Zombie Book Club
Welcome to Zombie Book Club! We're a Podcast that's also a book club! We talk about Zombie / Apocalyptic horror novels, TV and movies.
Zombie Book Club
RETURN To Avalon Comic with Special Guest Brandon Starocci | Zombie Book Club Ep 60
In this episode of Zombie Book Club, we welcome back Brandon Starocci, creator of the Avalon comic series, to dive into the latest developments in his post-apocalyptic world. Brandon shares his creative journey over the past year, touching on the emotional challenges of writing a zombie apocalypse and the personal connections that shape the Castle family’s story. We also explore the unique symbolism and intricate artwork behind Avalon, discussing everything from hidden Easter eggs to artist Dimitris' striking black-and-white-red palette.
Brandon reveals the music that fuels his creative process, and we discuss the importance of representing characters with disabilities in a realistic and meaningful way. We also get a sneak peek at Avalon Issue 6 and learn about the exciting community-building events that have been integral to Avalon’s success. Whether you're a die-hard fan or new to the series, this episode is packed with insights into the Avalon universe and Brandon’s creative process.
Avalon Comic Website:
https://avaloncomic.com
Avalon Comic Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/avaloncomic/avalon-issue-1-6
Avalon On Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/avaloncomic/
Comic Cover Art by Dimitris Nastos:
https://www.instagram.com/dimina__/
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Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book has words, but those words are pictures, and those pictures are worth a thousand words, which is really great return on investment if you really think about it. I'm Dan, and when I'm not screaming words out of my mouth all day at people who can barely read, I'm writing a book made of words that makes you have pictures in your brain. It takes approximately 1,000 of them to make one brain picture. Give or take.
Speaker 2:And I'm Leah and, thanks to what just happened in issue five of Avalon, I really want to hug my mom and dad right now, and I don't say that very often. Today we are talking about the Avalon comic series and we are extremely honored to have back with us Brandon Starocki, writer and creator of Avalon, after almost exactly one year to the day that we met you for episode 17 of Zongyaba Club, where you first introduced Avalon to our audience and to us. Welcome back to the show, brandon, so happy to have you here.
Speaker 3:I'm happy to be here and thanks for having me back. Thanks to you, thank you for me not ruining the opportunity to come back either.
Speaker 2:No, I actually re-listened to our episode from last year and sort of fell in love with the conversation all over again. It was really nice preparation for this chat. So for those who have not had the honor of reading Avalon yet, or maybe haven't listened to that episode 17,. Can you just reintroduce yourself for the people?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm Brandon Strocki, as you said, and you actually said the last name right without asking too A lot of people can't do that, so I am the creator and writer of Avalon Comic.
Speaker 3:Avalon is basically just a you follow a dysfunctional family like we all kind of know and have and through a zombie apocalypse, and they kind of deal with their past issues while they're trying to fight off zombies. It's a fun story that focuses well, fun and sad story that focuses on a lot of mental health and physical health issues. We try to make the world feel as incredibly real and as real as it ever is going to get in a fictional world.
Speaker 1:Isn't that funny how it works when it's a zombie apocalypse story and it's like it's so fun and exciting and funny and also everybody that I love dies.
Speaker 2:Also, there's somebody's eye popping out hanging on the edge of a table.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say this Fun time though.
Speaker 3:Super fun. A lot of fun stuff happens in it and again, like you said, a lot of sad and a lot of torture to the brain, to the mental health. It's a good time, it's a good roller coaster ride.
Speaker 2:It passes the number one test for us, which is if there were no zombies, there would be a great story. The zombies make the story better, but if there were no zombies in the in the avalon, world.
Speaker 1:I would still want to read the series. That's kind of cool. Um, before we dive into things, we have some rapid fire questions for you, brand new ones. Since you've already answered some rapid fire questions, we had to come up with new things that we can't just recycle over and over again. First question when were you on the night of Zombieween 2023? Probably in Erie, Pennsylvania, In my house probably that checks out what are you most proud of in your A avalon comic series.
Speaker 3:now that you're almost six episodes in um, just being six episodes or six issues in and having the incredible team and that helps me kind of make this comic come to life, it's a it's. It was an incredible journey over the last few years. I'm just excited to be in this process of releasing issue six here, working on the second season with new friends, new writers and really making sure that this story gets all the articulation it needs to get to make these characters in this story you know, new, unique and have its own kind of own fan base and own kind of like thing.
Speaker 3:When somebody reads it it has its own kind of title. It doesn't have any feel like it feels like anything else, but just being where I'm at now and continuing continuously doing it and like it has its own kind of title. It doesn't have any feel like it feels like anything else, but just being where I'm at now and continuing continuously doing it and keeping it going what's the?
Speaker 1:the worst zombie movie you've ever seen? Oh wow, it's kind of a big there's a lot to choose from.
Speaker 3:But it's funny because I don't know the mood, I don't know the titles of them I just, I, I just try to erase them when, I see the movie man.
Speaker 3:I wish I had a name. It definitely was something on Netflix. I just cannot think of what the name of the movie was. It was just horrible. One that I can remember of, and there's ones worse than this, so I hope nobody gets mad or triggered by this is Black Summer. I did not care for that show. How dare you? I I know, I know, but so that's the one I could think of. There's worse ones than it, uh, but that's the first one that comes to mind.
Speaker 1:That I can actually title and I didn't care for that one it's actually surprising because, uh, you know, I I mean that, like you said, there are, there are really bad movies out.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, for sure they're horrible, but way more horrible than black summers. I just that's the first one, that kind of the only one I could titleize, but I didn't care for that.
Speaker 1:I I think I think that's one of those things that are so polarizing because of, like, the way that they made it, like it's very like silent, not a lot of dialogue, they're not explaining a whole lot.
Speaker 3:That wasn't what got me. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I don't want to go down like a thing if you guys don't want to, but that wasn't what got me. Sorry, I don't want to go down like a thing if you guys don't want to, but that wasn't what got me with it.
Speaker 3:It was just one of those, it just was. I liked what they were trying to do. I just don't think they executed it well. It just didn't stick with me. I don't think they did it well.
Speaker 2:For what it's worth. Brandon, I have a special place in my heart for it. But I agree with especially was just like could have been really amazing and wasn't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a lot of it for me was the character development with them too. There's only one character I really cared about. It was the, the one guy with the lady in the van. I can't even remember his name at this point. He was the only one I actually cared about because he had character development like he actually developed as the movie went on. Every other character was just like.
Speaker 1:I don't know I'm here right now. I exist, yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3:I have words, I have screen time, but I don't you know, I'm not giving you anything to work with. That's just the way I feel.
Speaker 1:Good, yeah uh, what is the high point of your year since we last talked?
Speaker 3:uh, just again adding uh, so we added another writer for season two. Uh, bill Dalton is his name as my buddy. I've known him for a couple years now. He's always kind of been into the whole, uh, hollywood thing creating and all that stuff as well. We we've talked about things in the past just in general, just kind of with each other, and uh, we have a lot of similar kind of ideas and things we like. But when he kind of came on for season two, that's been probably the high point, other than kind of ideas and things we like. But when he kind of came on for season two, that's been probably the high point, other than kind of still being here. Like I mentioned earlier in the show is just, you know, having that, having more team members and making sure Avalon lives up to its potential.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, yeah, Um, yeah, I think. I think that's something that we also found to be really interesting was just meeting people who were doing doing things that we care about. Yeah, no a hundred percent. It is kind of this weird serendipitous moment when you're like I'm doing this thing that I'm really passionate about, and then somebody comes along and they're like I'm also doing that Such as you know this right here.
Speaker 3:Right, right, a hundred percent, and and and. Meeting people you know this right here, right right, a hundred percent. And meeting people you know other than my buddy here, but meeting people you never thought in a million years you'd meet. And you meet them and you get to know them and then you actually really enjoy them. And a lot of them are across the country and you're like, wow, I never would have met you in my life if I wasn't doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have an ultimate zombie commune list of like members, but everybody is not here. It's a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like I, I kind of feel how like people must feel when, like, if they're like an actor or a movie director and they go to LA and everybody that they want to work with is like in their neighborhood or just across town, whereas, like you know, in the internet age, trying to do things, you end up making like really, uh, long lasting friendships with people that you could never drive to, you could never reach their house in, like a week yeah, no, no, and and that's the unfortunate thing, though, too like you were saying, leah too.
Speaker 3:It's just like you have all these people part of your zombie. You know crew here, and you've got to travel hours and miles to go get to them, even if something were to break off. So that's the only thing that sucks about it, but yeah it does.
Speaker 1:I have a master plan, but that's another episode um, when you're working on avalon, is there like a playlist that's going through your head or like a favorite song that like really drives you through it?
Speaker 3:um, I do have a playlist, uh, two different playlists, actually three different. I have a camping playlist that's more generated towards camping, you know, and you know, but that's some of the songs and they're kind of like get me going, uh, but there's a lot of songs that I have like a writing playlist that I kind of listen to as well and I watch, like you know, when people like, this is the first thing that's coming to mind. You know, like when people make youtube videos of like, like the walking dead for uh per se and it's like about rick's journey and it's like a, it's like a trailer rick's life yeah, like stuff like that, like yeah, right, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:It's the music kind of gets me going. I'll listen to music like that and uh, no, but no specific band or song or whatever. It's just something, it's just kind of. Whatever that feel is like.
Speaker 1:I can't even let me see if I can find one, but yeah, I mean, I've like now these days like you have to have a playlist for like every mood. I have a playlist just for, like, driving home from work after a really shitty day. That's about just setting everything on fire yeah, I do that.
Speaker 2:I have to listen to music leah was was singing a very imitating dan's favorite song when he comes home from work, which is literally like I'm gonna burn it down.
Speaker 1:Rah, that's the song. Yeah, that's Leah's cover.
Speaker 2:It's spot on, it sounds exactly like that, but yeah if you have a favorite playlist, feel free to send it to us. We'll put it in the show notes for folks. They can be inspired or anything on YouTube that you like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll do that, though I'll do this I also uh like when I'm writing, I I listen to um, uh, godspeed you, black emperor. They, uh, they made um the song east hastings. That's like in the opening scenes of 28 days later okay, okay, is that the song? Yeah like well, like there's two, like the songs of 28 Days Later, but like it's the first, it's the verse, the song, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to shamelessly self-promote our Spotify playlist, which is called Zombie Book Club Podcast Soundtrack Zombie Book Club Podcast Soundtrack. It's a lot of words, yeah, and if you ever want to add to it, brandon, you're welcome to. It's open for anybody to add to.
Speaker 3:I'm searching it, as we're looking here too.
Speaker 2:So you already did a great job of introducing Avalon for the listeners. We're five issues in now. Dan and I have read we read the first three issues twice. We just read the fourth and the fifth. Now we're at the sixth and I got to say your zombies are pretty terrifying. Could you describe your zombies Like? What kind of zombie are they?
Speaker 3:So we wanted to make it a little bit as real as it's going to get.
Speaker 3:So when Alan and I, when we were first kind of going through you know the story and how we wanted to tell it, and then finally got to our zombies, we want, we looked up a lot of different things that are you know, that are real, but obviously you have to throw some fiction at it and some fake stuff out of it.
Speaker 3:But a lot of these things, especially like the Last of Us you know that's another one that is like it could very well happen.
Speaker 3:So something along the lines of that is just really researching viruses, parasites, different kinds of bacterias and how things kind of can evolve and how things can kind of intertwine, and we've done a lot of research in that uh and I'll leave that a little gray area because that's part of the avalon story in the future, uh, so you will learn more as the characters learn that we're kind of reading through with, uh, but so the reason they're different, though, too, is that you know, obviously, physically, right out of the gate, you could tell like the big scratches around their eyes a lot of them kind of start digging at their face, and it's a little intense and we actually, in one of the issues that you guys just read, a character that we know and love, at that point, at this point it ends up going through a transformation and you kind of see a little bit of that transformation over the issues and you could see that build up and how it's not just a simple bite and you know they turn over a little bit.
Speaker 3:That you know they actually have. You know, inner body things happen, things are going on in the head, things are going on with their nervous system and all that stuff too. So there's a lot of things that are different. But the problem is I have to keep it a little gray area too, because it's part of the storyline.
Speaker 3:So that'll be intertwined with the storyline later to come, when the characters start digging deeper into this. Um. But you know the. The obvious thing is the physical differences, you know, and how you will see in season two, coming up as we're writing it, more of the differences, the physicality of them and what they're willing to do, or what they're capable of doing and what they're not and what's. You know what happens to them in certain situations or certain elements or certain kind of uh points in the day. Things affect them differently. So that's going to be a big kind of arc for season two, coming on with the, with the, with our zombies as well, um.
Speaker 1:So that's so I can't really give you too much but I, I hope that's enough.
Speaker 2:I accept this. Is it safe to say they're not slow zombies? I don't get the slow by any means.
Speaker 1:I mean at this point of of the story, like I I like to uh separate zombie stories into like different romero movies. So like this is still like night of the living dead, it's still literally the first night and I hadn't even thought about that because, like you know, these comics come out over multiple months, slash years, and it's like no, we're still day one yeah, which is the unfortunate?
Speaker 3:it's the great unfortunate thing, I guess, but because I wish I can get this out in a faster fashion for people to kind of experience the chaos and the speed of all this one night. But uh, that was one of the big things too when alan and I were first kind of getting together talking about this, is that was the most important part to us is we and we were going to actually skip over there, like fast forward over this part, which I'm glad we did it, because one of our favorite parts of zombie movies and stories is the. The outbreak is the beginning, cause that's the most chaotic, that's the most things where people just get kind of slapped in the face and they're like, oh, wow, this is a whole new way of life happening at the snap of a finger. So we wanted to make, we wanted to draw that snap of a finger a little bit over issues to come in um and and again.
Speaker 3:That's the most fun, that's the most intense, that's the most chaotic, and we wanted to really savor all that and spread that out as as much as we could without being so boring. You know, and I feel like great with this issue six here that's coming out as we're just coming to that. Obviously it's a perfect kind of finale for this first season where we had this whole first night. We had this whole first chaotic craziness going on for five issues and now we're kind of taking that dip and to ending that and starting something new for the season to come and I think we got a perfect issue six coming out here.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to hear that. I will say I think it's got a great pace in the first five and as somebody I don't know if you remember that I told you that this was the first comic series I've ever read a year ago, brandon. I've read a few more now, uh, thanks to you and laurie, but I will say, like, coming back to your series to reread it, like there's, I've kind of come to learn the charm of the comic because you can spend so much time looking at it and you see new things every time. So it can be short, but there's a lot in it.
Speaker 3:Like dan said, the, the that saying of a thousand words in a picture, a hundred percent, and and I mean I'm glad that this was the first comic you read and I'm glad I didn't ruin the experience for you so far um, but so it. Like you said, though, too, it definitely helps when you have somebody like Demetrius as well, when Demetrius, being a part of Avalon, really takes Avalon to that next level. What he's able to do with his panel layouts, what he's able to do with just his angles in general and his character designs and the intenseness of the infected, it just adds it to another level. For me personally, being a comic, you know being in comics more now than ever, because I'm making one.
Speaker 1:I definitely look at comics in that way.
Speaker 3:Like I cause, I'm so used to Demetrius's style and what he brings, and so I almost hold all the other comics up to a different kind of tier, making sure it's it's appeasing me in the art fashion before I even give the story a try, unfortunately. But Demetrius spoils me.
Speaker 2:I will say, if you can call bloody gore things beautiful. Demetrius's art is very beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, he does a phenomenal job. We're very glad to have had him.
Speaker 1:You know, when I was reading it, like going back to like the types of zombies. If I had to describe it based on the artwork, I'd say like foamy zombies, bubbly zombies like because they just always have like bubbly, foamy blood coming out of their eyes and mouth yeah, just just gross, foul, sick looking.
Speaker 3:You know it's just uh. Again he's done an awesome job and, and you know, having all that in my brain kind of putting that on paper too, it's just I'm glad Again, I'm glad. I can't thank him enough for being a part of this team and kind of doing this with Avalon too, because all the stuff in my head is actually even better on paper now. So it's just seeing these kind of zombies, this new kind of zombie, being a fan of the genre itself, and having these zombies be new and different genre itself, and having these zombies be new and different, my eyes uh kind of seeing like that it's it's fun.
Speaker 1:It's it's fun and what we could do with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that must be, that must be like a like, because I mean we're reading it, so it's like the first time we're seeing it, but like, as you're writing it, you have something in your mind and like seeing it come to life and in art uh must also be pretty thrilling yeah, it's almost like uh twice, you know, being new, twice for the city, you know, it's just like crazy because, like you said, like you're writing it from your brain on the paper and then you think you know it and as soon as demetrius takes it and does something like wow, I didn't even think of it like that, you know. So, especially since we, you know, we've known each other for years now uh, you could definitely tell the progression of uh, just the artwork and just the layouts in general, that we've created that kind of bond and relationship and trust with each other. Um, over time, because you could, you could just see it in the issues to come, because he there's a lot more things that he has an idea. He just reads the script. He comes out with an idea and 99 of the time it's we're rolling with it.
Speaker 3:It's sometimes it's not even part of the script. He's just like let me add this panel, let me have this kind of thing, and we add it and uh, it, it's awesome what he comes up with and a lot of those things that I just mentioned too. Um will be in the volume. When we do our trade paperback volume, we're going to be kind of going over the script. We'll have like a little segment in the back of the book going over the original script and what demetrius saw and what demetrius kind of put out there too, and and that's going to be kind of like a fun thing and just kind of showing the creator kind of room getting these comics out there and what goes behind, goes on behind scenes to get avalon where it is now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I imagine also that, like as a like I, I, I read. I read a lot of um, you know, like short stories from from people that are you know they're just having fun writing short stories and a lot of times like they'll have something in their head. As the reader, like you're, you don't see the same thing that they're seeing or you get confused about things. I imagine that, like having to translate that to an artist and then seeing images come back of how they interpreted your writing, like kind of makes you a better writer.
Speaker 3:It makes you think about the things that maybe you didn't describe very well yeah, 100, and and since, since season one was, basically, most of it was written before we got even to like issue two, um, he, so when I I apply all that that I've seen over the last five, six issues at this point into season two, because, because I have we're just kind of going through dialogue and panel layouts now, like we have the story ready for two. We just have to kind of do the fine tuning to it. But having that, like you just mentioned, over the years and seeing what the matrix is capable of, is very cool to me. Now that I know what all these weird things he could do, like you know, my brain could even go more wild with kind of doing certain things and taking different things that I like and making sure it's in there, and then even then I feel like he's going to come up with cooler things. So it's just like it's that push and pull kind of deal.
Speaker 3:And I hope it's forever to come and that he stays. You know a part of Avalon forever, you know. But you know not everything is.
Speaker 1:I understand that, but for as long as it is, I'm appreciating it each time that kind of comes along.
Speaker 3:And I'm excited for season two even because of the way that the writing kind of changed and the layouts kind of changed and kind of seeing what he can kind of come up with.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I have a question that might end up being a spoiler question and you can say I'm not answering that. Is there a specific scene in the first five issues that you know? You saw what he did and it was completely different than what you imagined, but better like. Is there one that you could share about that you were really blown away by, versus your own initial thinking yeah, um so like.
Speaker 3:So a little bit of a spoiler warning, so whatever you know um so the miller the miller scene and, uh, in the last couple issues that you've seen, when he was kind of going through that transition or whatever, that big panel splash page where you kind of see like the blood kind of going around and like that intenseness of how he kind of brought it close up to the face and it was like like the way he did it, like he made the head the center focus of the panel and the way it like kind of played out and all that stuff too, that was one that always comes to mind immediately. Uh, that one and the spider web, the blood web page with with uh, I don't want to say too much about this one but with the car accident um and the result of that too.
Speaker 3:That one was him as well, like he came up with that.
Speaker 3:And there's, there's so many pages and panels now in the later issues, especially that he just comes up with these wild ideas and again, like 99 percent of the time, we're rolling with them um and and even it's funny because I find myself, even when I'm like I don't know, I don't see what you mean, yet he'll kind of like in the way he pitches it and he's like he draws it in pencil form and then it starts coming together, then I'm like, okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. Now, like, sometimes it's like it's hard for me to like understand, especially coming from his brain, because it's like he's more of the artistic. You know, he sees it all like in his head. I don't even know he doesn't speak for himself, but like, as I see it, I'm like, oh, that starts to make way more sense now and you know, I start to. You know, actually it's funny.
Speaker 3:Like he sells me on it, like it feels like it's his book yeah yeah do your thing yeah, but uh, no, yeah, he just, he gets better and better as time goes on.
Speaker 1:Honestly, well, you know, he's gotta, he's gotta turn a thousand words into a picture and then to describe it back to you. He's gonna take a picture and turn it into a thousand words, exactly, I think that's exactly it, you know.
Speaker 3:That's why that's. That's one of the better quotes I've ever heard him probably ever.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, it's seriously, I just made it good, good it really is.
Speaker 3:It really is it. It's crazy, especially when you're doing this creative stuff too. It's like it's hard to articulate things, especially. You know, I don't know, I can't. I can only speak. You know what I think about the artist, but having, like you said, you need a thousand words to explain one page, and then as soon as he shows me the page, then it starts to make sense.
Speaker 1:It's just a lot of chaos, a lot of words for a panel, yeah, yeah, I definitely got like 10 000 words per page.
Speaker 2:It's amazing it's just too many something dan pointed up, uh to me and we were really looking at it, is the cartoon like wind up, sort of car vibe versus the very serious graphic imagery and like sharp lines of the people and it's just a fun contrast. I hadn't noticed it before but I think because, dan, you're a car guy, you're like, yeah, like I'm always looking at like car details, like what, what model is this?
Speaker 1:is this period correct? And and they're just kind of like round and fun and like yeah. But you know, like it's it, it doesn't need that hyper realism, because it fits and it and it tells the story perfectly. It's, it's it. It doesn't need that hyper realism because it fits and it and it tells the story perfectly it's.
Speaker 3:It's funny Cause it's like you know, when you look at the first issue, obviously you could tell the jump from one to two, even, and then and then so on. You know, uh, but one to two is the biggest jump and I remember I think I mentioned this in the last interview too is like it scared me when he brought, brought it up to me that he changed his style and I'm a big consistent guy and that kind of worried me and then he kind of showed me what he was talking about. I loved it. You know, I fell in love with that style.
Speaker 3:But like, when you go back to issue one, like the car looks a little bit more, I guess, realistic-ish, you know, and the fact that he started to get his style and again, like you said, I think it all just kind of flows. It works well. It doesn't need to have that kind of like real thing. A lot of the story is very real to me. You know the characters, look, you know, real with some not cartoon, but like some comic with a comic. Look, you know it has that just like that extra comic look and it just I just think it just fits His style, is just one thing.
Speaker 1:It just fits for avalon and what we're kind of going with.
Speaker 1:I mean it almost kind of show uh, shows motion better because, like agreed, you know coming around a corner, is it? Like it's, it almost has the appearance of like if you're watching like a like an old vhs movie and you pause in between frames and it's like part partly on one side of the frame and the rest of it's on the other, like and you can see that motion and that's kind of. That's kind of what it reminds me of a little bit yeah, and, like you said, I think it works.
Speaker 3:I think it's fun too. It adds like a different. I mean it's, there's not much that I don't think, I just think it works. I know I never caught my eye, maybe just because you're the car guy though too, so I never was like hang on a second, but I think it works. I didn't see anything.
Speaker 1:I mean, for me it's for me, I, I have a problem, you know we're. I can't just enjoy a show, a show where they're like it's made in 2020 and they're like this is back in the year 2000.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I'm like that's not a 2000 era cop car meanwhile, you refer directly to an escalator and I'm like I don't know what this looks like, but I believe you that it's an? Escalator. I'll also say I don't think I want to get too much into this, just for the listeners if you've not read the comic series yet, or if you have, go back and look for it, and there's some easter eggs in there too, and there's a lot of symbolistic, symbolistic foreshadowing that the crow like I was like. Why are there these crows?
Speaker 1:and then? Well, I mean, there was a crow on the cover of that episode.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and then I honestly it sounds ridiculous. I kind of forgot that crows symbolized. Can I say these things? I don't guess yeah, I mean it is things die.
Speaker 1:We also watch videos where people like befriend crows by feeding them things and then the crows bring them, like watches and coins, that's my association with crows.
Speaker 2:But then it all made sense and it was like really a powerful moment. Um, also the fact it hit me the second time around with the castle family I think thematically might connect to the name avalon. Can you confirm or deny? Yeah, I'm just going to keep nodding. There's a lot of again.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you pick up on that. That's the most exciting thing is that you know it's great if somebody likes Avalon, it's great if somebody likes the art and buys it or whatever. But those little symbolism things, those little Easter eggs too, those are even better to me when people notice those things, because there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it and from my end you know that I wanted in there and actually you know, with the crow thing that you're talking about, that was all demetrius. Uh, that wasn't even in the script. It was. There was no crows in the script. There was no idea of it. It was just what it was.
Speaker 3:And when he kind of read it which which again, which I'm very grateful to have him, because when we first started I told him ahead of time I said I want you to read it as like a, I guess, a fan first, just like kind of a reader, and then read it as a job.
Speaker 3:Don't read it as a job first, because then you're going to like these. So I think with that little thing alone he gets those. You know, he gets those feelings. I was like, okay, he read this whole kind of issue or even that scene per se and he thought crows like that, even that scene per se, and he thought crows like that, like you said, the symbol, the symbolism with the crows and what happens during, you know, in that scene, I guess in those couple pages there, you know, it really articulates that scene even more so, like it just really brings you into that moment, um, and that was all him too, and to have him be able to do a lot of those things as well and hide our you know little easter egg things there too, it's fun and I'm glad.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you guys saw my favorite easter egg was um the the guy in traffic reading path of the pale rider.
Speaker 3:I thought it was a fun little nod yeah, it was path of the pale rider and ray's uh comic as well. They, uh, I know both of them, um, and I remember I asked him because we were talking about doing that all of us, all the creators and uh ourselves and um, actually it's funny because again, demetrius's idea or he's like what do you think if we did this? And I was like, yeah, I mean I'll, I'll ask them see what they think and see what they want to do, because we've all been kind of talking about doing things and kind of spreading words out there for each other as well, because we're all part of the same kind of community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, and when he kind of he we're just kind of me and demetrius are kind of going back and forth and he kind of just threw it out there, I was like, yeah, it's not a bad idea, let me go ask them see what they think. And they both obviously were down for it and they threw it in there and I thought it was, it was a nice, and he kind of wrote or drew that panel too. It just it all worked on the page. It didn't feel forced or anything crazy.
Speaker 1:I I like that too yeah, I mean, uh, stuff like that, like this, these types of communities that we're building. I think they're super important because, um, in in the genre of the zombie apocalypse, it's uh, on the indie side of things, it's a very small like community creator community and like it's a laser focus that I don't think so like a lot of things actually tap into effectively. So like having those close-knit bonds like nobody's nobody's uh, nobody's hurting anybody by taking up the space. In fact, when we come together, that's when it makes it better and helps people, helps all of us grow together I I think, well, there's two things I want to mention about that too.
Speaker 3:One of them I want to kind of throw this out there first is uh, with path of the pale rider being in, you know, kind of that panel is that shows the audience that zombies do exist in avalon. So if anybody had questions about that in the future, it's not like the Walking Dead where they're like oh, do zombies, are zombies a real thing or whatever. So that kind of opens that door for that, that zombies do exist in the world of Avalon. And the second thing too is, like you said, I think it sucks because, like we talked about earlier in the show is there are a lot of bad zombie things out there and I think that taints the word zombie, you know, and all that stuff too. So when people hear zombies, they're like, okay, I don't want to even think about it.
Speaker 3:But for people like us, there's a lot more that go into the genre than just the zombies. Like you know, speaking for myself and for avalon is the. The main story is there's the castle family, you know what I mean. Like that's the story. Zombies are almost, are almost secondary in Avalon right now, especially in season one, but there's so much more to zombie stories especially when they're done right than simply just cutting limbs off and shooting zombies and blood and gore. There's so much more to it to us, and especially with the indie community. I think they love it a lot and that's what they really articulate as well when they're these comics. So I think you're getting a good zombie story if you're buying an independent.
Speaker 2:I agree, I gotta say, like the family theme. The main central family obviously is the Castle family, but then there's at least two other families we've been introduced to so far and I think that's what, for me, like made it so emotionally real. And all of the characters are very physically vulnerable. Even the strongest ones can become a zombie or die, and that really stood out to me. But I'm curious if you could just like give the backstory of the castle family and give people a taste of like who these people are when they start reading this series yeah, uh, so there's, basically there's three brothers, you know, uh, and it it mirrors my life.
Speaker 3:I have two other brothers as well, so I want to try to keep this story as close to home as possible and adding the fiction parts to it as well. But so, three brothers, there's a dad and mom. You know they have a very dysfunctional past. They're the oldest brother has been separated, you know, doesn't live with them. The main family, he lives in the city of Erie and they live in northeast, which is about a 40, 30, 40 minute drive from erie. Uh, but you know, so he hasn't been around much.
Speaker 3:A lot of stuff has been going on with the castle family, like physical problems that you that you start to learn reading the issues as well, um, and mental issues as well.
Speaker 3:You know, with the youngest son as well, he's dealing with anxieties and depressions and, and again, so is the oldest brother, andy, you know he's dealing with his own form of it, just in a different manner.
Speaker 3:So it's just, there's a, there's a lot of depth and there's a lot of layers to each one of these characters that just from the castle family alone, and as they get closer, as the zombies are bringing them closer and closer together.
Speaker 3:Uh, you start to see, especially coming up in this issue and season two, you start to see those little like daggers that some of the family members don't like the other one and vice versa, the drama that comes with it as well as so now all that drama from the past is building up on top of the intense drama outside the door, with the zombies too. So it's just like there's a lot again. There's a lot going on, there's a lot of depth, there's a lot of dysfunctionality in that family that we're going to be kind of articulating more so as the the walls kind of shrink in on the family a little bit more as as time goes on that's a helpful backstory, because what I can say in the first five issues anyways, is that, like you, even that tension exists you can feel already, but you can also feel how much they love each other and that is extremely real.
Speaker 2:As a member of a dysfunctional family, I love all of my family members, right Like I have tender feelings for them, and there's lots of times where I want to be close, other times where I don't because it's hard. But I think that's a really great backdrop for whatever is coming next, like when you're layering on zombie apocalypse plus those family dynamics showing up. I can feel that in my body, like it reminds me of specific things that I've been through. So you do an excellent job of making that very real.
Speaker 3:Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. You're good. I was gonna say do you have a favorite?
Speaker 3:character so.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're all sort of my favorite, you know.
Speaker 3:But if I had to pick the one. Um, you know, miller was very fun. He was a very fun character right. He was very fun to see on page and and articulated, you know, with the, with the little quirky kind of joke things, just little puns that he kind of threw out there here and there when the moment seemed a little, you know, a little more intense and then he kind of just brought it down with those little, just little stupid little comments. He was fun to write. So I'd probably say him you know, andy's actually another fun one to write in the opposite spectrum because he's very complex, very complex. A lot of it is not shown at face value.
Speaker 3:A lot of it is shown internally or written internally with him and it's going to be starting to come out more and more as time goes on. It's very, very again. The only word I can think of right now for Andy is complex. It's very. He's very fun writing in that way, cause there's so much depth to Andy and so much history on why he's been away. You know what's. What is he dealing with currently? Why does he look like the, I guess like the leader of this group per se? But there's no but he's, but he's not. You know what I mean? He did just so much behind him pulling him back down, so so he's. So between Miller being fun to write because he's you know, he takes the edge off of the seriousness and Andy being fun to write because of how complex his character is, I would say it's probably those two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can identify with Andy a little bit. I've always been the one that was far away, you know. Yeah. The oldest, the first one to leave, the first one to join the army and be like all right. Well, I guess I'll see you guys next year, 10 years from now.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, you're just away. You kind of miss. You miss all the stuff that's going on at home and maybe, if it gets dysfunctional enough, you, you know they'll resent you, like the castle family.
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah, well, you know, one one thing is like when, when people are are like, oh, I love my family so much I'll do anything for him, I'm like, oh, I don't know if I'd do that yeah, yeah in the same, in the same scenario. If I was Andy, I'd probably just send him a text like GL.
Speaker 3:And lowercase too Lowercase GL yeah.
Speaker 1:Good luck. Hope dad's fine.
Speaker 3:No, but that's you know. Again, that goes to his complex character as well, as you know, he does feel that need to be there. He does feel that need to protect his, that whole family. He feels that burden for being away. And but again, like what you guys will start to learn as the readers of Avalon, like, as you know, as the story kind of unfolds more, you'll start to realize what was keeping Andy away and that's a whole nother thing. That comes later on as well as it wasn't his own. Just, I don't want to be around this family anymore. There was something I don't know, yeah, probably physically holding him back. There was something holding him back that he could not do it and that that's kind of like a spoiler free kind of thing for the future of what's going to be coming out here as well with andy's why was he away, you know?
Speaker 1:uh, so that'll be answered um, my growing favorite character right now, uh, is cliff. I love cliff too. Yeah, yeah, cliff. What I love is that the, the visual storytelling, reveals some background on cliff that like he doesn't just come out and say it, it just kind of like shows up in a panel and if you don't see that panel, you don't know yeah, yeah, no, and again, like cliff, I I really enjoy cliff too, you know he's he's starting to kind of take that fun character for me.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say too much, but you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:You guys know what happens but he started to take that. You know, have me at that way too. He's been a fun character to kind of write as well and kind of be in there because he's like he's there, you know he's that, he's there, you know he's that. He's that guy who's you know older guy, who's just been through life. You know he's been there, done that. You know he was in the military too. We kind of I hope you saw that as well with the usmc book there too.
Speaker 1:That's. That's what I was talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yep yep, so he. So he's been there. He's, uh, he's just been there, done that with life. You know they have a complex backstory to him and elise too. That that again, as time kind of slows up a little bit there with not getting attacked by zombies, you'll start to see these characters backstories a little bit more. Um and and again, it's it's, it's, it's a complex story for them and it's actually it's going to be told in a way, without giving much away it's, it's. It's going to be interesting. I feel like I can't wait to kind of talk about it when people actually see it, because it's like knowing what happened to them in their past and where they're at today, how you can see they're, kind of, you know, religious folks, you know. They, kind of, you know, do their thing. They're older people, they look at the good of everything. So when you look at their backstory you're going to be like, really, that's where you're there.
Speaker 3:You're good, you have a good good outlook on things, so it's just it's gonna be fun yeah yeah, you have to kind of go through it like that.
Speaker 1:So it's gonna be fun to see how people kind of see that and kind of read it and take it and all that what I, what I like about them is, uh, like I see this in myself, especially now that I'm I'm getting, I'm getting old now um is that, like you know, this, this backstory gives them like, like some credibility when it comes to his capability in this type of scenario. Uh, but he also kind of has this attitude of like like I can keep up, I can keep up with the young guys, I, yeah, I can go out there and and uh and do just as good as any of them, but like it's, it's, it's. It shows that like he's like things happen and like he doesn't. He might not be as spry as he used to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean like one of those things probably talk when he kicks the door shut and they kind of hurts his leg a little bit too, and it's just like it's funny Cause it's just like age.
Speaker 3:Obviously, like you said, he has that kind of that, you know just that attitude where he feels he can kind of keep up. He feel, you know, he has that good way of thinking that everything's going to be okay, even when it's not, uh, but again he's getting beat up with you know age and we all at some point can kind of figure that. I hurt my knee two weeks ago and it still hurts. Oh no, you know, just just just dancing at a wedding and for two weeks my knee hurts and I'm, you know, I'm not even 30 yet, so I can't even imagine how uh cliff feels.
Speaker 3:So yeah, at 40, I can tell you, it gets worse I hurt my knee in my sleep last night, so yeah, you moved, you turned, and you're like, oh, it's true, if I get up a certain way my hip hurts now and like I can't walk for a couple seconds.
Speaker 2:It's great it's from some old injury, but at least you had injured dancing at a wedding versus, like I don't know, defending your family from the apocalypse you know right, right, yeah, at least it wasn't so intense or, you know, life-threatening.
Speaker 2:But yeah, what's it like to write um again, it's so hard to not talk about the details. I feel like we need like a special episode there for just people who have watched things or not watch things, read things. Yeah, what's it like to write some of the more heart-wrenching scenes that are about family members dealing with things with each other, like where they're clearly struggling. If, like, it feels very emotional when I'm reading it. So what's it like for you when you're writing it?
Speaker 3:um, so it just, it's just the love and uh, just, you know, just the love that you that you have for family and friends in general. You know, we all have those people. Yeah, if it's not family, it's friends, we have somebody we love and have feel that with in general and, um, we kind of care for them, we feel for them, no matter what kind of the scenario might be. You know, so it's so, for me obviously it would be. It would be the family in that setting, because it's very close to my life with, without the extremeness of it all you know, I mean like.
Speaker 3:So the only thing that's really kind of close to it is, you know, mom, dad and two brothers. I have three, two brothers, so it's three of us but it's really it's really articulating that love that I have for my family.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? Because it's not really articulate. It's not like we go out there every single day and I'm texting my family I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. It's that love, that inner love that we all feel for those family and friends, and it kind of portrays in that like okay, how do I see myself if this were to happen in our lives? How would that? How would that kind of, how do I think personally, you know, speaking for my other brothers and all that stuff too in a different in an alternate reality because you know, my other brother has kids too, you know.
Speaker 3:But it's just articulating that love that you have for loved ones, that you know, and really making sure that you're showing and articulating it enough and feeling for them. Because we all watch movies, we can feel for characters we don't even know after a given time period. And really the music that we talked about as well, setting the mood, setting the intense factor or the sad factor and all that stuff too, is really making sure that you're there mentally with the music or if it's music, if it's a crackling of a fire outside, just standing outside by yourself or something, but just somehow get in the mood before you even write it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can feel it and I appreciate that emotional vulnerability because, unlike your assessment of Black Summer, there really is character development and growth and you feel the people. There's definitely dialogue also Great dialogue. I've got a. I've got a fun question for you how do you decide who dies, who becomes a zombie and who gets to live, and what is it like to be God?
Speaker 3:So so I, I, for a long time too, I was kind of, I was kind of showcasing that we don't really it's not really, I guess, planned like who's dying next season or whatever. It is Not so much like that, it's almost like where the story has taken us. You know it's like, so it's not so much like me playing God. It's actually the story. You know, the world. You know because it's like somebody can't help if they get blasted by a car tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean they can't help if they get blasted by a car tomorrow. You know I mean, they're not.
Speaker 3:It's not like they had it in their brain like, okay, I'm dying, tomorrow I'm gonna go get blasted by a car, you know because I feel like it yeah, but it just it's really just allowing the world take its toll.
Speaker 3:You know, kind of do its thing. So we're writing the main course, I guess, of the world and the story. At what point is somebody going to kind of do this, you know, and then like, even with one of the characters early on, you know, uh, the other, I don't want to say to miller, you know, with miller's fate, uh, I'll just go out and say it. If you haven't read it by now, it's been years um with with miller's fate too, it's like you know, that was even one where I was.
Speaker 3:Like you know, it felt it it was right it had to happen, uh, especially with, with the push for the story, the difference of the story, because, you know, taking away that, that uh very cliche buddy cop kind of story, it's taking that away immediately. It's kind of showing you right out of the gate. That's not what this is, yeah, um, and it had to happen. And especially with the development of andy, where he's going to be going mentally, it needed to happen and I was contemplating doing it or not for a long time. When we're first writing it.
Speaker 3:But it's just again, it's elaborating the idea where the world and the story dictates what happens to these characters. Not so much me, I mean it kind of sounds psychotic.
Speaker 1:but it's not me, that's doing it.
Speaker 3:It's just how the story needs to kind of play out.
Speaker 2:I think there's some weird channeling that story, not to make you sound like you're all a bunch of um, supernatural beings, writers, but I do think there's like a strange channeling that storytellers do. I don't know how to explain it because I'm not one, but it feels very real. I was gonna say, and I'll just take the opportunity to say it now I think that your comic series could actually be like a literal companion. If you were going through therapy for your or like family therapy, people could each like point to a character and be like this is me and I relate to them and I'm working through these things. It's actually really, really great on a lot of levels.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm glad you said it that way as well, because that's kind of the writing room mentality as well as make you know Again, I don't want to pick a certain main protagonist. I want the whole family to kind of feel like they're the protagonist themselves, the whole family, and have each character have that all main character depth. You know what I mean. Like I don't want any character to feel superior to another one. I want anybody to kind of pick up, uh, this book and relate to any given character or not, somebody that the writer or the writing room is kind of making you like.
Speaker 3:Like I don't want to write it in the sense where it's like you know, andy's the guy I want everybody to read and go through the world through randy's eye. That's not what we want to do. We want the whole family to be the eyes and you pick who you relate to the most and see and again it allows, especially with the mental health factor and the physical health factor that people deal with. You know people always. You know today's day and age everybody's dealing with something or know somebody that is so you could relate to that character that's dealing with something. Um, yeah, I was, I was going to spoil something, but something that you know, later on as well uh, from another character.
Speaker 3:You know, there's a physical issue that's going on and it allows those people who deal with this physical issue to kind of think for themselves how would I, you know, how would I do this? How would this happen with me? What would happen to me in this case? You know of a zombie apocalypse, so you'll find that out in season two, and so on.
Speaker 2:So another thing I was realizing when I re-listened to the episode from last year again like two days off from the time this is going to come out is that I believe that your series is the first, or one of the first, that has characters with disabilities in it, and that was something that we actually only started consciously talking about representation for, I don't know, maybe like the beginning of the year 2024.
Speaker 2:I think, so, but that's like I think you've already talked a lot about it.
Speaker 2:But I want to point it out that that choice that you made to make your characters vulnerable and it's not just the zombies that can kill them. It's not just the zombies that can kill them, it's not just the zombies that are the issue. I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about the specific health issues that are present, but there are people with real everyday challenges aren't getting around and there are families around them trying to figure out how to support each other with those challenges, which, again, I think you you do a good job of not having the chosen one trope, but you also have a good job of showing how important community is and family is for survival, which is a real in our world too. So I just wanted to say like, thank you for that. I I don't think I even fully. I knew it was good and interesting, but I hadn't processed, uh, that, because so often you don't see those kinds of issues or disabilities in zombie fiction, where it's always like brad pitt being a hero and nobody ever gets.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, and that and that's just it. No, I appreciate that too. I appreciate, uh, that you enjoy that factor of it as well, because that, again, was the ultimate factor when Alan and I were first kind of getting together. Doing these things is making sure that this is what we wanted to do to make it a little bit different, not only just to be different, just to be different, you know, and a lot of people do that just in general, but just because that's the way we wanted the story feel, that way Again, bringing the realness to it and making reality in this world as much as we can get away with without being so real that people don't want to read it anymore, but giving those things where people can relate in some fashion in this world.
Speaker 3:Because, again, it ultimately starts with the question that I've asked myself for years at this point is how would I survive in a zombie apocalypse? So me personally, I always think that you know we all have our own obstacles that we deal with on a day-to-day basis. So anybody can ask themselves that question while reading this comics, because we're going to do as much as time goes on and more issues come out, more characters we meet and more you know again disabilities and mental disabilities and physical disabilities and all those kinds of things come out more Again. It brings that up for people that are actually had that stuff going on in their lives, that can actually read it and again appreciate it which I'm glad you guys do and, uh, just see it for what it could that it?
Speaker 3:actually would be in my eyes, because again people deal with it in today's real life world. Why does that just go away when the world gets even harder?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think this is something that, like, a lot of writers need to think about too, because it adds so much, so much, uh, extra dimension to your story by just including these things that just exist in life. It's not like you and you invented hard arrhythmia or anything, but like throwing it in there, um, can, can add a lot of dimension, whereas, like you know, a lot of people, they try to, they'll, they'll make a character who's, like you know, the perfect character to, to, to survive, and I I think that so many times that's like a big mistake because, um, you know, being Superman is sometimes just really boring, truly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's why Superman doesn't really sell all the time. You have to like, make other alternative kind of motives, you know, and other things wrong with them and all that stuff to sell it just. And, like you said, nobody, we've seen it so many times I don't want to say nobody wants to see it, but we've seen it so many times at least that the hero, just like you said, like you, probably the Brad Pitt, like he's just going to figure it out. Well, what happens when Brad Pitt, or somebody that's not so good looking as Brad Pitt, doesn't figure it out?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like what goes on with the whole drama in between factor, not just like the, where the writers are taking you what happens all in the meat and potato part of it, where all this crazy nonsense, the chaos of the uh, the beginning of the apocalypse, is going on, you know just, and being separate and going through those obstacles to kind of find their way back to each other as well, like by the skin of their teeth almost, you know, especially when you watch these last, or watch when you read these last issues. Um, again, but both sides of this family have lost a lot, yeah, and reaching each other and and fortunately they did, but with with a huge price to pay. So you know that is that going to be a theme going forward.
Speaker 1:You'll just have to read and find out and that's something that, like, I think that, uh, like, especially pre-2010, in the zombie apocalypse genre. Like, if you, if you, went to a Hollywood producer, they'd just be like, ah, we can't sell zombies. You know what happens after you kill all the zombies. That's boring. You know there's no end game here, but, like, the answer to that is so simple, which is you know, the story is not about ending the zombie problem, it's about living life and there's zombies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you said that amazingly honestly, like where it's not like you said, let's say, let's say Avalon, season two zombies are gone. There's still, at least in my eyes, a story to be told, at least for one more season, like these characters went through hell and back. You know, mental toll, physical toll. You know, they lost their favorite restaurant right, bob's steakhouse is gone, it's just like. So what are they gonna eat?
Speaker 1:you know you got six issues to write where they're gonna eat you gotta find a new restaurant.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that's what I'm saying, so, but like that's what I'm saying, like there is story to be told, uh, and doing it the way I feel like we're doing it, and that's why I'm glad it's working out this way so far and I am actually again still in love with this kind of story and the characters and everything going on to it, which is exciting. But again, zombies are secondary in our eyes. We just say zombies, so people know what they're kind of getting into.
Speaker 1:But most of this story is about this crazy family that is going through the end of the world yeah, I mean, I've always felt that the best zombie stories were treated that way, where the zombies are just an environmental hazard. It's not.
Speaker 2:It's not the plot, it's the environment yeah, I also appreciate that the people who have disabilities don't just immediately all die, because I think there's there's that like there's that other stereotype that people with whoever like you need medicine If you have a physical ailment, it just means you're going to die. That's it Right and that's not true.
Speaker 3:That's not entirely true at all. And again it's showcase or just disappearing. You know, I've seen that in zombie shows and movies too, or oh, oh, this person has this problem and then by halfway through the movie or show, you don't? They don't ever talk about it again and that's why it's just a subtle thing with mason having, uh, asthma. You know he has a couple times where he's taking the inhaler is. You know we made it a point to again show it a couple times.
Speaker 3:It's not like you saw it once. You're like, okay, mason has asthma and you're never going to see him take the inhaler again, or or or have asthma affect him in any way, like there's points in this. You know it's actually, I think in issue six coming up here too, and especially in season two where he needs his inhaler. You know what I mean. So it's just like that's an ongoing thing, it's not something you just it just disappears and uh, and with one of the characters that we're going to be kind of seeing, what's going on over that you guys read in issue five, here too, with the physical part too, is like what happens to her now. You know, you got that, you know huge kind of thing that happened, and another thing happened, and then another thing happened.
Speaker 2:Things happened. You need to read.
Speaker 1:And then what happens?
Speaker 2:Three things happen and they make you wonder what will happen next yeah, but truly it does what will become of that particular person? Um, the other thing I want to commend you for is having racial diversity in your stories and women with like real lines and real substance in your stories. I think that's another thing that is just. I think people are tired of now is just the brad like brad pitt only white people stay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, women have no real meaning in the story and, um, I'm not sure how intentional that was, but I think last time we talked I asked you what it was like to write from the perspective of a woman not being a woman, and I'm curious with the number of really meaningful black characters you have in your stories. Uh, how did you kind of get into that mindset or think about how to do that?
Speaker 3:well and respectfully, Um, so it's just. It's again it just having respect for things, that I'm not, you know what I mean. I'm obviously a white man, okay, so?
Speaker 3:just having, if you guys couldn't tell so it's just having respect for things, that, uh, that I don't know. You know, I mean it's, it's, it's actually doing research, it's actually listening to people, it's actually taking in what they're saying and you know, and especially, I think I can't remember if I said this on your show last time too, but what helped me? There's two people that actually helped me with the, the, the women kind of stuff. I'll speak on that because that's uh one I can think of right now is so Callie, did we talk about Callie Oberlander last time?
Speaker 2:We did, but it's totally fine to say it again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so so she was issues four and five she helped out with tremendously and just in general you know just me as a writer in general she's helped out with a lot and she helped me out with the writing of women women, again, because I don't know how women think, I don't know how women are, I don't know what.
Speaker 3:You know all that stuff, because I'm not one if you couldn't tell what. But so her giving her pointers and all that stuff too, and making sure these things are actually being met and again, like you said, women are great, women are wonderful, so they are crucial to the anything. So I don't know why, again, it's staying away from the intenseness of one main character, because every person has a role, every person, no matter what you are, and it's really showcasing that and the best way fit and again, having respect for what I don't know uh, listening to people doing, uh, just if it's videos, if it's having real conversations with people in general, it's just taking all that stuff in. And the way I like to look at it too is I like to call myself a sponge in any category, because I just as simple as talking about writing period. I didn't know how to write anything, you know.
Speaker 1:And I but.
Speaker 3:I didn't go into this thing with a big, big head saying I'm going to do this and this is. I know what I'm doing. I listen to people who know how to write. It goes it's the same thing with this. So if when you know writing Cliff and Elise and obviously they're, you know they're of the Black heritage, you know, with writing women and all that stuff too, it's listening, it's just being a sponge taking it in.
Speaker 2:I think we could be more like Brandon in many ways the world. If there are more Brandons of the world, it'd be a little kinder, just gonna say.
Speaker 3:Probably. But you know, I'm probably not as kind as I should be.
Speaker 2:But that is true. We did do a poll on Zion Book Club recently. Do you know what the question was, Brandon?
Speaker 3:Yes, like would you save somebody if they hurt your family.
Speaker 2:And uh no.
Speaker 3:I did. I mean realistically, probably not in a story setting, like if I'm writing a story, you know it's complex, you know I was thinking about this too. I was gonna bring it up and I'm glad you brought up because I forgot about it. Negan is is a perfect, perfect, perfect character. Argument for that and I love negan, I love negan and but I still wouldn't.
Speaker 3:I mean realistically I would be like maggie and I would want him dead realistically but for the show and loving jeffrey dean morgan and the character negan period, you can't kill him you know so that's. That's immediately where I went with it when you, when I saw your question online too, but but yeah, that's, I wouldn't say them negan's so lovable and so horrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course yeah, negan, he he is. He can be saved in the story because it's a story, but if this was real life, negan's a full-on narcissist, like there's no there's no redemption when, when you have that level of narcissism, so like real life. I wouldn't save Negan If I was in the world of the Walking Dead. I'd be like, all right, we'll give it six to eight years of you being in my prison, then we can be friends.
Speaker 3:Then we could be friends. Yeah, no again for the sake of the story. And just again, jeffrey Dean Morgan period, you got to love it. Yeah, I don't want him dead, even in the new spinoff, but like and again, real life, like you guys mentioned that he'd be dead in a heartbeat it's not worth the risk. Why? Why the risk?
Speaker 2:yeah, when you have so much risk elsewhere.
Speaker 1:You know the the amount of food that he eats the amount of effort that goes into building a prison cell and guarding it like one bullet's pretty cheap and and that's, and that's the whole shame mentality too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm shamed, just kill the kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just easier. But that doesn't make for a good story though.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 3:It's just too easy. Just boom. Okay, we don't have to worry about it anymore.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good question in storytelling in general and in life, which is like who is redeemable and like when do you give a second chance? And there are. That's a hard call to make because people who? There are people that are genuinely not good people, but it's hard to know that because often they are very good at appearing good. I'm curious if there's anybody like that coming up in your story. Do you have any? Do you have? Is there a true villain in your story?
Speaker 3:So, yeah, yes, so it's kind of I don't want to say too much so we're kind of and this is part of the thing too we're working on, like how we want to showcase it, because I'm trying to see how I can say this. So I had a conversation with Demetrius and Bill, which is the writer that's helping me for next season as well, and we're just going to you're going to know immediately writer that's helping me for next season as well, and uh, we're just gonna you're gonna know immediately. Uh, so there is one in the making right now that you kind of see um or or kind of there. But you'll see it, um, and the way we're gonna articulate the artwork and kind of show it to the reader. It's gonna be, it's not gonna be a kid in, but there's gonna be. You're gonna know who it is and it. But yeah, yeah, I don't know how else to say it without kind of giving too much information.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that must be so hard as a writer, to figure out the right balance.
Speaker 3:It does suck because it's like I know what it is and I'm just trying to find the best way to make it sound somewhat interesting for you to go OK yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does make me wonder if they've been introduced already. It makes me want to go back and look at it and see if I can predict who it is. You'll see. Yeah, I know you're going to say nothing else.
Speaker 3:But yeah, well, there's even people off part of the past.
Speaker 3:Again the dysfunctionality of it all as well. That'll be coming up here as well. There's a lot more of because, again, this season was really structured around the chaos and just, you know, kind of starting the apocalypse and then bringing the family to kind of gather and kind of going through their arcs that really kind of push them further. Um and and for this next season you're going to be getting a lot of stuff with obviously the chaos but with more character kind of stuff coming out. You know you're going to be seeing some behind. You know, back then past things kind of arising and and so on, and there's just there's a lot more things that'll be coming out, the things that are coming back I'm excited, I'm really excited to read that part, yeah when, when storylines evolve.
Speaker 1:I think that's the best part. Like the, the zombie apocalypse genre is like this perfect sandbox for just expanding people's stories and telling stories about them that like don't have like a whole lot of stuff to muddy the path in the way, like we don't have to explain a new kind of magic or some technology or anything. It's just, it's just. All that's left is the people and the people who used to be people.
Speaker 3:And that's, they have that simplistic factor to it as well. It's simplistic but it could be complex sometimes.
Speaker 1:But it does.
Speaker 3:It does help that you don't have to explain this, like you said, this new magic, this new, different, dystopian world. I guess this is a sort of but in some factor, but you don't have to explain anything, though. Like you said, it is what it is, you know and you're really just. The only thing you're explaining that's new is the characters, and you know what leads them to this point and all that, and making sure that you're articulating that as much as possible I want to turn to back to the community conversation we started earlier.
Speaker 2:uh, there's something that you made us aware of about a year ago and then you went to again recently and is now at the top of our list to attend, which is the Living Dead Weekend. I think you've been to that at least twice now. We've seen you go to a lot of other comic conventions Like you're out there building community and I'm curious what has been like, what that experience has been like for you.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's great, Especially when you know kind of doing it. You know, because Adeline came out in 2022, I think. So we're two years in and having an actual base, especially more so around the local area, even when it's funny because we went out to Cincinnati which is how far is that away from me? Like six hours, so it's just like. So we went to Cincinnati Con last year and I had a couple people come up to me and recognize me from shows and buying Avalon in general, which is which is awesome, cause I thought I was just going there to find new people.
Speaker 3:You know that I've never sold to or talked to or anything and kind of pitched to, but having people come up to me and kind of say they love it and they buy things, you know, and stuff like that, like like the hat, which was cool you know it was the first time I sold a hat to somebody and but just to the people and sell it, you know, pitching it to them and then having them come back, like I've sold issues to people.
Speaker 3:They buy the issue one, they're at the con, they'll read it and they'll come back and buy two and then three I'm like okay, and then they'll end up just buying all, which which again is it's just awesome. And then having them, and then having people come up and just talk in general their experience, their creative kind of mind, what they've done, too, is always fun too. Again, I like being a sponge and hearing everybody's story. You know it makes for a good story. You know what I mean. So, like, when you keep listening to people and talking to people, you get a new experience, a new way of thinking. You meet a new person. Everything's just new in that interaction. So it's just all those are always fun to me and I just I always have a blast doing the cons and and just talking to people period it gives me anxiety to think about it.
Speaker 1:Definitely, you know I want to be there too a hundred percent.
Speaker 3:I'll add to that as well, as I definitely is some sort of anxiety too is like because it's like. It's like it's just big. I don't like big gatherings, I don't like that.
Speaker 3:So I like, but like once, once I'm into it and like, if you get that first person out of the way, like it's just like not to shrug off that first person, but like, once I'm talking to that first person, it's just like, okay, I'm here, it's okay, it's not as crazy as I made it out to be. And then you start talking to everybody and it just turns into another day and meeting new people.
Speaker 2:Sounds like getting into a pool of very cold water.
Speaker 3:That first dip is like oh, did I write it right. Once you start moving, it's okay, yeah that's exactly it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we would love to run into you in one of these events one day. I'm curious how you manage it all with family and travel. What's that like? Do you get to relax or what is relaxing for you?
Speaker 3:It's crazy, google Calendar, you know, saved our lives. You know it really has. I'm not sponsoring them, but no, they've helped out a lot. Just, you know, putting on, just making sure we're constantly a week ahead at least, um, and just trying to plan out like so, with the avalon work, I'll plan it out like I'll talk to bill and then I'll say what do you got coming up in the next month or so that we can do this?
Speaker 3:You know, I'm always kind of working on avalon. It's always just running around in my head so it's like and then with social medias and everything else, so I'm like working on it basically 24 seven, but with family and juggling the family and all that stuff too, is you just got to make sure you have time for family and you're not just cooped up in a room, just disappeared and with the lights off and just staring at a blue light all day. So it's just making sure that you actually have plans and you're actually doing things with your families and not kind of disappearing. But again, google calendars really help that and making sure that we have things, we're doing things, we're going on a hike, we're doing things with the family in general and just the day job thing alone, too, is another thing. So it's just trying to make sure that again, family is the most important thing too, so it's making sure you have that time with them.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say like, with the content of your comic series being very family oriented, I can imagine there'd be moments where you're working on it and you're like wait a second.
Speaker 1:I'm not a castle family.
Speaker 2:I should probably go talk to my other family.
Speaker 1:I forgot. I have a family.
Speaker 2:This thing is about family and love. I need to go love those people.
Speaker 3:I love this family I'm writing about, don't I have one of those oh, yep, yep that's exactly it, though it's making sure the time is there for it and it's just trying to plan out my life as much as possible, even though that can be sound bad or be bad, but I think it's really it's really cool too that you're you're doing this now and your your child is way too young to probably understand, I imagine, what you are up to.
Speaker 2:But when they're older, I think you're setting a really good example of going after and like doing things that are meaningful to you, and I bet that they're going to think well, I'm sure there'll be a period where they don't think you're cool. No, that's parenting but at some point I think they'll think this is really cool.
Speaker 1:I agree with that too, and I'm prepared for that, because we've all been through that phase we've all done that to our parents, you know, uh, and somebody taking care of us too is like they're not cool, you're not cool.
Speaker 3:You know, they know the answers. You don't know anything.
Speaker 2:I know everything and then you find out real quick that you don't know anything isn't it the worst when you realize, like everybody told you, like when you're older you'll understand this, and then now you're older and you're like yeah, yeah, like, oh, wow, yeah, you're right, you're older, and you're like shh, yeah, yeah, like oh, wow, yeah You're right, you're right.
Speaker 3:It's crazy.
Speaker 1:As a kid and you're like my dad's so lame and your dad's Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2:Stupid dad. You've also been doing local events in Erie and every time I see them I'm like, oh, where's Brandon? Okay, it's eerie, cool. We're obviously going to come up there one day and surprise you at one of them. I'm curious if, uh, what has been like to have that recognition in your hometown, and if you have an Avalon Porter named after you at Bob's Steakhouse yet, because we did discover that is a real place, even though it was an accident.
Speaker 3:It was an accident and it's funny. It's funny Cause I remember searching that, making sure it's like for any like legality things, because I don't know much about it, but like making sure this wasn't a place and I swear to God it wasn't, and then years go by and I'm like here it is, but no, there isn't one there, which is actually a good thing. I probably should walk in and make sure they can see if they want to do that. But it's awesome to have Erie supporting us and because, again, that's really the reason why we're here getting it out and I think a timely fashion really too, is because, erie, you know, having our back and being there at the events, you know, spreading the word of Avalon, sharing it to friends and loved ones as well, and just sharing things as well on social media goes a long way. But having Erie kind of do that for us too and making that happen for us, it's awesome. Again, it makes Avalon what it is today. It would be such a slower process, I feel, if Erie wasn't on our side.
Speaker 1:It'd be weird to have a similar thing where I live, because where I live it's all retirees and people who own second homes and like mountainous areas.
Speaker 3:I couldn't imagine that meetup, you know yeah, I feel like it could still happen, though it's like, hey, buddy here, you want to be a part of this with me and make this become something yeah, they all show up in their uh on their teslas and and bentley's yep and there's like at least you know you're gonna change my life.
Speaker 1:Yep, I used to just be a normal rich guy, but now I'm a normal rich guy that read your book.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep. Well, maybe they'll become a patron.
Speaker 1:That's the most important part.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we gotta like really start becoming friends with all of the second homeowners around us.
Speaker 3:I really should be gearing.
Speaker 2:We, should, we should, we should.
Speaker 3:We, should, we should, we should.
Speaker 2:We should, we, should, we should, we should, we should, we should, we should.
Speaker 1:We should, we should, we should, we should, we should, we should, we should we should, we, should, we should.
Speaker 2:Pretty sure we'd get shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably, they're probably not even there, that's very true.
Speaker 3:You'll get shot by like a robot.
Speaker 1:Somebody that they pay to shoot people that come up to their door.
Speaker 3:That isn't wearing USPS.
Speaker 2:That's really true. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1:Are you sure?
Speaker 2:with FedEx.
Speaker 1:What if the CEO of UPS orders something on the internet? Who delivers that? Do they have to draw straws Like you got to go to the boss's house?
Speaker 2:I think if you're the CEO, you oh, I see what you're saying. Sorry, I totally was thinking about the opposite way of what you meant.
Speaker 1:Also, if you're a FedEx driver, what's that?
Speaker 3:like Bringing it there.
Speaker 2:They probably don't know. The only reason we know is because people told. They said look at that house across from our house.
Speaker 1:That's that's where this guy is. Yeah, sometimes, very rarely. It's very well manicured, hundreds of acres yeah, it would be great.
Speaker 2:Actually, you know what? We should make a rendezvous point for everybody if, if your area gets destroyed, brandon, come meet us at the UPS CEO guy's place, because it's a full-on farm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's not even going to be there.
Speaker 2:It's a great rendezvous point.
Speaker 3:He's not even going to be there. Yeah, just let me know after the show what the address is. I'll show up right now and I'll start making my effort.
Speaker 1:If you see our carcasses on the front lawn, don't come in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll wow. Okay, he does have a paid killer.
Speaker 2:So, I hate to bring this to a close, because we always have such a good time with you, but I would love for you to close this out by talking about your next Kickstarter for issue six and how people can find you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Avalon issue six is live in September here and we have a lot of good things going for us.
Speaker 3:We're going to be doing a bunch of different variant covers here, a cool one as well.
Speaker 3:We're looking at doing a gold cover variant, a gold foil variant, one that's going to be specific just for issue three here, and just a lot of cool things, kind of wrapping this first season up here with issue six. There's a lot of things, a lot of question marks that led up to it from issues one to five, and we're going to get that full kind of bang at the end of this issue and then so we can uproar season two here too. But a lot of cool things we're going to be offering with, like I said, with the variants, different posters as well and looking to doing something very unique but kind of expensive, unfortunately, because the item is very expensive. But we're looking to do badges for Andy and Miller, so real badges that we're going to be customizing for the world of Avalon. It's going to be like their badge wallet with their identification card and all that stuff too. So we're looking at doing that as well, if that's of anybody's interest. You know, we're going to be doing that as well.
Speaker 2:So a lot of good things coming for avalon.
Speaker 3:That sounds very fun and now I want to have one.
Speaker 2:So I get like next time I get pulled over by a cop, I can just like whip it out without any one time I gotta have a ticket, because the cop's little sister's name was leah. So family does matter see, there we go your name's leah.
Speaker 1:It's okay that you rolled through a stop sign um, yeah, I I sometimes I've been kind of thinking about badges lately this is this is a tangent, but I'm just gonna go with it because my brain is fried right now. But uh I something that I've been thinking about is how, long after the zombie apocalypse, would a police badge give you some like credit?
Speaker 3:to who's? You know that would be the question I have, you know. I mean it's not. I don't know if it would be like to an average joe, maybe, maybe some credit for a while there, but I feel like if you're talking about any other government agency, I feel like they don't care. Yeah that's the way I think of it. At least you know my brain, you know yeah, uh, but yeah, I don't know I feel like'm not following you.
Speaker 2:That would be an incident for me, sorry.
Speaker 3:You'd be like no, no way, no, no, that's something that I actually think about as well. You know, obviously, with Andy being who he is, what you know with season two and three, you know thinking about that, what like that question alone. Where does that get them? If it does get them anywhere, what does it do? And if you guys read issue one, which I know you guys have, there's a very uh, vulgar statement on one of the gas stations about police officers too, and and this and this kind of dystopian eerie that we made, uh, so that kind of foreshadows what people think about them there in eerie again, not not saying that really in eerie pa, in avalon's eerie pa, that's what people think.
Speaker 2:No, it's official. Now All of your Eerie fans are like. I'm never reading anywhere. Avalon again.
Speaker 1:Brandon Starocki speaks for Eerie Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:Brandon, I know that you're a busy guy. I'm sure you have other awesome things to be doing. I know you're doing a lot of work promoting for Issue 6 and your upcoming Kickstarter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had an amazing time again, you know once again I hope to make that. Uh, that, what is what do you guys call it? Zombie ween? Zombie ween game show? Zombie ween? Yeah, and I'm hoping to make that. So let me know when that happens and not screw over the last one, like the last one, I mean yeah well, you know, just so you know it's your fault that laurie calcaterra is the reigning zombie weaned queen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, For you then, then, uh, you know that somebody else might've might've had it. Cause cause, you introduced us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and now? Now I have to, now I have to send Laurie a mad, a bad message.
Speaker 2:We've been working overtime and we are absolutely like loony tunes.
Speaker 3:Make sure you like, share and if you can, pledge to our Issue 6 campaign coming up here with Avalon. Without your guys' support, we can't let Avalon come out at this very moment. With your guys' support, we can. We appreciate everything. As simple as a like, as simple as a share. Those are free, those are wonderful and they help us out a lot. We love you. We love you too. We love you too Okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being here, Brandon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you saved the day. That was actually a great outro. Good luck editing that, dan, that's his job.
Speaker 1:I'll make it somehow.
Speaker 2:Well, that was fun. That was fun. I'm a fan of Bran Dan.
Speaker 1:Yeah Bran.
Speaker 2:Bran, bran, dan, dan Dan. He has your name in his name.
Speaker 1:You can't spell Bran Dan without Dan, but I think it's Brandon. For what it's worth, yeah, probably is.
Speaker 2:We are feeling pretty goofy because we had a really great time and um also losing our energetic abilities after a very busy work week I'm fueled entirely by caffeine at this point me too, and, brandon, if you're listening to this, thank you for dealing with all of the loopiness that you experienced. I feel like everybody who comes on this show realizes that the two of us are just absolutely unhinged goofballs. Yeah, and there's a lot that gets edited out, so thanks yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a moment where it's like, oh, this is what it sounds like without editing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we listen to that or you listen to that part. Lately I've been listening to it while you're editing and it's pretty unhinged on our side. The interviewee is always doing a better job than we are, which is a little embarrassing. So good job, brandon Starocki.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you held it together, you rocked it.
Speaker 2:Your zombie homework is coming up in five more episodes, because this is episode 60. Episode 65 is Lindsay King Miller's the Z Word yeah, the Z Word yeah, and we're actually going to be interviewing Lindsay the.
Speaker 1:Z means zombie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a deep insight you just had. Tell me more I just figured that out.
Speaker 1:No, you did not. I was like there are zombies in this book. You already read the book.
Speaker 2:I did yeah, and you should read the book too. If you've not, it's available on audible. If you're, uh, an audio listener, like uh dan and I are, you can also get a copy. I would like to get a physical copy. Eventually, I love me an audiobook.
Speaker 1:You can really just blast through a book real fast and get that whole story right in your ear holes okay, this is ollie's description of this book and why dan and I want to read it.
Speaker 2:All. Right, I'm ready, ollie says. The very first page introduces the ex-girlfriend leah and a wild bearded white guy who we later discover has a tendency to leave his truck where it doesn't belong. It's easy to see why the zombie book club podcast likes this. Okay, ollie that's right, that does happen it's, it's true, and I'm not gonna lie. I relate to leah, so it's just I hope not too much no, not too much. Have you read the book yet? I've read half of it.
Speaker 2:I actually intentionally stopped so I would remember more details when we get to the honor of talking to lindsey king miller about it. So I'm gonna start reading it again now. Uh, and lindsey describes themselves as a disaster bisexual horror writer also makes me a big fan of them. We love disasters. Yeah, if you love rupaul's drag race and you love zombies, this, this is the book for you.
Speaker 1:You know I've said it, I've said it before, I'll say it again that's a movie I want to watch, rupaul's Drag Zombies, and that's basically what this is.
Speaker 2:It's true, there needs to be a movie, for sure.
Speaker 1:I don't. This isn't really a spoiler, but there is a lip sync For their life.
Speaker 2:life to the death, wow kind of kind of, yeah, it's just just really I can't wait.
Speaker 2:I'll also say, without giving too much uh away, that I told my co-workers I was reading this book and it's set in arizona, and I was like, yeah, it's uh. The book is basically about a zombie apocalypse that breaks out around pride weekend and the other thing about it is sort of like corporate the corporate takeover of pride or corporate co-optation of pride, and my co-worker who works in arizona said that sounds like arizona every day arizona sounds like it sucks I mean it's a great place. I politically it's got some challenges for sure.
Speaker 1:I lived in arizona for a year ish, but this was like 2001, 2002, and I did not leave fort huachuca um for more than like an hour.
Speaker 2:So all I know is it's hot. There's a great vegan breakfast place, and four hours north of phoenix is the grand canyon, and two hours north of Phoenix is the Grand Canyon and two hours north of Phoenix is Sedona, and that's all I know.
Speaker 1:Right, and I went to Phoenix for truck driving school.
Speaker 2:That's right yeah, I like I like Arizona.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really awesome place let's go to.
Speaker 2:Arizona. Yeah, but while we're there, why don't we we make some beef with the Arizona County, some beef with the arizona county? I forgot what they're called. It's the acc something, commissioners they're in charge of the power there and they're not very nice. Yeah, that's all. I don't bring up my work, uh, on this podcast because I don't want to get in trouble at work yeah, take that acc just me speaking on my own behalf, the acc, which half of you don't know what that is. It's not very nice. Look it up, yeah.
Speaker 1:They're not nice, no. So in the book, wendy teams up with a drag queen named Logan, a silver fox named Bo, a sword lesbian named Aurelia what is a sword lesbian? This book was the first time I've ever heard of one but her wife, sam sam, mysterious stone stoner sunshine sunshine's amazing in this book, one of my favorite characters and ex-girlfriend, leah, ollie wants a, wants a series, the next series, a book, to be about sunshine yeah, call, call it arizona sunshine which actually is the name of a vr video game about zombies and if you want to know what a sword lesbian it's a sapphic who is in some capacity interested in swords and other similar weapons sounds very useful in his own apocalypse.
Speaker 2:Like xena the warrior princess, one of the first uh, queer icons I had, I think, growing up was xena and her girlfriend, whose name, oh, gabrielle gabriella it's been a while, don't hate Maybe. Gabriella, it's been a while. Don't hate me, I don't remember. It's been a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to watch Hercules and I don't know what his pal's name is. Did he have a boyfriend? Barney Rubble, he looked like Barney Rubble.
Speaker 2:Regardless, get the book, Give it a read. It's going to be fun. Ask for listener questions before we interview Lindsay. So if you have anything that you as a burning question you can let us know, you can also just share with us any kind of burning questions. Zombie apocalypse tip a promo for your own book that has zombies in it in some way. That's our only criteria. Yeah, it's called the elevator pitch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can just send it to us. Come into our elevator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't charge for this. I, we don't charge for this. I want to be really explicit. We do not get paid for anything that we do at Zombie Book Club. We pick the books we want to pick, we pick the interviewees we want to talk to and we offer this as a free platform for people because we really believe in the indie community and want to support it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And if anybody claims they are Zombie Book Club and wants to charge you for an elevator pitch, don't believe them.
Speaker 2:No, it's a lie. Come to us directly at 614-699-0006 or email us at zombie book club podcast at gmailcom although, I will be honest, we're very slow at email and I'm much faster at instagram yeah, there's a reply longer. Things are better in email because then I can refer back to them, like if you want to talk about an interview or something like that also voice quality is better when you send a voice message through email. This is true. You can send an audio recording.
Speaker 1:The voicemails are a little bit lower quality grade, but that's kind of the appeal I like.
Speaker 2:it Makes me think of the times where I used to listen to call-in radio shows.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or argued with people through a speaker box about your order at a fast food restaurant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I said impossible burger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't want any pickles, no and no mayo. And then they give you a box of just pickles and mayo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how miscommunication happens, Actually. On that note, I've got to go make some green curry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it's.
Speaker 2:Dan's brother's birthday party tonight, I made a cheesecake, a vegan cheesecake that we're gonna eat, which is very good. Yeah, I'm, I would. I would become a zombie if the exchange was free vegan cheesecake for the rest of my life yeah, I'm dead.
Speaker 1:I'm into it. Let's just eat cheesecake all through the apocalypse. Um, don't forget to subscribe everyone. Uh, rate and review. It helps us. Uh, helps us spread like a virus, um, and infect your ear canals. Um, it doesn't sound like something you want to do, but I assure you it is pleasant.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you know, I have a very special request, which is I would love to see new written reviews on Apple podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they have reviews on Apple podcasts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you give us a review, we will read it. Please give us five stars, even if it's bad. If you hate this and you've made this long, then that's a choice.
Speaker 1:Give us five stars. Give us five stars and we'll read about how much you hate us, because we don't read one-star reviews.
Speaker 2:No yeah, if you have something bad to say, it's got to be a five star, as far as I know there are any one stars, because then I think our rating would be lower. But anyways, come chat with us on Instagram or threads. Great review. Yeah, thanks for listening. Go get Avalon comic series. Make sure to support the Kickstarter in any way that you can, including just liking or sharing it. Like Brandon said, that counts for a lot.
Speaker 2:All those in the description and in the link tree and all the other places it's. I mean yeah it's down there.
Speaker 1:It's down there.
Speaker 2:Go take a look okay, everybody down I hope this finds you wherever you are eating some cheesecake. Have a good day, good night, goodbye. Yeah, the end is nigh. Au revoir, bye-bye.
