Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
The Myth of Rugged Individuality in the Zombie Apocalypse | Zombie Book Club Ep 74
In this episode of Zombie Book Club, Leah and Dan dissect the allure of rugged individualism within zombie narratives, questioning whether it's merely a trope or a reflection of deeper societal beliefs. They explore characters like Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead and Robert Neville from I Am Legend, illustrating how these figures, despite their solitary facades, ultimately depend on community for survival. We emphasize the critical role of collective action in overcoming both fictional apocalyptic scenarios and contemporary challenges.
The discussion extends to healthcare disparities and corporate malfeasance, highlighted by the controversial actions of UnitedHealthcare's late CEO, Brian Thompson. Through satire and critical analysis, Leah and Dan underscore the systemic inequalities perpetuated by corporate greed, advocating for a healthcare system that values human lives over profits. By examining both fictional and real-life examples, they advocate for the necessity of solidarity and mutual aid, concluding that true resilience—whether against zombies or societal issues—emerges from communal support and collaboration.
- Topics Discussed:
- Rugged Individualism:
- Article: Rugged American Individualism is a Myth, and It’s Killing Us
- Wikipedia: Rugged Individualism
- Healthcare Inequality and Assassination of Brian Thompson:
- Soulardarity:
- Website: https://www.soulardarity.com/
- Rugged Individualism:
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Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is an individual, and that individual is quite rugged. But they're also crushed under the weight of doing everything on their own.
Speaker 2:Sounds like everybody. I know Every individual.
Speaker 1:I'm being crushed under the weight. I'm Dan, and when I'm not enjoying a world where cooperation makes difficult tasks much easier, I'm writing a book in a world where working together is the only way to survive the zombie apocalypse.
Speaker 2:I kind of like that part. Yeah, the last part, not the first part. Oh, I'm Leah and I am blank.
Speaker 1:You were supposed to fill that part out in our notes.
Speaker 2:Right, but I have no idea what we're talking about today, because Dan planned this episode and I'm currently living the dystopian nightmare, already even before the administration change in January, since the US presidential election results, which are already making the life of grassroots environmental justice partners that I work with, and these are folks who are, like I don't know, advocating for more solar, advocating for less pollution, advocating for their communities to have, I don't know, a regular amount of cancer, not a disproportionate I think they are yeah, all of them have now been labeled as extremist.
Speaker 2:Um, so that's, that's what I'm dealing with just like al-qaeda basically, yes, I don't want to uh have a higher percentage chance of getting cancer than other communities. That makes me extremist.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I would like to harness the sun for power, also extremist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds like something that an extremist would say Definitely. I mean, you know, harnessing the sun for power. Anyone could do that. That's dangerous Leah. That that's dangerous leah.
Speaker 2:Uh, today we're gonna talk about the myth of rugged individuality in the zombie apocalypse. Oh, that's exciting. I had no idea. I got a clue from your intro, but I genuinely didn't know what we're doing.
Speaker 1:We're talking about rugged individuality, um, but uh, we release episodes every sunday, so subscribe subscribe that's. That's how it's spelled in our notes welcome back new folks.
Speaker 2:I think that's welcome back new news welcome back new folks. This is gonna be a fun episode today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my brain's a little bit tired um, well, I I was trying to say that this is a casual dead episode for those who are new, which means that dan and I are a little more off the cuff, and I'm especially. I'm not even on a cuff anymore. I don't know where I am off the cuff. I'm off of it completely. There's no cuff. I'm tired, my brain is just cuffless, very mushy and, um, what we do in casual deads is allow for a little more mushiness and wildness. So, uh, if you're more into a typical zombie book club experience, as an intro you should listen to last week's episode with oh, polymorphously, yeah, yeah, and their book the zombie re-erection.
Speaker 2:it was a great episode, but if you're in for chaos and le complaining, then this is the episode for you. Possibly you complaining, I have no idea. Oh, there might be some complaints.
Speaker 1:Okay, leah, life updates. We have life updates.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what have you been working on that's not zombie related? I've been working on an art project for Joe Salazar.
Speaker 1:Oh then, it is zombie related. It is zombie related. Yes, I it is zombie related. Yes, I'm not showing it off to anyone just yet, but keep an eye out on Joe Salazar if you want to know what that is. It's a 3D art project, so I'm utilizing my 3D skills.
Speaker 2:And for anybody listening for the first time, Joe Salazar is the author of one of our favorite books of the year, the author of the Dead Weight. You should go read it.
Speaker 1:It's available on audiobook and physical copy and I think also kindle, pretty sure probably on kindle, I got to imagine most, most people put things on kindle. How have you been making this art project, dan? Um, I'm utilizing my 3d art skills, uh, my 2d art skills, and photoshop. Uh, you know, I'm just I'm just doing my best. Dan is a multi-talented individual. I've got some talents. Also, I've prepared something because I wanted to talk about something that happened in the news recently, something that people might have heard about. I just prepared this little statement.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what's happening, so you listeners are in the same boat as me right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, in light of the assassination of the united healthcare ceo, brian thompson, I would like to say that, out of respect, uh, we offer our thoughts and prayers. Just kidding, I'm gonna roast him. A man gunned down, the CEO of United Healthcare, with bullets that said Deny, depose and Defend written on them, and it's unbelievable. I'm shocked Shocked that United Healthcare didn't hire this guy to be their next CEO. This wasn't an assassination, it was a fucking performance review. Honestly though, I think the gunman fucked up. He should have just crippled the guy.
Speaker 1:Imagine Brian Thompson stuck in a hospital, blowing his entire fortune just to shit in a bag for the rest of his life. That would have been justice. Could you imagine the conversation in ICU? Sir, I'm so glad that you survived the assassination attempt and wish you a speedy recovery. However, morphine and ventilators are considered unnecessary expenses at this point. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. Unitedhealthcare probably tried to deny Brian Thompson's estate for the ride to the morgue. Like sorry, mr Thompson, death falls under outpatient care. Next time, consider dying on site for better rates. I can't wait for somebody to mark Brian Thompson's grave as a public bathroom on Google Maps.
Speaker 1:Ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha. Okay, back to reality, though. People like him get special treatment. They would find a way to justify some experimental treatment that reverses gunshot wounds by implanting the bullets into a child with lymphoma or something, and it would all be covered in network. The wealthy class have special rules and the rest of us live under the four Ds Deny, depose, defend and suck my fucking dick, poor people.
Speaker 1:That's the fourth d oh, suck my dick and he might be thinking he didn't deserve what happened to him. He was just doing his job, looking out for the interests of the shareholders. He was a good man with a family and I call bullshit on that one. He was as slimy as they come in february 2024. This is just the one thing that I found okay in a in a brief google search.
Speaker 1:United healthcare was the victim of a cyber attack during an acquisition of change healthcare networks. You know, to make a monopoly, of course. Course they're being investigated for antitrust. Did he inform his shareholders of the cyber attack? No, of course not. They kept it a secret and sold off a hundred million dollars worth of shares over the weekend. Whoa. The stock price dropped over $27 a share. His only job was to make money for the shareholders and instead of doing that, he decided to dump the entire stock to save himself.
Speaker 1:That's who Brian Thompson really is A greasy, slimy scumbag. So yeah, am I glad that he was assassinated? You bet this guy belongs to the wealthy class, the elite Comeback. So yeah, am I glad that he was assassinated? You bet this guy belongs to the wealthy class, the elite, not even the 1%. He was in the 0.1% who owed about 25% of all the wealth in the US, while the bottom 50%, which is us peasants the remaining 300 million of us have about 2% of the wealth in this country.
Speaker 1:Should we all cheer for violence? No, absolutely not. But the wealthy elite love, love, love our peaceful protests. They love our little signs, our cute little chants, and they love that for the price of a few local politicians they can send riot police to break it up with tear gas and rubber bullets. They love it because it doesn't affect them at all. They can't even see the protests from their high-rises that literally block the light. Look it up 57th Street is called Billionaire's Row. It has buildings so tall that it blocks all the light. In Central Park they bought the fucking sun and if you look at it it's like a giant middle finger made out of luxury penthouses. So yeah, do I condone violence? No, but it feels really good to see one of these dickheads finally pay the price for their greed, pay for it in a way that they couldn't tie up in a long legal battle that ends up with a slap on the wrist or a fine so small and never even impacts their bank statements.
Speaker 2:He paid the same way every one of his victims paid with his life, killed by his own words, deny, defend I love you, and if you had asked the version of me that you knew when I was 14, do you think I would have been ever been able to say that I was happy somebody was killed 14 yeah, 14 year old leah is.
Speaker 1:I mean, does 14 year old leah know that it's a slimy scumbag? Ceo.
Speaker 2:No, she's fully bought into the idea of peaceful protest. Wow, yeah, and I was a pacifist for a very long time and I'm sure you're all picking up on the was, but I'm also just kidding. For anybody who this is all a joke, we're not serious right now. Leah's joking, definitely joking. Please don't take my citizenship away. Um, that is a real concern I have because that is in the plans. Yeah, for project 2025, but uh, you know politics are over because the election's over yeah, it's over.
Speaker 1:It's over and done, leah, we don't have to worry about politics anymore, they're done yeah, meanwhile they're happening every day.
Speaker 2:When a man like brian thompson is in charge of increasing the profits of his shareholders by $4 billion fucking dollars, when I forget how many people's deaths are in his hands oh, it's an absurd number.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like tens of thousands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, per year. Yeah, and it's intentional. Yeah, they know what they're doing. Yeah, they know what they're doing. Yeah, they know exactly what they're doing. And I have to say again, as somebody who has lived with socialized healthcare and this really fucked up world of privatized healthcare, I will tell you over and over and over again while there are always issues in any system, including Canada's healthcare system, I would pick it in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I have the VA, the VA. I was going to say the VA. What the fuck is that Um? I have the VA, which is, you know, they. It's something that project 2025 wants to eliminate, um, and that's because it fucking works. It's it's because the the efficacy of treatment is high and the cost of treatment is low and we don't have to pay for it, us veterans. It's funded by our defense budget.
Speaker 2:A simple fact the US has the most expensive health care and the lowest life expectancy rate of developed countries. That doesn't make any sense unless you put the two points together there, yeah, we're not paying for better healthcare Also you want to know something.
Speaker 2:Great Is that this whole myth about people in socialized healthcare having to wait in line for so long. Do you know what's really slow? Having to call the bureaucracy of a private health insurance to beg them to take your health concerns seriously and that you really need a treatment or a medicine to fucking live, and then to still have to wait months for appointments because the system is overloaded, even as a private system, and we need to invest in more healthcare professionals and folks being paid appropriately and also having realistic work schedules so they don't burn the fuck out, because most health professionals, I think, have PTSD at this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, especially after COVID.
Speaker 2:Think about where that $4 billion of profit could have gone if it was not in the pockets of people who were literally profiting off of our fucking sickness, off our death. So I love you and I love your. Well, I don't know what you call that Roast. Also, I love Luigi Mangione, if he's the person who did it. Yeah, I'm just saying it. He is a folk hero of our times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and every time that you walk into the hospital for an appointment, that's an opportunity for them to bill you Yep, Bill you or bill your insurance. So it's in their best interest to keep you coming back. So they're like, yeah, come on in. And then you go in and they look at your knee or something and they're like, oh, you got to come back and go to a specialist. And it's like, can I just go to the specialist down the hallway? And they're like, no, it's in a different hospital With an additional fee. Yeah, you have to go to a different hospital. When I go to the VA, if I go in there and I'm like, yeah, I've got an itchy rash, they're like here's your itchy rash cream. And I'm like, also, I feel like killing myself. They're like go over to mental health and they'll see you right now. And then I'm like, also, I have back concerns, the people who run the MRI or whatever. And you know and make a, make an appointment Like you, can you do it all in the same building?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's no. There's no waiting between things that are just like oh, you need to do a thing, just go do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like we've talked about health insurance before on this podcast, have we? Oh, probably Didn't I talk about Tom, you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about a difference of experience, because I think a lot of folks are listening. Some of them are Canadian. Hey, canadian besties, I'm besties, I love you out there. I also love the American ones and the ones in Europe. Love you all. Yeah, shout out to the UK.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Also has a different kind of health care system. Yeah, anyhow, I just want to share a couple of experiences of what it's like on the other side of things. When I first moved to the United States, I was trying to show off how cool I was by climbing some monkey bars for my then girlfriend and I was in ballet shoes and I slipped and I broke my ankle. I didn't know, you were wearing ballet shoes.
Speaker 1:Why were you wearing?
Speaker 2:ballet shoes, because that was the cool style in 2010 it was yes, like, not actual ballet shoes, that's what they're called. Oh like, I think they're more often called flats. Now, oh yeah, I think I know what you're talking. Basically no ankle support, no cushioning, just like you might as well be without shoes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they looked like converse, but they were like really super low top yeah no, I had not.
Speaker 2:I had not, they just like slip on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they look like a ballet shoe but they're black or something or some other like neutral color most of the time, or like leopard print or something ludicrous and wonderful. Anyhow, I had not tried to climb monkey bars since I was a child, so this was a really stupid thing to try to do to impress anybody. And I instantly fell. I think I got like three rungs in and I fell and I broke my ankle. I didn't know I broke my ankle until I got back to Canada six months later I thought I just sprained it. Why did I think I just sprained it? One willful ignorance because I could not put any weight on it. And two, I was terrified to go to the doctor because I was just a visitor to the United States, I had no health insurance and they wouldn't take me because, unlike somebody who's American, I'm pretty sure it would have been even weirder for me as a Canadian in that circumstance. So I just didn't go and that was the first time in my experience ever pausing to think can I afford for healthcare? And it was almost like an out of body experience.
Speaker 2:Six months later, I'm actually walking on that ankle again. I was driving around. This is like an early version of me in Walmart going around on those what are they called? Oh, the little scooters Scooters, yeah, and I had it wrapped with, assuming it was. I just pretended it was this brain, basically. But I eventually got back to the point of walking and thinking it was fine. And then I was riding my horse back in Canada and I got off my horse and just the impact of getting like from being on top of a 16, two hand horse which is pretty tall for those who have no idea what that means to the ground was enough to flare it back up. I went into the hospital. I was seen within 30 minutes, I had everything done. I was out of there in an hour with a boot and a actual diagnosis, which is Leah, you fucking broke your ankle and you should have gotten this looked at a lot earlier and ever since then it's just been so apparent to me the difference.
Speaker 2:And my sister, amy, died from lung cancer and she lived as long as she did because of experimental treatments that she probably would have been denied for here in the United States.
Speaker 1:Yeah, treatments that she probably would have been denied for here in the United States, yeah, and also even whatever care that she did get would have cost like probably $100,000.
Speaker 2:It would have bankrupted our family. Nobody needed. There were no GoFundMes for Amy yeah, that wasn't a thing. Nobody was. Nobody had to decide between Amy's life, including Amy, and getting care. So fuck Brian Thompson, because that's the kind of man that would have let my sister die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would have denied yeah or delayed Yep. Delay long enough and the patient dies. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do we want my happier life updates after that? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just keep moving?
Speaker 2:What's your life updates, leah? This is what I wrote on my list Surprise art project chanting going good, about to have three weeks off. Orgs I work with have been labeled as extremist. Uh, in the same month as the house passed a bill to defund and strip the tax exemption status of groups they deem as extreme oh, was that litter uplifting, uplifting update leah, should I reread that last one? I know I think I think you got it. Yeah, um so surprise our project very fun. Can't say more about it.
Speaker 2:We'll show later because it's a surprise for a zombie bestie that I adore yeah uh, but I will just say that I've been looking at visual references that I'm instantly regretting, like, what does a torn off ear look like? I, I regret googling that. Um, I really want to know what charred skin looks like too for a visual reference, and I'm really I don't know if I think I might just not do that. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, I don't think I need to know, you're just not going to, but it's very fun and, most importantly, I get three weeks off of work very soon and I really need that for mental health, because it's becoming abundantly clear that self-care in the next four years is going to be really, really important for all of us.
Speaker 1:I mean you're not going to get any other kinds of care from the system, it's all self-care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rugged, individualistic self-care, that's not true Community care. But yeah, yeah, you know, I'll care for you, dan, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:We're talking about the myth of rugged individualism. Do you know what rugged individualism is?
Speaker 2:Leah, I think so. Every man only men is an island. We are all responsible 100% for our own success or demise. Yeah, and we all need to survive as individuals with no support elsewhere. Otherwise we are socialist babies and we should pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. And everybody who's rich got there because they're really exceptional and everybody who's poor sucks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's that's. That's it more or less. It's the belief that individuals can succeed entirely through their own effort, without reliance on others or systems. So, yeah, this is a myth that it exists in many, many societies, especially our own, the Western civilization, and it's often glorified in the media and survival narratives. Definitely the zombie apocalypse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brad Pitt, one man smoke show saving everybody yeah, brad pitt's a perfect example.
Speaker 1:That should have been on my list. I've got a. I've got a list of a few characters from tv and movies. Um, that kind of like exemplify this idea. But also, you know, we'll. We'll see how this goes, all right I hadn't.
Speaker 2:I'm still kind of shocked. This is what we're talking about, but, like, really happy about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so keep going. Rick Grimes Some of you might have heard of him from the Walking Dead. Rick initially tries to lead and survive based on his own decisions and strength, but his journey shows the limits of going it alone. And the Walking Dead, I think, is amazing because it isn't Brad Pitt fighting all the zombies in the world, it's a group of people surviving together. They tell a really great survival story together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do and I agree with you. That is definitely the trajectory of his experience, but also, I think, of the show where it starts with Rick at sort of the center, yeah, and then it becomes about a lot of different storylines and how they all fit together and how they create community to survive. Yeah, I think that is the ultimate message of the Walking Dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then at a certain point they even got rid of Rick.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then brought him back. Honestly, I was okay with Rick being gone, yeah. Next, yeah, and then brought him back. Honestly, I was okay with rick being gone, yeah, um. Next in the list max rokatansky from mad max, the, the quintessential lone wolf survivor, um leah, you haven't seen uh movies of the, uh the mad max movies other than fury road, uh, but you know like he was the road warrior, he was the guy in the wastelands that didn't need anyone else. So Max often appears as a lone wanderer. His survival ultimately hinges on the collaboration with others, however, such as Furiosa and Mad Max Fury Road. Also, in the road warrior, he also finds that he needs the group of people that are running the oil derrick that he decides to help out. He needs those people to survive as well. It all becomes uh. That's usually the. The lesson that he learns is like. He's like yeah, I can survive out here alone.
Speaker 2:And then it's also like also, I'm losing my mind it's really interesting that that's a theme in these examples you're showing here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, robert Neville from I Am Legend. He lives alone in a post-apocalyptic New York. Neville's solo survival is marked by ingenuity, but also profound loneliness and vulnerability. I would love to watch I Am Legend again, the 2004 Will Smith movie. Yeah, I want to watch I am legend again, the uh 2004 will smith movie yeah, I want to watch it too.
Speaker 2:It's technically zombies, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:it's kind of it's. People would argue that they're not zombies and they're actually vampires, but they are very zombie like well, ollie eats brains would tell us, you can be both zombie and vampire? I think so, yeah and ollie is a zombie, so I think they're the ultimate authority here yeah, next on the list westerns, just all westerns um the archetype, archetypical cowboy character like john wayne embodied the rugged individualist who solves problems single-handedly, a myth later deconstructed in films like Unforgiven.
Speaker 2:Have you watched that? What happens in that?
Speaker 1:So Unforgiven is a Clint Eastwood movie that was made in the 90s and it's about a really old gunslinger that is called upon to go to a town to avenge some prostitutes who were treated badly in the town and he used to be a really bad dude, but then he fell in love and the person that he fell in love with turned him into a good man and now that he's going back into this life he's realizing that he's old and that he doesn't really. He can't really do it alone, but he's still pretty badass though of course I mean you still have to have that for a western audience.
Speaker 1:He gets his ass kicked a lot in that movie. Like it's, it's uh, it's a lot. Great movie, though I would love to watch unforgiven again um, john wick. John wick is portrayed as an unstoppable individual. That's kind of like his whole ethos is like he has skills, he has guns, he's unstoppable. He doesn't even have to look where he's shooting. But if you really think about his survival depends on a hidden network of allies and resources undermining the myth of total self-reliance. So even John Wick needs community.
Speaker 2:I'm also thinking about the Night Eats the World as an example of somebody who is the lone wolf, but I think it's a very explicit critique of what happens to you if you're stuck by yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's kind of like telling the story of he needs community but he doesn't have it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, what's interesting is, in each of these examples that you have here, like there is this idea of the lone wolf and the rugged individual, but there's subtle checks being like that's true, but also you need people yeah, I think the only example is like john wayne.
Speaker 1:John wayne was like. I feel like that john wayne is responsible for this, at least in america this ideal of the rugged individual. I think that's like the origin of of this idea, because I feel like you know, if you go back to real cowboy days, those cowboys had to rely on each other, otherwise they'd all be dead yeah, I mean everybody.
Speaker 2:I guess they are dead, but everybody knows the donner party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gotta rely on each other, and also that means eating each other sometimes but john wayne was like the original, like tough guy, survivor, the guy, the, the man's man that can do all the man things you want to know my theory of the invention of the rugged individual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, capitalism, definitely capitalism because it it gave us the illusion that we can just go out earn money and it's abstracted from any relationships. And then we go spend the money at the grocery store and it's so easy to forget that everything you buy at the grocery store got to you from the hands of like, at this point, thousands of people. For you to have an Apple it's like such an interconnected web, but we can't see it. It becomes invisible. Yeah, for you to have an apple it's like such an interconnected web, but we can't see it. It becomes invisible. Um, and it's also the part of the breakdown of community and family units, because we don't rely on each other economically as much anymore.
Speaker 1:We don't think we should yeah, and that's how they want it. They want it that way because it's so much more expensive to be an individual yeah, you know, we, our community, is a great example.
Speaker 2:Like I'd love to have a tool library, because every single one of us in our ticky tacky boxes has a lawnmower and a bunch of other shit that not the lawnmower so much, but a lot of other tools that are sitting there most of the time unused that could be shared it's true.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, and there's so many things that like I can't do during the summer because I'm too busy and because we have a little community here, simon can do some of those things, yep, and it all comes together.
Speaker 2:I really want to share a random anthropology fact. Yeah, please do, but I can't remember the name of this one specific word that I need. Okay, we'll make it up. Okay, so there are three major types of family systems. There's patrilineal, matrilineal and I think it's called bilateral, and I just want to make sure that that's true. Kinship systems anthropology it's been a very long time since I've thought about this Kinship. Yes, okay, so this all relates back to rugged individualism and how fucked up our society is with its overemphasis on this, and then we can get into some examples in the zombie apocalypse. Yeah, what do you think matrilineal means?
Speaker 1:Something about the mother. Yeah, mother's lineage.
Speaker 2:Yes, so a culture is where the mother's lineage is what dictates the group, the kin group that you're a part of. Yeah, so the Navajo, for example, are a matrilineal society.
Speaker 2:Love it and also matriarchal and have a really cool system where everybody's your mother, like all of your mom's siblings are also your mother, basically, and all of your aunts in our cultures children would be like your siblings. So it's a much more group-oriented way of um thinking about family. And then the patrilineal is the exact opposite, unsurprisingly also connected to patriarchy and the obsession with um peoples, with uteruses, um being controlled, basically, yeah, to ensure the patrilineal line continues. Anyways, bilateral is when it is actually both maternal and paternal relatives as being recognized as equally important in a person's life and you would have equally important relationships or the ability to be flexible in which relationships are important to you as you grow up. The reason this is important is in things like patrilineal societies, the person who's assigned as woman would end up becoming a part of the family of her new husband's patrilineal line, right, and vice versa with matrilineal, the man would be joining the woman's line.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And being a part of that kinship group With bilateral, you can be part of both. And bilateral kinship patterns are most often seen in places where there is extreme resource scarcity and that's because they need more people to be able to rely on to be okay. And I think the reason why this is interesting to me when it comes to rugged individualism and capitalism, is that we are a bilateral system here and I think that's because we've been abstracted from community care and we need as many resources and people around us to support us, while also pretending that none of them matter and we can just like yeet out of our familial systems, our communities, and there's no impact. And I want to just briefly sidebar say, as somebody who has many estranged familial relationships, I'm not saying you should stick in situations of abuse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no no, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that we need flexibility in who we imagine as family so that we can survive, while also all pretending that we're earning our own little paychecks and that our survival has nothing to do with anybody else. That's my random anthropology rant, yeah.
Speaker 1:I learned something today.
Speaker 2:I had no idea I'd be sharing those random facts today, but thanks for letting me feel like an anthropology teacher again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's talk about the practical realities of rugged individualism in the zombie apocalypse. We've already actually kind of touched on some already, mm-hmm. But while rugged individualism is an appealing is appealing in theory, the practical realities of surviving a zombie apocalypse often exposes its flaws. This talking point focuses on human limitations physical, mental and logistical that make surviving alone nearly impossible, literally impossible. It also highlights the benefits of collaboration, shared resources and emotional connections in survival scenarios. So first one, jim from 28 days later oh yeah, 28 years later, trailer just dropped coming around the corner. Looks exciting, it does, I like. I like the pile of skulls, the skull henge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the skull henge does look very disturbing.
Speaker 1:So Jim, initially surviving alone, wakes up in that hospital all by himself. Jim faces extreme vulnerability until joining a group showing how partnerships increase survival odds. Yeah, there was no chance for Jim if nobody showed up and threw a Molotov cocktail at the zombies. Yeah, it's the only reason he lived. Yeah, and you know, there's a whole lot of like rugged individualism themes in that movie, like Selena is very much like. If you fall behind, I will leave you.
Speaker 2:And part of her character's growth is realizing that's not true, yeah.
Speaker 1:But also she saved Jim at the very beginning. So I think all along she knew that that wasn't true.
Speaker 2:My guess is that, as much as we've been indoctrinated into rugged individualism, some part of us always knows that's a really bad idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Walking Dead again. Morgan, his isolation after the loss of his family leads to psychological breakdowns showing the mental toll of rugged individualism, mental toll of a lot of things. But yeah, he was alone for a very long time. He lost it.
Speaker 2:A great example because he was actually on paper surviving pretty well physically.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But without the support of community or his family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was not okay yeah, he had so much like he had. He had so many systems in place to take care of himself, but without people he was just.
Speaker 2:He was just losing his mind yeah and he didn't recover his mind until he became friends with the cheesemaker yeah, and then went off on his own journey and fear the walking dead, which is too bad for him because that series sucked yeah.
Speaker 1:Well before that he went to Alexandria as a, as a pacifist Right, and again he was. You know, he was trying to help the wolves. He's like we, we, you can't. He was telling the wolves basically this exact thing you can't live like this. We need people to survive. We need to survive together. He was trying to teach them that lesson. Interesting.
Speaker 1:Another 28 Days Later one Frank and Hannah. Their collaboration with Jim and Selena highlights how trust and teamwork can create hope and resilience in dire circumstances. Yeah, I mean, they were on their own in that high rise they were. They were putting out the christmas lights to try to attract people like real people, um, to come form up with them. And they and frank realized that like there's no way that he could get hannah out of the city on his own. He needed, he couldn't do it all on his own. And Frank was a very capable person. He had the riot shield, he had a billy club, he could drive a black cab over top of a bunch of wrecked cars in the tunnel underground. You know, he had the skills to pay the bills, but he knew deep down that if he didn't have other people that he could depend on, they would never survive.
Speaker 2:And also, most importantly, I think he recognized that his own survival was at risk and if Hannah had other people to rely on, that, if he goes, she's still going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's true. And again, in modern day situations. I think of another thing. This is really morbid, but I think about just even the beginnings of our little zombie commune with the three of us. If any one of us goes, there's at least two people that can continue to support each other, and I'd like it to grow so that network widens, because, as much as you're my absolute bestie of all zombie besties, dan yeah, I'm a zombie bestie I can't rely only on you for everything I need in community, and it's good to have a strong network of people. Yeah, a network would be great. Yeah, ooh, network of zombie communes, that'd be fun. Oh, yeah, can we make string and can telephones? Probably not. I mean, we could have them in the house. I haven't done that in so long. Now I want to.
Speaker 1:Joel and Ellie from the Last of Us. This is the first Last of Us one. Uh, joel and ellie from the last of us. This is the first last of us one. While joel starts as the hardened individualist, his bond with ellie evolves into a survival partnership, proving that strength of connection. Um, yeah, he, he gets stabbed spoiler alert if you haven't seen it too late. You get stabbed at a certain point and I I thought he was gonna die because I haven't played the game so I didn't know what was gonna happen. I'm like this is it, this is the end. Um and uh, and. And he couldn't. He couldn't do anything. He couldn't fight, he couldn't take care of himself. He needed ellie to take care of him and that was. That was very much that moment where, like, it was less ellie following joel and more of them. And that was very much that moment where it was less Ellie following Joel and more of them working together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the Last of Us is an interesting example of the tension between individualism and community well-being, which I think is one that always exists, and different societies have found different ways to lean, and I think we're all I would say I'm trying to balance those two things most of the time in the way that I'm living my life.
Speaker 2:And this is a spoiler alert, so fast forward two minutes because this won't take long if you have not watched it when Joel has to make the choice to save Ellie or save the world, ostensibly by allowing them to kill her to get whatever her magical stuff was, to create a vaccine, which, again, we don't know that would have worked or not, but in theory it could have. He chose his immediate family and his own desire for and this is like fictive family, so I'm going to use cultural anthropology terms because they're not related but he saw her as his daughter for sure, over the well-being of the whole community, and that's a hard thing that I think as humans we're constantly trying to balance. I don't think that as much as we're talking about rugged individualism today, I don't think like hardcore collectivism, where the individual's rights don't matter at all, is the answer either, but there will always be some degree of tension between those two sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, I'm a firm believer that a vaccine wasn't going to save that world, like the damage was already done. The things that they were battling were not zombies. It was a world that had been torn apart, and what was left behind were the ugliest parts.
Speaker 2:Hmm, well, you should just delete this entire part of me talking about that.
Speaker 1:Okay, Now you might be thinking Leah, how does this apply to our real world that we live in right now, the modern world, the non-zombie world, the non-TV world?
Speaker 2:I'm definitely not, because individualism works really well here yeah.
Speaker 1:I figured you wouldn't be lost, but I'm talking. This is for the listener.
Speaker 2:They're probably nodding along with us. So, yeah, but we've got some examples of what this looks like in the real life world, uh, and you might have some too, so let us know if you've got some you want to add.
Speaker 1:So, uh, at this point it ties the discussion back to the real world parallels, such as crises, that reveal the importance of community and collaborative action. Um, so, the first one and many people who are listening to this probably have heard of this COVID-19. Yeah, that happened. It's still happening. Community-based efforts, such as delivering groceries to vulnerable individuals, demonstrated the power of collective action over isolation. During the crisis. I mean, we all had to isolate, but that isolation is still showing today that it had long lasting effects. Like, some people just didn't handle that isolation very well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my hermit tendency is just like quadrupled. I'm okay, but I do think that my relationship and also a relationship that I had, suffered, but on the flip side, it was the first time that I'd heard the term mutual aid. Personally, I think I've been involved in mutual aid without knowing that there was a term for it, and it's interesting in times of crisis, how people can come together and push back against this idea that like well, actually literally the virus itself pushed back the idea of rugged individualism, because all you have to do is stand next to somebody and you could die because they're not wearing a mask and they're infected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could be as rugged as you want. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Except for me. We're all breathing the same air. You know, it's a reminder of how inter except you. It's a reminder of how all interconnected we actually are. And it's not it's not really possible to fully abstract one person out of the system that they live in and benefit from. Yeah, and mutual aid is exactly what it sounds like and it's something that I really made a more intentional practice of post COVID-19, of just helping people out when I have the ability to yeah.
Speaker 2:And other people have helped me so much in my life that I'm very happy to pay it forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is also a really good example of how, like as a community, we isolated ourselves, like it was together, but together yeah, we did it together and we did it. We did it for each other, we were we. We quarantined ourselves for everyone else. I mean, most of us did depended on where you lived.
Speaker 2:I know that you know this is all very contextual to parts of the world and the country. Like I know, folks in the Southeast that were my friends and people I work with now really didn't have the same perceptions of this as you and I did here in Vermont. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Hurricane Katrina, that was a while ago. That was what 2004?
Speaker 2:I don't know that for sure. I just know there's been a lot since as well Grassroots efforts organized by groups like the Cajun Navy showed how neighbors helping neighbors prove more effective than individual efforts in some cases. I think a lot of the time when there's natural disasters, your neighbors become extra important for survival.
Speaker 1:I'm going to throw 9-11 on there as well. For survival, I'm going to throw 9-11 on there as well. It's not in the list, but 9-11 was a time where people came together to help down at Ground Zero. I remember an interview with the guy who was the voice of the animated Batman and he, uh, he volunteered at a diner cooking food for um first responders and it was. It was kind of a funny story because, uh, somebody recognized his voice. You know, like I know that voice and then he did like a line from batman and they're like it's fucking batman, batman's cooking. Collective farming and crisis zones in war-torn regions. Shared agriculture systems help sustain communities, proving that shared resources outperform individual hoarding this reminds me, actually, of detroit, michigan, and its urban farming movement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, that which is like the war zone of um systemic violence or structural violence of capitalism, when all of the car companies pulled out, manufacturing companies pulled out and their entire economy bottomed out, they the result of that was folks coming together and making incredible community gardens and figuring out ways to farm in um urban settings where everybody could feed themselves I'd like to to learn more about that, because I just know that there's a lot of really amazing stuff happening in Detroit because of how hard it's been there.
Speaker 2:The vacuum of the normal systems in place that we've all grown used to, I think, was a really beautiful, fertile ground for new ways of existing and being in community with each other, which is pretty cool. Grace Lee Boggs if you haven't read about her actually we should read Grace Lee Boggs as an activist, who I think has helpful words for us in this time On another episode, because I don't have a quote ready but she was from Detroit, michigan if I remember correctly, and had a lot to do with that movement, environmental activism and addressing the climate crisis for climate justice. In this increasingly dystopian world that we're living in, I have so many examples of how community is what's actually saving people, and not corporate businesses, not government systems, but the community coming together and figuring it out. There's this incredible nonprofit called Solar Darity and is spelled just because I think it helps to conceptualize it it's spelled soul, like your soul, s-o-u-l-a-r. So it's like a double entendre with solar, yeah, so Solar Darity. So I guess it's a triple entendre because it's got the soul. It's a triple entendre. It's got solar and solidarity all in one name. Honestly, I think it's probably one of the best organizations names I've ever seen. Yeah, and it's also one of the most amazing examples of community coming together to address, um, something that nobody else give a fuck about addressing, frankly. So I'm just going to actually read directly from their website the solidarity story, because it's only a couple of paragraphs, and we're going to link the website to our show notes.
Speaker 2:If you're feeling inspired to donate to an amazing grassroots organization, this is one that I can personally vouch is doing the kind of work that we need to be remodeling all across the nation. So let me read. This says Highland park, michigan, is a city of firsts. The model T factory and the Davidson freeway literally paved the way for the automobile and changed the way Americans got around and powered our lives. Now we are feeling the impacts of that transformation from climate change and corporations that value profit over human rights. This community has suffered devastating blackouts, massive floods, incredibly high energy bills and the loss of basic services. In 2011, dte energy, which is the utility that provides energy, repossessed, repossessed over a thousand street lights from highland park, leaving people in the dark because it wasn't financially beneficial for them to continue providing service. Whoever the dte ceo is uh, maybe somebody else can can fix that. That's all I'm saying, just kidding.
Speaker 1:So they just came. They just came by and they're like we're taking these lights, yeah, like isn't that more cost prohibitive than just leaving them there?
Speaker 2:they just thought you know what we're. Uh, we don't need to provide you energy anymore. This community sucks and you're done. Basically, wow, the community said, fuck you, we're gonna figure it out. Uh, that's. That was not part of the official story. That's me paraphrasing how I feel about it. They said, or the story says, this is not the way it has to be. The people of highland park have the opportunity to choose a different path. We have the power to save money with do-it-yourself energy projects. Use our collective knowledge and effort to fight for a just and sustainable energy system. Use I'm going to reread that use our collective knowledge and effort to fight for a just and sustainable energy system. I'm going to reread that Use our collective knowledge and effort to fight for a just and sustainable energy system. Use community solar and energy efficiency to build wealth in our communities and establish a legacy of powerful innovation. Solidarity is building a brighter future. Another great double entendre in Highland Park with education, organizing and people-powered clean energy. They literally rebuilt their own microgrid with solar.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That now benefits everybody. The local energy bills are lower than they've ever been. This is a historically very poor and black community that has been exploited over time, and they are thriving in this way because they came together to figure it out. And I think the moral of all of these examples is that one crisis reminds us that we are not alone in our success or our failure. And two, we save us. We fight for us, not corporations. They don't give a shit about us. Their entire ethos is making profits off of our backs.
Speaker 2:I'd like to believe in government, but currently I you know there are some good programs out there. I will say that there's people trying to do good things, but unfortunately, the um, I think the the disease of the idea of rugged individualism has infected a lot of our government and is only going to get worse in the next few years. So again, that we save us mentality is going to be so important for our literal survival. So, yeah, solidarity is just like one example of so many organizations I've gotten the privilege to know about who have pulled themselves collectively up by their bootstraps to figure shit out.
Speaker 1:They all grabbed the bootstraps at the same time.
Speaker 2:And they did it by networking with other groups and other organizations and sourcing government funding that would support them in these efforts. And without all of that collective action and thoughtfulness, Highland Park would literally still be in the dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, realize, you know, don't think that stuff like that is possible in america, that there's like an entire town that just doesn't have electricity because the power company is just like fuck you, but it, like it happened and the, and there was an answer which is we don't have, we don't have to sit around and and wait for you to decide to give us electricity yep, and that's what we need more and more models of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a question. I want some groans from the horde. Some groans, you know we've talked about some survival stories on this show a few times, and in fact, actually, I think your story of the snowpocalypse and walking to save your mom's dogs is both an example of rugged individualism that almost killed you, but also your dedication to the community that you were a part of and your desire to save other beings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I needed to uphold my end of that community agreement.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:With my individualism, yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe making some questionable choices, but I think you made the best choice you could in the moment. But what I would love to hear from our Zom besties in some groans, either via email, voicemail, dm and in Instagram, wherever um is where have you seen community really thrive in moments of crisis that you've been in, whether it was like your family or your neighbors or your city or your state, come together to figure things out? I think we need as many examples of that as possible, because that's what the future needs to look like. The future needs to look like solidarity. What solidarity has done in a moment of crisis is what every single community needs to do across the united states, which is to decentralize their power, kick out profiteering private utilities that are also exploitative and killing people in the same way that health insurance companies are. That you started with um. That's a whole other episode we could do.
Speaker 2:Uh, people with medical devices they don't give a shit. If you require medical device to live and you're poor, which, honestly, those two things can go together, because odds are you may be on disability, which is often does not a living way, just not universal basic income. It's barely enough to survive. Again, you need your community and family to actually make it. If you can't afford to pay your energy bill, you're making a choice between having the power you need to power your medical device or slowly dying or actually dying. So that's one example.
Speaker 2:And the other example is that families who get their kids taken away. One of the number one reasons somebody gets their kids taken away is because they can't provide their basic needs for them. It's not because they don't love their kids. It's not because there's somebody on the street who's using drugs instead of caring for their children. Yes, those examples are also real, but the number one reason kids get taken away from their families and put into foster care is because the lights are out. They can't put food in the fridge. That's what it ends up coming to, and there's a simpler solution than taking children away. It's just making power public, putting it back in our hands and making every community resilient and having their own power. I'm done now.
Speaker 1:I agree Growns from the horde. I love this idea. I want to hear people's stories of community. I want to hear what everybody's doing.
Speaker 2:How has community helped you? How have you helped community?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how has being an individual been really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question too, like when do you wish that there had been more people to support you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you an individual right now? And wish that you aren't, because you know what you could do. You could follow us on Instagram. That'll solve all of your problems. Zombie Book Club podcast on Instagram. Wow, what a segue. And we also have some other places. They're all in the link tree down in the description, but Instagram is the best place. If you want to send us a message, you can leave us a voicemail up to three minutes. We were talking about that earlier. It's the number 614-699-0006. That was so fast.
Speaker 2:Nobody could write that down.
Speaker 1:You need to say it the way that I said it when people didn't have automatic call identification on their cell phones.
Speaker 2:You have to go, you have to repeat it three times 614-699-0006. Yeah, does everybody have their notepad out?
Speaker 1:That's 614-699-0006. Sharpen your pencils and write down this number.
Speaker 2:My name is Leah. Please return my call.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you can send us your thoughts, your questions. Also, if you're an author, you could send us an elevator pitch. We need some more elevator pitches. We do, yeah, pitch an elevator.
Speaker 2:You got three minutes. Tell us about your book, tell our community about your book. Yeah, we've had some really great ones, and often those folks end up coming on the show. There's some folks who gave elevator pitches that we have not had on the show yet, but we want to. We're just working our way towards it over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Also, if you wanted to, you could just send us an email at zombiebookclubpodcast at gmailcom. It's all in the description, even that phone number that we repeated several times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know what? I think? My main call to action today is maybe sending a little gratitude to somebody who helped you somewhere along the way, yeah, and if you have the resources and ability to share a little love in whatever way you can, whether it's you know, five dollars to a mutual aid fund can make a big difference. Five dollars to a friend who needs to eat a meal can make a big difference. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So whatever, whatever, or just helping them do something yeah, help your friends and then have your friends help their friends and, before you know it, everybody gets help.
Speaker 2:And you know what I'm going to leave this with Is that you've all helped us by becoming part of our horde and our Zombesty group, and I appreciate each of you.
Speaker 1:You've helped us by giving us a five-star review.
Speaker 2:Yes, Also, if you want to leave a review and you don't have anywhere to do it because of how you listen to podcasts, you can actually give us a review as a story on your Instagram. We will reshare it and save it as a highlight, which, frankly, when we get nice reviews, it makes a big difference for us to keep going. We're not doing this for money. We're doing this for community. Actually, yeah, it's true, and it costs us money, so one of the things that really inspires me to keep going is all of you, so tell us how great we are. That's basically what I'm saying. Yeah, and you're pretty great too, zombesties, I hope that you're all doing well out there and that there's somebody that you can hug, and if not, I'm sending you a great big ghost hug from afar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big hugs, yeah, and Nero's going to give you a big lick on the face unless you don't like hugs.
Speaker 2:Some people are hug yeah reticent, in which case high five.
Speaker 1:Well, how about a friendly wave sounds good. Thanks for listening everyone. Uh, we'll see you in the next episode.
Speaker 2:The end is nigh might sound crazy, but the end is night baby. Bye, bye, bye, don't die. Thank you all eats brains for that. Bye, bye.
