when I outlined it, a lot of things kind of went off of what I originally thought, but their relationship was pretty stayed pretty on track, like the hesitation for her to trust him and his loneliness kind of driving him to want to be closer to her, and it all kind of stayed on track.
Speaker 2:What was your favorite scene to write about them? Is there one you can share? That's not a spoiler.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do have one actually. So Bethany's thing throughout the book is that she gets mad when people call her Beth and she likes to be called Bethany. So at one point they're trying to get away from zombies and they're like climbing on a rafter in an auditorium and Bethany slips and Rod like lunges to help her and he's like, oh, Beth, and she like screams while she's dangling from the rafter it's Bethany, I don't know. I just love that.
Speaker 2:She's so like adamant about like no, that's not my name, so I like that yeah, she's kind of fearless and has a very strong point of view of what she wants and how she should run, how the world should be run and what. What she wants, uh, other people to do for her. And it is interesting to see rod's dynamic. It almost reminds me of like um, I don't know if you follow attachment styles, but I would say like she's like avoidant, she's not so sure about rod, and cautious at first anyways, and then, but rod is has an anxious attachment style. He's like I want to be around you all the time, I'm obsessed with you yeah, I will do anything for you, like yeah, which is actually a very common relationship dynamic.
Speaker 2:So even when it's a zombie and a person in the apocalypse, there was still something very relatable about that. Um, I felt quite bad for rod just because I was like buddy, you gotta take it back a couple steps. I know you're lonely, go hang out with grim for a minute you're gonna to be okay.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned Bethany's little sister. She's also a major motivator in the story and it seems like a lot of Bethany's purpose for keeping going is her sister, abigail, and you dedicated your book to your own sister. I'm curious if you could share about how your own sister inspired this book, or what is the connection there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my sister passed away last last October. Um, I hadn't started writing Rod until a couple months later. Um, I, a lot of my books, actually have very deep sibling connections. I'm one of five, um, so I've always had a very strong relationship with all of my siblings and, um, so, besides, romance, like that's always been kind of like what drives people, what motivates people. That's not greed or anything like that, like something genuine that motivates people. And I would say, family, like your siblings, stuff like that. So I do always use, you know, sibling connections big in anything I've written.
Speaker 3:So, but, yeah, I dedicated the book to her with a quote. I actually wrote the quote before the book was even written. I have like a note notes section of like, like quotes that I think of for books that I might want to use in the future, or like character traits, um, that I might want to use on characters like, just like little little things. So after I, or while I was writing Rod, um, I went back into my notes app and I saw that one and I was like that would be really great to dedicate to her and um, so I used it in the book as well would you mind, could you read the quote for us?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, let me just open it. Um, so our time together was too brief, but I'm so grateful to have known you that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing about that and I'm sorry for your loss. I also I've one of one of four um with my family dynamic and Dan, you're one of five, two, there's so many of you.
Speaker 1:I mean, it depends on which family you're counting. But yeah.
Speaker 2:I think five is the official count yeah, that dynamic was really strongly written and I could feel Bethany's like willingness to do anything she could for her sister, which is really beautiful and, I think, an amazing tribute to your own and your own family. So thank you for sharing about that. Yeah, um, I'm curious if how warm bodies and Santa Clarita diet and the the combination of, like, grief and humor sort of showed up for you in that space of writing this book and also processing a loss in your own life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I definitely kind of used certain parts to vent my own emotions and when I went back I cleaned up a lot of it Because I was like, oh okay, like I'm just talking about how I'm feeling, because I've never experienced loss like that or grief, and I think using undead characters for that is a really great metaphor, because it's kind of I mean, I don't want to say obvious, but it's a little obvious and just being able to just use them to kind of show that just kind of helped me through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I can't remember where I heard this, it was recently but they say when you lose somebody, you lose them twice. Uh, first when they die and then when you move on and, like the, the undead are kind of just like that remnant of them sticking around after. So I mean, I guess in I guess in the zombie apocalypse it would almost be like three times yeah I think it's um.
Speaker 2:it is interesting because it's an underlying theme across the zombie genre is grief and death and like, how do we deal with death as a?
Speaker 2:Um, a people in a culture, and it's not something we talk a lot about elsewhere. I think that's part of why the genre is popular, um, because it's a way of grappling with it, so it makes a lot of sense, um, but that's one way to to write and process it, and I think what came out was a really excellent book. I would I would say to people who are listening is, if you're looking for something that is hard to put down um has twists you don't expect and characters that you love and also are mad at then you should read r the Zombie. That's how I would, in a nutshell, how I would describe it, because that bond between her and her sister is really beautiful and it's also really nice to have that as well as a romance. It's not just about this situationship, it's complicated. That's what it would be on Facebook, I'm pretty sure. Speaking of relationships, if Rod could give relationship advice, what do you think he would say?
Speaker 3:I don't know if I would listen to his advice, but he would say I don't, I don't know, I hadn't thought about that, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Relentlessly pursue them yeah.
Speaker 3:That's not good advice.
Speaker 2:Put yourself in dangerous situations. That's not good advice.
Speaker 1:Put yourself in dangerous situations constantly yeah, um, I don't, I don't personally have kids. Uh, leah doesn't have kids. We do have dogs, but um, it's kind of different a little bit, a little bit. Uh, I'm also I'm also not a teacher, but I wonder you're, you're teaching your parenting how do you also write at the same time? Like, how do you balance that?
Speaker 3:I write at night, after my kids go to bed.
Speaker 1:When do you sleep?
Speaker 3:It's really it's really like it's. Honestly, it's something I've enjoyed doing for so long. I didn't finish a book for until last year, but I've written for so long and I just I was like, oh, that would be cool to be an author someday. And then one day I was just like, well, why not Like? And then I thought about it and I was like, if I do this, I'm going to be investing a lot of time and probably money and just a lot into this. And I was like, is it worth it If it doesn't pay off, if nobody ever reads it, is it worth it?
Speaker 3:And just in my head I was just like I have so much fun coming up with stories, I have so much fun writing them, I have so much fun marketing like it's, it's fun for me. So I'm like, even if I don't sell a single copy, like it's, it's something I enjoy. So like after the kids go to bed, I get excited and I go and I write and I or I take pictures of my book, or like I don't know, like research, other things. Like it's it's fun for me. So it's it's really not about finding the time, it's I can't wait.
Speaker 1:Like I'm like I can't wait to write again like so it's nice yeah, it's, it definitely sounds like it's for you then, because, like you know, the the the biggest marker for somebody. If they're, if they're like I don't, I don't know what I should do for a living, um, it's like, is there something that you can make money doing that you would do for free, for fun, if, even if they told you that they can't pay you to do it, um, is there, is there a way to make money from that?
Speaker 2:because that sounds like probably what you should be doing I mean in a world where we don't have to worry about how to like. I think in an ideal world all of us could be pursuing our dreams in that way, and I wish that that was more the case for me too.
Speaker 2:But I think it's also like important the work that you're doing with raising your kids, with being a teacher. Does that inspire at all the way that you write when you think about your role as a somebody who's helping young people figure out how to be alive and thrive in this world?
Speaker 3:young people, figure out how to be alive and thrive in this world. I actually only recently finished school to become a teacher. I was working in the insurance business for a long time and I I did not enjoy it and it was a lot, of, a lot of like sad conversations because it's it's a mess. So I was, I I did think about it and I was like, what do I want to do? That I could feel good about myself and I'd already had my kids at that point and I was like, well, I do love kids, I don't know. So I went back to school and this past year is when I first started teaching. So and I've honestly really enjoyed it. It's exhausting and way harder than I thought it was gonna be, but it's really enjoyable. Kids are so great. So I really, really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:So this is not only you. You wrote and published your first book in the last year, but you also started being a teacher in the last year changed.
Speaker 1:And then you still were like.
Speaker 2:You know, what I'd rather do than sleep is write my book. I'm impressed.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I I I've been working on these things for a long time, but I will say, after my sister passed away, I it it just kind of put life in. I don't know, I don't know how to say it. It just made it, I don't know. For me, like losing a sibling was very like, it was like hitting a wall. I was just like, oh my gosh, like this is it was, it was real and it was raw and like nobody I spoke to could understand and nobody really knew what to say. So I was like what do I want?
Speaker 3:And, and, honestly, writing helped not that this is a healthy answer, but like it helped distract me from like how, how, how upset I was and and I mean everything was kind of a distraction for a while, but it it was better than doing something else. I guess she sorry if I don't want to talk about this, but she passed away from alcohol related illness, so she had a drinking problem, and a lot of people in my family have had drinking problems for generations, and I actually stopped drinking about three years ago after my son was born, and so finding things to keep me busy, especially when I'm in that vulnerable state, was very important, whether that's school or writing or doing something with my kids or whatever. Because, honestly, if I was still drinking after she had passed away I, it just wouldn't have been good. So, yeah, I'm I'm grateful for the choices I made in the past.
Speaker 1:So, Well, that's, that's really great foresight that you were able to have in that moment, yeah, that you were able to have in that moment. Um, yeah, I. Another another parallel that I see upstate New York is, uh, you know, functional alcoholism as as a common, like as a, yeah, as a as a culture, like as a tradition, almost.
Speaker 3:Um, it's really bad. Addiction's very bad here. Like not just my sister and and not just alcohol like I. I see it all the time. All the time like I've lost so many people to addiction and it's really upsetting because they're not bad. People like she wasn't a bad, she was a lawyer, she was a good person. She's she was in her 40s. It's not like she was, I don't know, and it's just, it's sad and I don't know what to do about it, but it doesn't mean there's not a better way.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think you speaking about it um is really vulnerable and brave, so thank you for sharing a little bit more about what happened to her, and also your own choices and the struggles in your family.
Speaker 2:I'll say I think I'd mentioned to you in an email like I've lost my sister was from cancer, so a different reason eight years ago. But I, I hear you when it's like people don't know what to say, and I also come from a family with a lot of alcoholism. So I think the fact that you made the choice a very difficult choice, because it's not easy to stop anything I mean, it's not easy to stop eating ice cream, let alone something that is actually like an addiction or could be an addiction, like an addiction or could be an addiction uh, to make that choice every day and instead sit down and write a book and create something really powerful that can help other people. And also, you know, it could be healing for other people because they can relate to what they're reading, but it can also be a distraction when they need it too. That's a healthy and positive distraction. That's um, that's its own form of magic. I hope you're really proud of yourself.
Speaker 3:Thank you, that's really nice, nice of you to say.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm, I'm getting emotional. I think that's really, um, may we all find that like that spark in a way to, to, to channel whatever pain and suffering we've been through into something really, um, special, what and again, like whether it was just for you or you have readers already I'm one of them is rare, so I hope more people get it. I hope people listening to this might feel more inspired to do the same thing, if they're not yet. Dan is reading to find a question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a very slow reader. Yeah, actually, on the topic of writing, I've learned that there's a few writers among us who are also slow readers. Are you a slow or are you a fast reader?
Speaker 3:goals and stuff, and it's like 203. I'm like I read one book a month, Like, and that's me reading every night. Like I'm a slow reader. Um yeah, and honestly, this summer I haven't. I just feel like summer is so busy with the kids, we're always like running around. So I honestly haven't read a book this month. But yeah, I'm a slow reader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I'm right there with you. Like I, I I actually write faster than I read, which is perplexing to me. Um, a question that I wanted to ask is do you have a special playlist when you're writing rod the zombie?
Speaker 3:um, so I did make a playlist, but not for a while I'm writing. I need like I can't have distractions when I'm writing or else I just I can't concentrate. Um, but I do have a playlist, um, yeah, and I think a good one. Like I like to pretend like this sounds silly, but like if it was like if Rod the Zombie was like a show, like what would his uh theme song be? Or something like that. And I'm like I think creep by radio head, I also, and like zombies obviously by the cranberries, like so it's all like that kind of stuff yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was snooping through your Instagram. I have a scheduled post coming out after we finish interviewing you, just so you know, and this will be in the past for everybody listening.
Speaker 2:But I was creeping your Instagram and I found one of your posts that had, like, some songs that you really loved and I was very excited to see uh, or that would like go with the, the book, and I was excited to see the cranberries there but I think creep from radiohead like if you were somebody who wanted to listen to music while reading a book. If you have the ability to do that, that would be perfect for any rod, especially the parts where he's alone, it's like exactly I was like.
Speaker 1:I just thought it fit him and the the setting really well yeah, um, so this is something that I learned from leah, because, um, I don't, actually I don't know, I don't know how this came up. So this book Rod the Zombie, you published, you went the indie route, you self-published, but the next book is going to be traditionally published. What made you decide to go the traditional route after going the indie route?
Speaker 3:So it's actually the other way around. So the other book I wrote first and a publisher it's actually the other way around. So the the other book I wrote first and a publisher it's not released yet. Um, a publisher like I signed a contract and everything, um, and honestly, I had already started writing rod when all that happened. And it's been very and I don't know if this is just my experience, but it's been very like I email them and they're like don't really get back and I don't have a lot of information on the book.
Speaker 3:I'm like I just I want to keep go, go, go going, you know? Um. So then when I finished, rod, like I pitched it to them and they gave me the same like offer and I was like, well, can you give me more? And they couldn't. So I was like, all right, like I'll self-publish this one and see, like just kind of compare, I guess so, and so far, this one's way more fun, like I, I can do whatever I want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so I mean to a certain extent, what are the biggest differences, you think, between the two, like that you've experienced so far?
Speaker 3:well, honestly, I gave them the book for them to edit in january and I that's.
Speaker 1:That's the last I've heard from them, really so that's the difference, is you just haven't heard from them?
Speaker 3:basically, um, and like I get little updates, like we're still on course, we're still like whatever, um, which is fine. I kind of figured it would be like this, because the contract says it would be within a year and so you know we're still a ways away from January. Um, but with Rod it was just like it was fun to like make my own stickers, to like do my own cover, like to to just kind of like get things rolling and to reach out to bookstores and like introduce myself and I don't know. I just feel like I'm more in control with it and it's it makes it more fun.
Speaker 1:I don't know I just feel like I'm more in control with it and it's it makes it more fun. Yeah, for a lot of people that can be really overwhelming to have so many things you have you have to do. But if it's something that you, that you truly enjoy, I can see how like having all that extra control.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I definitely do feel overwhelmed sometimes, but I had pushed back the release date and to give like double the amount of time I probably needed, so that helped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we got the preview copy. I'm trying to remember what month it was, but you definitely had things pretty much ready to go for a while, so do you have any advice. Like for somebody who's self-publishing for the first time, it seems. On the surface, it looks like you've got it all together, catherine. What?
Speaker 3:advice would you give? Or like what have you learned along the way?
Speaker 3:um well, I'm totally winging it, so I'm glad it comes across that way but, um, honestly, my biggest advice would be to find other writers in your area, because I'm a part of like a bunch of different groups on like, Instagram and stuff and it's just nice to be able to be like hey guys, guys like, what do I bring to my first book signing Like that. Like that alone is just nice to have like real people and instead of like like a Google search and people to talk to about that. But like, and I learned little things. Like another indie author, I was like what's the difference between publishing through Amazon and IngramSparks? And she was like well, if you publish through Amazon, local bookstores aren't going to want to buy it because they're their competitor. So I was like, okay, that's a big like. I just things I never thought about. So definitely, people like. Finding people is a big one. At least it has been for me.
Speaker 2:I think that resonates for us. I think I love that. It's because we've been very lucky to build this community and be a part of the community, which is extra fun for me as the non writer. I mean, I've Well, I am currently writing something, but I don't know if it's ever gonna go anywhere. It's ridiculous Aside, it's been really inspiring to do that, but everybody we know is all around the country and also across the world, and so what's it like to have people local? Do you actually get together with them?
Speaker 3:So one of the girls had a book signing at a Barnes and Noble near me, so I went and like met her that way. But other than that I've only talked to them online. But it's really nice because then they see like local things and then they're like, oh, there's an event over here and they just kind of fill you in and it's really nice Like, oh, for I don't know where she lives, but Joe Salazar.
Speaker 3:I met her, or I didn't meet her. I talked to her online through you, guys, um but she like sent me an event. Yeah, basically, Um, but she sent me an event that's happening in September and she was like, oh, this might be something, so like it's just nice to have people.
Speaker 1:I don't know, just people in your corner, I guess feeling of competition between between authors, like it's a collaborative experience and they know that like just because you sell some books doesn't mean that that they are going to sell fewer books.
Speaker 3:so everybody's just helping each other because you all have this combined love for a thing yeah, no, I agree, like they do not gatekeep, like everyone's been very open and just really I don't know really really kind, which is nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it sounds like you're the kind of person that will pay that forward too, as you're learning, as you just did, just by sharing a little bit, and I think it's cool that you're having the experience of both traditional and indie publishing, because that's you can make some really informed choices in the future. What's your other book about? Is it also?
Speaker 3:related? No, it's not. It's like a dystopian fantasy book. Um yeah, so I'm excited about that yeah, we do like other books.
Speaker 2:Contrary to the name of our podcast, I I actually lament the fact that I don't have time to read anything but zombie books sometimes because I'm like, because I'm also a slow reader and I have to say when you shared that it, every time somebody else admits they're a slow reader it makes me feel better, because book talk and bookstagram it really is. I feel like such. I just I'm like, I feel like an imposter because I'm like I like the same thing. I'm getting through a book a month it's typically the book that we're talking about on the show and it's hard for me to even get that done Like it's a rush.
Speaker 3:So yeah, like I'll see people's monthly books and I'm like you read 16 books this month. I'm like how?
Speaker 1:Some people can, but sometimes I do wonder if, like especially some of the bigger accounts, if they are just taking pictures of books and reading the blurbs.
Speaker 2:I would love to say that's true, but I have met these real life people who have goals of reading Like I. Have one person who I worked with whose goal is to read 365 books in a year. I'm like that's one a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are these short books? No?
Speaker 2:And I think it's like let's be honest with ourselves we would have to stop watching television.
Speaker 1:I'd have to quit my job. How would you have?
Speaker 2:kids. They didn't have children. I don't know how somebody with kids could do that. Or yeah, or a full-time, like kids plus full-time job. Sometimes I just want to stare vacantly at the television and watch Big Brother right or. Love Island or whatever other stupid show I like.
Speaker 1:They'd have to be like my grandma. Back in the day I shared a story with some of our friends about my grandmother, who was a voracious reader, so much so that I saw her driving through the parking lot of her grocery store once and I was waving at her and she didn't wave back and I was just like hello, I'm over here, it's your grandson. And as she drove by I realized that she perched on the top of her steering wheel, she had a book open and was reading it so dangerous and I told my family and no one believed me.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, do you have anybody that you credit for inspiring you to become a writer? Is there any family trait there?
Speaker 3:um, so my cousin is actually an author. Her name is Kathleen Kuntine. Um, so I was definitely like after she wrote her book, it kind of I was like I, I just like motivated me to keep going, and then my sister has always like written but never published anything. So it's definitely something I talk to my family about and talk about, so it definitely kept me going, for sure when did you know that you wanted to like let this be the thing that drove you and actually start publishing?
Speaker 3:um, probably I think I made the decision like two years ago, but it just was a long road. Like I started things and didn't finish them. It was just figuring out what worked for me. Like, if I outlined not enough, like didn't have an ending to my book, the book would just taper off and fizzle out If I put two too much information in my outline and then went off track. I just couldn't figure out how to get back on. So, just like, figuring out what worked for me took a really long time. Um, and then I just kept going. And then once I wrote one book, I was like okay, I can, I can do this. Like I know I can do it, I did it already. Um, so then I wrote another.
Speaker 2:So are you working on another book right now, or what are you doing beyond getting ready for the next book to come out and promoting Rod the Zombie?
Speaker 3:Nothing right now. I have ideas, but nothing that's like motivated me enough to actually start writing it.
Speaker 1:So is there going to be a Rod the Zombie 2, rod's Revenge-ening?
Speaker 3:So I've been back and forth about that because when I first started writing I was like, no, I want this to be a standalone. And then I I first started writing, I was like no, I want this to be a standalone. And then I like loved my characters. I was like, oh, I love these guys, like I want to see what happens next. And then I edited the book like a million times and I was like I never want to read this book again. But now that I haven't read the book in like a month, I'm like I think it would be fun to see where it goes like a month.
Speaker 1:I'm like I think it would be fun to see where it goes but I, I don't know yet.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love a series I love. I love getting deeply invested. Yeah, a lot of like uh, speaking of advice we've heard recently is like the series is really helpful to have, but I also appreciate a book that's self-contained. But it sounds like, uh, rod the zombie is pot.
Speaker 3:It's possible more could happen like it definitely ends where it could be the end. But like I like those books where you, after you read it, you kind of like just wonder about the characters and I kind of left it like that. So I'm like it could, it could be a sequel, but it's definitely the story's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think those are the most satisfying. It's like when you read a book and it leaves it on a cliffhanger, which was, I'm trying to remember, with the hunger games. If it was like that or not, I know there's been series I've read where I'm like did you really just end it here?
Speaker 3:did you do this to me?
Speaker 2:and then you'd have to wait a year or two years for the next book to come out. It's only every time I bought hardcovers was that kind of torture, so thank you zodiac, the zodiac academy did that to me.
Speaker 1:It would end on a cliffhanger every time you know, I think, I think it's actually smart to have, like, even if, even if you don't continue, uh, and make a series like, having that self-contained story is actually a really great way to start a series. Like, if you think about all of the great greatest trilogies, the first movie doesn't end in the middle of the problem. They fully resolve the problem of the first movie and then the two following it are sequels of each other. So if you look at Star Wars, star Wars is a self-contained story in one movie, but the Empire Strikes Back leads into Return of the Jedi, and all three of them make one giant story.
Speaker 2:But you could finish at one and be satisfied.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I appreciate being like not being left totally decimated and needing the next book and having to buy the hardcover. I'm having flashbacks to Twilight, that's so not that serious. Anyways, I am curious to hear a little bit more about, like who came first, bethany or Rod, and what was the spark.
Speaker 3:Rod came first, bethany or rod? And what was the spark? Uh, rod, rod came first. Um, like the idea of rod came first and then the name honestly came pretty much right after I was like oh it would be really funny if there was only one zombie, uh, that could actually like think and had its humanity or whatever. And then, um, I was like brainstorming names and rod zombie came and I was like, oh, that would be so funny, and this is also how our rod zombie was named, yeah, so like if something like makes me giggle, I'm like that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna grab onto that.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of how it happened.
Speaker 1:I mean it is brilliant because like it's like a title that like somebody looks at and they have to look at it twice. That's, that's just catchy, that's good. Like that's something that people are gonna pick up and be like what the hell is this? This is, this is. I can't believe this book is named this.
Speaker 2:Has anybody tried to draw Rod the zombie yet? Have you seen any like fan art?
Speaker 3:I had one one girl do a commission. I think it's on my Instagram, but I think she did a really great job.
Speaker 2:I'll have to go and look at that. I kind of want to do like a side by side of our Rod and your Rod and be like not or not? Which zombie would you date? What has it been like to? I know you're. You're, as this episode's coming out. It's going to be officially released a couple of days later, and so you've been sharing some preview copies. People have been able to do advance order. But what has the reception been like at this early stage so far for you, and how has that felt?
Speaker 3:People like the reviews and the feedback I've gotten in person has been really positive and at first I was worried because a lot of it was family and I was like, okay, well, obviously they're going to say nice things. And then once it went out to ARC readers, like I started getting feedback from them and I've been really, really happy with what I've heard so far. So it makes me really happy. Is it scary to put?
Speaker 3:yourself out there like that, oh my gosh, I was more afraid to tell my family and people I know than I was like strangers and I'm like I don't know. Just it's just weird. But yeah, I was very, very scared.
Speaker 2:Why do you think it's scarier to tell people that are like in your life?
Speaker 3:I also like I wasn't like very open about writing either. So when I started telling my friends, they were like you wrote, like you write, and I was just like, yeah, like I have like casually for a while and I just I just never published anything. So it was just like that whole conversation of like yeah, I write and yeah, I've been doing it for years and yeah, this took me a long time and now I'm doing it. So it was just like a weird conversation, I guess, and but but it but, but it's fun. Everyone's been super supportive and kind and it's been fun.
Speaker 2:That's really nice. I would feel very vulnerable to have my fam I I just recently let my mom listen to the podcast and, um, that made me so uncomfortable I was like, oh no, I can't make as many dick jokes as I usually do. And then we did anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did anyways.
Speaker 2:So I get that because it just it's like showing I don't know. It's like showing your family your underwear. It's like not a thing that you normally share. I don't know I can't think of a better metaphor right now.
Speaker 1:I mean it's personal.
Speaker 3:No, it makes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my, my mom is a is a writer and um, and I, I don't specifically really want to read her book, and it's not because I don't think it's good, it's because it's too intimate and like I don't. I don't like it. Might it might seem weird to for somebody to feel that way about their family member, but I feel like it's just a really deep and personal thing that it's like I'd rather just be your son over here at Thanksgiving. I don't want to know the inner workings of your brain. Yeah, and it's the same way. Like once I finish my book, I don't really want my family to read it, because it's personal, it's intimate, it probably has stuff about them in it well, yeah, I think all books do in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, because what else are we referring like? It's about ourselves and other people. Is it weird to like? Is there anything about bethany or rod that feels particularly like? Oh yeah, that's me writing a little bit of myself into this.
Speaker 3:Um, I definitely in the grief aspects for Rod. I definitely did a lot with myself. And then Bethany, kind of like her a little bit bitter outlook, but in the end she's like open to the kind of mind this Rod has to show. Like I can see myself in that. But I do use, like I said, I have a notes app of like personality traits, personality traits and like things I try to use, and there's one thing I do that I wrote in there Like somebody who always like says yes, three different ways Like oh yeah, yep, like I don't know, like little and I'm like I do that yeah, yep, okay, I know I do that.
Speaker 3:Oh, yep, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like to say it three times, like in three different ways. And I'm like, so I wrote that down, I was like, and then, and there's one thing, there's a character Wes in in Rod, um, I had something written down like somebody who always, uh, like um, ends a sentence with a temperature. So he's like oh cool, oh, that's hot. Like like little things like that, like little quirks people have. That I've seen and I'm oh, that would be a funny little thing to add.
Speaker 2:The two scariest people to be friends with are writers, and like psychologists or psychiatrists, because I just know. Catherine's like oh yeah, leah laughs funny. I'm going to incorporate this. I'm kidding. I know that literally, but you are observers of humanity Like that's part of what being a writer and a storyteller is is like noticing these things about people, that and also the level of self-recognition that you know that you're a three yes person. That's very funny, do?
Speaker 3:you think you'll write any more zombie fiction? I think so. Like when I first started writing it I was like, oh, this is so random, but I had so much fun like figuring out where they're going to live in the apocalypse, what's going to happen. Like it was a lot of fun for me and what made it different from my other book? Like my other book is like a dystopian fantasy, so it kind of takes place in a different world, so it's very different. Like this one is rooted in on our planet, so it was nice to have like the reality of everyday life. But then throw in magic and zombies. Like it was like, yeah, they can use cell phones, but there's also dead creatures after them. Like I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I appreciate the mat, like I appreciated the magical zombie too, cause I don't think we see that as often as we see, like the virus zombie, the bacterial zombie, the bacterial zombie or even now, like the mushroom, zombies have become really common.
Speaker 2:And so that like origin story of, without saying too much, how, the how I think the zombies came to be, because, just full disclosure, folks, I'm I'm two thirds of the way through Rod the zombie. So I don't have all the answers, which is also why this is tempting to ask you everything, but I need to just read it to know what's going to happen next.
Speaker 2:Uh, but I think I think I know, I think I have a theory, a working theory, of what happened and it's fascinating and different from anything else I've ever seen, so that's very fun to weave in. Um, do you think you'd keep going down the magical zombie route, like, even if you're not following the rod, the zombie world, or would you do something different?
Speaker 3:um, I'm not sure. I hadn't given it, thought I'm not sure, but it is fun to write, I don't know like the human perspective in that whole thing, like what the choices people make and the things they have to do when it comes down to it, which I really enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know something that I that I like about um, the magical zombie origin is that it's it's mysterious, and I I think sometimes people will give away too much about what has made things happen the way that they happen, and sometimes it's good to just like be like yeah, people are coming back from the dead. We don't know why, and magic is exactly that. It's just just like there's magic. Magic happened. You tell me how magic works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because even if you can know who is I'm trying not to give a lot of weight like who is involved in the magic there's still the mystery of how the heck that works, like you can't ever fully answer that. And also something about a zombie coming back to life. I feel like that's not done enough anymore. I always just see like, other than like the instantaneous you're bit and then you come back. But people rising out of their graves is also not a thing that I see very often anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I realized that I was rereading, I think, hunger Games or maybe some other books and I realized that, like, as they tell the story, they don't give details. Like a paragraph of details, they she says something and then the reader just kind of fills it in. So I was trying to do that a little bit like because when you get like like overwhelmed with information in a book, I feel like it's easy to like fall out of it. Yeah, so I tried not, I don't know get too detailed, because obviously I did like weird research about zombies and undead or dead people, I don't't know. You know what I mean Like, and I'm like the reader doesn't want to know that Like they just they just need to know the surface level and then they can fill in the rest with their imagination.
Speaker 1:Just enough. It's like it's, it's a, it's a tipping point, you know. Just enough to let them know, like, what's actually going on, and enough for them to use their imaginations, like, once you get that yeah juice flowing in their delicious brains. You know, that's that's when, that's that's when the story takes off for the readers, when, when their brains are filling in those details yeah, and that allows for that interpretation of the art too, for everybody to have their own experience reading it.
Speaker 2:I think that's really cool and I love that you are like when you're reading a book, not only you experience reading it. I think that's really cool and I love that you are like when you're reading a book, not only you're reading it, but you're also studying how it's written. That's a whole other level. Do you do that too?
Speaker 1:I try to, but that's a lot to hold on to. I honestly don't know if I understand writing well enough.
Speaker 2:But I don't think I would have noticed that Just because I'm just enjoying the book, you know. But it's a very good point. There was something I was going to ask you. Sorry, it's a lot, I've lost it. I hate when this happens, when it's just gone. It's gone, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry It'll come back and then I'm like darn it. I should have asked you and maybe we can have a follow-up or something like that. Is there anything? Well, actually, just as an aside bar, because all of what I just said will be deleted from the actual episode, is there anything we haven't talked about that you wanted to get more into or share about before we start to do the wrap up?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. That was everything.
Speaker 2:I had in mind. Okay, awesome, I really okay. Sorry, I'll do that, I will. Just the one thing I forgot to tell you was that we'll do our outro and we'll say bye together, but if you can like stay on for a couple seconds after, that would be awesome. Once or twice somebody's just hung up and I'm like oh no, that was to the audience. Okay, do you have another question you want to ask Dan before?
Speaker 1:we start wrapping up. I have a question. Yes, let's pretend that you are writing a sequel to Rod the Zombie. Are we limited to zombies, or would a sequel also have vampires and werewolves?
Speaker 3:Oh, in Rod's world probably just the zombies. But it would be fun to write a book with vampires or werewolves. I would definitely enjoy that. Would there be more zombie squirrels I hope so I like Grimm. He is very cute. What?
Speaker 2:if it's the rise of the squirrels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:The squirrels are taking over. I mean that would be a great vengeance story because squirrels really are amazing creatures and live in a very dangerous world of humanity yeah, food for thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're welcome you could write a children's.
Speaker 2:Is that inappropriate? You have kids. Can there be a book about from the point of view of grim for kids?
Speaker 3:that could be cute is there a way to make that?
Speaker 2:child appropriate I'm sure there's something there okay, I love just telling people like, please write this thing for me, I'm not doing it. Uh, so where can listeners find you online? And, most importantly, go and get rod the zombie for themselves yeah, so I have website katherinebreencom.
Speaker 3:I'm mostly on Instagram, klbwrites. Yeah, that's where I am and you're doing some events, right? Oh, yes, I'm doing a book fair in Philadelphia on August 9th, so right after the book comes out, so I'll be there, and then I'm doing a book signing at Barnes and Noble in the mall near us, destiny, and then in October I have a couple of events that are local as well.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just did our first in-person con and I thought it was going to be. I thought it was gonna be scary and awful and now I'm like, can we do more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was gonna say, if there's any in syracuse that you think would be awesome, um, oh yeah, let us know, because we're not that far from you.
Speaker 1:We're only a few hours away my mom will want me to come visit just don't tell her I won't tell her no, I'm so nervous to do like an in-person.
Speaker 3:I've never done so, I don't know. I'm like I signed on for three, so now I'm like maybe I should have just started with one and see what went.
Speaker 2:So I mean, you manage how many children in a day? Your own, but then also kids at school yeah, like 20 yeah, you'll be fine, yeah, you'll be. So, just apply. I'm sure that some of those things are still applicable. Um, what's your worst fear?
Speaker 3:honestly that that I'm gonna stand there and everyone's gonna walk by, so I'm gonna have like stickers and stuff and I don't know. But it's fine, my friend's coming with me, so I'm just gonna hang out and, yeah, just kind of enjoy myself they'll come and talk to you.
Speaker 2:Um for sure that will happen, especially with the cute stickers. Grim is a great intro too for people, so it's very smart to have that as a hook. But also be forewarned there will be people that won't leave your table. Okay, so have an outro. That's my unsolicited. Advice is have a thing that can segue them away.
Speaker 1:Also find your exits.
Speaker 2:Yes, because the zombie apocalypse could outbreak.
Speaker 1:You gotta check the exits.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's what I learned. I was like, oh okay, like it's fun. But then you're like, hey, I like there's other people like oh no, that person wanted to potentially talk to us, but I can't because you're still here and it's been two hours, and like maybe we need to figure out a way to segue that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then sometimes you're like you know what?
Speaker 2:I will talk to this person for two hours yeah yeah, I bet you it's gonna be awesome. Um, can't wait to hear about it. Can't wait to celebrate your book being officially out just a couple days after this podcast is released, so everybody stay tuned for that. But you can also pre-order it so you can get it real fast that way. And, um, it's been a pleasure talking with you, catherine. Thank you so much for coming on the show and creating our favorite zombie. Rod the Zombie. Are you going to do the outro Dan?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and thanks everybody for listening to us the Zombie Book Club people, the people that make this podcast. This is the best outro.
Speaker 2:I think we need a lot more. You need more caffeine. I do. I ran out, I'm out of caffeine Leah.
Speaker 1:Anyways, if you want to support us, you could leave us a review.
Speaker 2:We like those, those help us Five stars please.
Speaker 1:If you don't like us, you can just not do it. Yeah, if you don't like us, you can get out of here. That's what I say. Uh, you can also send us a voicemail at 614-699-0006. Actually, if you don't like us, send us a voicemail because that'd be amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't even have to say who you are yeah, but no, but no.
Speaker 1:But don't no less than five stars send us a voicemail instead. Uh, you can follow us on instagram at zombie book club podcast, or you could join our our Discord of lovable weirdos in the Brain Munchers Collective. Ollie made it.
Speaker 2:There's a whole bunch of people there. Yes, go find them.
Speaker 1:But thanks everybody for listening. The end is, it's nigh.
Speaker 2:Baby, bye, bye, bye, don't die.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Bye, everybody, bye-bye, oh my God. Bye everybody, bye. Thank you, catherine Okay.
Speaker 3:We did it we did it Yay. How was that for you? Great Thank you. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, it was really nice to get to know you and hold myself back from asking all the questions. I'm almost starting to think I shouldn't read a book before I talk to somebody, because now I'm like I want to know if it's maverick I want to know. Spoil all the things I want to know, yeah but I know I'm gonna know, so don't tell me.
Speaker 1:But it is. It is coming to a point where we probably can't read people's books before we talk to them, because it's yeah, I just want to talk about.
Speaker 2:I want it to be like our own personal book club with the author, which isn't what we're here for we didn't.
Speaker 1:We didn't think that people would want to talk to us when we started this. Yeah, it was a surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah um is this your first podcast interview? Yes, you did great thank you, yeah thank you. I wanted to say like off uh recording, although hold on, I should stop recording yeah, I'll let stop too, why not? Uh, there it is.
