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Zombie Book Club
'The Non-Essentials' with Special Guest Z. Martin Brown | Zombie Book Club Ep 80
In this episode of the Zombie Book Club, hosts Dan and Leah sit down with Z. Martin Brown, author of the tech-zombie thriller The Non-Essentials. They delve into the novel's unique take on zombie lore, discussing themes of fear, survival, and societal absurdities. Zach shares insights from his diverse experiences in the film industry, small business ownership, and working as a mortuary transport driver during the pandemic, all of which have influenced his storytelling.
Guest Contact Information:
- Website: https://zacharymartinbrown.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/z.martin.brown
- The Non-Essentials: Purchase the Book
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Like my uncle said over the holidays like you swear way too much, I'm like dude, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a beast and the beast is a suburban, and the suburban is full of stolen toilet paper, and that's why everybody wants it so bad. I'm Dan, and when I'm not driving my own beast, I'm writing a book about the zombie outbreak. And for real, no joke, I've strongly considered centering it around a 2002 Chevy Suburban.
Speaker 3:And I'm Leah, and today we are super excited to be chatting with Zachary Martin Brown about their book, the Non-Essentials. Zach has worked in the film industry, ran a small business and even hauled corpses to a mortuary during the height of the pandemic. Now, based in Arizona with their sweetheart, zach is channeling those experiences and their vivid imagination I can affirm this is true into the Non non-essentials, a gripping tech zombie trilogy. We are so thrilled to have you on the show with us today, zach. Welcome to Zombie Book Club. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:Great Thanks for having me. Guys Happy to be here.
Speaker 3:It's a long time coming. I'm always excited to chat with an author like you and a listener of the show, so thanks for making the time to chat with us. We've got some rapid fire questions. Listener of the show. So thanks for making the time to chat with us. We've got some rapid fire questions.
Speaker 2:They're really rapid, yeah, the rapidest. You just hold down the trigger on these questions and they just keep coming. Yeah, I don't know why I said that First of your rapid fire questions. Don't worry, we're judging you off of this, fast or slow zombies in real life or in media, your interpretation okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I think real life. I mean I would want a slow zombie for survival purposes, uh, and you know, and in the movie I mean like 28 days later did a really good job speeding up their zombies. That still kind of gives me chills thinking about it. Oh yeah. So yeah, there you go. Slow real life fast. But you know if Cutwell and if the zombies are able to organize, I suppose if they are slow moving, there is a serious force. When you have a lot of slow moving zombies to deal with, you know that is a challenge you underestimate especially if they're a high mind zombie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they can be slow, but if they're all working together, I think you're in trouble.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I hope that satisfies the rapid question Number one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was, that was, that was perfect. I actually, you know, I I think most people are going to say slow zombies for real life, regardless of how they feel about movies, because, like, why would you just want to challenge yourself more?
Speaker 3:only if you were like an olympic level athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, running track person maybe I ran in the olympics and I don't want anyone to survive unless they've also ran in the Olympics.
Speaker 1:If there was a kicker. Let's say, the fast moving zombies had a shorter shelf life, they just buzzed out faster. You know, I might change the odd on that and just deal with a fast fucking group of zombies. Granted, I would need to step up my uh defense. You know a bit to kind of handle that kind of situation. Like you're saying, give me an whip that can go 90 comfortably. You know that has at least 8 000 pounds of gross weight.
Speaker 2:Let's do it yeah, and that sounds like a very random gvwr to uh play with are you two talking about vehicles?
Speaker 1:are you? That was some car talk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, that was happening I I'll just smile and nod when those parts happen?
Speaker 2:that sounds like it's right from the door jam of a chevy suburban yeah okay, next question got it 40 hour work week or zombie apocalypse?
Speaker 3:which do you choose?
Speaker 1:oh, zombie apocalypse. I mean like can't stand working for people. You know it's crazy to think that 40 hours you have to just burn into some soul-sucking company that's just gonna just take it out of you and demand more and see how much they can do before any kind of raise is even presented. Yeah, ever, yeah, zombie apocalypse. At least I'd have some like uh, some say in the matter. You know, I can choose my fate a bit we are also team zombie apocalypse, especially lately I mean the way you describe it.
Speaker 2:40 hour work week does sound like you are the zombie in the apocalypse absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a third of your life right there. Oh, don't say it like that.
Speaker 3:These are the things I have to not think about too much, otherwise I'll dive into a deep black abyss of depression.
Speaker 1:All right, no more math.
Speaker 2:But let's just say a good chunk yeah of your time if you were in the zombie apocalypse, which would be your weapon of choice?
Speaker 1:I love, uh, you know, well-oiled, like glock, super effective of course, but ammunition's a bitch, so you know it's going to be like a sword for me in the end. It's going to be a long blade. Uh, that was built with a good quality, you know steel, and uh, with something like that, as long as I could keep, keep it sharp, um, it's silent. Uh, I'm good with a blade.
Speaker 3:I'm good with a blade do you have sword wielding experience?
Speaker 1:no, but I have a lot of chef friends and they would, um, remind me how important it is to sharpen my shit. And I would now, I I do that. I sharpen my blades to make their sure their razor sharp and it makes a difference. And uh, but no formal training. I've just been scolded enough times and I just have learned through.
Speaker 2:You know that over the years I I've I've have yet to see in a like a modern zombie film. Anybody use something like a long sword, like a claymore or a glaive, um something two-handed. I I recently saw something where, um, uh, some somebody was debating whether or not they're too slow, but really, uh, people just don't know how to use them. You're supposed to kind of just keep spinning and hacking, and I think that'd be super effective and hacking and I think that'd be super effective, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, this game I used to jam on dynasty warriors excellent, familiar, uh, double sword in that exact motion, dan, just spinning around like a tornado, completely destroys fox in your way.
Speaker 3:There's nothing left after that and it's good I don't think you need to be a pro, because if they're zombies, generally they're not that coordinated. Yeah, and they're also not trained sword fighters. So I think, as long as you can whip it, around, so don't have swords.
Speaker 2:Yeah, usually, yeah, um, it's, it is the zombie apocalypse, like we'd mentioned earlier. Um, you get to only have one unlimited supply of shelf stable food, some type of item that's all shelf stable. That is, uh, that you get to eat for the rest of your life, however long that is. Um, what do you choose?
Speaker 1:it's a tough one, you know. Long term, getting used to anything, it's going to be tough, uh, but at the end of the day I would go for peanut butter. I love peanut butter, first of all. That's. That's a good thing. Um, it lasts a while. I'd want great shelf life. And if you were to forge and find berries or some things along the way and mix that up and just keep that peanut butter as a base, it's very good. You could even pour it and, you know, turn it into little bars to make snacks, with these fruits and nuts possibly added to it. I mean, I would dip a grasshopper in a peanut butter and just make that happen. You know what I mean. Like, give me a snake, I don't care, the peanut butter will do a good job.
Speaker 2:Peanut butter snakes, yeah, of everybody. That's too far.
Speaker 3:That's too far I can get with the grasshopper, but I um, I'm a redneck by her and I was at a family reunion once and somebody brought a giant jar of pickled snakes and I did not eat them. But I've been disturbed. I actually like snakes, the animal, but I the idea of eating one just brings back a very disturbing visual and memory.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, but I do like peanut butter also, it's good baits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what about you guys? What's your what's ours.
Speaker 3:We've had to answer this before and I always change my answer up. Actually, most recently I was going to say peanut butter too, because we were watching the zombie movie the battery last night and they have this apple orchard that they live near with a plethora of apples, and apples and peanut butter is a win for me, so I would be team peanut butter as well. Okay, I'll go apples, then We'll have apples and peanut butter. Apples are not shelf stable unless they're dried Apple trees. Apples are apples. They're also not shell stable. They are if you keep watering them. All right, we have one more rapid fire question for you, a little more dark possibly, depends on your psychology. How do you think you would cope mentally and emotionally if you were in a zombie apocalypse?
Speaker 1:I would have to. Unfortunately, I think to deal with it you'd have to look at everything with such a grain of salt. You'd have to lose empathy to a degree to kind of deal with the mass of death around you and just chaos. So I believe once you get to a point of losing that much empathy, animal instinct would kick in inevitably. And at that point, once you become animal, you're going back, you mean you're going no longer a, uh, almost saving. At that point you know, by definition, you're going back a few stages and evolution and uh, you know. And then it would get to a point where I, I just kind of just lose, likely, just what it used to be. Hopefully, I hope I I'd hope I'd lose my memory basically of what it was and to deal with a lot of the present and it would be a lot of transformation. I think it would. It would take some time but hopefully it would, it would, it would get through.
Speaker 2:How was that cool? I was going to say, that sounds wonderful just get back to your animal instincts especially the part about forgetting everything about being a human.
Speaker 1:That sounds awesome that wasn't too dark, dan no every time I have an edible.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the goal yeah, right, that is true.
Speaker 1:Every time I have an edible, that's kind of the goal. Yeah, right, that is true, just fuck it.
Speaker 3:We did discuss that we could talk about drugs here today. So I will just say briefly there was a time where Dan was on mushrooms and he was. You can tell me you're going to delete this part. Dan, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know what you're about to say.
Speaker 3:Dan was on mushrooms and I just saw him looking at himself and it was at night time. I saw us looking at himself in the reflection of the sliding glass window because it's pitch black. Right, we're in the woods and I just looked at him and I was like, yeah, that's you. And he's like, yeah, there's a dark person in here. It's like there's a dark person, there's a dark version of me. Yeah, and I was like that's great honey. It's in all of us, yeah.
Speaker 2:There it was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, let's get into the book. So we've had the pleasure of reading the non-essentials. I actually read it aloud to Dan, which was always fun to do, and I'm just curious if you could give us for the listeners who haven't read it yet just a really brief synopsis of what this book is about, the first in your series, yeah, book one, non-essentials, you know.
Speaker 1:It's about a coastal town, specifically Bellingham, washington, which is near the Canadian border. Basically, the town erupts into a battleground not just a town, but the state. The town erupts into a battleground not just the town but the state and it's said that a pathogen is sweeping through and claiming lives, killing thousands. So the governor clears phase zero, which is a mandatory shutdown, complete shutdown, and through this turmoil, max and his friends. They eventually need to find their loved ones and to do that there are some obstacles in their way, and one being a sinister funeral director. There's an evil sheriff and a bunch of tech zombie deputies that are running and ruling the entirety of his town and it basically becomes a giant shit show for Max overnight. And, unfortunately for him, he suffers from a phantophobia which is just an extreme anxiety, specifically just the fear of death. You know, is a challenge to get through the day for him in a lot of ways. And that's basically it in a nutshell. I don't want to give too much away, but other people would also say that it's like an adrenaline ride from the first page. It's a lot of. He wakes up and it's like a. It's an adrenaline ride from the first page. It's a lot of um, he wakes up and it just kind of this things just happened to him over and over and he's dealing with that the best he can. Um, without first, you know, limited information and uh, yeah, it was uh, it's my debut novel and it took uh novel and uh, it took uh some time to get it through the door and get it out and available for others. But I'm it is available and I'm happy with the uh, the overall book. I'm uh it it. It took a lot more editing than I ever would have thought.
Speaker 1:I uh for being a debut, but I am fortunate that I have a. My significant partner, mene, has been always pushing me in every creative project or adventure that I choose and that's wonderful to have that kind of support. And I might not I'm definitely not a genius in the field. It is a challenge and that's the reason why I like it. It's a lot of work and it focuses you and it pushes you and it makes you become disciplined. If there's anything I have, I have a tremendous tenacity in the things that I become like passionate about and I just have like this thing where I get it in my head and I have to get it out and it has to be done. You know, it has to be done really well.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great quality to have. It feels familiar. Yeah, asking for a friend About how long did it take to finish this book?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, well, I started writing just like notes when I was moving bodies, just about it, I was moving bodies. I come home, my sweetheart hey, this happened today and I described briefly she just her jaw would drop and she was like to like write these down, and that's how it kind of started, but it wasn't the non-essentials then. And, uh, but he got the juices going, so the I left Washington, I moved to Arizona, uh, where I'm currently at um in 2021. I joined a writer's group, uh, six months after moving to Arizona and and by that point I had a rough draft of the non-essentials. And then I joined the writers group and I was with them for a year.
Speaker 1:We would submit chapters to one another and that was excellent because I was working with six, seven other authors, published authors. I was the youngest one in the group. They had 100 years of experience on me combined, and so I just soaked up everything they gave me. So every week, we would read 4,000 words of each other's work and we would critique through email, and then every other week, we'd meet in person and then talk about the chapter that was submitted previously and that went on for a little over a year, and then, at that point I only had, so that was a year and a half. And then, at that point, I only had, so that was a year and a half.
Speaker 1:And then for the next year it would have been that November, winter of the end of the year I was editing and re-editing, editing, re-editing with two other editors until it was done. So, to answer your question, dan, it was like two and a half years is what it took. And yeah, I mean, for me that was the longest like singular project I've ever worked on in my life, without a doubt, like there was nothing else that even came close. I worked in the video field production for a long time. I went to school for it, even and you know you work on even like a like Twilight. I worked on that really shitty film, twilight.
Speaker 3:You did yes.
Speaker 1:That was my first gig, actually, and you know I was on it for like three months, so it took to make the whole film, you know. And then I went to editing and ADR and sound and all that stuff, color correction, and have you, and you know, I at the same time time there's just one person working on a book, right? So, um, and in the same time there's no way to distract the reader in any way through a sound or through a special effect, like every word should be there for a reason and there and then ideally there's, there aren't any mistakes. The grammar is uh, the goal is to make it flawless, and if you just try to achieve that, even though perfection is, like, impossible is what they say.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, I actually recently saw something um on bookstagram that was basically like proof that something was not written by ai is typos. So like be proud if you have a typo in your book.
Speaker 2:Well, ai is going to start figuring out how to do typos soon. Yeah, how would you describe the types of zombies that you have in your book and what role would you say that they play in that story?
Speaker 1:So in Non-Essential's trilogy in that story. So non-essentials uh trilogy I have, uh, these zombies that would be like a tech horror, it would be like the classification and then within that, um, these zombies are mind controlled and, without going any to too much details, they have the guts that are needed for a higher power to exist. And in book two we dive deep into the reason and who's involved and why they're involved and how they got there. Because you're right, leah, you mentioned earlier that the zombies and the non-essentials aren't revealed until much later in the book, and that is absolutely correct. And two, we understand a lot about them, which is actually coming out very soon. So book two is this winter, it will be out and I'm excited about that that's very exciting.
Speaker 3:Let us know the date we'll start pushing it, uh, on our socials too, because we definitely want to know what happens next. And there were definitely moments when I was reading I'm like, okay, we have a pandemic, there's some shady shit going on with the government and there's some sciencey stuff happening here. Where are the zombies? Are they coming they in here? And then all of a sudden they appeared and I was like, yes, you just made us wait for it and it was great without the zombies. Like it's a great apocalyptic tale period. And then, when you get the zombies, it's like, in my opinion, icing on the cake is the best part. So I was like there's the icing, I've got this great cake and now I can see, like, where this might be going as a trilogy. So it was a really exciting moment for us.
Speaker 1:Oh good, yeah, Book two. It probably would be out like now, but I made like a last minute decision, basically, like upping the ante, I read it. So I have two editors and one is in a different state and then one is my sweetheart. She's, I'll have her and I will look at it as a final read through and just kind of like have that option to discuss it and that's that's important. And basically we both agree, like the, the stakes need to be higher and there need to be more of them to uh, to just why not? You know, it was like how far, what? What is the shelf? And if we see the shelf, can we go like 10 percent more? Is that okay? Is that allowed? I think so. And, and you know it's a lot more editing and writing and having to write two additional uh, you know chapters now and a lot of you know rewrites, but at the end of the day, it's about you know doing whatever you can to make the story as best as possible without you know, you know, killing yourself in the act.
Speaker 2:Of course, when does it end?
Speaker 1:It needs to be a stop.
Speaker 3:How do you know when it ends? When does it end? Yeah well, how do you know when you're done? You're like this is it? You know you?
Speaker 1:for me. I just you feel it like if you're able to give yourself a little chill, you know, and it just feels like, okay, we can stop and it makes sense, then walk away. You know, um, or, or you get to that seventh rewrite and then just stop.
Speaker 3:You have to put a I do think that there are parallels in the creative process of like painting and sculpting, which is what I do in writing, and it is. There is the moment where you just have to say, like this is done, now I'm I'm satisfied with this, even if every single brush stroke isn't exactly what I imagined when I first started, it's created, there's a picture here now and I'm satisfied with this picture. So I kind of imagine it's sort of what writing is like. Um, I wanted to ask you about the setting, because Bellingham Washington is a real place. I Googled it and I don't know about Oak Falls, though I didn't Google that location, but Bellingham Washington Oak Falls are two very important locations that are almost like their own characters in this story and I'm curious what your relationship is to that place or what it is about that location that you felt was important to be the base of your story place, or what is it about that location that you felt was important to be the base of your story?
Speaker 1:Right, bellingham, washington. I've been visiting the city for many years. My family lives there Actually, I'm the only one who's out of states I have a father out east as well but everyone else is up north in Bellingham and I actually lived there even for and I actually lived there even for almost four years up until 2021, before moving down to Arizona, and so I have a strong connection with Bellingham. I have owned and operated a business in town. I've been visiting family and friends over the years. It's a lovely place. It's right on the San Juans and near Mount Baker, and it's just. If you're outdoorsy and like to be around nature, it's definitely a place for you. I'd imagine the environment is similar to you guys who are in Vermont, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we just have better mountains nearby.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't say better Sorry mountains, some burly mountains, sorry, some bigger mountains yeah, no, it's true, mountain baker, it's a fantastic um range, the cascade range entirely, you know, running through that um area and that is very much in your backyard. And, uh, in oak falls the other town is actually made up, but it is based off another town which I guess, based on how Max sees it, I didn't want to. I don't know, like, come off, like I have something against the town.
Speaker 3:I just needed like a place that fit this environment yeah, I think that's fair to use a fake name for oak falls because it's not described favorably, favor, favorably, favorably. I wouldn't want those people, right? No, they're terrifying.
Speaker 1:No, no, and and in the real town, like like that environment, like very much exists, like there's, there's I don't know if there's like like hillbilly, sketchy, tweaker trash is frightening. You drive around this area when the sun has set. Chances are you're not going to get out of there. You know with with all four tires or something, you know like it just uh, it's, it's just funny, how just it's not funny. It's really sad. Actually, you know there's a lot of addictions going on and it's unfortunate, but um, and they need time, yeah, so it is a uh it's a made up town and toilet paper.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, world are very real and for the people who are living in it, they're pretty much doing what they have available to them to do to survive. But it doesn't make it a safe place. In fact, it makes it a very unsafe place. So your description of it was very vivid when you were a corpse mover. Was that in Bellingham, washington?
Speaker 1:Yes, I worked at a mortuary and I moved bodies for a funeral home and that was the last job that I had before leaving Bellingham. Up until that point, I was owning and operating a small business and, yeah, that was an interesting time. I wasn't really looking for the work, I just needed some money because, like so many people, you, you know we weren't able to to work during during some crazy times that we had, which seems like not long ago. I guess it's a long time ago. It's 2025, right?
Speaker 3:I don't know I think we're all like yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're all still fate, like processing it um and I didn't have to move corpses so yeah you know it, it was wild like I, I the the job became like a situation where you, you work in twos and you know where you're going and you kind of know what's going on, like you know the age of the person and you know the sex, you know what have you and, uh, you know their address. And then there's like a checkbox or the inside or the outside. If they're inside, are they what room? Is there a second stories or a basement? You know, you don't know, and so we kind of know what's going on and then, but even with that like slip of information, it's never like 100, and so we get in and it's like every day, every job, every situation, every call is, you know, obviously there's like, like, like humans, there's no two alike. You know it's a different situation and we had some, some interesting tools to get the job done. Um, some are.
Speaker 1:I would question, uh, ethics, but I guess whatever you needed to do to to get it, because it's and it's weird, because you have like, unless, which is the case sometimes, uh, the person is alone, you'll have like family members around. You know, like, around the corner I hear them grieving and I gotta like move, papa, mike, or whoever you know like, and then you know, um, there was a time where, like they like, based on the situation where they're laid out, they weren't going to fit through the front door. So I don't. So I'm thinking like, well, how'd they get in? First of all, but it just wasn't going to happen with the tools we had and and we had a basically like, uh, breakout walls to get it done. You know, we had to like, do damage and uh, some of these I I actually went back I haven't read these stories in a while and up until recently, and I was reminded four and a half years ago when I was doing this, when I first started to kind of write the non-essentials of the details. And, yeah, it's just, it's wild to think, even in a small town of Bellingham which, which isn't large, you know, it's like less than a hundred thousand people that people definitely fade out every day, you know, and multiple people day, and, and you know it has to be dealt with, um, as as much as anything else. When it starts piling up, it's just not good.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, the job, I would probably do something like that again. I really didn't have a problem with it. I kind of liked being on call for like 48 hours. And so for like two days I had my phone near me and I just wait for the call. And then, when the call came in, I was expected to meet at hq lickety split and from there we would take a company van um with, uh, upgraded suspension and dually tires, and you know they'd handle the weights and what we were doing to get our asses out there and get it done. You know, and um, I don't know like I actually was thanked for doing it. You know it was weird to to have that, but I guess I was.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize at the time I was providing service in some level, you know, um I mean, it sounds like one of those perfect jobs to have if you want a story to tell after.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it is an essential service. Speaking of the name of your book, the Non-Essentials, and if you want to know what that means, folks, you got to read it. It's got some depth there. But I think it's interesting because I think our society is really death phobic overall. Like Western culture, we don't talk about death. I've certainly like if anybody even says they're a funeral director, everybody looks at them like what, that's your job yeah, is there something wrong with you that you want to be around dead people?
Speaker 3:yeah, and I've been lucky like I've had, um, a lot of relatives die at early ages, but I have not been there for this part of what you're describing, and it's true when I think about it, like I would be grateful to you for what you're doing. It's incredibly intimate, um, and also like very physical and brutal in some ways, what you would have to do. So, um, it's kind of no surprise to me that your main character, who has uh through a series of unfortunate events, is basically forced to do this for, uh, their survival. I won't get into the details, but that they have this fear of death, which it sounds like was not your problem when you were doing this job. What inspired the fear of thanatophobia? Am I saying that right? Fear of death, phobia of death?
Speaker 3:I've heard thanophobia, thanophobia okay but I could be wrong I'm gonna trust you over me. You looked into this what, um?
Speaker 1:what inspired me to write about thanophobia?
Speaker 3:yeah, like to have max be in this position where he has to face the thing that he's most afraid of in the corpse movie.
Speaker 1:You know you kind of hit it on the head when you're kind of talking about, culturally, how people, especially in the States, have like this thing with death. You know they don't want to talk about it like it doesn't exist and everything, and that's just foolish. I mean honestly, that's just silly to even, like, tell someone that at a certain age, sure, when it's appropriate, like anything. And so, moving down to here in Arizona, my partner, they have family down here and hopefully they're not listening, but here it goes, just don't send them the link. They have children that are from what's that? Uh, just don't send the link.
Speaker 3:They have children that are from bus, that just don't send them the link, they will yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So in arizona, um, I have some family down here and they're from, uh, the young generation. They're from like alpha, you know, you can seize, and they are basically like just scared of everything. You know. They're scared of their shadow in a lot of ways. They don't go outside much and and I didn't know if it was like a generational thing or if it's just like environment, because, you know, down here in arizona there are scorpions or snakes, there's prickly fucking things everywhere, you know, know it's hot. I made a mistake a few times grabbing things that I shouldn't have. Um, pro tip, don't grab, um, uh, anything that looks like fruit in the desert.
Speaker 1:They have a razor and like hair thin needles that will stick in, you Like, and it's horrible but um, I spent some time in Arizona when I was in the army and, like the, absolutely it hates you, it hates us, it just wants to just suck us and take us over, you know, but, uh, um, but at the same time I find that kind of now, I I find the desert very beautiful, you know, I really do. I I find there's a um, a very interesting ecosystem that exists within the desert and if you have to look at it with a microscope on levels, you really can appreciate some interesting things about it. But the kids here, they're just really like and and and, max being a younger character, um, you know, I just kind of ran with that. You know, there was, there was a kid that um, her nephew, my partner's nephew.
Speaker 1:He's just, uh, it's a great kid, super smart, and he really is. He's like a wonderful person. But man, he, he, he, just he won't touch a bug, you know, or anything. Just, he's just kind of afraid of it all and um, and he has reasons for it. And I'm not trying to pry on people who have like phobias. Necessarily, it's just more um, having max, having a thanophobia, if anything is, it's more of just having like um, like a little bit of an insight of with the condition of the people who do have fears of lots of things, death included, you know. I mean, I was definitely like I had a different thought about fear until I took ayahuasca seven times, you know, and I knew it basically just run away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like we could have a whole other podcast with ayahuasca now, which I've never said in this podcast that I've done. Ayahuasca I don't think, I don't know, but now I know exactly why. There is that part of your book, zach. Okay, I don't know where to go from here, because now I'm excited. I want to talk about ayahuasca.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you know what I think it's interesting? The fear of death, because it's like one of the fears that you can't avoid, because one day you will die. It's happened to everyone that's ever lived. Whereas if you're afraid of spiders, you can probably mostly avoid spiders if you try hard enough. If you're afraid of clowns, you can avoid that to a certain degree, know, with varying levels of success depending on how uh proactive you are trying to avoid them, but death it's, it's just coming for you it is.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry you've so enthroned me by the ayahuasca thing, and it's one of my favorite topics. I need like a minute to just be like okay, where do we go from here? You did a really good segue there, dan, but hold on. It's literally my favorite thing. Most people have no idea what that is, so we can start talking about trucks. Yeah Well, hold on, Let me, let me uh, you know, you know for real, though.
Speaker 1:like down here, arizona is like truck city man, you know it's and unfortunately, like one of the first time in my one of the few times in my life I actually currently do not own a truck. Like the next thing I need to do is to up my car game because I feel so inadequate without a full size vehicle down here.
Speaker 3:But what are you driving now?
Speaker 1:Making do. What do I want to say? You know, I'll just say it's great gas mileage and it's, you know, environmentally like clean, err and um, is it a chevy? It feels cheap but that's not gonna. No, no, I I don't want to diss the prius too bad. It's actually a wonderful vehicle it is. You know cab drivers have been, you know that's been the car for a long time. For a reason they do great things. But having said that, I really miss a big vehicle. I'm like I need it.
Speaker 3:I'm still excited about ayahuasca, anyways.
Speaker 1:Have you done it? It's so much fun, oh my God, yes.
Speaker 3:That's why, when I read that part of your book I was like this is an ayahuasca vision, I need to ask about it. But OK, you're just going to delete every time. I bring that up until we actually we are going to talk about it, though, I'm just so thrown. The Beast. So Max, your main character, has this suburban that he loves very much, called the Beast, and it is also its own character. I think it's very important to max. I think might be the thing he loves the most in the world other than, um, his light therapy, which we'll also get into. Can you share about, like your like? What was the inspiration for the beast? Did you have a suburban um? Why does it play such a strong role in the book?
Speaker 1:you know, I've had many vehicles uh, I think I'm up to about 14 or 15, which is, you know, is not bad, and more than half of them have been larger vehicles. And out of them I would say I had a GMC Suburban that I loved. I actually lived in it for a while. I would just go out, yeah, I, I just would go out in the woods and I would just kind of just stay there with it and it was just my, my home, my vessel. It protected me, you know, with all the elements and um, so for me that was a uh.
Speaker 1:And then also, while on the road, I just felt like this, this, I mean, I felt I was literally this monster, you know, 222 inch long, v8, you know, five, seven liter, with like tons of steel around. I loved it, you know, I just was like let's go, this feels great. And so I, you know, of course, imagine, like you know, if someone were to have like really afraid of, let's say, auto accidents. You know you probably want a larger vehicle than like a geo metro or something. You know nothing against your metros, auto accidents, you know, you, you probably want a larger vehicle than like a geo metro or something. You know nothing against your metros. I'm, you know they're, but uh, you want something a little more.
Speaker 3:The geo metro smiling and nodding yeah, we'll google later yeah, I, I.
Speaker 1:And in these cars, they um these types of vehicles, they, they, they the reason why the FBI use them, why police use them. Maybe Dan could back me up. I mean, our military have them on different situations.
Speaker 2:I never drove an RV Suburban, but I did own a Suburban. I bought a 2002 Chevy Suburban and it came with a broken transmission so I didn't have third or fourth gear, so I just kind of like drove around really slow but at high rpms so I was just like going through neighborhoods, just like I'm just going all around and everything. Um, and I totally get what you're saying because, like I've owned a lot of cars, like I've owned race cars, I've owned sports cars, and then there's the suburban and I I miss the couch, cushiony, interior, the three rows of seating, like getting in and being like maybe I'll sit in the back today, go all the way back there and feel like I'm riding a school bus absolutely.
Speaker 1:And uh, yeah, they don't make them like that. Oh yeah, you know, um, I I sat in like a, a newer and, uh, suburban, they're beautiful, they're nice, you know, but it, everything, like everything is just getting like too too pretty. Yeah, you know too many things.
Speaker 1:The doors, don't I look at yeah, yeah, um, for me, I'm more like do, uh, the mechanics work first and foremost? You know, that's all I really care about, and then, um, that's, that's really it. After that, everything else is just cosmetic, the way I see it, you know. So I had a. I had a 97 GMC, 1500 suburbanurban, and that too had lots of mechanical issues.
Speaker 2:But you know, with the double doors in the back, yeah, they split. It has to because it became a meat wagon, that's right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's just a fantastic ride. And you know, once you know how to get through the mechanics of them, you can keep them going for a long, long time.
Speaker 3:Unless it has a bad transmission, and then nowhere to work on it.
Speaker 1:So was your suburban called the beast? No, no, um, it was at times called uh, you know, I mean it was in and out of the shop for a long time. So you know, when I, when I was able to get it going, I would, I would take it out and enjoy, ride it and take it on these long trips and ventures. Um, it was never called the beast, it was called just uh, I think I used the whip a lot, you know, I just like kind of like that and uh, um, at times it was called home.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought my brother called mine the uh monster, the green monster. My brother did not share the same affection for it that I did what did you use yours, for it became my primary vehicle after my Chevy Aveo exploded, so I just I remember driving it home. I bought it for $1,000 and when?
Speaker 2:I drove it home yeah, I realized just how broken it was when I couldn't get over 45 miles an hour on the highway and I'm just like it's just going to take extra long to get home, and the whole time I thought it was going to overheat and just melt down, but it didn't.
Speaker 3:Besides the transmission, it was bulletproof yeah, I think when we listened to your pitch on the podcast and decided to have you on the beast right yeah, I was like I have to we have to talk to zach about, about the beast.
Speaker 3:That was like the first thing that really got us um. And then it's transformation to the meat wagon, and meat wagon, if folks have not picked it up yet, is about a corpse corpses in the, in the um the truck, and it was just a really interesting story to like see max get so emotional I think the most emotional about the death of the beast. I'm obviously quite a death, but not doing so well, right, and the betrayal. There's a betrayal that happens. The beast betrays him and I can't say more than that. But I don't know, um, I'm not a car person so I could feel the love. But I'm just curious, like you obviously had a love for your suburban, you it sounds like you didn't have to use yours as a uh, corpse mover, though, right, you had a van correct.
Speaker 1:yeah, there was a uh, an authorized, like company van that was licensed to do such thing. But yeah, I did love my vehicle. It's a fantastic one and, like I mentioned, I'll probably pick up another one at some point. I think I kind of have to.
Speaker 3:Are you going to call it Especially, being down here in?
Speaker 1:Phoenix.
Speaker 3:You have to name it the meat wagon, then you have to.
Speaker 1:I think it's that. It is the meat wagon, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's some other really interesting antagonists. Is that the word I'm looking for? The evil guys? Yeah, you have some very fun evil guys in your book. Um, one of them's a funeral director, one of them's a sheriff, and I'm curious if you've had bad experiences with either. And this is like a is this a vendetta against the funeral director or or some cops out there? Zach?
Speaker 1:You know, I've had a run in with the law once or twice in my day. Um, I, I, I legitimately was um in a high speed chase with police behind me, inside a 1981 Toyota 4Runner with a off-road kit, basically, and I was 17 and a half years old, oh no, and I had a car full of my friends and we were just romping around outside and all of a sudden there's cherries and berries in my rearview mirror and they're approaching us, and it's the middle of the night and pretty sure some reefers involved.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I yeah, I just I booked it and then I I actually got away. I, I, I, I outran the cops until I I parked the car at my buddy's house, I got out and then somehow, some miracle, lucky fucks came right down and they just spot me and then they identified my car because it's just full of mud and uh, I couldn't lie my way out of it if I tried. I did try, but it didn't work.
Speaker 1:and I was cuffed and luckily I was a minor yeah, that 17 and a half was good for you, yeah, um, you know it was no harm done really, I think I just like it was a grassy field, I wasn't even in a park, it was like an undeveloped lot and I think, you know, I got a, you got kind of a slap on the wrist, um, but I did lose my license for a little while. Um, and then, uh, as far as a funeral home director, uh, the one I worked for was actually really nice, um, he was a great guy, he had a fantastic, um view of the world and I I think it's probably because of his environment kind of conditioned him to to be there. Like dan was saying, you know earlier, uh, we're all gonna die, buddy, you know, sorry, you're not a snowflake, you're going to melt, we're all going to. You know, just get over it and just enjoy yourself and then just see this job as just, you know, a necessary thing. And he took his job very seriously. He did it really well and I was lucky enough that he hired me.
Speaker 1:You know it was the peak of the pandemic and like no one was hiring and I just kind of gave him my little sob story like listen, dude, I really need to make some money and I think I can do this, like I had the stomach for it. Seriously, let's do it and uh. So he just kind of did me like a solid and got me on the next day and we kind of worked as a week by week. You know basis, just kind of see, I guess the turnover rate was really high and they're just getting frustrated with that and so.
Speaker 1:But I thought I stuck around and I wouldn't want from the guy and uh, so in in the non-essentials, uh, jim is the funeral director and my guy, my experience was nothing like that. It could be further from the uh, the opposite side of the spectrum, you know, and uh. But but the evans and the sheriff and the one who got me, that's about on par with anything. I can kind of get back to that a little bit. But um, was their name evans? I mean, I have no idea what their name was. I have no idea.
Speaker 3:But it was probably evans, but the chances are, yeah, let's just call it yeah it's really fun to hear the backstory behind um some of the inspiration of this book, without giving folks spoilers, like if you're enjoying zach's stories, you will really enjoy this book, because it is. I think you said that somebody said it was like an adrenaline-packed ride and your life sounds a little bit like that all by itself. But the book itself is too Like I just once we started we didn't really want to stop and because I had to read it out loud to Dan there a few times where I just started to read ahead and then I was like, oh fuck, I got to go back for this guy and we actually finished it on our drive home from canada.
Speaker 2:Um is when I read the last half an hour to you out loud so I uh, it kind of makes me want to be a corpse mover. You can still shift to that career, dan. Sounds like a pretty good gig it sounds.
Speaker 3:It sounds like a choice. What made you stop being a corpse mover?
Speaker 1:I had to, um, get out of bellingham and we made a decision of moving to Arizona and basically I just didn't see, the business I was working downtown had to close and I was able to finally work out an agreement where we can deal with a five-year contract and the money that I owed for breaking a, an air, you know, a lease basically, and and that was kind of them you know they didn't have to do that, of course, but it was. It was we were already kind of like talking about taking off and then that happened and then we were just kind of stuck, like everyone's kind of stuck in place for a while and then, um, so she has my dad, has family in Arizona, so we just drove down on a weekend on a whim and, like her best friend, um has the best in my not not really even my opinion, it's just like a fact down here, the arcade in the valley and at the time it was just a small little thing, it was just a few machines, but now it's become this amazing.
Speaker 1:Um, electric bat is the the name of it, and I recommend anyone coming to the valley I'm going to plug them because they're amazing to check out the electric bat. They're really great um, but they were operational. So I I went from like an environment where an entire city, town, you know, everything is just closed, closed, and they're operating. Now they have masks and they have like PPE gear and people are in gloves, you know, but they were opening. I was like I couldn't believe it as a business owner.
Speaker 2:I'm like what's going on?
Speaker 1:They're like, oh yeah, we were. You know, we're just doing our thing. I'm like, whoa well, I want to work and so we just we had family connection down here and I'm digging the weather and, um, it happened to be, like you know, at the time property was affordable in this desert, barren land, you know, um, so we just jumped on it basically and then, honestly, it was the best smart decision of my life in a lot of ways, because being down here, um, it launched a new path. It gave me um, you know, there's definitely like a little bit of isolation that you can feel in the valley because it is so big and a lot of people have a lot of personal space and unlike, let's say, um, like new york city, where there's many people per square mile living in, you know, close proximity and business is very tight and people are living up and above. Down. The valley is the opposite. We have so much land here that this valley is so big that you know everyone's. Basically, you get an acre and you get an acre. You know it's just like like Oprah down here and giving it out land and like, um, which is cool, but you have that space, and what it's done for me is that it's it's it's forced me to kind of just live in a little bit of isolation and focus on this craft of writing which requires so much fucking focus. It really does.
Speaker 1:And I'll be honest like I, I like to move around. You know, um, I have a background in field production, working around a lot of people, and it's like high energy, go, go, go go kind of mentality day in, day out of production, especially in episodic television. Um, it's nuts, and this is very much different. But I, I like this pace, it it uh, for one, I don't. It's pandemic proof. So if there's anything to come through again, I don't have, um, any reason to not do what I'm still doing and I love how very few people are needed to to complete the, the craft which would be a novel in this case, and, um, the cost of doing such thing, um, I am, um, uh, it it's. It's 100 times cheaper than than basically putting on a production. You know, whatever the math is, it's tremendously less and um, I like that. And then, over the the years of working with it, I found the right tools to create these beautiful books at home. So I'm self-published and I, I like being self-published and the fact that I have a lot of creative flex, um, and as long as I have and I have since then picked up the right software to complete these things on a professional level I feel like the, the final output these days, um, there's no difference in the self-published world if they're able to keep that bar really high and keep at it and just keep that standard of what a book is.
Speaker 1:Because I there's one thing I didn't like in the film industries, in the sense that I mean I worked on a lot of them, created a lot, as well as the film industry, but the indie film industry specifically. I love indie film, of course, but there still needs to be a certain bar that needs to hit. Otherwise I feel like you're kind of acting like a um, you're misrepresenting the art on some level. You know, um, the quality needs to be there, and in the film world that would be something like you know catching, like a bad breaking. You know a junk cut or a 1080 rule that doesn't make sense. You know less is for, like, artistic expression.
Speaker 1:I suppose then you could do that, but, um, there's just basic rules, and then we talked earlier about the writing. Has that as well, where each sentence should be looked at as if it were your last, so to speak, and it should be, you know, near perfect, and then have your voice and be original and everything else, with no errors and um, anyway, being down here in arizona has um, well, we're talking. Now I'm in my office and I have my own space because in the desert, land is cheap and you could have that space to kind of just because you need that when you write, you need a place to go to where you can shut the door and just shut up everything around you, turn off your devices and just get into the story. You have to everything around you, turn off your devices and just get into the story. You have to. There's no way to to do it and, um, while approaching it and going into it, just um surface value. You have to go deep inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that takes so much energy I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 3:You know there's a lot of you've given a lot of great logistical reasons why storytelling via writing is right for you. I'm curious what else compels you specifically to tell stories or to write your stories?
Speaker 1:Other things that would compel. I look at travel as an investment and have for a very long time. So, instead of putting piles of money into a 401k that I can cash out, so to speak, money into a 401k that I can cash out, so to speak, um, I, I invest that in myself and I, I, I constantly with my, with my partner, we, we seek Adventure. Um, I think stories are all around us. They don't um, they are, you know, immediately around us, but also there's greater stories beyond us, and I find that when I go out of my comfort zone, I, I go to a different country, for example, or travel to different places. For one, it's nice to actually be surrounded by people who aren't speaking the same language. In a lot of ways, you can focus on their mannerisms in ways that you can't with language interrupting, because you know what they're talking about. And so, while traveling, it's about moving around and finding these little stories and writing them down. That's important.
Speaker 1:Probably the single most important thing when traveling is to write every day and to never put a filter on your writing, want to just, um, be as intimate and personal as you possibly can within that moment, to be authentic as possible, um, if it feels forced, it will. If it is forced, it will read force and so on. And um, I guess, just to not to be afraid with it. You know, you just want to just just do it. You know just. There's a great saying, a mastermind said it, I forget which, uh, don't think right. You know simple advice, but it's so true. Um, and in the valley I get a not think as much. I don't have as many connections down here. I don't know as many people you know.
Speaker 1:I'll be 41 in february and happy almost birthday before you thanks and um, so, um, in the past I've I have lived a kind of a nutty life. You know I I'm very social, go out a lot. You know I've, um, my ex wife had a club that was just bonkers in Portland Oregon and um, you know, just, I owned like ATM machines and strip clubs and uh, I don't know, I just did some weird and um, because I haven't really I don't really know, the last time I worked a like a 40-hour work week, I guess I was like probably like 22, when I was really really tied down. Because I know, the last time I worked a like a 40-hour work week, I guess I was like probably like 22, when I was really really tied down, because I know the, the moving body thing, it didn't feel like a 40-hour work week, which I loved. I was just on call. You know I get a couple calls and stuff, but uh, I've, I've made it a point to, to, to not go down that path as much as I can.
Speaker 1:I dabbled here and there and I had to work at times, of course, but uh, um, yeah, it's just, uh, the story is stories all around us. You just have to go in to grab it and um, you know, I've been actually working on a lot of, uh, these kind of like meditation practices I guess you could call it in a way to kind of just um, go back into the past and to try to really like, um, uncover things that have happened. Um, I was visiting my grand folks a couple of years ago. They're quite old but they have like an amazing photo library and I suggest everyone do this, of course, and just to go check out some of these old photos, if you have them around, and just to be reminded of these things that happened.
Speaker 1:And again, if you can turn that into like a story or to to to words on page, then maybe there's something there, um, and at the same time, um, you know these experiences and these photographs of your past. You've obviously, like, lived through that moment, so these things do live with you. Um, sometimes you just need to be jumpstarted and have a good reason to resurface these things and you'll be surprised how many things to remember and how many stories you could probably kind of come up with creatively. You know to back up or not back up. You know kind of write about what you know at times and make up the rest, you know so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it sounds like you really are compelled I think that that is the right word for you with storytelling, because I agree, there's story everywhere, if anything like what is human, like what are humans. I think we're basically just storytellers in different ways, but not everybody is like you and like dan and like the other authors that are on this podcast are just out there producing, like there's something inherent that I like.
Speaker 2:If you were not writing, you would be creating a story in another way, I think yeah, there's like, there's people that I talk to that are just like yeah, I don't want to tell stories.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to make art. Well, stories are art. I shouldn't say that I want to make visual.
Speaker 2:I like to paint, I like to work with clay. And there's a story there. I have no compulsion to tell a story or create which I find boggling to the mind.
Speaker 3:I can't even imagine it well, think about it like music. I don't know if, um, I have a feeling you might be musically inclined as well, zach just random guests, but I, I have no musical talent, but I love, like, I love music. I'm grateful people make it because I I enjoy it, and I think we need the storytellers in the world to tell the stories that, um, like what you told with the non-essentials, because people will pull from it the things that are meaningful to them and they make helps people make sense of the world, I think. But there's the, there's you out there writing it, and then there's people like me who just like to read it, and I'm always intrigued by, like, the psychology of the teller no, it's, that's how it should be a give and take.
Speaker 1:You know, you said it. Storytelling is basically as old as humankind. You know, that's what basically separates us from animal. You know, there are other things, but a big difference that we are able to tell specific story, and these stories have changed over the years whether, if it was surviving, stories that you could pass on the next generation, like don't eat this plant, it will kill you. You know, to um passing on weapon information, um agriculture later on and all these wonderful things that it literally comes from.
Speaker 1:Language is that. And then, as we've um, understand more of that with time and become greater storytellers, and then you can start having some real fun with it and have like lessons learned and morals and characters and all that good stuff, the tragedy and love and um, yeah, we are humans, we are wired for story. Either we are wired to create it or to to, to consume it, to enjoy it. You know our, our soul needs it either way. I don't know you guys, have you guys met you're right, have you met anyone that were like I don't like a story, I don't like a movie, I don't like a game?
Speaker 2:no, I mean, yeah, I don't like, I don't, I don't, I don't like stories they've done lots of.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm not one I don't get.
Speaker 3:I'm not one that believes that science is the only way to know things, but there have been lots of studies that really show that the best way to learn is through storytelling. Like telling people a bunch of facts I could spit off some statistics all day about a thing, but if I create a story with stakes and a real character and like a sense of what matters here, people care. That's just that's how we're wired and actually I've got to give you kudos, zach, because I know here is a lot different between humans and other kinds of animals I consider as an animal. But you actually hit on one thing that I think is distinct, which is our storytelling function, because other animals can have culture, which involves some level of story and transfer of knowledge. Other animals can count, other animals have language.
Speaker 3:But you're right, nobody else as far as I know, I mean, I guess I haven't asked a dolphin directly. Do you tell stories to your children? But I don't think they do so. Thanks for that, because that's literally the first time I've heard someone say something that I was like I agree, that is different. I think dolphins do tell stories.
Speaker 2:They could, I mean I played Echo the on sega genesis and I think, I think they do that I mean speaking of of um plant medicine and ayahuasca that you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3:There's um. How did ayahuasca come to be? It's because the plants talk to the people, so maybe they're telling stories in a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we just haven't heard any.
Speaker 3:That's all that's possible, but either way, I like it. I like this. Uh hypothesis.
Speaker 2:You have zach can you tell us about the toilet paper in your book? Let me let me say that again without laughing. It's. It's just that it was so played up that I was just like okay, I'll ask this question, tell us about the toilet paper um I think that's it.
Speaker 3:You got to put it exactly like that.
Speaker 1:Tell us about the toilet paper tell us about the toilet paper yeah, exactly, um, the, uh, yeah, the, the, tp, uh, so, okay, so in the non-essentials, uh, max wakes up and it's just bonkers outside and it takes forever to get to his clinic, which is a light therapy business called brighter days, and while he's in a session, his best friend, carter, pounds at the door and he gets to it and basically his buddy tells him like what's going on and this and that, and here's the news, check it out for yourself. And it's true, everything's just fucking crazy. And with that there's lots of of, of, of all the stores are are basically shelves are empty, and so they need to stock up on essentials. And carter suggests that he knows just the thing and where to go to get it. And his is, uh, an idea of a paper mill, the anderson paper mill, and specifically there's toilet paper at this mill that he that he knows about, but it's many miles away and it may or may not be guarded and there may or may not be a fence that they had to get through with the beasts, and, uh, it may or may not be guarded and there may or may not be a fence that they had to get through with the beasts, and, uh, it may or may not be very easy, but they decided to do it and they do it and the paper is it's like a it it's a, it's a piece of uh, the story, that kind of like it. It comes in strong and then it it, it I don't without breaking too much of the taking too much away. It comes in strong and then it, it, it, it, I don't without breaking too much of the taking too much away.
Speaker 1:It comes back later with, with, with significance, and in book two we talk more about that and why they did that. We kind of dabble about it. But Carter, talking about the political paper, believes that this will be the currency of the future. I believe there's even like a moment where you know money is even offered in exchange and type of thing and basically it the way it's going down in this world. Um, this doomsday kind of scenario uh, money's and you need to get some, some t and that could be used as a service for you know barter trading for other goods and yeah, so they, they have it and and it turns out that other people want it as well. And it turns out that there was even some like other reasons why than just what the immediate reason could be for people wanting to have it end up and that sounds weird. But I can't really say any more about it without like spoiling things for you, unfortunately. But I hope that's enough toilet paper talk. Is there anything specific? Anything else you want to hear about it?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it was another one of those moments where I was like this is definitely pandemic inspired and so relatable, but also like when carter says to max, like we need to get toilet paper, I also was like what it's definitely the biggest surprise of the pandemic.
Speaker 3:That like that toilet paper was the thing. Yeah, so I really just enjoyed that. You made that a main um I don't know if theme is the word, but just like a big part of your story was the toilet paper and what it says about people, but also that this toilet paper is special. Um, it's not magical folks, but there's something else going on with it that I can't tell you, so you should just read the book if you haven't yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say. One more thing about the toilet paper is that it did become like a thing of the pandemic right, and I guess with the entire book, you know, since the writing took place during that time or after that time, you know during the time really. And you know it's like kind of like the writer's responsibility in some way to kind of like document things that happen all around us, you know, to write it down and put it in a timely matter where in the future. Um, these little details will be probably not remembered on a grand scheme, but if you're able to keep adding these little things that did happen during a time and then kind of twist it into your own little thing story, this is, and then that's a nice way of kind of preserving the, the past as it is.
Speaker 1:You know, um, I remember like there was a uh like this uh artist in bellingham and they painted this, their latest creation. They're kind of well known in the town for doing it and it was just a 10 foot by 10 foot canvas square toilet paper and that was their project they've been working on and I just thought that was great. A buddy of mine picked it up. I want to see that. Yeah, I had a a a book event in Bellingham and I actually was like passing out like my own version of Anderson toilet paper to people while doing a book signing specifically and it's kind of playing out a little bit. And you know, I had these props out and obviously they are like triggers of the pandemic and so not everyone really like too hip on the idea I had like this triangling formed roll of toilet paper and some other things like sunshine's magic aloe, right and um, aloe and toilet paper. I think I like I piss people off, unfortunately, but you know if you can't take a dark joke, I don't know like are people still too?
Speaker 3:scarred from the experience. Like what was their reaction I think that was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was maybe for a lot of people. You know, too soon. You know they were like we were out of.
Speaker 2:We were out of toilet paper for two months.
Speaker 3:How dare I don't believe anyone was out of toilet paper. If anything, that a whole experience when you realize that we don't use that much toilet paper. And people were really like losing their shit both literally and figuratively with the toilet paper thing. Yeah, it was just. I would have laughed.
Speaker 1:We were the right audience good, yeah, no hit or miss. You know, some people just can't take a a joke, I guess, but uh, yeah, it was people were taking unnecessary amounts of tp during that time.
Speaker 1:You know, there's there's images all over the internet about that and, um, you know that causes like chaos. You know, don't storm your store and just like just sort of loot it. You know, just take in everything you can. You know, just just be rational here. Um, you know, I'm curious how we're going to react when the next one happens.
Speaker 3:Basically, you know what you learn from these mistakes or whatever I don't know, based on human history, I don't know that we're very good at learning from our mistakes. There's a lot of stuff that repeats in ways that I'm just like. Some of us seem to figure it out, but not the people with power. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Or maybe they have, I guess, the toilet paper thing is everybody.
Speaker 3:That's true, but I would like to think that people just have a good supply of toilet paper in the house now yeah or bidets that's true. We actually. When I got a raise for work, I got myself, I got us a bidet. That was my like present to us. I'll never go back, never, no, no, we're never going back. We just need electricity. If that goes out in the pandemic, we're fucked, we'll fire up the generator to make the days run okay perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good use of human.
Speaker 3:I love it so now we're coming up towards the end of our time with you, zach, and I'm curious if you could share with us, just um, what was the most challenging part of writing this for you, like, were there any scenes or themes that you most struggled with? Or? Or you could share this like what you're most proud of from this book. Either way, Right.
Speaker 1:So I guess one of the most challenging things writing the book was to make sure that I mean, although there are influences that definitely with my life and people around me have influenced, they made it into the book in some way. I had to always make sure it was just different. Where you want to go into that fiction world a bit, you can amplify things. When comedians on stage tell jokes, you know they have a talking about situations that happened to them, right, but that's, that's turned up, you know, and they make it into a good, a great delivery and they have, they finesse that and and writing is a lot, basically the same thing, and but, but you don't want to kind of cross the line and, like we mentioned, you know, not mentioning certain towns and things like that or you know names, you don't want to just exploit people too. That's not cool, yeah, so it's. It's a bit of like a balance, you know, um, and at least on this, on this project now in book two, it goes so far that I mean I hope this is not a reality we have to deal with. Basically, you know, I mean in book one it's like, oh yeah, like these things could happen and have happened and there's some um other magical I guess not really magic, but you know um nightmares, things that do happen later on, but uh, for the most part you know it could very much be a um.
Speaker 1:You know a piece of journalism with a, with a manic writer. You know the narrator, max, right with the condition, and that's also a way to kind of like look and how to get into that and that story from from, from, from beginning to end. So I have my stories and then eventually, when I'm getting into it, I'm no longer me. I'm actually max and I know everything about max and I'm writing the world that I know, but through max's eyes, if that makes sense, and and that's how you need to get through it.
Speaker 1:And then, and that's the and it's challenging to to be in that mindset for two and a half years in and out, you know like the crazy, you know you just you're just like what is this? But you have to, you have to do it and um, I I just love it, I really do, I really enjoy it and um, I I feel like I had enough layers of personal things that happened, whether it be like a vehicle or a location or things like that that made it through. But so much of it is obviously just it. Just it's fiction. It's a book, guys, right you know? And um yeah, oh, and in book two, uh, we're no longer only in Max's world.
Speaker 1:Oh interesting In book two. I'm really happy to say that we go through the world through the eyes of Jim, and Jim was a treat to write, to write a raging psychopath and to get inside that head, no longer this thanophobia guy. Personally, I I made the decision because I was okay. You know I can only deal with so much of this nervous shit, you know. But uh, I I gotta mix it up and I actually being like the best decision because I I I really enjoyed going back and forth with these two characters, right, and yeah it's, it's been really fun talking to you guys about this.
Speaker 1:I people ask you know family and stuff, you know how's writing and but but? And they and they support, but very few have would want to like deep dive. I think very few. A lot of people like just like story and you like the movie. But there's a difference between like liking and a passion. You know you guys have a passion. We have a passion when we're passionate, people talking about things we're passionate about it's, it's fun. You know you can kind of talk about things that we can relate to without other people maybe looking at us like whoa, you smoke, you know yeah, yeah, probably because I'm smoking something at the time.
Speaker 3:this is also true. But yeah, I really enjoyed talking to you and I agree with you. I I actually find it always hard to end these conversations because I have so many more questions than we have time for, and also there's the ones that I'm like this is definitely a spoiler question, so we're just going to not ask that one, but we really enjoyed your book. Where can people find you and the non-essentials and the non-essentials called the non-essentials to coming out?
Speaker 1:Correct. Yeah, the Non-Essentials is currently available on all sorts of online stores through Amazon, barnes, noble in-person and available at Village Books in Bellingham, their beautiful bookstore. You can find the links to the books on my website at ZacharyMartinBrowncom, and book two will also be available on the site on the same amazon, barnes and noble village book platforms.
Speaker 3:Uh, soon assuming they exist let's, they'll exist next month, okay, and there's, you have a website, right? No, it's your website yeah, it's just uh, zacharymartinbrowncom okay, great, maybe you already said that and my brain missed it. That's also very possible. Well, it was a pleasure. Is there any final words you have for the folks that either have or are about to read your book before we finish today?
Speaker 1:Just feel free to reach out. If you do pick up a copy and you have questions about it, I'm available if you want to, you know, chat or discuss anything. Um, I had a another book club read the non-essentials and we had a lovely discussion afterwards, which was nice, so. So, if there's anyone out there wants to do that um and uh, and if you did pick up a copy and you like it, if you did pick up a copy and you like it, thanks for supporting indie authors.
Speaker 1:It's a tough gig and people who reach out and support it means the world and, like this show, they give back and they give these writers and creators a spotlight for a moment, these writers and creators a spotlight for a moment. And I also encourage you to check out the zombie book club podcast. And thanks again, leah and Dan for having me on and from the beginning, from the elevator pitch, thanks for just blasting it. You know that was some months ago and I'm glad we were able to come full circle and just have a chit chat. I would appreciate it so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for coming on and contacting us in the first place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really been a pleasure to have this conversation and, folks, if you've not gone and gotten that on essentials yet, now's the time. And if you've already read it, if you've, have you written a review? Because I've heard reviews are really important, especially for indie authors. So get out there, write your reviews, either for Zach or another book that you liked recently. I've heard tell that you don't have to choose.
Speaker 2:Just write a review. Spend an afternoon Just write a whole bunch of reviews.
Speaker 3:Give some love to the authors of the world. Have a good day everybody. Thank you so much for being with us, zach.
Speaker 1:Thanks again, see you soon.
Speaker 2:Wow, leah, being with us. Zach, thanks again. See you soon. Wow, leo, what a great, uh great great episode with zach. Yeah, that was really fun. Yeah, we, you know what, zach, I feel like we could talk for another hour or two with zach, yeah, about anything really about drugs. We could talk about drugs.
Speaker 3:that's what I want. You want to talk with zach about cars and writing Specifically Suburbans and I was like let's share drug stories. And then I realized we need to not do that.
Speaker 2:And then I wanted to do drugs in a Suburban.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then I said no, thank you.
Speaker 2:I pitched my idea for my new show. It's like comedians in cars getting coffee, but it's doing ayahuasca in a Suburban and Leah did not like that. No, instead of sacrilegious.
Speaker 3:It is. It's very disrespectful to the plant medicine and all of the curanderos who have been carrying that lineage of healing.
Speaker 2:But you know what, I haven't taken it yet, so I guess I don't have the reverence required to have the full appreciation for it.
Speaker 3:I'm going to not talk about it, because if I start, we'll never end this podcast.
Speaker 2:Just know it's one of my other favorite topics. Folks, yeah, who wants to talk to Leah about ayahuasca? I do. Leah has a book about ayahuasca under the coffee table. I do. I should read it.
Speaker 3:I have not written it, to be clear, no, but I have many books about it.
Speaker 2:Leah has not written a book about ayahuasca. And what does?
Speaker 3:this have to do with the non-essentials by Z Martin Brown. There is a section in it that is a little reminiscent of an ayahuasca vision, so I'll just say that if you read it, you can find that Easter egg the key word that you'll be looking for when you know it started officially, is polar bear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the safe word, polar bear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually, that was another great part of our our episode pre-game with uh zach, because we decided on a safe word which we all never used, which was banana fan yeah, it's a combination of banana and elephant, if you can imagine that yeah, because I suggested elephant dan said banana.
Speaker 3:What a weird outro this is this is, but I think it's inspired by a great and very creative conversation with our new friend, zach. So thanks, zag, for being a, for being a ZomBestie. It was really great. Hope to talk to you soon. Everybody, go check out ZacharyMartinBrowncom. Go get the non-essentials and the non-essentials too, which, if it's not out when this episode comes out, it will be out very shortly, so stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the links for that will be in the description. If you can't remember ZachMartinBrowncom, did I say it right? I'm.
Speaker 3:Googling it right now to be sure.
Speaker 2:Anyways, thanks everybody for joining us on the Zombie Book Club. It means the world to us that you are listening and that you enjoy zombie books from all of the people that we love. Now our new authors on besties that write amazing things thanks everybody for joining us.
Speaker 3:As always, you can support us by leaving a rating or a review, including uh. You can make a review of us on your instagram stories and we will share it and save it to make ourselves feel good about ourselves.
Speaker 2:So that's great, makes us feel great about ourselves.
Speaker 2:It does let us know that we matter yeah, you can send us a voicemail on our Google voicemail box Up to three minutes at 6146-99006. You can also send us an elevator pitch, like Zach did ever so long ago. And that's how we found out about his book. Yeah, because he pitched it to us and he said that there was a suburban in it named the beast, and uh, immediately I was like, okay, we have to read this now, uh. But you can also follow us on instagram. That's the best place to find us, tbh at zombie book club podcast. Or you can join the brain munchers collective on discord, which is also a place that we spend a lot of time. All of those links are in the description down below somewhere, and you can click on them and go to those places.
Speaker 3:Might sound crazy, but the end is near. Baby, bye-bye-bye, it's gonna be stuck in my head all day.
