Zombie Book Club

Daryl Dixon goes to France for some reason | Zombie Book Club Podcast Episode 37

March 24, 2024 Zombie Book Club Season 2 Episode 37
Daryl Dixon goes to France for some reason | Zombie Book Club Podcast Episode 37
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Zombie Book Club
Daryl Dixon goes to France for some reason | Zombie Book Club Podcast Episode 37
Mar 24, 2024 Season 2 Episode 37
Zombie Book Club

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Hold on to your baguettes, because we're dissecting "Daryl Dixon", where we follow Daryl from The Walking Dead as he stumbles into zombified France in his own spin off. We're peeling back the layers of character development and questioning whether the series is losing its human touch amidst the gore, and pondering if the latest spin-off is more famine than feast in the substance department.

We dish out our dreams for the future of the franchise while keeping our critique glasses firmly in place. Can the series redeem itself and give us the depth we crave? Join us on this roller coaster of emotions and opinions, as we bring you survival tips, existential musings, and a fair share of laughter along the way.


Follow our linktree for social media links, and links to all the places you can find our podcast!
https://linktr.ee/zombiebookclub

ZBC Discord Server
https://discord.com/invite/8hCSb4eg

Zombie Book Club Voicemail
(614) 699-0006‬

Zombie Book Club Email
ZombieBookClubPodcast@gmail.com

Our Secret Website That Isn't Finished
https://zombiebookclub.io

Our Merchandise Store (Where you can find our Evil Magic Chicken Zombie Shirts)
https://zombie-book-club.myspreadshop.com

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Hold on to your baguettes, because we're dissecting "Daryl Dixon", where we follow Daryl from The Walking Dead as he stumbles into zombified France in his own spin off. We're peeling back the layers of character development and questioning whether the series is losing its human touch amidst the gore, and pondering if the latest spin-off is more famine than feast in the substance department.

We dish out our dreams for the future of the franchise while keeping our critique glasses firmly in place. Can the series redeem itself and give us the depth we crave? Join us on this roller coaster of emotions and opinions, as we bring you survival tips, existential musings, and a fair share of laughter along the way.


Follow our linktree for social media links, and links to all the places you can find our podcast!
https://linktr.ee/zombiebookclub

ZBC Discord Server
https://discord.com/invite/8hCSb4eg

Zombie Book Club Voicemail
(614) 699-0006‬

Zombie Book Club Email
ZombieBookClubPodcast@gmail.com

Our Secret Website That Isn't Finished
https://zombiebookclub.io

Our Merchandise Store (Where you can find our Evil Magic Chicken Zombie Shirts)
https://zombie-book-club.myspreadshop.com

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a spin-off of your favorite thing with your favorite character, but written by someone else, and you're just crossing your fingers that they don't fuck it up.

Speaker 2:

The kind to do it Spoiler, isn't that our whole podcast? Anyways, who are you? Who's talking?

Speaker 1:

I'm Dan, and when I'm not fighting off acid zombies with a day old baguette, I'm writing a book about how the lines that divide us today are only strengthened in a zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Leah and I passed my citizenship test 10 out of 10, baby Yay, fully acknowledging that baby is inspired by Nicole Byer, my favorite podcaster, nicole.

Speaker 1:

Byer, yeah, baby.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to be able to vote this year, in 2024, which I've talked a little bit about before in other episodes. It's really scary. I don't like it. Yeah, who are you going to vote for? We're not talking about that. I would choose a zombie apocalypse or the ethical quandaries of participating in the United States political system.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my God, me too.

Speaker 2:

So let's talk about something much less stressful.

Speaker 1:

Can we vote zombies?

Speaker 2:

I mean, you can write in zombies, you can write in whatever you want.

Speaker 1:

If they win, do we get zombies?

Speaker 2:

I feel like we're already there, so I don't know, but today what we're talking about is the Walking Dead spin-off, daryl Dixon. Yeah, Daryl Because we're never talking about the previous seasons of Walking Dead, except for season 11.

Speaker 1:

We need to do that.

Speaker 2:

We do, but season 11 ruined our plans for doing that, because it upset us so much we had these plans.

Speaker 1:

We were going to be like let's talk about seasons one through three.

Speaker 2:

We were going to talk about like themes, like we're going to just talk about, just about Daryl and Carol, or just about Michonne.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or just about like the Ark of Children. We had like some specific ideas to make it more interesting in the seasons, but then we watched season 11 and was we were like what the fuck? Yeah, and it really made us hesitate to watch any spin-off.

Speaker 1:

It's true, we waited literally until now to watch Daryl Dixon. We have not watched Dead City. We are in the process of watching the ones who live, because it's now airing while we're recording this.

Speaker 2:

And it's fucking good.

Speaker 1:

But that's another episode.

Speaker 2:

There's a new episode tonight. I know it's going to be four to Sundays, which is new. Sunday nights are usually like not a good time, but because of that it is good. We release episodes every Sunday on all podcasting platforms, so if you like us, subscribe.

Speaker 1:

Every single one. Yep, yeah, dan is constantly editing.

Speaker 2:

now, it's all he does.

Speaker 1:

It's all I do, and soon I'm going to have to go back to work.

Speaker 2:

I know I don't know how you're going to do that, but we'll figure it out.

Speaker 1:

I'm probably just going to work myself into a mental breakdown.

Speaker 2:

We'll probably just eat more pre-made meals to get by We'll be able to afford it more. Yeah, or we'll make your brother cook for us, because he's really good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the solution. Yeah, Simon, come here and cook for us every day. Yeah, we definitely just have him this episode.

Speaker 2:

so he knows the expectation. Well, let's talk about Daryl Dixon.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what is Daryl Dixon?

Speaker 2:

What is it what?

Speaker 1:

is it Daryl?

Speaker 2:

Dixon, this feels like a philosophical question.

Speaker 1:

It is, it should be.

Speaker 2:

What is a Daryl? Dixon, I love dissecting Walking Dead characters and philosophical terms, Daryl Dixon is an example of somebody who grew up with a lot of toxic masculinity which will be our topic of our next episode, actually and somehow kind of got a little better over time and has a good heart. Yeah, that's Daryl Dixon A victim of abuse.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, daryl Dixon, it's a spin-off series from the Walking Dead. In case you haven't guessed, it's set in a post-apocalyptic France. They also had an apocalypse there.

Speaker 2:

They did. We learned that through this show.

Speaker 1:

And it focuses on the character of Daryl Dixon as he navigates through the challenges of a world overrun by walkers Weird. You think that he'll be able to handle that.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. He seems less competent in this show.

Speaker 1:

We'll get into that though In the ventures in the new territory. The series explores Daryl's encounters with various survivors and threats. I wonder if they've ever done that in the Walking Dead. Introducing new characters and dynamics familiar to the universe of the Walking Dead, the show aims to expand Daryl's story, offering fans a fresh perspective on the zombie apocalypse in a European setting.

Speaker 2:

Is it fresh or is it like really old cheese? Is it blue cheese?

Speaker 1:

It's blue cheese when some people like it.

Speaker 2:

You know what. That's actually a good metaphor.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The Daryl Dixon. Those are preview door sets. Daryl Dixon is a blue cheese. Do you either love it or you don't, or you're kind of willing to eat it because you really like cheese.

Speaker 1:

And if you go to France there's probably a lot of really fancy blue cheese that you can get, but this is like the hidden Valley Blue Cheese dressing.

Speaker 2:

And why is Daryl Dixon in France? You know, they could have just had him go to Canada, he could have gone to Canada, you're right, or you know the UK, or Iceland or Greenland. So many places? Why France?

Speaker 1:

I guess there's a lot of fans Could have gone to LA.

Speaker 2:

A lot of French fans of the Walking Dead.

Speaker 1:

That's true. I mean to expand the series into Europe. That's opening up a huge new demographic of people that could enjoy it because they're like oh, that looks like the place that I'm from.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I will say that's probably true, because what's interesting about the show, just getting right into it, is like there's a lot of French speaking in it and it's not dubbed into English, which I appreciated, because one as a Canadian like I, was like, oh my gosh, I actually understand a lot not all of what they're saying, but that was selfish. Mostly I just appreciated it because I think it's kind of weird when we dub, like in those kinds of contexts where there's clearly an English speaker and a non-English speaker, it's weird that we're like dubbing the French folks or whatever. So it felt more authentic in that way. But why is Daryl in France? We still don't fully understand that question.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the answer to that question even after watching the full season.

Speaker 1:

Several episodes in. They gave like a little bit of backstory. I feel like they should have just given it right in episode one, like hey, he was here in Maine and then this happened, and then this happened, and then he found himself on a boat, and then this happened, and now he's floating to France. Instead, we had to wait like several episodes before we were like, yeah, how was it that he was just floating on a rowboat in the middle?

Speaker 2:

of the ocean. Yeah, he just rowboat it all the way over from. I mean people have done worse.

Speaker 1:

If anyone could, it's possible.

Speaker 2:

It's Daryl. I think before we get into this we should talk a little bit like who is Daryl, Like we gave a little bit of a.

Speaker 1:

Daryl. Context there. Daryl is a guy.

Speaker 2:

Daryl, so do we not want to talk at all about his backstory in the Walking Dead before we get into this?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I guess you know Daryl's from Georgia. You know, before the Walking Dead events took place, he once said that he'd never left Georgia. Like he was born in Georgia, he stayed in Georgia. He never left Georgia until he went to Virginia.

Speaker 2:

In poverty and in like sort of like rural or Georgia, which there's a lot of that I've seen a lot. Georgia is one of those places that has like really stark wealth gaps and rural Georgia especially can look pretty, pretty sad, like it's awful. There's just not a lot of support there.

Speaker 1:

Georgia does poor in a very different way than everywhere else in the country.

Speaker 2:

It was when I moved down there like a reality check from Canada. There's lots of poverty in Canada, but it's not, as you're not looking at, like a creepy plantation mansion and then right beside it somebody who has no access to power and lives in like a cinder block room.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Who eats?

Speaker 1:

possums. Yeah, that's definitely Daryl.

Speaker 2:

Daryl had to learn to hunt early. He's actually a really important context of Daryl. Daryl is an incredible hunter, really good with a compound bow Crossbow.

Speaker 1:

I don't know the difference I mean he could probably shoot a compound bow, I bet.

Speaker 2:

No idea. I know it's a bow, there's an arrow involved. He's good at it, he shoots those arrows. Yeah, and he's like really tough in the Walking Dead series itself. He kind of goes from this really like gruff, super repressed, angry, sad dude, Quiet but angry.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Bikery kind of guy to like this sort of surprise angel. Like he wears this. I'm like describing this as nobody's watched Daryl before, but you never know who's listening to this he's wearing the best.

Speaker 1:

What is the Walking Dead?

Speaker 2:

It's true, he's one of the best parts, which is why he has his own spinoff, but he wears a vest that has angel wings on it and I think that that's actually intentional and sort of indicating that while on all of the levels, when you first meet someone like Daryl, you're not going to think or even that he's a great guy or trust him and probably be a little afraid, he's actually incredibly kind and loving and compassionate and is there to help people as long as he likes you, when they need it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if he doesn't like you, then he'll pull your fingernails off. Yeah, he might. That's Daryl, and now he's in France. Yeah, he's in France and he's in France because he went searching for Rick. Yeah, but the end of season 11 still isn't around and there's this indication that he might be alive, and so he goes off on a journey to try and find Rick.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think he's also continuing his old role of like being the person that goes out and finds communities as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That Aaron gave him.

Speaker 2:

He's doing both.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But somehow he's in France.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's talk about France.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what is the Walking Dead like in France?

Speaker 1:

So I kind of I mean this is my first criticism Is that I felt like the French countryside. It introduced this like walking dead light version. This is like. This is like the low calorie walking dead.

Speaker 2:

You know, it felt like they cleaned up a lot of their zombies by the time we got there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there was almost no zombies and, yeah, infrequent walker Encounters. It seems like there's almost no walkers anywhere until there's a moment where it furthers the plot that there are some zombies. Zombies show up when it furthers the plot, so like if. If Darrell's like about to take out the big bad guy with one single shot, that's like oh, there's a zombie there, we got a run now.

Speaker 2:

Yep or needs to get separated from people because they're separated yeah and the horse needs to get eaten as a plot device. Or is it a horse or a mule, I don't remember. Oh no, it's a mule and then you'll needs to get eaten as a plot device for this kid to like, grow up and realize that the world is hard.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and also to throw a wrench in their plans so that they don't have like a quick mule trip to where they're going. They got to do it on foot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I will say, like French society, there's like groups of people, very much like the United States at this point. There's a whole community of nuns. The nun Isabel is really important. We'll talk more about her in a moment. So people are actually doing kind of okay, like I didn't see a lot of people that were super desperate or starving or like brimy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it almost seemed like they were unaware that there were zombies.

Speaker 2:

They did sort of accepted it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Let's talk about the story pacing, because that was also like really painful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, it moves a lot, it's fine, right, but like what? The first thing that I noticed is that the that the episodes followed like this, this kind of like Scooby-Doo Formula of like oh boys, let's jump out of the mule wagon and solve this groups problems. And then they go and they meet the new, the new group of whoever the fuck, and they're like oh well, we have a problem with mr Mr Frank's down the road, who's so all of our stuff? We can't get our stuff back. And he's like well, I'm American, so I'll go fix your problem for you, I know how to use a gun and then he goes and finds mr Frank and then Kills him and then brings back all their food or whatever.

Speaker 1:

And then it's like now we ride off into the sunset on our mule wagon.

Speaker 2:

You know, something that I did appreciate, though, was like there were so many fewer guns, because guns are less available and they were all like old.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was. A cool part is like all of their weapons were like World War one era.

Speaker 1:

Like shitty weapons yeah with the exception of, like, a rare Thompson submachine gun that was on a wall once. Yeah, that made me mad, I didn't even tell you about that. So, like they have this medieval armory where Daryl goes and he gets like a flail, he grabs like a knife and then he grabs like an eight, late, late 200 bolt action rifle Wow, but leaves the Thompson submachine gun on the wall Wow, and it's like um dude, you're going off into the French countryside where I know there's no zombies, but they will show up when there's a plot.

Speaker 2:

This brings me to a really important part about Daryl's character in this show. Before we get into who some of the other main characters are that are important for you to know, daryl is in the original locking dead is sort of known as this, like bad ass person who is able to handle Intensely difficult scenarios. Because of the way he grew up, I think he's able to tolerate a lot of shit.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of like, really like, like, not street smarts, but like woods smarts.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he also like is not the kind of person who's going to make stupid fuck ups that are going to like Get him in trouble, because he's very aware of his surroundings and he's aware of, like, where things should go. And in this show, this new show, daryl, it's like that got thrown out of the window and he just can. He consistently makes really fucking stupid rookie mistakes. Yeah can I say one without that's?

Speaker 1:

more than that Dan.

Speaker 2:

So the one that really pissed me off and I'm proud of myself for playing this out before you did about the gun he puts a gun.

Speaker 1:

I was. I was like in shock silence.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he puts his gun down while he's. So he's got a prisoner. Who is the bad bad guy? Of course, right, because like it's very like bad guys, good guys World in France walking dead and the guys like tied up behind him Behind this cart, that ties to the me.

Speaker 2:

War is pulling and he puts the fucking gun down to fix something on the cart right in front of the person who he's trying to keep captured and Stop from hurting people, who then, of course, gets the gun. I'm like it was like so obvious, yeah, and I just couldn't believe that. Norman, uh, reedus, yeah, norman.

Speaker 1:

Reedus.

Speaker 2:

Norman Reedus would like allow that. I can't believe he didn't like read that script and be like are you fucking kidding me that Darrell would never do this?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, never never in a million years.

Speaker 2:

No, I wouldn't do this and I don't know shit, but I would not do that.

Speaker 1:

I'm pretty sure literally anyone who's ever even thought about a firearm for a second and what they would do in a scenario where somebody was trying to kill them, would probably not put a gun right in front of their enemy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, to grab it was really just.

Speaker 1:

There were so many dumb moments because it wasn't it wasn't even like he put it down in front of him. It's like he's working on the on on the wagon and he's like let me put my gun down, go to the rear of the wagon where the guy is standing, puts his rifle there, then goes back to the way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah walks away, so the guy has plenty of time to grab it. It was Infuriating. I feel like Norman Reedus is cashing in good for him, but also like what do you want to preserve your legacy? Yeah but he's such a good actor Like he carries it all really well, but there's just so many things in this series that I'm just like Darrell would never behave like that. Yeah, and it's not because there's growth happening. In fact, it's like he's getting dumber.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, speaking of character growth, let's talk about character growth, hmm, or character development as we have it in our notes. Yeah, so most characters appear to be these, like two dimensional, more like they're archetypes than they are fully realized individuals. Yeah, and I don't know, like I did, I had a hard time connecting to anyone who wasn't like the main three characters, like you have Darrell, you have Isabel and what's the kid's name, laurent, laurent and like they're the only ones that are like that, have any amount of backstory or complexity to them. Everybody else is just like, even even the guy tied to the mule wagon. You know, he, he kind of had a backstory, but he's also just like. He was just like a caricature. He's just like hey, I'm an American, I came to France, look at all my guns.

Speaker 2:

That's actually a really good description. The villains are very much caricatures in this show too, like there's the evil lady who's Running the new government. So I think it's like the Union of Hope or whatever, but she's completely.

Speaker 1:

Like we know some issues.

Speaker 2:

We know she has some issues, but there's really no time for backstory and she's just like every, just basically she's like the United States politicians. Yeah like nothing surprising, nothing interesting about her, nothing redeeming, nothing complex also no real reason why anybody's following her.

Speaker 1:

Yeah other than like she's in charge.

Speaker 2:

She's in charge, so they're following there was one other good backstory, but I'll get to that later. I think the people that you need to know For the purposes of this episode, if you have not watched to get is Isabel is a nun who is not always a nun. She used to love drugs and party drugs and banging.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, dudes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and Laura is her Nephew yeah because her sister died in the apocalypse.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, my first day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and she raises Laurent in the Nunnery. No, is that what you call them?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think it's a nunnery. I'm not ready. We go to get some nuns.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and honestly, like we just give a shout to the nuns, they seem to be doing great in the apocalypse. Like they have Organized, they were comfortable, they had everything they needed, they had a great garden.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they seem to make the most sense out of all of the groups of survivors that we saw, like they had a purpose, they had a reason for surviving, which is like their tenacity, and also the. The Nunnery that they lived in was basically a fortress. Yeah, we meet so many groups of survivors along the way in this series that are just like you know. They have like a gimmick like ooh, we're all kids and we were at the preschool and we survived somehow.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's annoying. All of those storylines are annoying. The storyline that would have been fun for me. How about Darryl just hangs out of the Nunnery? Yeah, it's kind of cool there. I want to know these nun ladies.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure they've got some good stories and like, yeah, and I was kind of hoping for that, they lived their life because, like you know, the Walking Dead did a really good job of, like you know, sitting with a character for a period of time and like just showing you their day. For the most part Like that was most of the Walking Dead was like yeah, this person's gonna go for a walk today because they're fed up with so-and-so, and along the way they're gonna find some sunglasses, and these sunglasses are gonna be so cool and they're just gonna be like, yeah, fuck, everything I know everything sucks but sunglasses. And then Then some some zombies show up and they're like oh, no, zombies. And then they got a run and then they go back to Alexandria. You're like boys, I had one Interesting day. Look at these sunglasses.

Speaker 2:

Then later they get their head blown off. But you know they have some good sunglasses.

Speaker 1:

But there was like none of that like build-up layers, no, none of that storytelling there. It's just like, yeah, we're at a Nunnery this today, tomorrow we're off to the orphan kids and then after that it's the 24-hour nightclub underground in the tombs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, which again like seems interesting but also unrealistic, because it's loud, although maybe in the catacombs it's quieter, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I just don't like they were running as like a nightclub business, but like there wasn't a whole lot of explanation about that, like how, like, where are they getting their booze from? Where's the drugs coming from?

Speaker 2:

How are they powering?

Speaker 1:

it. How are they financing it? Like is there money involved? Are people bartering? Like, and then you don't see the bartering. So it's like somebody trading a live chicken for a shot vodka, like what the fuck?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. Let's talk more about the antagonists because, like I've given you sort of a broad strokes. Like they sucked him were kind of useless.

Speaker 1:

But what were their motives? Leah.

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Me either. One of them was mad at.

Speaker 2:

Darrell because he escaped from their fucking yes, so politician lady was like you know she has.

Speaker 1:

she has these big cargo ships and they put Darrell on one of those ships and then he was like I went off and then he left.

Speaker 2:

Well, it was more than that. I mean like, first of all, whatever backstory we did get about how he got to France and why this woman hates him we're really dumb. Yeah, like why are they transporting zombies to France? Are they're not like again?

Speaker 1:

why they're not fresh out.

Speaker 2:

Not, they're just fresh out of zombies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the. That's why there's so few zombies.

Speaker 2:

It's Europe. There's a large population of people over there. I don't understand. They want American zombies, they want the best zombies special zombies and they're going to feed Darrell to the zombies. So Darrell escaped and like, I guess like fucked up the boat or whatever, but like this person is such a vendetta against Darrell it's unreasonable.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like going, going against like they, like they don't care if it ruins them. No, they don't care if it destroys everything that they've worked so hard to accomplish. You're like one random guy caused a minor inconvenience for us and now we need to spend every expense to get him.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it just seemed really stupid. The one person had a legitimate beef with him because Darrell killed his brother.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but even so, if all the antagonists he had the most interesting arc.

Speaker 2:

Why is that?

Speaker 1:

Because, because he kind of had like a redemption story at the end when he's just like you know what, I don't want to kill you anymore. Yeah, so I'm going to kill my guys and then walk off into the sunset.

Speaker 2:

Did you find Isabelle's character interesting?

Speaker 1:

A little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but not that much. She really was felt like a plot device to me for the most part and like a mild love interest of Darrell's.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and like she has a, she has a. The most interesting thing about Isabelle is her backstory. Until we saw what her backstory was, I couldn't say that she was an interesting character.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all we knew about Isabelle was like she really loves God because she was going around putting signs up saying God loves you and then, but honestly, like her backstory just feels cliche, like bad girl becomes a nun I don't know, I've seen it before yeah, and also like her relationship with the drug den nightclub guy who was her boyfriend before. I think the pandemic, the apocalypse happens.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just cliche, like everything about it is like I've just seen it before and I'm trying not to describe details because you know we're trying harder to not spoil everything. Yeah trying. But I don't know if it makes the episode better or worse If we don't talk about details.

Speaker 1:

You know, we definitely jumped into it quicker.

Speaker 2:

We did. That's, that's true. That's very true. Yeah, oh yeah, dan, we got to talk about zombie types.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, the zombie lore and new zombie types. This is something that bothered me since season 11 of the Walking Dead and season 11 of the Walking Dead spoiler alert. Speaking of spoilers, they introduced these like new, like nimble, smart zombies and they're like. Ooh, they're mutated and, like anybody who understands anything about biology, even like a small amount is like how does a corpse mutate?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're acidic.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so yeah, let's, let's back up a little bit. We have a new zombie type in France.

Speaker 2:

It's called the acid zombie.

Speaker 1:

Nobody understands how it works or why it exists.

Speaker 2:

At first I thought it was like only that one building had like some sort of weird chemical contamination. But there's like all of these as it like they're just if you cut into them they'll fucking burn you with acid. It's bizarre.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, also, their skin is acid, so like if they grab onto your under your arm. It grabbed Darryl's arm and it like burned a handprint into them.

Speaker 2:

But also, how do these still have flesh if they're inside your acid, like this acid is?

Speaker 1:

is like highly corrosive, like a little tiny bit got on Darryl right at the beginning and like caused a serious, serious burn. If these zombies had this, like they say, it's acid blood. That's, that's what I've read is that the creator said that they have acid blood now.

Speaker 2:

Why it's stupid and unnecessary.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they shouldn't even have blood, first of all because they've been dead for 12 fucking years but like that level of corrosive acidity would have dissolved all of their flesh. Yeah, so like you're also expecting me to believe that the chemical composition of their flesh has changed to resist the corrosive nature of the acid?

Speaker 2:

But only in France. But only in France, and then there's the zombies that have been like, adapted for fighting purposes, like they're trying to create a soldier, they're trying to create an army of like just trying to do something we don't know. It's kind of like a weird. I feel like it was like a weird nod to 28 days later, because they would inject the zombies with things and then they'd become like super rage, fast, hardcore zombies, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And this is like the only zombie new zombie type that I actually like, because they at least explained why these zombies are different from other zombies, and that's because they inject these zombie drugs into them. We don't know what the drugs are, but when they, when they are injected with these zombie drugs, they become super fast and super feral and fast and agile and strong. The cool thing about this is that it at least adds another layer of complexity to the zombie rule, which is that, like, they can inject zombies with the zombie drug, but only one in six zombies will react positively to it. That's odd, and if they have a negative reaction to it, their head fucking explodes.

Speaker 2:

Can we also talk about why it is that they would feel like they need to feed zombies when zombies don't need to be?

Speaker 1:

So on the boat that that Daryl was on, they also brought live human beings on to to feed to the zombies.

Speaker 2:

Daryl was one of them.

Speaker 1:

And Daryl was one of them. I don't know why the writers feel like they need to reinvent the zombie lore of the Walking Dead. I feel like they were very simple rules to the walkers.

Speaker 2:

What were they?

Speaker 1:

that they are slow, that they are undead and that they are never changing. They don't change. They are just always the same and they just continue to decompose more and more. I don't understand why they feel the need to be like oh well, now there's a zombie that does karate and we have to feed our. We have to feed our zombies, or else they get hungry.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if they did polls and there's like people out there that are like I want weirder zombies.

Speaker 1:

Oh, there's for sure. There's people that are like I'm bored of the same old zombies over and over again.

Speaker 2:

Those are the incels of the world the whole thing that was good about the Walking Dead the original series was always the characters.

Speaker 2:

Yeah always the character development, the feeling of connection, the realness of the people the follow different stories, that like maybe you would never meet somebody like this in real life and it would give you some insight and compassion. And then all of a sudden it's like I don't know and like I guess Gore was a part of it. But honestly it was always my least favorite part, like I don't need to see a zombie be taken apart, I don't need to see an acid zombie, I don't need to see a rageroid zombie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and, like the Walking Dead, had it figured out right out of the gate, because they knew that the best zombie narratives were never about zombies. George Romero knew that from day one. George Romero, when he made Night of the Living Dead, like sure there were zombies and they were trying to get inside of the farmhouse, but it was about the drama that was happening inside the farmhouse.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Not the flesh eating ghouls outside. In fact, they were so hilariously slow that you could never possibly be scared of those zombies until they were banging on the door.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just, it's a real missed opportunity and the character that I wish that they did all more, laurent, is the kid who spoiler alert is the world a bunch of religious people who believe this kid is like a chosen one because they were born after the pregnant mom was infected and then she died.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he was a miracle baby.

Speaker 2:

He was a miracle baby.

Speaker 1:

Therefore he's like the second coming of Jesus or some shit like that, yeah, but also they the so at the nunnery they explained that they combined all the religions into one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 1:

So like they have, like they have like all the religious symbols on their wall and it's like I don't believe that that would happen in the apocalypse. I feel like the divisions would become greater.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. Or maybe the other way around. I will say, the one and only nun that I have known well really surprised me in her beliefs. Like she loved crop circles, for example, loved them. She was really fascinated by Buddhist mandala, Buddhist mandala's and studied a lot of other religions. So I think that, like I can actually see that, because I think that people who are nuns or monks are probably more complex than we give them credit.

Speaker 1:

I meant more society as a whole.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but we're talking about nuns. Yeah, nuns would do shit like that.

Speaker 1:

Well, they also. But they also created this like network of, like various settlements that, like we're all part of this new religion type.

Speaker 2:

I don't totally understand how that works Like, but there is this idea that there's, like this, some sort of sacred connection, or the very least I think the key thing is is that these nuns have almost started like a new religion and it centers around Laurent being this like chosen kid, and I wish they'd explored more what it was like to be Laurent, with this very bizarre expectation of him they reminded me of, like, what it must be like if you're the kid who picked the thing that was formerly the last Buddha or not Buddha, the last Dalai Lama, like one of the last Dalai Lama's objects, and therefore you are the Dalai Lama and I'm not like you're raised, like that. Yeah, I would have been interested in sort of depicting that a little bit more. They do kind of show us that Laurent has a special connection with people and is very kind, gentle, but beyond that I don't know if there's any like magical superpowers that he has.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I bet he's immune to zombies.

Speaker 2:

That's what you think.

Speaker 1:

That's what I think, you know. I think I think that these, these, the writers, were like you know, I just played this game. I don't know if anybody's ever heard of it, but it's called the Last of Us and it's weird because one of the characters was born when their mom was being bitten by a zombie, so now they're immune to zombies. Can we do that in hours? Like nobody's ever heard of this game?

Speaker 2:

I don't think it does feel like a direct rip off.

Speaker 1:

It does. So that's that's what I'm waiting for, and they kind of also like, suggested that. And one of Daryl's you know, one of one of his delusions dreams something you had a dream. You got knocked out and he had this dream that Laurent was was walking through zombies and they weren't noticing him.

Speaker 2:

That's right yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So basically they created a religion of thinking this kid might have some sort of key to a cure.

Speaker 1:

Magic baby.

Speaker 2:

Magic baby Dan. How did you feel about the writers of this show?

Speaker 1:

Boy Like let's, I'll be, I'll be real. I didn't like it. However, it's not as bad as Fear of the Walking Dead, season four and up it had a couple episodes that were like.

Speaker 2:

I remember that it was one of those shows where I feel like the writing got better the further into the show we got True yeah. And it gives me hope for the future. But the first couple of episodes I remember trying to do being like, if this is for the work Walking Dead, I'm turning this off Like.

Speaker 1:

I can't.

Speaker 2:

And if this is a season 11 again situation, I can't do this.

Speaker 1:

It does feel a little bit like maybe some Fear of the Walking Dead writers moved over. I don't know what the fuck is going on with the Walking Dead franchise, but it seems like they've spread out their, their writers, so much that, like the, the quality is really suffering. So the first thing that I would say about the writing is that the, the narratives, they, suffer from a severe lack of consequences and stakes like that. Like nothing ever has a consequence really, and it just seems like that there's walking through the countryside and then sometimes a bad guy shows up. That's what's kind of all. All it is.

Speaker 2:

They have a quirky band of kids, which is the most Scooby-Doo episode there was.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was the most, Are they?

Speaker 2:

trying to appeal to a younger audience. I don't really know, maybe.

Speaker 1:

I never really actually felt like any of the characters had been surviving a zombie apocalypse for 12 years. Yeah, it gives me like they knew. They knew what they were doing for the most part, but it really gives me like six months in vibes, yeah, you know, and like there was just so much that was unexplained. Like there was this time where Daryl's just running through Paris and there's like zombies banging on a gate and that he runs past and then just kind of like pans up to like somebody playing cello in an apartment, and like people are just like sitting around lounging, talking to each other, just like having a good old French time, and it's just like like do they like? Is this what they do? Is this Like nobody seems to be concerned about? Like hey, you know we're in the apocalypse and access to food and clean water is a problem, so let's play cello, let's like hang out in all the rich people's palaces.

Speaker 2:

There was a lot of that. Yeah, a lot of palace hanging out, but as usual, I don't know where people went to the bathroom. I'm really shocked. Yeah, they didn't.

Speaker 1:

And like they went down into the tombs, and if you know about the tombs of Paris, that was kind of cool.

Speaker 2:

I did enjoy seeing.

Speaker 1:

One of my favorite parts of World War Z was when they talked about the people who went into the tombs to survive and how they spent like years in the dark fighting zombies, going through these like catacombs of human bones basically. But you know what they did here instead of like turning into a big like underground city, they just put a nightclub there. Yeah, people go to this nightclub.

Speaker 2:

They said it was like just give them a survival space.

Speaker 1:

It is bumping, even though it's like 11 o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2:

Dan. They want to enjoy all the rich places they couldn't have before. Yeah, because somehow the rich people aren't. There's not like a lot of like rich people who are originally rich and like still living there.

Speaker 1:

I noticed yeah, that was sort of a strange thing.

Speaker 2:

I feel like we've really trashed talk this series so far. So I want to like take a break from that and just give it a little bit of love, because it's not a complete piece of trash. We did choose to watch the whole season and there are lots of things that we give up on, so and that we don't even tell. I mean, we've actually talked multiple times, which is an episode of like things that we started but stopped.

Speaker 1:

I kind of feel like we need to do our list in reverse, so that we do of the things that we like after the things that we hate.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. We just talked about things that we hate, though I feel like we should.

Speaker 1:

Well, we got more. We got more in our list.

Speaker 2:

I'm voting for a middle break of something we love.

Speaker 1:

Okay, stick in with it, all right. What did we love?

Speaker 2:

Well, it was technically the Walking Dead.

Speaker 1:

It was technically the Walking Dead.

Speaker 2:

And it wasn't as bad as Fear the Walking Dead or Season 11 of the Walking Dead. That's true. It is a vast improvement over Season 11 of the Walking Dead, although it was a, I will say the first season of the Walking, the Fear. The Walking Dead was better than the first season of Daryl Dixon.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

First season of.

Speaker 1:

Fear. The Walking Dead was actually pretty good, with a few like minor things that I have criticisms for. Season two, again, is pretty good. Season three also pretty good. Season four what the fuck, what the fuck? An English teacher gone mad because her husband dies and now if anybody mentions that they appreciate her helping, she's like I don't help, and then she's going around hunting truck drivers. So that she could put zombie blood in water bottles.

Speaker 2:

Dan, I love you. This is not the Fear the Walking Dead here. The Walking Dead episode. I'm just I know, I know you're so traumatized by it.

Speaker 1:

Have you talked to your therapist specifically about Fear the Walking Dead. This week I'm going to tell them all about the Fear the Walking Dead season four.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if they'll be like. Are you avoiding something else by telling me in detail why you hate Fear? The Walking Dead, season four?

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's the Walking Dead, season 11. It's almost as bad as Fear. The Walking Dead season four, and it's the flagship series. You know like they're supposed to care.

Speaker 2:

We can only hope that Darryl Dixon gets better instead of worse, because that was the trend. I have faith that it will get better, because this show is all about faith, Dan what's something that you loved about Darryl Dixon's show?

Speaker 1:

Oh, you know we mentioned this earlier, but this might explain why we have fast, nimble walkers in season 11.

Speaker 2:

Because they're experimenting on French, on France, and then like shipping them back across the United States.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I guess maybe Like why.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. It just sounds really stupid and I can't imagine a world where they give me a good answer to this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I mean, if the I mean maybe they're not shipping them, but maybe they are like, maybe they're also doing experiments in North America as well, like you know they have. They have access to cargo ships. They might be going all over the place and maybe the idea is like, like this is my hopeful idea is that they're like what if we made zombies that were so fucking crazy that they tried to kill all the other zombies Because there were? There was a time in the big zombie fight where one of the crazed, lunatic zombies attacks another crazed lunatic zombie.

Speaker 2:

That was fun. Yeah, that was a fun, but that whole fight scene in the pit has been so overdone. Yeah, basically it's like the Colosseum, but in a pit, as a way of punishing Daryl, and then, of course, a range of loving Daryl. It's just because he beats the zombies.

Speaker 1:

Do I?

Speaker 2:

entertain you. Let's talk about something else. See, we can't even, we can't even get to our list of things we loved. Without complaining, I will say I appreciated Quinn's redemption story, so Quinn actually didn't remember their name till I read this bullet point. Quinn is the man that was the boyfriend of Isabel before the world fell apart. He's also the guy who runs his underground nightclub.

Speaker 1:

And then turns into a bad guy.

Speaker 2:

He's a bad guy and he's like and Laurent's dad. Yeah, we'll find out later because apparently he was sleeping with Isabel's sister who gave birth to Laurent. It's some Jerry Springer shit. I feel like Jerry Springer is starting to become like an old reference. But anyways.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, who knows who Jerry Springer is, elder Millennials.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So Quinn is like really a piece of shit. He basically convinces Isabel to stay in exchange for letting Laurent leave, to go to this like but trying to get him to this sacred safe spot in northern France off the coast of Normandy, and he's like trying to get her to fall in love with him again. It's really creepy and you can tell she's thinking about either like killing him or like succumbing to this situation. Anyways, there's a moment where I won't spoil it but he has a choice between his own life and Isabel's and he's with another character and he says to that character, like he's with Daryl.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

He's like will you spoiler alert if you don't want to know anything about this or about the ones who live, because I'm about to make a parallel skip forward to approximately three minutes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

From now, but anyways he does it, daryl?

Speaker 1:

He does something that is similar to something that happens.

Speaker 2:

That's all we're going to say. I don't like not being able to spoil these shows. Yeah, how can you talk about a show without spoiling it?

Speaker 1:

It's hard, but we're doing it.

Speaker 2:

But isn't it just a bunch of like nothing?

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay, you know what you know. What I have to say about all of that is that I don't think it was totally necessary for Quinn to sacrifice himself.

Speaker 2:

But he did sacrifice himself, which indicates other love and obsession, and he sacrificed a part of himself. That is similar to what Rick sacrifices to try and get back to Michonne. That's all I'm going to say. And that's the parallel that I think is really interesting, because he does seem to have like a strange redemption in this moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I liked it.

Speaker 2:

I liked the parallel between the two stories.

Speaker 1:

Also I like that. You know, when Daryl tells Isabel, she's like did he tell you to tell me that? And then Daryl does just kind of like shrugs, like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

But he's also dead. So, like you know, another thing that I really loved was seeing the American cemetery in Normandy, like all old and overgrown, because when Daryl finally arrives there, because I guess we should be clear that he's trying to get back to the United States this whole time. I think, that's not a spoiler. You'll know that from the first two minutes of the show.

Speaker 1:

He washes up on the shore and then he's like I need to get back on a boat, so he goes inland.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's people that are counting on me, and he's like why?

Speaker 1:

can't I find a boat in the middle of the French countryside? You'd? Think that he would have checked out the shorelines a little bit more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well he got. He wanted to end up helping the guns, which ended up getting them all killed. Yeah, I guess that's a spoiler, but the cemetery in Normandy both the American one and the German one are actually are like really powerful places. And I appreciated this nod back to World War Two, because I think that World War Two still impacts who we are today. And they drew a direct parallel between Daryl and his grandfather, who served in the military in World War Two and ended up dying in Normandy. And so this is the thing that's unrealistic and annoyed me was that he found his grandfather's grave which I gotta explain If you've never been to the American like soldier cemetery in Normandy. It is as far as the eye can see. It is extremely emotional and overwhelming to be there because you realize how many people died for so little and things that could have been avoided if we hadn't fascism. So tale of let's not let that happen to this country right there. But somehow he magically finds his grandfather's grave.

Speaker 1:

Well, he's Daryl Dixon. He's good at hunting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he just. They all look exactly the same though, all of the graves, they all.

Speaker 2:

They're just white crosses, so I don't get it, but anyways it is like amazing moment of character development where you see and like, learn about Daryl's upbringing and that his dad grew up without a dad because his dad grandfather was killed in Normandy and thus the cycle of like, trauma and abuse begins. Because his dad didn't have any support, he had no money growing up and he became a shithead and then he treated Daryl and his brother like shit. So I did appreciate that. It also felt very sobering and like the kind of thing that I would want to see in a French, french version of the apocalypse. Yeah, I think all of the things that are left on the love it list are mine, which I think shows you slightly more positive review. I guess I'll just end it briefly in terms of our love list before we get into things that we hated. This place called the nest, which is why they're trying to get Laurent to, seems really interesting. It seems like almost like a paradise, honestly, and like a genuinely good place with good people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Makes me wonder why Laurent wasn't there the entire time.

Speaker 2:

Because he was stuck at the. I mean, I guess maybe he wasn't old enough to travel yet. They just had him growing up with a nunnery. I don't know, there's a lot of unanswered questions in this show, but there were interesting characters at the nest and there was the person who helped them get to the nest, aslan, which, if you've heard and remember the line in which the wardrobe Aslan, is the lion which is also basically God, the benevolent creator or character.

Speaker 1:

Also Aslan means lion.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know that that's cool, but he has an interesting backstory, I think, and I was really sad, but he was the first person that wasn't a main character that I was like oh, I'm kind of sad you died Like I would have liked to have you around. You seem interesting.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But he's dead. Yeah, so hopeful for more, hopeful for more nest stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we already ranted about all the things that we don't like Right off the top. I get, like I don't remember, just cutting and pasting all of the things that we didn't like. So this meant that, like, we wrote all of the things before and then I made a separate list recalling everything that I didn't like, exactly Word for word.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you did. You did write this episode show notes like two weeks ago, so that's what happens when we write early and then record later. Yeah, we're humans with lives. It happens. But you know my favorite segment is coming. Oh, you want to share what it is?

Speaker 1:

Are you talking about the racist, sexist, capitalist, colonial, ableist misogyny of the living dead?

Speaker 2:

I am. I love it.

Speaker 1:

You know, I heard that the Bechtel test is a joke.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know what this show is? A joke, because it barely passed the Bechtel test.

Speaker 1:

It really did.

Speaker 2:

Do I still have to explain? The Bechtel test is at this point.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

It's. It evaluates the representation of women in fiction. It requires a work to have at least two people in it that are women who talk to each other with something other than a dude. That's the basement floor of feminism. Yeah, this one barely passes, and Dan and I had to like rack our brains to find where it did for an entire. This is not a movie, this is a how many like at least eight episodes eight episodes.

Speaker 1:

An eight episode arc.

Speaker 2:

The only time that we could think about it was when Isabelle and another nun sister talked about their survival. But they're kind of talking about a man most of the time with each other, so it's like barely there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's, it just barely passes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I would say like, speaking of shallow character growth, I think the show is just kind of like Daryl Dixon porn and the female characters like orbit around Daryl for the most part and they really don't have anything interesting about them, including the like antagonist evil woman. Like she's not interesting.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's the danger of having a spin off that's based around just one character. Yeah, is that? We can only just follow Daryl? It's not like the Walking Dead, where it's like, oh, rick and Mishona are going to this carnival to go see if they can find guns from a National Guard post that was there, while at the same time Eugene is working on a radio and he gets into a fight with Abraham and Glenn has his quirky thing going on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just way too centered around one person. And then, like, speaking of feminism, when I learned that the next season appears to center Carol's story and it's called Daryl Dixon colon, the Book of Carol, I fucking almost threw something at the TV because I was just like, really Like, why didn't they just name this Carol and Daryl? Is this the Carol and Daryl show? Like I want to watch it. I fucking love Carol and Daryl, but the fact that it has to be Daryl Dixon and Carol is some sort of fucking subplot.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like people wouldn't tune into the Carol show.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would be the first to tune into the Carol show. Give me more Carol, carol's fucking amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, carol is a fan favorite.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just so, I just think. For a TV show that I think is one of the better ones representation and addressing real issues through the zombie apocalypse I just feel like this is such a fucking miss. And the fact that all of the female characters just centered around like dudes, including Carol, including Carol yeah, I'm insulted.

Speaker 1:

She gets the tagline.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the Book of Carol. What the fuck is this?

Speaker 1:

Is this like a play on the Book of Eli?

Speaker 2:

I don't know, but it's a whole weird. There's like a weird religious arc that's going on in this show and like is Daryl the cup? Is Daryl Jesus.

Speaker 1:

I think Daryl is. Is it Laurent or Daryl? Yeah, you know, I'd be willing to believe that Daryl is Jesus.

Speaker 2:

I don't think his mom was a virgin.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know there is a. There's a song I forget the name of the guy, he's like a musical comedian and it was called the like the brother of Jesus or something, and it was about. It was about Craig Christ and how he couldn't turn water into wine but he could turn it into to cool Miller light and I feel like that's Daryl. Daryl is Craig Christ.

Speaker 2:

Daryl would turn into Miller light.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

But there is some things weird there and I just don't like. I don't like I I just don't believe that women made that decision. I'll definitely say that, Like I'm kind of curious to see the writers room for Daryl's Dickson show you and me both. We should look it up.

Speaker 1:

I like to right now. I'd like to find their their writing staff of like nine high school students and one guy that worked for Fear of the Walking Dead.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so I'm looking at the writers. Hold on Walking dead, daryl Dixon. Writers revealed. Let's see what we've got here.

Speaker 1:

They're revealing the writers.

Speaker 2:

They revealed the writers I'm scrolling through. I don't know who Zabel is. Okay, they're only last names. This isn't going to help me. I need to see people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what's their address?

Speaker 2:

Why you want to dox them for this terrible show.

Speaker 1:

Actually, I don't, I don't, I don't think that we need to do that.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let me find the writers here.

Speaker 1:

I feel like the legacy of this show is punishment enough.

Speaker 2:

It's true, I can't wait. So every episode has different writers. It's also very obvious to me that's the case. Okay, first episode written by a dude, david Zabel Zabel Second road. Second episode written by Jason Richmond and David Zabel. You know, those two are kind of shitty. Y'all suck. Third episode written by Colleen. This is where there's the nightclub and a reunion with Quinn.

Speaker 1:

I think that one also had the backstory, maybe.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that was a better one. Episode four, written by Shannon Goss Shannon is a gender neutral name, so who knows? Fifth episode is Jason Richmond, david Zabel, again Then the eight, six, only six episodes is six episodes Jason Richmond, laura Snow. So out of here there's mostly written by men. There's appears to be one episode that maybe was written by one to Colleen and Shannon, but the rest are men, not suppressed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm not surprised either.

Speaker 2:

No, annoying. I don't wonder my old friend who I stopped being friends with for saying things like this to me. They said that I hate men. I don't hate men, I'm just very frustrated by the bias and I think that, like when when I'm said told things like oh, you hate men, or like you're so angry, that's tone policing and I really am annoyed by that because I'm pointing out very valid fucking things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like how women can't talk to each other other than about Daryl. Yeah, yeah, that's. This is the kind of writing we get when it's just a bunch of dudes that are just like how big of the boobs should the girl have in the show.

Speaker 2:

It's ridiculous, ridiculous.

Speaker 1:

Can we have a character whose only purpose is to be eye candy in the nightclub? We don't give her any other backstory other than that she's a jealous woman.

Speaker 2:

Yep, that is actually a character in the show.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it is. Yeah, let's go on to the race test.

Speaker 2:

The race test is inspired by the Bechtel test and named after filmmaker Ava DuVernay. The race test focuses on the representation and depth of characters of color, and it work passes if it features fully realized characters of color who have their own narrative arc. That is not solely about pushing a white character's story forward.

Speaker 1:

Oh boy.

Speaker 2:

Dan, do you think it passed After doing that last part? It's a big fucking fail.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, big fail. I mean to be fair. The show is called Daryl Dixon. But yeah, there is. There is nothing that anyone in the show does. It's not pushing Daryl forward.

Speaker 2:

No, and all the main characters are white.

Speaker 2:

Yeah there is a racial and religious diversity, but it is feels kind of like set dressing a lot of the time and very few people. So, as Lynn we mentioned earlier is Muslim, maybe there'll be more meaningful characters of color. Because Lo Sang is the leader of the Union of Hope and he's Asian. I'm not sure from which ethnic group he's from America, oh, that's right, he's Asian American, but obviously he still has an ethnic group that I'm sure he associates with. And then there's a black young woman who's a nun and a black man who helps save Daryl from the drug zombies in the pit, but like it kind of like shows up to basically just help do stuff, but he has very few lines.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have a really like this this. This made me mad. This is something that makes me mad all the time when they need a plot device to save the day because they can't write their way out of the thing that they wrote themselves into.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So this guy nameless because we don't know his name. He might have introduced himself at one point, but it's not important because he's not an important character. He doesn't show up very often, so he is in the crowd of people at the pseudo Colosseum while Daryl and his best friend are fighting drug zombies and all of the bad guys are sitting on their emperor's thrones on the other side.

Speaker 2:

So ridiculous.

Speaker 1:

Now to cause chaos so that Daryl can get away, this guy pulls out an MP5. Don't know what that is A submachine gun.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

That has an incredibly high rate of fire and a magazine capacity of 30 rounds. Okay, Fires one shot. Hmm, Just like you know he's. He's trying to look very restrained French decision yeah. He fires one shot. It hits a guard and everybody scrambles. They're like oh no somebody fired a shot and they all run away, and that's how Daryl gets out. Spoiler alert. This show could have been ended in that moment If they, if this person, just laid down on the trigger and just sprayed everybody in the emperor's throne.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they'd all be dead. But you can't do that because they have to stay alive to fight another day.

Speaker 1:

Oh, and also there are other shootouts where literally there's five or six people hiding behind trash cans and couches in the underground dance club and they're firing hundreds of shots at each other and nobody hits a thing. They're like 40 meters away from each other.

Speaker 2:

And press with you for saying meters.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, you know when I'm shooting, it's meters.

Speaker 2:

Interesting, interesting, yeah. And then there's the Vito Russo test, which is named after film historian and LGBT activist, vito Russo, and it assesses the representation of LGBTQ plus characters in media. How do you think it did on that one, dan?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I mean, there were so many Really, yeah, like who Let me? Let me count all of the LGBTQ plus representation. There was one drag queen singer.

Speaker 2:

That's right. Did they have their own story?

Speaker 1:

No, or they also didn't have a name.

Speaker 2:

Were they defined beyond their gender identity.

Speaker 1:

No Other than like somebody who was like a singer. They were a singer. Their whole thing was like I'm a singer for this drag queen singer, yeah, which is supposed to like indicate seediness.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I almost felt like I didn't like it. It was weird.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there was like a little bit of like what do you call it? What are those places called? I don't remember. It starts with a, b, it starts with a, b, yeah, let's move on.

Speaker 2:

I don't know what it's called I would love it if somebody wrote it until this was what the fuck Dan's talking about. Well, last but not least, the fries test, the most recent one which is representation of people with disabilities, so you have to have one characters with disabilities portrayed as complex individuals beyond their disabilities and two narratives that are not solely about overcoming disability and three, ideally, actors with disabilities playing these roles to ensure authentic representation. Pass or fail.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm going to have to say fail. Yep, I don't think there was a single disability.

Speaker 2:

Yep, this is such a like a I just feel like you said this to me earlier today where, like, this show had so much potential but it's like they just fucking threw out the Walking Dead playbook, yeah, and and rewrote it and rewrote it and just for like nope, we want acidic zombies and we're going to like do window dressing representation, but not actually any meaningful characters other than the white ones like at all, so a little annoying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah it's. I mean, the thing is that it was, it was still okay. It was an okay show. I say, if you're a big, if you're a Walking Dead fan, like watch it. Yeah you know. But like don't have any expectations. Like I hope that the next season is better, but I don't have any. I don't feel like that's going to happen.

Speaker 2:

I think this is the one where you should tell the Walking Dead to call you and help you be like you should be a writer.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's the next part.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Could you do this better Dan?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, the. Could you do a better question, as usually in reference to like a thing that happens, but I think I could do the whole show better. So if the Walking Dead just wants to call me, I will fix all of your series.

Speaker 2:

I feel like they need to have like a Walking Dead superfan, not a fear of the Walking Dead, a Walking Dead superfan in the room being like no.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, honestly, they really need to have me on retainer, because I would stand on the set of all of these shows and just be like, no, don't, no no, I was waving my finger at them like no stop and the actor's defense.

Speaker 2:

They don't always know what it's gonna look like at the end, but I still feel like Norman Reedus knew that leaving the gun there was a bad idea. Which brings me to survival tips. Here's my survival tip that I learned Not from you, norman Reedus. I'm mad at you for your choices to just go along with this shit. Don't leave a gun available to the person that you have captive and think is evil.

Speaker 1:

That's it, unless you're leaving it there to test them and you've already unloaded it.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

And then you have a gotcha moment.

Speaker 2:

That's way too smart.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But I'm just saying, you know, don't. Oh, how about this? This is even more basic Don't leave weapons unattended.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like rule number one for firearm safety.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like this is not even. This is very basic. What's your survival tip, Dan?

Speaker 1:

Oh God, I mean this is. I already said this back at the beginning, but if there's a wall of firearms to choose from and it includes a Thompson submachine gun, don't pick the breech-loaded single-shot rifle from 1878.

Speaker 2:

Hey, that is Isn't. Oh no, it's 1778. No 1787 is when the Constitution was written.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry yeah, because you passed your citizenship test. I did. What did Benjamin Franklin do?

Speaker 2:

He was a US diplomat. He also was the US Postal Service guy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he was the first head post-postmaster. Postmaster, postmaster general.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, give me another question Dan. Oh, it must be more interesting than Daryl Dixon.

Speaker 1:

Who was the enemy of the United States after World War II?

Speaker 2:

After World War II yeah, russia and China.

Speaker 1:

Close Communism.

Speaker 2:

Well, you said who, not what.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know what I meant.

Speaker 2:

Hey Dan, have you ever been a member of a Communist Party?

Speaker 1:

No, but it sounds super fun.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever committed genocide?

Speaker 1:

Only one time.

Speaker 2:

With tax dollars maybe.

Speaker 1:

I don't pay taxes.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever consumed a drug that's illegal, even if you'd never been caught?

Speaker 1:

Oh no, they've all been legal.

Speaker 2:

Do you think that you would be allowed to be a citizen?

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

If you were like.

Speaker 1:

I am a dangerous person.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, also, I don't plan to conduct espionage. That was actually a permanent residency question, not a citizenship. Well, that was the best permanent residence question was do you plan to conduct espionage while living in the United States? I felt like it was like a mental health check, Because you I've conducted espionage. So yeah, I feel like you would definitely fail this, although you work for the US government, so you probably okay.

Speaker 1:

They need to specify.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but anyhow, how many Zeds would you give this to?

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, I'm being very generous when I say 6 out of 10.

Speaker 2:

And is it 6 out of 10 just because Daryl's in it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You and I agree on this one. I am also giving it a 6 out of 10 because honestly it's like an aspirational 6 out of 10 because it did get more interesting towards the end.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm hoping that it gets better in the next season.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think there's room for it to get better. I really hope it does. And the Walking Dead you need to fucking call me before season 2 comes out because, honestly, if you just show me the dailies, just send me the raw footage and I will look at it and tell you if it's fucked or not.

Speaker 2:

I don't think they would care. That's the thing is that you know what the Walking Dead franchise other than the ones who live, which I'm stoked about. To be clear, so far, we haven't watched episode 4 yet, three episodes in as of right now, loving it. I feel like the Walking Dead franchise is very similar to the Blue Jays in Canada and the Maple Leafs, which is like we won a couple times. Well, the Maple Leafs have been one since the 60s, I believe. These are the Leafs. It's a hockey team, for anybody who doesn't know, and they don't give a shit about making the team better because they know that they will always fill every fucking seat.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Every fucking game.

Speaker 1:

It's hockey in Canada.

Speaker 2:

It's hockey in Canada, in Toronto. It doesn't need to be good. I feel fearful. I fear the Walking Dead is going to turn into the Maple Leafs. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know I mean at that point they're probably filling seats because they want the hopefuls to show up to be like you. Better beat the New York Rangers this time. And they don't.

Speaker 2:

Rarely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So like they're showing up just to be like I know you're going to lose, but I want to be here when you win.

Speaker 2:

I will be honest. I haven't been following hockey since I moved to the United States, so I think I would know if they want to stand like up. I think somebody that I love in Canada would have let me know. Your brother would not Absolutely would let me know, but I would say that like being a Maple Leafs fan is like being in an abusive relationship, and I am concerned that the Walking Dead franchise also being abusive a little bit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but.

Speaker 2:

I think my commitment for Daryl Dixon is like if it's not, if I don't enjoy the show two episodes in, I'm not going to keep watching it. That's my litmus test at this point. I gave it six, six episodes. It gets two more for me before I give up.

Speaker 1:

Important question Leah.

Speaker 2:

Yes Dan.

Speaker 1:

Will you watch the book of Carol?

Speaker 2:

Of course I'm going to watch the book of Carol.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, whenever we talk about season two, I always forget that it's supposed to.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a good point.

Speaker 1:

It's supposed to be with Carol, but is that another spin off? Is this a? Is the book of Carol a spin off of Daryl?

Speaker 2:

Dixon, because Carol's entire existence is about finding Daryl.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it already fails the Bexel test.

Speaker 2:

Granted, they have a special relationship but like and I know Daryl wants to get back to her, but I don't know, I guess yeah, I also forgot that I was going to be about Carol when I said that. So I feel, but see, that feels abusive. They're stringing me along with hope. If Carol fucking leaves a gun somewhere that easily is accessed by an enemy, that's it for me. I'm done.

Speaker 1:

That's my line.

Speaker 2:

That's my boundary.

Speaker 1:

Do you think, do you think they'll just write Carol as like a John Wick character? We're like she throws, she throws away the, the, the whole, like using her mousy housewifeness as cover and like, all of a sudden she's just like dual wielding, sawed off shotguns and having one liners and like doing karate kicks.

Speaker 2:

If they do that, I'm going to stop watching it too. Here's what I wish for in the book of Carol. I wish for a genuine love interest for Carol.

Speaker 1:

Who's not Darrell?

Speaker 2:

Not Darrell. Yeah, I wish for her to remain complex and somewhat unpredictable, and I wish for moments where she has to make difficult decisions, because that's the thing that. Or Carol I almost said Darrell, that Carol does really well and is most interested.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Carol's character is like the only one that like really really has a hard time processing the guilt of the decisions that she's had to make. Some pretty intense decisions yeah, so I mean Rick at this point, has killed hundreds of people, but Carol's like got a list and she's like at 19 and she's like I gotta, I gotta go.

Speaker 2:

I think it's who Carol's had to kill specifically. That is like traumatic. So I think there's hope for Carol. I really am upset by the name.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean we got a. We got a long way to go, so maybe they'll change it. I mean like this they're already advertising it. They're not going to change like the same amount of time last year ago. They were saying that the ones who live was supposed to be a movie.

Speaker 2:

Really.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was supposed to come out as a feature length film.

Speaker 2:

Damn.

Speaker 1:

And that was the plan for for years. They're like we're going to wrap up the Walking Dead series with a movie about Rick.

Speaker 2:

The ones who live, gets a 10 out of 10 for me for attention span.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's. I don't think I've ever said that.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

That's really good. The attention span for Darrell Dixon is high.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, but to be fair, you don't really need to pay attention to it. True, I'm pretty sure there were a couple episodes that I was totally high for and I didn't miss a thing.

Speaker 2:

Yep, but you know what, if you want to watch it, go ahead. Let us know if you've watched it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I want to know what you think about it. Right, let us know how you feel.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just a long-term relationship we're in and it's like not sure we want to get out of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean like we've already invested so much time.

Speaker 2:

Years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Decades, more than a decade, you know, if the Walking Dead didn't exist and this was just something that just came out like would we watch it? I guess we would Like it, probably be. It probably still be the best zombie show.

Speaker 2:

It would probably be interesting, and I think that that's part of the problem is that it's a show that the expectations are really high, but they're clearly meeting it. Again, they're meeting the expectations with the ones who live. Yeah, so far.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Except for they killed somebody too early that I wanted to stick around longer.

Speaker 1:

That's true.

Speaker 2:

But they made me care about them before they died at least.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean all of these spinoffs they have like a lot faster pacing, yeah, and they're just like. They're just blowing through things that like would normally like they're. I think they think that they're hitting all the emotional high points, but a lot of times they're just like who the fuck was that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And in Daryl Dixon there was a character, a black female character, who doesn't even have a name. Yeah, she's the nun. She comes along, she doesn't even have a name. And then at some point she's like oh, I met a boy in Paris and I'm going to stay in Paris.

Speaker 2:

I think she probably has a name at some point.

Speaker 1:

And it's very shallow, very shallow history with her and so like they move, they go on without her and she stays with, with their new boyfriend, and then she shows up later and like helps them get out of a jam. And then she's like, all right, I'm with you guys again now and it's like who are you?

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, dan, do you know why they had her go off with her own like plot line so they could pass the Bechtel test? Or the Bechtel test? Sorry, they could pass the race test because she did something that wasn't directly related. See, this is one of those examples where they like went by the letter of the law, which is like a character does something. Yeah, it's a black woman.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't give them that much credit.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I like I know that I'm working in advocacy stuff and I'm seeing how the government manages to like tick a box but like it's like in the faintest ink and they really didn't actually do anything meaningful. Yeah. And maybe I'm being too critical now. Well, we did it.

Speaker 1:

We watched Darryl Dixon. We got through it.

Speaker 2:

We are paying for AMC, yeah. Which, honestly, kevin can fuck himself has made that worth it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, good show. Check out. Kevin can fuck himself.

Speaker 2:

Is it done? Yeah, yeah, check out, kevin can fuck himself, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And the ones who live. That's good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Thankfully, at least one is good. We don't know about.

Speaker 1:

Dead City, yet we haven't watched it.

Speaker 2:

Nope.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, maybe we should.

Speaker 2:

Who knows? But you know the one thing I am looking forward to, Dan.

Speaker 1:

I don't.

Speaker 2:

Episode 45.

Speaker 1:

Oh right, Is that? When we're going to talk to Laura Lori Calcuttaire about Path of the Pale Rider, it is indeed. A comic series that everybody should get from Path of the Pale Ridercom.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a wild Western apocalypse that pays homage Homage. Homage Homage To spaghetti westerns. You know, spaghetti western sounds delicious, sci-fi, zongy of these Mad Max, I am legend, book of Eli and Fallout Pretty great combo there.

Speaker 1:

You know, I'd add something in there too, and it's the first thing that I thought when I looked at it. Red Dead Redemption on Dead Nightmare.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm saying yeah, like I know anything about it. I think I've like watched somebody play it.

Speaker 1:

It's a video game.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but in the meantime call us with a burning question, a survival story, or you know you what I really want from y'all, you know.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you mean a Evil, magic, chicken, zombie Clock? Yes, you know what else they could call us for, what they could tell us how wrong we are about Daryl Dixon.

Speaker 2:

Everything. Yeah, I love, I love hearing your opinions. They are solicited, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Unlike my mother's. Tell us all about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm asking for your thoughts.

Speaker 1:

Unless you're Leo's mom.

Speaker 2:

Apocalypse, except for my mom, who I hope will never listen to this. You can call us at 614-699-0006. And you can also email us at xxxhclabpodcastscom. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Don't forget to subscribe right in review. It helps us spread like a virus, infecting new listeners through their ear holes. Your infections are horrible except when you're infected by this podcast, then it's great.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening everybody. Come follow us on Instagram at Threads yeah, thanks for listening everybody, You're great. Watch Darryl or don't? I don't not sure I care.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, watch it if you think you'll like it.

Speaker 2:

Yep, which you might, it's okay. Maybe sign the petition I'm about to make about changing the name of the book of Carol.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sign that petition.

Speaker 2:

Have a good night, day, good evening.

Speaker 1:

Goodbye, bye, goodbye, bye, baguette.

Speaker 2:

Got the bag. Show me your baguette. Yeah, name that artist, bye, no.

Zombie Book Club Discussion
Disappointment in New Walking Dead Spinoff
The Evolution of Zombie Lore
Critiquing the Walking Dead Franchise
Discussion on Walking Dead Season Four
Critiquing Representation in TV Shows
Representation and Critique of TV Shows
Discussion on the Book of Carol