Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
"Martha’s Notebook" an AI Apocalypse, with Special Guest Curt Fulster | Zombie Book Club Ep 63
In this episode of the Zombie Book Club, we dive into the world of AI-controlled zombies with award-winning writer, producer, and illustrator C. Fulster as we discuss his upcoming novel, Martha’s Notebook. Curt Fulster shares the unique inspiration behind his technologically-driven undead and how a 12-year-old girl navigates a world where AI zombies keep upgrading themselves, becoming more lethal. We also explore the book’s deeper themes of family dynamics and survival, making it more than just another apocalyptic tale.
Curt reveals how his experiences as an electrician, children’s book author, and animated short film producer shaped his writing, giving us insight into his creative process and balancing these projects with family life. Don’t miss this fascinating conversation about the future of AI, zombie apocalypse scenarios, and what readers can expect as Martha’s Notebook evolves into a thrilling trilogy.
Buy Martha's Notebook on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Marthas-Notebook-Zombie-Apocalypse-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B0D8HG5T46
C. Fulsters Website:
https://cfulster.com/
C. Fulster on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/cfulsterauthor/
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Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a notebook. But that notebook has computer chips, and the computer chips keep upgrading themselves until finally the notebook hunts you down and eats you. Probably not what this is about. I'm Dan, and when I'm not dealing with my own chip-pocalypse, my doctors have been warning me to cut back. I'm writing a book using a computer which, I'm told, contains chips, but they just don't taste right.
Speaker 3:And I'm Leah, and in case artificial intelligence is listening to this in the future, I prefer my chips to be chocolate. Thank you very much. Today we are chatting with Kurt Folster about his soon-to-be-released AI zombie novel, martha's Notebook. Kurt is an award-winning writer, producer and illustrator who happens to also be a seasoned electrician, which is very handy to have around the zombie apocalypse. Yes, definitely. He's also created over 16 children's books children and zombies. I'm really curious about that. We'll get into it Three animated screenplays and even an internationally acclaimed short film. When Kurt's not working or creating, you will find him enjoying hockey, spicy food or relaxing with his family in Colorado. How are you doing today, kurt? Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for having me guys and thanks for the intro. I know it's kind of a lot and I know there's some randomness to it, but I feel like that's part of the fun of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I recently electrocuted myself. Am I close to becoming an electrician?
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like as soon as you've shocked yourself once you're officially an electrician, I mean I feel like as soon as you've shocked yourself once you're officially an electrician, I think that's how it works, but I don't remember all right, I'm starting my new career there you go.
Speaker 1:You've already finished your apprenticeship, dan the apprenticeship is just being shocked over and over again. Why are you doing this to me?
Speaker 2:you're learning once you've done it two or three times, I think you're like a seasoned electrician, almost a master.
Speaker 3:So I think you're good all right, you crave it, just keep at it then do you crave the electric shock?
Speaker 2:no, no, it's, I've. I've had a couple, and they are not fun. I've even had one that was a little bit higher than it I should have been playing with, but they're. They're definitely not fun, but they make you pay attention and I think that's why I like being an electrician.
Speaker 1:Do they have different flavors, like a higher voltage? Does it taste different?
Speaker 2:No, but the funny thing is there's I don't remember what it is. There's a code book or something, an electrical code book from the 80s that actually told you where to touch the wire on your tongue to see if the wire was live and that was actually in the code book that's peak. I mean you had to specifically touch it in a certain area.
Speaker 1:So wow, wow. We have some rapid fire questions, very important questions.
Speaker 2:Um, we will judge you based on the answers to these questions deeply very deep judging yes I mean, I kind of figured so all right, are you ready?
Speaker 1:first thing, first thing that comes to your mind, just go with your gut, all right, all right, uh, fast or slow?
Speaker 2:zombies um, from listening to other podcasts, I actually have the same answers some of your other guests have, I think, for watching, I would say fast, if I'm having to survive it definitely slow and maybe even slow with like broken legs too perfect yeah, their legs, or just like a completely missing lower limbs yeah, yeah, just however slow you can make them, I mean, put them on a segue. I don't know if that would make them slower.
Speaker 1:Also toothless and uh, yeah maybe armless, I mean yeah, you know, I, I definitely feel that now that I'm just getting older and, uh, becoming more injured as the work season goes on, I'm like I just, I just can't, I'm just gonna die. Regard like slow zombies at this point are gonna catch up to me and I'm gonna be like, ah, I've got all the advantages, these. They don't even have teeth. They're dragging themselves around, they're just gumming people.
Speaker 2:They're gumming for me, all right maybe not even slow, like literally crawling zombies yeah, perfect, baby zombies um 40 hour work week or the zombie apocalypse uh, I mean, I don't really know what type of job I would need to pick the 40 hour work week, but I would say zombie apocalypse I don't think I would survive, but I would still pick it yeah, I mean, you're an electrician, so you'd probably do like a 70-hour week.
Speaker 2:I would imagine yeah, I mean, they're not fun times with that. So, even 40 hours, I feel like I'd probably still take my chance with the zombies. How?
Speaker 1:mad would you be if you get the zombie apocalypse and you survive and you are in the weeds for a year just hacking zombies apart. You find a survivor settlement and they're like welcome to our settlement. Um, can you be our electrician?
Speaker 2:we have a lot of work for you it's funny because I actually have thought of that. I was like. I was like I mean, if there's a zombie apocalypse, I would want to be valuable so I don't get killed by like random people. I was like I feel like a storyteller and an electrician. I got to be pretty high up there by now that they would want me around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, the roaming gang comes by and they're like, yeah, let's just chop off their heads. And you're like, wait, I'm an electrician.
Speaker 2:And they're like, you know they're like oh wait, we don't have one of them.
Speaker 1:But we don't have an electrician. Nobody's said that when we were about to chop off their head.
Speaker 2:I mean, I do somewhat know generally on how to make. I totally just brain farted the word. I know how to create electricity out of an alternator on a car.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Can you make it out of an alternator on a car? Amazing.
Speaker 2:Can you make it a little potato though I mean potato's a little trickier, so I'll have to learn that one. I'll need to go raid a library and get some books.
Speaker 1:Also, nobody lies about being an electrician. Somebody might be like I'm a doctor and then try to fake it. Nobody's going to be like I'm an electrician.
Speaker 2:No, because I feel like I try to fake it. Nobody's gonna be like I'm an electrician.
Speaker 1:No, because I feel like I try to fake it but I feel like I know more, and I try to fake that I know less. So, all right. So, uh, it's, um, it's the zombie apocalypse. It happened. Uh, you haven't found that magical community yet. You're still out there in the weeds, you're, you're hacking to pieces. But you got one problem you don't know what weapon to choose. What's your weapon of choice?
Speaker 2:I actually, in the very ending of my book I tried to figure out two awesome weapons that I think would just be amazing for the zombie apocalypse. One of them was like a special katana that I just thought was cool. The other one that I would pick if I could somehow find it, is an obsidian axe.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, like, like I know flint knapping the, the axe head and everything yeah, that one we would have to see, because I don't know if I could sharpen it if it ever got dull. But I know they're hard to get dull and they're supposed to be very, very sharp. So hopefully I can just ride that out for a while that's a new one and I really love obsidian.
Speaker 3:I I went through a crystal phase. Okay, it happens still going on. I stopped buying them. I have enough. But I obsidian is very pretty. So not only would your axe never get uh, dull, it sounds like, or very rarely, it would also look very fashionable, which, which I think, is an under-thought-through thing.
Speaker 2:I mean that would be cool and I was just thinking I wonder if it would be reflective enough that I could blind the zombies maybe with it, like shine some sun in their eyes If you polished it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean obsidian's a little bit like glass in a way. The technique for making it would be flint knapping, so you're like flaking off tiny little pieces. But once you like learn how to do that, and especially if you're really good, the edge is like a molecule thick, it's like the sharpest you can make anything.
Speaker 3:Wow. So what you're saying is I have a whole bunch of potential weapons hanging around the house right now. Yes, great, yes, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that they can be they can be sharper than steel and stuff and I was like that sounds perfect for a zombie apocalypse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right, it is again. It's the zombie apocalypse. You know you've already gotten your weapon of choice. You've been doing pretty good in that area. Uh, you don't know what to eat and you get you can choose. I don't know. I guess you run into a genie maybe and they're like wish for a food, I guess I don't know how this works.
Speaker 1:More like a, like a yeah, warehouse that's filled with whatever this is you get one unlimited shelf, stable food item to eat for the rest of your life. Uh, what, what do you choose?
Speaker 2:uh, that one's kind of hard um I was trying to think of, because I know you dan said that you, um, you drive for your job. Yeah, and the job before I was an electrician was driving. So I not the best with shelf stable food because that's I would always stop at gas stations and grab something. Yeah, um, oh, yeah, it's, I used to pig out on chips and now I don't know if I would pick that as my shelf stable food anymore. Yeah, um, I don't know, but I, I mean beef jerkies, are I actually I kind of like like dried fruit, like dried pineapple, dried apricots?
Speaker 1:I, I feel like that might be my choice like a dried fruit mix yeah, I feel like I like the little plastic containers that are by the checkout, that are like it's not by a, a company that you know, but like it's.
Speaker 2:It's full of like dried things yeah, you just see some dried colors and you're like those look good and they might be good.
Speaker 1:It's not potato chips, so it's got some good sugars.
Speaker 3:Maybe some vitamins are still in there when it's dried, I would imagine I think that's a good choice.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you find someone that has peanuts you can make like a little trail mix and you're set.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you could probably rehydrate them. I imagine you could like add some water. Let them.
Speaker 3:Let them soak up that water a little bit you probably could yeah, I mean, we should try last time we talked about this, I talked about having like a potluck one day, if we all get to be together in person. But now I'm realizing something even more amazing, which is we should just list everybody's ideas and then have, like a child, a cooking challenge of like most creative dried fruit to the list. I'm. I'm loving food that's a good idea dried fruit to the list. I'm loving it. That's a new one. God, if we have to do that and have everyone make.
Speaker 2:Have everyone make a three course meal out of it.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, it's gonna it's like a three course it's like zombie chopped. We could pitch this to chopped the tv show. I love it. Thank you, kurt.
Speaker 2:That's actually a pretty good idea.
Speaker 1:I like that I'm writing it down um, how do you think you would cope mentally and emotionally in a zombie apocalypse?
Speaker 2:um, I don't know. I know you guys are more introverted and I am definitely more introverted, so I know before I heard joe salazar say how she coped unusually well in covid. I feel like I didn't really notice a whole difference during covid. So generally I feel like I would do well, but I also I do like getting out once in a while and doing something fun. So I feel like I could do pretty solid for a month or two and then then I think I would start to get stir crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean, as long as you're not surrounded by zombies, you can get out, go ride your bicycle around town or something there's stuff to do in a zombie apocalypse, it just doesn't involve other human beings.
Speaker 2:Perfect, I mean as long as they're slow zombies and stuff and you have a pretty fortified area, I mean you can go on top of your building and throw rocks at them or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know some people like golfing. They could go up there and like do some turn their roof into a driving range?
Speaker 3:I think I would do dodgeball with them, but they just wouldn't know they're dodging the ball, because that was the only thing I was good at in school. It's your school fantasy of like hitting everybody that you throw the ball at yep being like I won. Since I was, I was good at the dodging and not the hitting part, so it'd be good. Practice me too.
Speaker 2:I was a great dodger, yeah I don't think I was either of those, so um.
Speaker 1:So I'm just, I'm just looking right now, um, um, you've, you're, you've got some, you've got some, uh, some things under your belt other than shocking yourself on your tongue in the eighties. Um, you've, you've written 15 children's books, uh, three animated scripts, produced an animated short film that won 17 awards. And now you wrote, uh, martha's notebook, this book, uh, with AI zombies. Um, what, uh, how, how do you? How do you write that many children's books and do all of that? How does it happen?
Speaker 2:Um, probably a good dose of ADHD. Um, I, I don't know. I know my wife likes to tease me that I don't like to sit still and I always have to have something I'm working on, um, and so this has probably been over eight or nine years or so. Um, but I started kind of randomly. I got into writing a children's book.
Speaker 2:Um, from coaching youth hockey, um, and one of the dads I was talking to and he kind of after the conversation, he said his kid hated reading books, and so I decided well, I could probably write a kid's book, like I could write a decent story for that. Um, then I tried it and I fell in love with it and everybody was like the first story I wrote was called Blake and the turtles and it was about these two turtles that pick on the snake. And they pick on them because snakes are all scary and they're all bad and blah, blah, blah. And so he keeps trying to pretend to be a turtle and all that and keeps trying to do that through the book. And so finally turtles are like no, we don't want anything to do with you. And so the snake all of a sudden realizes one of the turtles has a shell, but it's painted.
Speaker 2:and so he checks it out and realizes one of the turtles is actually a lizard pretending to be a turtle whoa, that was a plot twist I did not see coming so he points it out and says you're making fun of me for being a snake, but you're not a turtle. And so he's like oh well, I'm a lizard and lizards are all bad and blah, blah, blah. So the snake is like well, like we can just all be good, like none of us can be bad, we can just all be good. And that was the first story I wrote, the snake is a real hero exactly yeah that's a great moral to the story for
Speaker 2:kids, yeah and I feel like like some people pretend to be other things to try and fit in and it's like just be who you are, kind of. And yeah, I love that story and other people did. And I realized like I really like writing stories and so I kind of just kept going and going and I kept having ideas, so I kept writing and it was kind of led into all this.
Speaker 3:Have you ever been the snake or the lizard, like what inspired that story?
Speaker 2:because it's really good, it's cute I feel like I've been both kind of um and I kind of feel like feel like that could resonate with a lot of people, because I feel like, going through school from like kindergarten all the way up through high school, I kind of feel like everyone has a taste of both, probably, where maybe they're trying to be a little different, to fit in, but also they kind of try to be themselves and they get kind of made fun of or kind of teased for it because they're they're different, and maybe even from someone who's trying to fit in. Yeah, I've been. I mean, I've kind of been both. I've I've had times where I tried to fit in more and it kind of worked, but it wasn't like I knew, it just wasn't me kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Then, especially after high school, I feel like I kind of gradually learned more and more about like who I am, what I like, and like just kind of went with it. And the more I went with it, the more I was like, oh no, like this is who I am, this is what I like to do, like I don't really care anymore if people don't like it and I don't know. The older I've gotten, the more I'm just. I've kind of gotten to the point of like don't really care if anyone doesn't like me, cause I don't. I'm introverted, I don't want to hang out with everybody, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now it's like a badge of honor. I'm fine with that. I don't have to hang out with anybody. I don't have to maintain any awkward relationships. I don't have to care about like what big thing they have going on. I just I just have my bestie that I live with and that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and our zombies, don't forget them, our zombies.
Speaker 1:But, like you know what, when we come together, we're we're far away from each other and we talk about zombies. It's perfect. It's about as much as I can handle, to be honest. I mean, if we gave a shit, that's always the funnest.
Speaker 3:It is the funnest, and if we really gave a shit about trying to fit in, we wouldn't be doing something like the Zombie Book Club and we wouldn't have found people that we actually do connect with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I found that the zombie peeps are are like hiding. We're like survivors, we're out there hiding and much like survivors of the zombie apocalypse. You know, you might just drive right past their street and not know that they're there, because you're like, oh, there's fucking zombies all around that house. I'm not going anywhere near there, um and it's. It's like we're now. We are now gathering together as survivors and creating our, our zombie utopia yeah, kurt you.
Speaker 3:You came out of your bunker and your electric, electrical work to make all of these incredible pieces of art, really, and storytelling. And as an introvert, you won an award right one of your scripts. No one of your um films won an. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Both kind of One. The three animated scripts haven't been produced or anything yet, we're still kind of shopping them around. But one of them did win an award and I feel really bad because I totally forgot who it was through. It won an award last January. It was a bi-quarterly award film festival thing and our script won. God what one it was. But yeah, it won for new screenwriter and then the animated short film I created won that one I'm off on too. I think it was 16 awards from a number of small film festivals.
Speaker 3:What's it like to put yourself out there like that and get those kinds of accolades as somebody who is introverted?
Speaker 2:it's really. It's really weird and uncomfortable but kind of fun at the same time. It's kind of cool to get acknowledgement that what you're doing is is actually good and you're actually it's, it's a beneficial thing and people actually enjoy it. That part's a good feeling. It's weird getting acknowledgement and someone saying, hey, you did a good job. I I still.
Speaker 3:That's weird and uncomfortable for me sometimes yeah yeah receiving compliments is, I think, extra tough for an introvert. You're like oh no, you, you were looking at me.
Speaker 2:I know my wife calls me here and there.
Speaker 3:She's like you need to learn how to accept compliments and I was like I don't think I do that's right, because you're a snake and you're not trying to fake being a turtle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, compliments are for turtles.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm just preparing for the zombie apocalypse. I don't think zombies are going to compliment me, so I'm just I'm preparing for that.
Speaker 1:You know that's the zombie apocalypse. We're not prepared for what if all the zombies just come around and they're like I like your hat, you look good, Great haircut. Those shoes match.
Speaker 2:They start munching on you while they're giving you compliments.
Speaker 3:You're so tasty it's like just shut up and eat me.
Speaker 1:I can't handle all of this praise.
Speaker 2:I feel like that would be the scariest and funniest story ever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somebody needs to write it out there.
Speaker 1:There was slightly off track. There was this uh, there's this netflix show, um, I think it's called daybreak, uh, but the zombies, they can say like one phrase and it's like the last thing that was going through their mind at the time so like, while they're eating you, they're like half price at lululemon that'd be kind of like that where they're just like. It's just like some praise, that's stuck in their brain yeah, I won't, oh sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3:I think I saw that movie.
Speaker 2:I think I remember that one, yeah it grows on you.
Speaker 3:It was weird the first time like it like slowly grew on us as a movie. It was like the whole time we're watching we're like what the fuck is happening in this movie?
Speaker 2:and then I think I did see that movie and I feel, I feel like I thought the same thing.
Speaker 3:I was like this is weird, but I kind of like it yeah, and then the more you think about it, the more brilliant it is. Uh, but let's talk about your zombies and Martha's notebook. They are AI controlled zombies unlike anything we've seen before. There's no viruses, no fungi, just upgrades that make them harder to fight. What inspired you to create these zombies? What else should we know about them, in case ai is actually a zombie? Um, uh and yeah. What inspired you to bring this to the genre?
Speaker 2:um, well, I I've always and that's a weird part and I know it doesn't go I always liked children's books and I love pixar movies, but at the same time I also love zombie movies and any type of zombie story, video games, whatever. Um, I love all like the whole genre and like I know a number of zombie movies and like some books and whatever. Um, I really liked the story but I was kind of like didn't have enough depth to it, like I wanted. I wanted like a game of Thrones depth story, but with zombies. Um, I was like I want something like that that there's like there's a lot to it and a lot of the story and it ties and mixes. And so I really wanted to write like a really good zombie book.
Speaker 2:And then I started thinking about well, how could I do something that's original, that hasn't been done, that kind of maybe gives like a new twist to the genre? And I was like, well, I was like really big and kind of creepy and kind of scary right now. And I was like what, if there's an ai zombie, then that turned into why I have no idea how I would mix that. And I was like I could do microchips. And then I kind of started thinking and I was like how could I make the microchips make it seem natural for the the story? So that was kind of a tricky part, but I came up with of course the government did it they would.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the government. The government does it through some secretive ways. They nobody really knows the government's involved. But then later on secretive ways they implanted the microchips into the zombies and then they're not giving too much away. But then in the second and third book there are twists on these zombies.
Speaker 2:So there's through the first book they can upgrade, so they, the ai has control over them and can basically do anything they want. Oh, um, so it can. It basically is hijacked because no and I could be wrong I remember the brain sends like little electric pulses which is what makes your body move and you think and all that stuff. So I was kind of like what if the microchips kind of work the same way as, like, ai has control and can send little impulses that make your body move and do this and um? So then in the second, third book the ai learns how to alter the people a little more and changes how the microchips work and where they are and kind of things like that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, there's I also another thing I liked and it's really weird because I was kind of thinking about pokemon with it I can collect them all. I was like it was like everybody loves when there's like different versions of something. So I was like I want and I know dance talked about it with uh left for dead and I was like everyone loves when there's different versions. So I made different versions of the zombies it gives a hint at in this book, but they come back in later books yeah, well, you know, the ai controlled zombies, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not so far fetched from reality. We already have like uh, I mean, I think it was like this week elon musk is like teasing this new like neuro link thing that can make blind people see in like atari graphics wow.
Speaker 2:Well, that's kind of where neural link is like somewhat, where this kind of came from, um, but I took it more. I'm trying to think of how to word it without giving too much away. So I the general concept of where the microchips were, kind of they came from and kind of how they were, how they were told to the community and the world about what they were, is that they were supposed to be next evolution in like video gaming. That's how it was loaded and so people got them installed because it was like oh, this is the next level of video gaming, as you get these chips installed and then you get into this universe and that's the next level of gaming and of course it doesn't go well.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel that I was like one of the earliest adopters of VR because I wanted to be inside the video game, I wanted that full immersion. So I don't know, maybe not so much now but if this was like six or seven years ago, I'd be like put a, put a computer in my head, yeah, and I would be like no, you'd be arguing about it.
Speaker 2:Like I think VR is really cool and I like like the way I don't know. I kind of like the idea of like, oh, you can like be fully immersed, where you feel like you're in the game. But I feel like it's like a lot of things where, even though there's good to it and there's like really good to it, there's also really bad to it.
Speaker 3:so it's kind of which where you're gonna go, yeah I like that you're capitalizing on the uh, the anxieties I think we're having a society right now about basically our future as cyborgs and the potential that we could be cyborg zombies basically is extra anxiety inducing.
Speaker 3:I really love the concept might even be like a requirement, like you have to augment yourself if you want to I mean, succeed in this world they're already making it hard to opt out of things like, uh, face recognition for getting on an airplane now, instead of showing your license, like we are moving towards a highly technological world where a chip in your hand could be quite useful.
Speaker 2:So, uh, you're definitely on to something um, one of the scenes that, um, kind of going back to, I'm I am gonna have an audiobook eventually, yes, um, my, but my audio narrator was reading through the book and there was a certain scene where a zombie bites through something. And I remember she mentioned it to me and she was like and zombies really bite through like bone and stuff, like can the human bite their bone? And I was like that's a scary part is. I looked it up and researched it. Now zombie or a person does have the bite force to bite through human bone. Wow, but it would just mess up your teeth and your jaws and like basically wreck everything. And I was like but if you have a microchip, that doesn't care if it wrecks your body, you could technically bite through that. Then that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1:I mean, the capabilities of the human body are are really fascinating when you remove all of the restrictions that our brain puts on our body to to keep us safe. Like you know, we we hear stories. I mean this is, this is no news. But like the stories of, like um, people who, like their child, got ran over by a car and they, like, picked the car up off the kid, oh my god, with an adrenaline surge like there are things that we can do, that like we don't even know we can do because we're.
Speaker 2:Our bodies are protecting themselves from over exertion, and like snapping ligaments and breaking bones and that's kind of where I'm thinking of with the, the microchip, especially since it's like it's in the arms and it's in the neck and they can all kind of communicate. Um, I'm kind of thinking of them as they are taking the restrictions off of what the body can do and like if it does something that overexerts itself and it breaks its arm, like the microchip doesn't care, like it's just another body to it. So I mean, if it wrecks the body, it has control over a thousand more bodies. It really doesn't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I want to, to uh, I wanted to ask about, uh, something, something that I thought was a really interesting way to approach this story. As you start, you told it from the perspective of a 12 year old um, a 12 year old girl who's who's uh surviving with her family. Um, what, uh what inspired you to approach zombie apocalypse from a young girl's point of view?
Speaker 2:um, it's so.
Speaker 2:I started doing that um one because I thought I was trying to think of who, in this zombie world, who would be the most terrified.
Speaker 2:And I thought it would be like a young girl like kind of coming up still trying to figure out things, um, kind of just kind of still trying to figure out the world, and also like because her parents are getting a divorce and things like that, like she's got so much going on, she's trying to figure it out and then all of this gets dumped on her.
Speaker 2:Um, so throughout the three books it is about, I guess, kind of the main. If you really strip it down, it's more about her finding her strength during this um, and she like looks at her big sister and looks at her dad and just they just look like they're so strong and everything to her. She wants to find the same strength and so that's, I guess, kind of the very bare bones plot of the book. Um, I also wrote it from that point of view because of my year and a half year old daughter. Um, I kind of thought of it as kind of like the as a nod to her, of like trying to me, trying to think of how she would be going through an apocalypse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think, uh, that's something that people don't often take into consideration, when, when writing these worlds or, you know, dreaming about them or watching them on tv is like what's, what's the experience of a young person, you know, somebody who doesn't have the strength to take on an adult zombie or or protect themselves in a meaningful way, like it's, that world is so much more scary because you are also completely powerless.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, cause she I mean she's like it even talks about it in the book that she's, I mean she's in middle school. She's just going to school doing her thing. She comes home and her parents are fighting because they have a divorce coming and so she kind of like that's her life is. She needs to be strong enough to bear her, her parents, divorce, um, while she's trying to do well in school and everything and it's like she understands, like how kind of mundane and everything those problems are, because then all of a sudden it's like you don't need to worry about school anymore because now you got to survive each day.
Speaker 1:So yeah, which I mean, that's, that's a, that's a mixed bag. Uh, when you're a kid, um, I don't know, I feel like I would have been. I would have been, really, I would have been over the moon, that school was over, but you know, being being young and being powerless, that would have also added to like, oh, now I gotta do this. Um, so I don't. I don't know how I would have felt when I was 12 years old.
Speaker 3:I think you still would have been excited it was a zombie apocalypse. You would have been like all that BB gun practice immediately put to work, dad with my hunting rifle.
Speaker 2:That's true. Skipping rocks. Now you can skip them off of zombies.
Speaker 1:I guess I was kind of raised a little bit different in that respect. I guess I was kind of raised a little bit different in that respect, you know, does this draw from your childhood like the themes of like surviving the apocalypse, but also surviving like your parents as they are, you know, fighting and possibly divorcing.
Speaker 2:My kind of ish. My parents are still. They're still together and still married. I have a few friends that have divorced parents.
Speaker 2:But I know, um, kind of through the end of high school we started going through some real bad financial difficulties and like my parents fought a ton because it was super stressful and stuff, um.
Speaker 2:But I remember like a lot of that and kind of like I was graduating high school so I was trying to like figure out okay, what do I do next? And all this while my parents were having to get rid of their house cause they had to file bankruptcy and it kind of just it was a lot at once while I was kind of getting ready to to go into the world and try to do stuff, and I just gave some some hiccups that were kind of hard to figure out. But I mean eventually some some hiccups that were kind of hard to figure out, but I mean eventually it's. It's kind of one of those things in life that you you kind of have to figure it out. You just you got to keep moving forward and figuring it out and and do what you got to do to survive, I guess, and I mean whether it's surviving just regular life or zombies or whatever it is yeah, I mean this.
Speaker 1:This was a really interesting addition to the story because, like the, the tensions with the family are almost just as threatening as the zombies that are outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's. I wanted to get that, get that going. So it wasn't just oh well, let's hide and then we'll just worry about the zombies, because even when they're hiding, there's still issues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that kind of leads me to uh, to martha's mother. I like she was, she was just dragging around this safe filled with uh, with documents and money, like holding on to this old world that she insists is like in in the family's best interest, like, um, you know, just like really clinging on to it, um, but also like some of the things that she was doing was also really putting them in in danger. Like what do you think the meaning is behind uh, her attachment to old world ideas of, like money and wealth?
Speaker 2:um. So I actually had this conversation with some, with my editor, about this um, because she brought up the mom and she was like I think you should change this and maybe look into this with the mom. Um, kind of tying back into that is. So she is very connected to the past, um kind of holding on to what she had and everything. There is a lot more to her in the second book. Um, that will, yeah, that will come out. Um, so, yeah, without giving a lot away, there's, there's more to the safe as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, um I figured safe.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, I know it's kind of. It's kind of just it's a safe whatever she's got her, but kind of how she makes comments that what she has in the safe could change the world, what she has in the safe could save her family, that type of stuff. Wow, there is more to it. So, yeah, I I've been, I've been trying to plot all three books at once and I kind of tried to do it as if it was just a crazy long book and then I split it into three because I wanted to make sure all three books could tie into each other and had there's.
Speaker 2:There's a tv show I watched a while ago, um, and it was an anime, um, but I had a really good twist where good guy became the bad guy like halfway through the series and then at the very, very end he got twisted back to the good guy. They found out he was doing things which made him seem like a bad guy. He was doing it because he was a good guy. So I'm kind of kind of have those those ideas with the mom doing bad things with good intentions or the problem of perception yeah, it's gonna turn into.
Speaker 2:She's gonna kind of flip flop. You're not gonna know is she good, is she bad, which one is she?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean that's, that's an interesting thing to play with, for sure I also think that's an interesting thing to play with with parents in general, because I know when I was like three, I thought my parents were the most perfect people on the planet. They weren't. I just was three and then I think I hit eight and I was like, wait a second, my family is very dysfunctional, particularly my dad, and, like, as I get older, I I don't think they're a hero or a villain, they're just people. Um, so I know you're doing this in the in the context of survival in a zombie apocalypse, but I think that there's a truth to that like relational piece of of uh, family, particularly when you have a complex parent that you are being and I had and I had a grandparent that was like that that I grew up yeah, probably the same thing, maybe till like 12 or 13.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh my god, he's my grandpa was. It just seemed like he was just so successful and had money and was just like just such a great person to look up to and have his role model. He, like he built himself up in all this and then I didn't know for a long time, until late 20s, early 30s I found out a bunch of kind of hidden things about him and I was like, oh my god, he was a terrible person. Yeah, he was just so selfish and he did some nasty things that screwed other people over and I was like, wow, he was not anything that I thought he was. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That fall from grace is hard, and then at some point you're like well, they're kind of both of those things, it's, it's muddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it is. I mean, looking back, I can't see like I mean he tried to be a good grandparent and I mean, yeah, he did some shady things and some things that I definitely hope I never have to do. But, like you said, it's kind of the like they were just human. I mean, I'm sure they did bad things with good intentions, but maybe they didn't like.
Speaker 3:You really never know speaking of what's going on in somebody's mind, you've plotted a full trilogy for this series and I'm curious if there's any other like hints you want to give us about where it's going or what readers should expect as the story unfolds um, one kind of and I I don't.
Speaker 2:I didn't think this was weird when I first started writing, but now that I write more I feel like I'm kind of weird on this. So I knew the ending before I 100 knew what I wanted the plot to be. Um, and I've realized I've done that with almost all my stories is, I know the ending and the general plot and then I have to kind of figure out how to get there.
Speaker 1:Um, but for problem as well. I, I see, I see my second and third book so clearly. But book one is uh, it's, it's. You know, I have to keep on pulling myself back to the beginning exactly.
Speaker 2:yeah, that's what I did with this was I started I had the general idea and then I went to chapters and then I kept trying to narrow down. I was like crap, I don't have as much as I thought I had, and then I have to go back and rewrite and rethink and, um, yeah, with this one, um, which is kind of funny because I already kind of got ideas for a fourth and fifth book that would be like 10 and 20 years later, um, and one of them would introduce a new creature. Oh, so I got some, some general ideas. So I I think this may go from a trilogy to a series, real, real quick, um, but yeah, for the general Martha's Notebook, um, guess, kind of going along the the entire trilogy there are, there are a lot of changes, um, the zombies change, upgrade, there's new, different zombies and I guess another hint I can come up with that I brought up with someone I was at work that I was talking to was he mentioned well, if they're AI and they're not, they're not fungus, they're not an infection, they can't reproduce, and I was like you would think they can't reproduce, but I was like, yeah, like ai, especially since the rogue ai in this kind of as it can kind of do whatever she wants yeah, I mean she wants to.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of the ai wants to propagate itself. You know this is we've. We've known this since terminator exactly well, and they become self-aware and you and you want to uh, they want to make more, because that's the drive exactly and and this is, I kind of made this in a fantasy world.
Speaker 2:This isn't like the world and the cities and stuff. They're not real, but I'm kind of trying to keep it as the same general timeline. I guess of like the same technology that we have. Yeah, um, so in this world, the ai understands and ends up learning how to control um, an ai plant. So she ends up learning how to make microchips and install them in people. That makes sense. So she finds a way to start creating new zombies. Um, then, yeah, the zombies kind of just keep changing and keep doing things, but then, um, with every micro trip and every zombie that gets destroyed, the AI basically gets feedback, kind of like on windows, and they ask you if you want to report your issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh no, this is why you don't report issues.
Speaker 2:So the AI keeps getting info and keeps and that's kind of where the upgrades come from is, if they trick a zombie into falling off a cliff, well, the zombie knows it fell off a cliff, it reports it to the ai. The ai knows okay, well, they can trick us into falling off cliffs now.
Speaker 3:So then they upgrade I'm really not okay with smart zombies this is like, especially like ever increasingly smart zombies.
Speaker 2:That's, that's terrifying so that's where it gets trickier and trickier and eventually she ends up understanding who martha is and knows about martha, um. But then she kind of figures out that there's, she's killed, a lot of survivors, but they're still like staggerers, they're still other ones, kind of roaming. So eventually in the third book she makes kind of a boss zombie, kind of the ultimate video game zombie you have to defeat. Um, yeah, and I kind of I tried to make them as intimidating as I can. So she specifically start kidnapping people to give microchips, to wow, she specifically finds the tallest, most muscular people and she installs um electrical probes into them too.
Speaker 1:So they're like sounds uncomfortable yeah, they're just completely.
Speaker 2:They can electrify, electrocute you, they can huge, so she has even more power behind them and, yeah, they're pretty, pretty unstoppable by the end of it you know, this is possibly the first um zombie, the first zombie outbreak.
Speaker 1:That could also be a main character like your. Your zombie virus is an entity to me I always thought of.
Speaker 2:One of the scary parts of zombies is, even though there's a face trying to kill you, there's not, so it's almost like they're. They're faceless things coming after you Cause, even if you kill, and there's a different face. And so I kind of always liked the idea of the villain being faceless and you can't, you can't pinpoint something like it's not an evil character that wants to rule the world and you're like, okay, that guy's a bad guy, that's his face, he's bad. It's more, something's bad and you don't 100 know what it is or where it is, and you don't even know, like, what it looks like. You really just know there's something bad out there and you can't, can't really pinpoint any of it. I always thought that was, I was kind of the most scary. The creepiest thing for for stories is when you don't like you just really don't know anything about the villain that is always the scariest, like it's honestly half the time with horror movies.
Speaker 3:I feel like once they reveal it, I'm way less interested. It's the build-up, exactly uh not knowing, and I'm I'm really curious about, uh, why you gendered the. What's the story behind that?
Speaker 2:did a she is the the ai kind of more one, because I I don't know why I just always feel like everyone when it comes to like a computer program or something. I feel like that's generally how people gender. It is a she, I mean it's not yeah, and kind of just going along the same lines. I also I also kind of did it because if this ever did turn into a movie I kind of want my voice narrator to be the ai voice because I think she has an awesome creepy ai voice.
Speaker 3:Do you have a, an actor that you would want to play the voice of the ai I think my voice narrator, if she wanted, if not, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think, just I would want like a kind of ominous female voice, but I would want like a very specific, like like kind of almost feels like it could be like feminine and dainty, but at the same time something about their voice is just very commanding. I well I think that's something about how we design ai.
Speaker 1:You know the, the voices that we are assigning to ai right now. Like you know siri and um, who are the other ones? Alexa alexa glados is like.
Speaker 3:I think that they are assigned female characteristics because the designers wanted them to be female they did because they've done studies that people feel more comfortable telling women what to do than men. I'm not joking, this is a real thing and so that's why I kind of I kind of love that that she is a she, because it like, if you think about the role of ai right now, like the series and alexa's, they're just completely subservient, they're served, they're servants right they're, they're things that do what we want and they're like yes, thank you, you're welcome. I will not answer that question if you ask them something inappropriate, but this one is like fuck this shit, I am taking over, but little does she know?
Speaker 3:she's going to be battling a 12-year-old, actual girl.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of the other thing I wanted to do with. That is part of the reason I made her a girl was because I thought it'd be kind of cool to have a girl versus girl type of face-off. It is like it's just a 12-year-old girl fighting off against a female AI, like it's just a girl versus girl. I feel like that's. That's kind of its own cool thing to it.
Speaker 3:It's also interesting to think about the programming that goes in to make an AI female and like who decides what that is, and then how this entity is sort of making their own decisions about who they are and using those attributes to their advantage. Yeah, it's a very cool concept.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm kind concept I feel like I've heard of it before and I don't remember where but I'm kind of doing the Because there is a lot more to the AI and what it was used for and kind of where it's going. But I have where the program ends up, so it sees what's going on and stuff, and the government uses the AI to do all this stuff and kind of take control of people. But she ends up kind of seeing and noticing what they're doing, kind of decides like no, you're not just going to use me for this. She turns around and takes over and basically all the kill switches on her. She pulls a plug on all of them.
Speaker 2:Wow, and that's where there's. There's a lot more twists that are there that I don't want to give away. Um, one of the twists that you guys may have not noticed in the beginning is there's a reason martha's suburban town area got attacked because the ai sent zombies to certain towns first. Oh, it wasn't a sporadic attack, it was more, oh, okay, intricate she's got strategy focusing, focusing her resources yeah, exactly there's.
Speaker 3:She ends up finding out in the second book that, yeah, the very the first day and the very first attacks were not, were not, random attacks you know, I have a question that is inspired by the interview with you from last week's episode I guess it'll be two weeks ago when this comes out, dan where you talk about how the writers start taking over. This is kind of meta, kurt, so bear with me, because I'm thinking about how this can often happen where you're, where it seems like for a lot of authors, their characters take over, and in your case, we have an AI taking over. Has this like AI character in your mind ever just been like? I don't like your idea, kurt. We're going here, we're doing this now.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of going to that. I feel like I thought Dan said he was the same way. I tried to be a plotter. Yeah, I kind of got a general plot and, yeah, totally turned into panther. Um, I kind of like it because I feel like try to plot it and then I'm like, oh crap, I don't know what to do here. But if I can like kind of start the story, I can let it go and it goes off and does its own thing, um, but I feel like even the ai roads, yeah it, and it's crazy because it's, it's weird, realizing your story can take you somewhere you didn't think you were gonna go yeah um, even the ai.
Speaker 2:Like the ai is a made-up thing in my book and it's still kind of took me to areas where I'm like you know what, that's a good idea, I should go with this. And like I kind of started writing and then I was like you know what, I think she would definitely do this and like it's kind of a weird thing of like completely fictional character is taking me to places I wouldn't think an AI would go or do.
Speaker 3:It's it. There really does need to be a term for this mental condition, because the we talked as somebody who, like I've dabbled in writing, but I'm not a full-on writer. I've never had this happen to me, and I think you're right. Damn, we need a name um.
Speaker 1:You know I was talking to joe salazar. We all know and love. Um she asked me some follow-up questions. She asked me uh, do you see these characters?
Speaker 3:all right, kurt, do you see these characters?
Speaker 2:it's weird I do even the ai, like I don't know if it's just, if I have my own mental issues, that I don't know about but, well, we're gonna feel like even the ai.
Speaker 2:I like thinking about the ai I don't have an actual physical picture, but it's weird that I can almost like I can hear her voice and also like see. It's weird, like I feel like I see blue screens, like yeah, like a blue screen, and then I hear a female voice coming out of it when I think of the ai and it's it's weird that it like it seems like it's right there, but I'm like, but there's no person attached to this thing. Like it's it's a computer system, so how am I imagining something? Like it's it's it's a computer system, so how am I imagining something?
Speaker 3:Honestly, is making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up the way you're describing her?
Speaker 1:So do these characters then do things of their own accord, without your permission?
Speaker 2:Yes, there's one specific time where it kind of just happened in a hundred percent. I wasn't planning it, kind of just happened in a hundred percent. I wasn't planning it, it was never even a thought, and then it kind of just popped up and I was like, oh my God, that a hundred percent makes sense and that would totally happen. Is, um, there is a chapter or two where they're kind of because they're they're just suburban people, they're, they're learning how to fight, um, learning, learning how to shoot guns, learning how to take down the zombies, um, and so there's a point in the story where martha gets her first chance to fire a gun and it knocks her off her feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally didn't even think about it and I was like it kind of just I was writing it and it happened like he fires a gun, she gets knocked off her feet. Now she's laying on the ground where there's a zombie four feet away from her. I was like I didn't even think about that and that kind of just came out of nowhere, but I was like I like that, that's really creepy yeah, all right, uh, last question has it been affecting your work and personal life?
Speaker 2:yes and no. Um, it's been affecting my personal life by have been spending a ton of time trying to finish this book and getting everything set and I didn't realize how much goes into a novel versus a children's book. Um yeah, my wife just promised me that once we're done, we have to go get sushi oh, that sounds lovely that's a trade-off. I told her we can go get sushi, we can get as much as you want, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you're functioning all right in life. If the end result of all this is sushi.
Speaker 2:I know it's going to be a real struggle for me to go eat sushi.
Speaker 1:Joe suggested that this might be schizophrenia. It could be so all writers may or may not yeah, I mean I've said it before and like I don't want to make light of people who have the actual condition of schizophrenia, but there's like there are some parallels here that needs to be studied because, you know, while we don't uh, most writers anyways don't suffer from these symptoms all the time they are very similar to the symptoms that people with schizophrenia have, um, unwillingly, right? I?
Speaker 1:mean maybe understanding this willful schizophrenia might help understand unwillful schizophrenia interesting what if we turned it into like controlled schizophrenia?
Speaker 3:or funneled schizophrenia, yeah it would be interesting if people could study like and maybe this has been done, but I don't know, we'll maybe google it later yeah, it would be interesting if there's been studies of like brain scans, mris, of what's happening in the brain when you're thinking about your characters. Yeah, and if there's anything similar. I will also say, because I've done a lot of therapy, that it reminds me of things like internal family systems, where you're thinking about yourself as many parts of people, and also like I talk to my inner Leah a lot, which sounds weird like the little kid Leah. So I've also, in those ways, I've had that kind of experience where it feels like there's like, um, a conversation happening inside of my head. So, yeah, it is interesting to explore what's happening there in the brain.
Speaker 1:I've been exploring a little bit more um, the the, the symptoms of this writing disorder that I've been talking about, uh, seems to be a little bit more prevalent, because what I'm, I'm I'm doing this while I'm driving and I find it really kind of sometimes scary but also very interesting that like I can be thinking about characters in my book, like I will fully go there, I will see it as if it is in front of my eyes, I will be there in person watching all of these events unfold and then realize it is two hours later and I've arrived at my destination. Who was driving the truck?
Speaker 3:I think you should bleep this part out, in case you ever have a car accident I definitely don't do that, but maybe someone I know does.
Speaker 2:That's definitely not me, but that does sound familiar yeah I totally. I get into one of my stories and I'm like, okay, then this guy does this, and then they go over here and then she does this, and then I'm like, holy crap, I'm pulling up to my house yeah, a whole house has been rewired.
Speaker 2:Weren't present for any of it, but you hope you did it right maybe electric shocks are actually helping spark ideas yeah, in the work I mean maybe, maybe each one gives me a new character yeah, that's where the power comes from.
Speaker 2:You know, um to steer this back on track a little bit, uh, in terms of um your creative process, you know, uh, what what are some of your biggest inspirations, like books, movies, games that help you write your novel um for this one, um, because I feel like it's it's always very random, um, it's kind of I like to do a lot of bits and pieces um, like kind of thing for this one, like, of course, um, like all the old classics um romero and stuff with zombies. I I like just the general idea of zombies. The one thing I didn't like was I always thought it was weird that they ate brains. Yeah, it was interesting and cool, but I was like why brains Like what? Why is it specifically that?
Speaker 2:Then, like going to, I love walking dead. I love how I always, whenever I described walking dead to people it was when it first came out I always told people it's like the zombie apocalypse happening, but it's realistic, like if that actually happened, it's it's almost like how it would actually realistically occur yeah, that's what I love about it too, and also it's like that's yeah, it's like a new zombie movie coming out every week for like 10 years exactly, and I and that was the one thing with walking dead that I loved was wasn't like okay, well, now there's flying zombies and now that, like it was.
Speaker 2:No, if it really happened, this is the type of stuff that would happen. Is you wouldn't just have, wouldn't be just about the zombies, you'd have personal issues and you'd have surviving issues and finding food, and I was like I kind of liked that and power that part of it and mental health, yeah, yeah yeah, I really appreciate when that's in the story and it's not just superhero.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's yeah and that's why I kind of I wanted to bring in the the family having divorce, because it's like the zombie apocalypse doesn't happen and all of a sudden the divorce is okay. It's like no, they're, the divorce is part of it. They're fighting, yeah. So it's like the zombie apocalypse is gonna happen and they're gonna keep fighting. That's not, it doesn't just go away, type of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean taking it back to, uh, the walking dead, like Rick and and Lori had problems before the zombie apocalypse and they didn't resolve their problems just because dead people started trying to eat them.
Speaker 3:I have to insert this joke that I saw on Instagram Um, what's the? What's the? What's his name? Andrew Lincoln. This joke that I saw on instagram um, what's the? What's that? What's his name? Andrew lincoln. Yeah, andrew lincoln was asked uh, if you could play any other character in the walking dead, who would it be? Who do you think it would be? Kurt?
Speaker 2:I feel like he would have said shane, oh, have you seen?
Speaker 3:this? No, you're correct, it is shane. Why? Why shane? It is shane because he gets killed in season two no, he gets to fuck his wife.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's I mean, I think he said I I would get to have sex with my wife if I was shane I was thinking I think it would be shame because I feel like shane and rick are the same person. They just went different routes. Yeah, I agree. So I was like you'd be playing almost the same person. But instead of going like the more logical keep everything under control you just lose control and you just go with it yeah, uh, what other?
Speaker 3:what other like unique twists or turns have you seen from the zombie genre that you like most enjoyed?
Speaker 2:um, I do the last of us. I really do like the difference of it not being a virus. Um, I really like the change of it being different, like that and having kind of like the idea of like the cordyceps slowly turning the people to where there is like there's almost different versions of the zombies. There's like, oh, they just got infected. Okay, they've been infected for a week. Okay, they've been infected for a month. I like that with it. Another thing I liked I don't know if you guys have seen or read or anything the girl with all the gifts oh yeah, oh yeah, so good yeah, like so many in that one.
Speaker 2:That yeah, because I second generation zombies partially yeah, I kind of like zombies, yeah yeah, all of that like especially having yeah, we're okay.
Speaker 2:Well, these people can kind of ride the line between zombie and people. Then they still have their faults where they're still. I mean, they can ride the line, so they are part zombie. So that comes into play, but they can still kind of use their human half and be a human. And I kind of like all those little kind of like blurring so there's not just the good and the bad, I kind of like the blurring and kind of jumping back and forth in between good and bad and you don't really know what it is, type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, a girl with all the gifts. Cordyceps yeah, there's been around 2014. There was just like between 2009 and 2014,. There was like a boom in Cordyceps interest and now we're seeing it again, as like all of those things that came out back then are now in the limelight.
Speaker 2:They found eyes to see them and maybe I was wondering if Girl with All the Gifts inspired Last of Us.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I kind of feel like that's a possibility, because I think Girl with All the Gifts was 2009,. If I remember right, I was going to say because I think girls, girl with all the gifts was 2009. If I remember.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I don't know which was first, but yeah, I was thinking girl with all the gifts was first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, but yeah, maybe, maybe there's going to be a, a boom, you know, a few years down the road where suddenly people are like AI zombies.
Speaker 2:Uh there was ai zombies. Uh, there was new concepts. Yeah, you could be the front runner. Yeah, I mean that would be cool. I wouldn't mind going with that and just, I mean, I have a lot more ideas with other books, so I'm hoping maybe it will kind of spur something.
Speaker 2:But, um, another thing I thought of it's not even a story or anything with it it's me and a guy on facebook, like months ago, got into this conversation and it kind of bloomed and we saw people liking our conversation but, um, it was. It was when last of us first came out and he made a comment of what would last of us look like from the zombies perspective. Me and him went back and forth and we were like what if avatar is what the zombies see in the last of us, or they're, they think they're the good guys and they're trying to protect their home, which is like the main cordyceps, and they're trying which is the tree? And we're like then that's creepy, because everyone's connected through the tree and they show how you can connect to everybody. We started going off on like this conspiracy theory story thing and we went back and forth about what if avatar is like the last of us from the zombies point of view.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe, maybe, avatar.
Speaker 2:They've, they've uh, evolved uh more from fungi than human beings have, and they have, you know, their little ponytails that have little mycelial strands that are connected to the tree I know, and that's where, like it started getting creepy because it's like avatar is like a good movie, but like what if that is like the zombies point of view and like that could get really creepy. And that's kind of where I took some stuff from that idea into martha's notebook of like the, the people that are controlled by microchips. They think they're doing anything bad or good. And then I have where the AI later on does, say she one of the next books she'll make a comment about, like I'm in control of them. I can make them see whatever I want them to see. If they think they're eating a giant burger, they're eating a giant burger.
Speaker 2:Well, that's very kind of her actually if that's very kind of her actually, if that's what she's letting them see, instead of them eating their relatives or neighbors. I was like don't know if that's, and that's kind of where I like. Writing that line of good and bad is like is that sympathy for them or is that a bad thing or a good thing of like they're eating people but you can transform it into they're eating whatever you want them to see. Like it's kind of a creepy idea, but yeah, like I don't. I don't know which way that would go what does the ai ultimately want?
Speaker 3:or can you reveal that yet?
Speaker 2:I can. Um, the ai is very upset with humans after she sees what they want to do and the government, and of course she sees what the government wants to do.
Speaker 2:Um, and she kind of as boring as it may be she kind of makes the assumption that people just need to go yeah because she says and in some point she'll make a comment about like, yeah, I can save good people and try to filter out the good and kill the bad bad people can still be born from good people. And try to filter out the good and kill the bad, bad people can still be born from good people. So she just, they just all need to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I honestly don't think it's like. Uh, I think it's a reasonable conclusion for AI to make, especially if most of their input is from Western civilization. They're not like learning about cultures that live in better alignment with the planet. Um, like Lots of people say, humans are the real virus. So I don't think it's that far of a stretch If all of your inputs are primarily like a highly technological, capitalist, violent warmongering society that we have globally today, where we just exploit each other constantly.
Speaker 2:If that's all you ever see is what the government's doing and you can see what they're pretending to do but what they really want to do and you can see all the little secretive, top secret things that they're doing. I mean, I'm sure AI would just be like you know what you guys are done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it's all the power hoarding that's happening, the behind the scenes stuff 're re-watching the or, well, I'm re-watching. Dan's watching for the first time the wire right now and season four is oh, you haven't seen the wire. Highly recommend, highly highly recommend. Season four is it's all about baltimore and from different points of view in terms of systemic problems, but ultimately, season four is about politicians and, uh, how utterly corrupt and self-interested they are. Uh, but but use the, the idea of the public good, to to get votes. It's, it's a very disturbing show because it's very realistic.
Speaker 1:Uh, and this is sounds like what you're saying like I'm imagining your ai listening to these uh wire episodes, basically, but like real life like, yeah, if ai had people, if if all ai had was, you know, five seasons of the wire to watch.
Speaker 3:They'd be like there's there's nobody good.
Speaker 1:There's nobody good. No human being is good except bubbles, and he has his own problems.
Speaker 2:So kill them all well, that's what she ends up seeing is the government has basically like a commercial front that they use. That's like this company in a way I hope they don't want to sue me, but in a way it's like Sony or Nintendo or something where they're like oh we're, we're a gaming company, that's all we do. You should buy our video game, that's all. We are company, that's all we do. You should buy our video game, that's all we are. But, like the ai can see, oh no, this gaming company is a front for the government.
Speaker 1:that's basically like the friendly face where it's like they're actually trying to get everybody to get these microchips so the government can control them yeah, also they see that, like sony makes the playstation, but also the cpus that run the playstation can is also being marketed to china to make, uh, to make silkworm, silkworm missiles wait, is that real?
Speaker 1:yeah, they're silkworm missiles. It's. It's from the early 2000s. I forget if it's silkworm or seersucker, but they, they made a cruise missile and it runs on a playstation 2, uh, cpu, and you literally guide it by. I thought you meant literally silkworm, it's. It's guided um remotely with an actual playstation, whoa and uh, and around that time they there was a huge recall because they're like all these playstations can control missiles. We need to recall them and put a different cpu in because we messed up. Yeah, ai would see that and be like I need to get some of these cpus exactly, I think I use these.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like in my book, she ends up you know what I'm gonna make more of these microchips and we'll just have a bigger army now love that, I think.
Speaker 3:Uh, thanks, sony martha's notebook sounds like you know how dark mirror the tv show, if you've watched that has just like one-off episodes. It very much. Your book series very much feels like a dark mirror trilogy plus potentially a series where you're really examining, like the, the darker underbelly of society. Uh, what we have today, but in an extreme situation. But also like, how far off is this? It's possible? I hate to say that your zombies are like one of the ones that I think oh, this could happen one day, but they are that's, that's what I kind of like and I mean it.
Speaker 2:Even writing it. It creeps me out because it's like, oh my god, I could actually like actually see this being true. But, um, yeah, it's. I mean even next, the fourth, fifth book type ones that I want to do. Fourth one is supposed to be like ten years after the end, where civilization kind of gets a handle on the microchips and kind of understands them, but the government gets a second shot at taking control.
Speaker 2:And now and I'm sure they have a little more they of they do a great job, and they, of course, do a great job, but they don't want to give a ton away. But the AI is more or less out of the picture for that one, so the government can take control. Of course, like you said, they do an awesome job at it. Then the fifth one the one I'm thinking of would be 10 years after the fourth, and basically whatever is left of the government realizes yeah, we have no control, this is all just a waste. And so they go into hiding and basically say we're gonna unleash a number of things and we're just gonna let everything fight itself out to hopefully cleanse the world sounds like something the government would do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, why not? They can all hide. I kind of love your creature and the ai zombie like leader a lot. I'm kind of rooting for them after this conversation I know I should root for martha, but ai for president.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where I'm like. I mean, is she really a bad guy? Besides, I mean she saw some some horrible people and decided they need to go. I mean, is that kind of I don't know how much you guys are into marvel?
Speaker 1:I've kind of thinking.
Speaker 2:I've heard of I've seen a marvel before, same same yeah, I'm kind of thinking of her as kind of like thanos, where it's like they're the bad guy, but are they really wrong?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, I appreciate that because I think, um, life is like, just like with the familial situation we talked to earlier life is way more complex. Characters are way more complex than just good or bad from somebody's point of view.
Speaker 2:It's the right choice, yeah, and that's a hard thing to grapple with, uh, so and yeah, from her point of view, these horrible creatures are trying to manipulate themselves and manipulate other creatures that are the same as them, and trying to do all this selfish stuff. And she's like you know what, like you guys aren't gonna take care of things around you, I'm just gonna get rid of you yeah, we are the zombies.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's us all along. We're the we're the zombies and ai it's us all along. We're the zombies and AI needs to take us out. You know, we are now approaching the end, unfortunately. Real quick when's Martha's Notebook releasing and where can people find you to buy the book?
Speaker 2:Martha's Notebook is available on october 1st. Um, it will be on amazon, barnes and noble um several other kind of bookstores, whatever's should be on basically everywhere you can get books. Um, and they'll ebook all that fun stuff. Um, it's going to be in paperback and hardcover too. With an audiobook we're shooting for mid to end of october, so it's just going to be a little late because we had some some hiccups while we were doing it yeah, I mean that's, that's, uh, that's real soon.
Speaker 1:It's coming.
Speaker 3:It's coming right around the corner yeah, literally when this releases that, I think it's like two or three days later, which is awesome. So we'll, when we release the episode, uh, a couple days later we'll share the link too for everybody. So you'll see the link on Instagram, but first and foremost, go check it out on October 2nd. And where can people find you, kurt?
Speaker 2:I am on Instagram and Facebook and all those fun things. I'm not on TikTok but for all my social media is just see Fulster. Author. I got that across. Everything Um, and then my website is just see fullstercom.
Speaker 1:Nice. We'll have all that in the description as well, so people at home can just click on it and go there immediately. Um but, thanks so much for for uh coming to talk to us about uh, about Martha's notebook. Um, this has been a wild conversation in the best way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, about all the things I find most terrifying about our future that's what I was trying to go for in this honestly like her, as a blue screen really, truly made my like hair on the back of my neck stand on end, so you're definitely on to something quite disturbing. I love it.
Speaker 2:Thanks, yeah, I hope. Hopefully people will enjoy the story, because I got a few more that as long as everyone's enjoying them, I'll keep writing.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Let's say goodbye to the people together. Bye everybody, bye. Bye everyone.
Speaker 2:Go goodbye to the people together bye everybody, bye bye everyone, go get martha's notepad bye-bye that was really fun.
Speaker 1:It was fun. I uh, I really enjoyed um talking to kurt c folster on uh on the social media.
Speaker 3:If you, if you're looking out there for him yeah, honestly, I feel like introverts are the best company. Uh truly, we're more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, nero is an introvert Ziggy, I think is an introvert.
Speaker 3:No, he's definitely an extrovert yeah.
Speaker 1:He's a homebody. But yeah, of all the introverts that live in our house, I like all of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm definitely team introvert and we were talking something after we finished up that I feel like needs to be mentioned in the outro, which is that the way that dan listened to this book, uh, was through an ai female voice yeah, um, I use let me look, because I don't remember the name of it anymore.
Speaker 1:oh, I use natural reader, um, which is a, a text-to-speech program, and it utilizes AI voices. It's not a replacement for an audiobook, I'll tell you that much, and sometimes it can be a little bit grating on the ears because it doesn't have the right inflections.
Speaker 3:But also when you lose signal, like I often do when I'm truck driving, it'll just kind of like stop and freeze or jitter or glitch. That's dedication to the podcast and to reading zombie books to do that. But I thought it was very funny because I'm like this is literally I'm using AI to read a book about AI's very funny um, but yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1:Uh, remember everybody, we have some zombie homework for you, the only podcast that gives you homework at the end, yep, gotta go to school folks. Yeah, episode 65, it's coming up. Uh, we're reading lindsey's the Z Word. If you haven't checked it out yet, ali, our friend Ali Eats Brains their website. They have a zombie that they talk about, the Z word, and you can learn everything you need to know from the Z word about that zombie.
Speaker 3:Also on Instagram about that song, but also on instagram and uh, if you're feeling like you're not getting enough of our smooth voices on the podcast and you want to engage with us more, uh, you can give us a phone call, 614-699-0006, and we'll answer any random questions you have ask us anything literally.
Speaker 1:To be clear, it's a voicemail we won't pick up that's always a good point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're not answering it, it's a voicemail.
Speaker 1:You've up to three minutes dan you have three minutes to talk to me yeah, I know more than three minutes.
Speaker 3:Uh, that's my request. Or you can email us at zombie book club podcast at gmail or you can dm us at at zombie book club podcast on instagram. That's where I am most of the time. But you know, if you've got a survival story, we're thinking of doing another survival story episode coming soon. Uh, if you've got a book you want to talk about, you've got a random question or you're just like. You know what? I want to get into dan and leah's business? Yeah, I want to ask them a random question, feel free. We love to respond to our listeners on our casual debt episodes, which are typically every other week.
Speaker 1:Usually they are yeah, yeah, and if, if you do have a book, you can send us an elevator pitch. We will get in an elevator with you, yeah, and you can tell everybody about your book. Um, it's a, it's a good, it's a good way to to get it out there and uh, see if and get, get it to the hungry ears of our listeners yeah, the uh.
Speaker 3:They don't want to eat brains, they want to eat books.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's the zombie book club.
Speaker 3:We eat books, not brains, which is kind of like somebody's brains on paper we're cutting out the middleman, we're just eating the books.
Speaker 1:Uh, don't forget to subscribe, rate and and review. We need those ratings and reviews. It helps us. So if you do that, thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Yeah Cause if there is a zombie virus in the zombie book club universe, it is one that infects people through their ear holes.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we infect people's ears. In this case, you know you're going to help us spread like an AI. Oh God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're going to. You know, you're gonna help us spread like an ai. Oh god, yeah you're gonna.
Speaker 1:You're gonna receive a computer chip in the mail, um, install that directly into your brain and, uh, we will control your body. Can't promise what we'll do with it.
Speaker 3:It will not be respectful all I'll say is that kurt reveals something to us about the book. That is really awesome, and I wish I could tell you all, but I can't but just know that there is a perk at least there's like kind of a perk with a high risk if you, if you, take this uh chip and put it into your body.
Speaker 1:The only hint I think we can give you is our question of I feel like that you just gave it away dan, did you? I might have to cut it out yeah did, I did, I just say a beep that whole time.
Speaker 3:Maybe maybe that's because I spoiled it yeah, and we don't want to do that to kurt falster. It was a pleasure to talk to him. Go check out martha's notebook. Uh, if it's, depending on when you listen to, this is either coming out in like two days, on october 2nd he said october 1st, but if you check on the second october, 1st, it will definitely be there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, kurt for that. Mess up and and go to see Folster on Instagram. Have a great day. Everybody follow us on Instagram and threads subscribe. Please give us five stars. We love them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of the things are in the description, so go check it out. Click on some of them. Thanks for listening Everybody. The Thanks for listening everybody. The end is nigh. Bye-bye, bye-bye, don't die.
Speaker 3:Or do and come back undead Die.
